From raiford  Thu Apr  1 08:42:45 1999
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Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 09:40:08 -0500
To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
From: Jon Raiford <raiford >
Subject: RE: Tempest Troubles - Please Help
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Well.. I replaced the 7815 and the 7915 a couple times and it didn't seem
to help things any.  I did notice that there is +25 on the input leg and 
not +22.. could that make a difference?  Also, I pulled the 7815's and
7915's off other boards.  Are these things all the same? Or are there
variations I should worry about?  And can I test them when I pull them
off to make sure they are good?  It's possible I killed them while
trying to desolder them, but they are made to get real hot, so I doubt
it (and the -15 worked fine after replacing them).  So where do I go
from here?

Thanks in advance,
Jon


At 09:27 AM 3/31/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Sounds like the voltage regulator is bad, or it's not getting the correct
>input voltage (this is where the DAC gets it's power from). Find the 7815 on
>your board and make sure it's getting +22 on the input leg. If it is, then
>replace it. Also check your -15 on the 7915 while your at it.
>
>-jeff

From Thomas43  Thu Apr  1 11:08:42 1999
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In a message dated 4/1/99 6:58:17 AM, raiford  writes:

<< Well.. I replaced the 7815 and the 7915 a couple times and it didn't seem
to help things any.  I did notice that there is +25 on the input leg and 
not +22.. could that make a difference?  Also, I pulled the 7815's and
7915's off other boards.  Are these things all the same? Or are there
variations I should worry about?  And can I test them when I pull them
off to make sure they are good?  It's possible I killed them while
trying to desolder them, but they are made to get real hot, so I doubt
it (and the -15 worked fine after replacing them).  So where do I go
from here?

Thanks in advance, >>

I had this same problem once.  On one of the test points the 15V had dropped
to 6V.  I checked all the components that ran from the 15 V regulator to the
next test point.  I got to one chip with a 6V reading.  I touched the chip
with my finger, and it was extra hot.  Replaced it and everything worked
great.  It was shorted and acting as a resistor.  Since I don't have a Tempest
board in front of me, I can't tell you exactly which component to look for,
but it's in the output section.  Hope that helps?

From a-dashoe  Thu Apr  1 14:18:53 1999
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From: "David Shoemaker (Comforce/RhoTech)" <a-dashoe >
To: "'Vectorlist'" <vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Anything use the TMS 9900?
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:02:36 -0800 
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I just got the 9010 pod for that processor.  Anyone know of any games that
use it?
 
David

From aek  Thu Apr  1 14:42:30 1999
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Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:43:20 -0800 (PST)
From: aek  (Al Kossow)
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Subject: Re:  Anything use the TMS 9900?
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"I just got the 9010 pod for that processor.  Anyone know of any games that
use it?
"

there are none that I know of that use the 64 pin version of the part.
Cosmic Guerilla, and Looping use the 40 pin version

and to tie it in to vector games, there are no vector games that I know
of that used 9900 series parts :-)

From sickgear  Thu Apr  1 14:47:31 1999
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To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
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Subject: Didn't someone need a 13" WG?
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Hi all,

Wasn't someone looking for a 13" WG a while back (for a Battlezone, I think)?  I'm going to be 
parting out a (sadly ruined) Asteroids Deluxe mini, and I'm looking for a new home for the monitor.

The monitor picture is nice... bright and clear.  There is minimal AD burn in. 

Also available are the marquee and transformer.  Everything else from this AD is spoken for.

Anyway, if you need it lemme know, and maybe we can work a deal...

Thanks,

Derek
sickgear 



From chris  Thu Apr  1 21:27:50 1999
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Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:27:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "Christopher X. Candreva" <chris >
To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Centipede Working -- Thanks !
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Chips came from BG Micro today, Centipede is working, and my wife is happily
playing in the basement. Thanks to all who gave input.

I would like to ask now though if anyone has tips of desoldering chips from
these old boards, for the next project.

My tools consist of a 15/30W pencil and desoldering braid.  I suckeverything
off the bottom, turn the board over, suck everything from the top. Repeat
both sides, and usually the chip pops right out. That is-- usually it does.
I can't seem to do these 80's Atari boards without destroying at least one
trace.

This one I only damamged one pin -- and damned if I could see it. After
soldering in the socket (and finding the board didn't work), pin by pin
check with a tester showed one as no connection. Reheating and dribbling
solder down the hole did no good, so I grudgingly resorted to a jumper wire.

I almost feel silly asking for soldering hints, as I've been doing this
since I was about 8, but I'm figuring part of the problem is the age of the
boards. Is there a trick to doing this (other than being more carefull ) ?

-Chris


==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris  -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/

From chris  Thu Apr  1 21:59:22 1999
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Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:59:12 -0500 (EST)
From: "Christopher X. Candreva" <chris >
To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: OK -- LAST Raster Question :-)
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Just looking at the Centipede schematics as I was cleaning up, and there is
a section for "Joystick Circuitry".

And no -- this isn't the trackball under a wrong name. The trackball has
it's own section.

Looks like it has circuits for 2 joystick inputs. Very interesting. Wonder
if this was an option, or if the board was reused from something else.

-Chris

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris  -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/

From zonn  Fri Apr  2 02:55:56 1999
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From: zonn  (Zonn)
To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Centipede Working -- Thanks !
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 08:55:55 GMT
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On Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:27:40 -0500 (EST), "Christopher X. Candreva"
<chris > wrote:

>My tools consist of a 15/30W pencil and desoldering braid.  I suckeverything
>off the bottom, turn the board over, suck everything from the top. Repeat
>both sides, and usually the chip pops right out. That is-- usually it does.
>I can't seem to do these 80's Atari boards without destroying at least one
>trace.
>
>This one I only damamged one pin -- and damned if I could see it. After
>soldering in the socket (and finding the board didn't work), pin by pin
>check with a tester showed one as no connection. Reheating and dribbling
>solder down the hole did no good, so I grudgingly resorted to a jumper wire.
>
>I almost feel silly asking for soldering hints, as I've been doing this
>since I was about 8, but I'm figuring part of the problem is the age of the
>boards. Is there a trick to doing this (other than being more carefull ) ?

Assuming you're more interested in keeping the board intact than you are in the
(supposedly) bad part being removed, then what I do is to take a pair of wire
cutters and cut each pin off the IC.  I make the cut flush against the side of
the IC, so after cutting all pins the IC falls out, and is completely useless
looking a lot like a caterpillar with every leg pulled off.  At this point it's
a piece of cake to remove each individual pin with zero damage to the board.
For easy to get parts (like TL081's and such) it's just not worth risking damage
to the board.  

If you're trying to save both the board and the IC, then what your doing is the
same thing I do, though I do throw a solder sucker into the mix.

I've heard of people using hot air guns, and even blow torches to remove IC's.
This seems most useful for mass removal of parts, where the parts take priority
over the board.  (I'd favor the hot air gun over the blow torch, especially a
hot air gun where you can control the temperature.)

-Zonn

From zonn  Fri Apr  2 02:59:26 1999
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From: zonn  (Zonn)
To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: OK -- LAST Raster Question :-)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 08:59:28 GMT
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On Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:59:12 -0500 (EST), "Christopher X. Candreva"
<chris > wrote:

>
>Just looking at the Centipede schematics as I was cleaning up, and there is
>a section for "Joystick Circuitry".
>
>And no -- this isn't the trackball under a wrong name. The trackball has
>it's own section.
>
>Looks like it has circuits for 2 joystick inputs. Very interesting. Wonder
>if this was an option, or if the board was reused from something else.

There's a Jamma looking cabinet converted to a Centipede at a nearby arcade
(Yellow Brick Road at UTC above the ice skating rink for those who live in or
near San Diego) that uses a joystick instead of a trackball -- at least it was
there about six months ago.

The game play really sucks!  Don't even think about it!  ;^)

-Zonn

From zonn  Fri Apr  2 03:11:48 1999
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From: zonn  (Zonn)
To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: OK -- LAST Raster Question :-)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 09:11:50 GMT
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On Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:59:12 -0500 (EST), "Christopher X. Candreva"
<chris > wrote:

>
>Just looking at the Centipede schematics as I was cleaning up, and there is
>a section for "Joystick Circuitry".
>
>And no -- this isn't the trackball under a wrong name. The trackball has
>it's own section.
>
>Looks like it has circuits for 2 joystick inputs. Very interesting. Wonder
>if this was an option, or if the board was reused from something else.

Oh yeah, for what it's worth, there is also a Joystick option in Tailgunner.
Sucks big time.

-Zonn

From Joel_Rosenzweig  Fri Apr  2 08:51:35 1999
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From: "Joel Rosenzweig" <Joel_Rosenzweig >
To: <vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Centipede Working -- Thanks !
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:50:32 -0500
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I have found that sometimes you actually need to ADD solder to the
connection first in order to get the solder to flow nicely.  Once I've added
solder, the braid is able to wick the solder out much easier.  I don't
normally need to do this, but it has helped on especially stubborn pads.  I
now use a desoldering station which makes the job much less of a painfully
slow task.  But I've pulled dozens of chips from the Atari boards using the
braid, so you'll be OK with this technique. (Those 2114's and 74245's fail
WAY too often from these boards as far as I'm concerned!)

The other thing to do, is to make sure that each of the legs of the IC are
really free before you try to pry the chip out of the board.  Using a needle
nose plier, wiggle each leg (from the solder side) to make sure it moves.
If it doesn't you'll know it's stuck and you'll only be damaging the trace
if you pull it.  It takes a little longer to remove a chip, but the
discipline might help save that precious trace.

Joel-


-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher X. Candreva <chris >
To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu <vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 10:42 PM
Subject: Centipede Working -- Thanks !


>
>Chips came from BG Micro today, Centipede is working, and my wife is
happily
>playing in the basement. Thanks to all who gave input.
>
>I would like to ask now though if anyone has tips of desoldering chips from
>these old boards, for the next project.
>
>My tools consist of a 15/30W pencil and desoldering braid.  I
suckeverything
>off the bottom, turn the board over, suck everything from the top. Repeat
>both sides, and usually the chip pops right out. That is-- usually it does.
>I can't seem to do these 80's Atari boards without destroying at least one
>trace.
>
>This one I only damamged one pin -- and damned if I could see it. After
>soldering in the socket (and finding the board didn't work), pin by pin
>check with a tester showed one as no connection. Reheating and dribbling
>solder down the hole did no good, so I grudgingly resorted to a jumper
wire.
>
>I almost feel silly asking for soldering hints, as I've been doing this
>since I was about 8, but I'm figuring part of the problem is the age of the
>boards. Is there a trick to doing this (other than being more carefull ) ?
>
>-Chris
>
>
>==========================================================
>Chris Candreva  -- chris  -- (914) 967-7816
>WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
>http://www.westnet.com/
>
>

From ray  Fri Apr  2 10:33:20 1999
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Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 08:27:32 -0800
From: Ray Ghanbari <ray >
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Zonn wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:59:12 -0500 (EST), "Christopher X. Candreva"
> <chris > wrote:
> 
> >
> >Just looking at the Centipede schematics as I was cleaning up, and there is
> >a section for "Joystick Circuitry".
> >
> >And no -- this isn't the trackball under a wrong name. The trackball has
> >it's own section.
> >
> >Looks like it has circuits for 2 joystick inputs. Very interesting. Wonder
> >if this was an option, or if the board was reused from something else.
> 
> There's a Jamma looking cabinet converted to a Centipede at a nearby arcade
> (Yellow Brick Road at UTC above the ice skating rink for those who live in or
> near San Diego) that uses a joystick instead of a trackball -- at least it was
> there about six months ago.
> 
> The game play really sucks!  Don't even think about it!  ;^)


Pretty ugly cabinet.  Just doesn't seem right to see centipede on a 25"
monitor.

To answer Chris' question, those inputs are "live" on centipede
(millepede has similar inputs).  Wire them up to a joystick and the
right things will happen (I have it wired up on my JAMMA adapter).  Of
course, if you're a centipede fan, the right thing will seem god awful
wrong ;-)

Ray

From ClayC  Fri Apr  2 11:12:01 1999
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From: Clay Cowgill <ClayC >
To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" <vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: RE: Centipede Working -- Thanks !
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:11:38 -0800 
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> My tools consist of a 15/30W pencil and desoldering braid.  I
> suckeverything
> off the bottom, turn the board over, suck everything from the top.
> Repeat
> both sides, and usually the chip pops right out. That is-- usually it
> does.
> I can't seem to do these 80's Atari boards without destroying at least
> one
> trace.
> 
Those older Atari boards are pretty tough.  Even with the snazzy rework
stations here at work I manage to lift a trace once in a while...

A few things can help:

As tempting as it may be to "turn it up", keep your soldering iron
temperature low.  Too much heat will de-laminate those old traces fast.
(Obviously a soldering station with a temperature control is very
helpful here.)

Even with a solder pump or desoldering station it's handy to use a
really fine desoldering braid after clearing the holes-- the thing that
usually gets me is a *little* dab of solder on the inside-top side of
the board.  You pry on the chip and up lifts that trace...  The Radio
Shack type solder-wick isn't really up to snuff for this-- you want a
fine mesh and thin braid.

Since the boards don't have solder-mask on them it's even easier than
usual to lift traces.  If you're really paranoid you can coat the traces
around the chip with a clear conformal coating (don't do the pads!) to
help prevent lifting...

-Clay

From a-dashoe  Fri Apr  2 13:04:49 1999
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From: "David Shoemaker (Comforce/RhoTech)" <a-dashoe >
To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'"
	 <vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: RE: OK -- LAST Raster Question :-)
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:04:15 -0800 
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> Oh yeah, for what it's worth, there is also a Joystick option 
> in Tailgunner.
> Sucks big time.

?????

Tailguner without a joystick?  I never saw one that didn't have a stick.
But then I only saw the cockpit version.

Now if I could just find one again, I would love to have one of these.

David

From zonn  Fri Apr  2 13:33:19 1999
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From: zonn  (Zonn)
To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: OK -- LAST Raster Question :-)
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 19:33:22 GMT
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On Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:04:15 -0800 , "David Shoemaker (Comforce/RhoTech)"
<a-dashoe > wrote:

>> Oh yeah, for what it's worth, there is also a Joystick option 
>> in Tailgunner.
>> Sucks big time.
>
>?????
>
>Tailguner without a joystick?  I never saw one that didn't have a stick.
>But then I only saw the cockpit version.
>
>Now if I could just find one again, I would love to have one of these.

Yeah, me too!

My original statement wasn't very clear, it was late.

What I meant to say was: Tailgunner also had a DIGITAL joystick option as
opposed to the analog joystick that was shipped with every game.

I don't think the option was ever used in manufacturing, but it is there.

Instead of moving the analog joystick directly over the on coming enemy ships,
you pressed the digital joystick in the direction of the oncoming ship and the
crosshair took it sweet time heading in one of the 8 directions available on a
digital joystick.  Much like StarHawk without the speed controls.  It really
sucks (I've only played with it using the emulator, there's an option in the
.INI file that allows you to use the numeric keypad as the digital joystick.  I
haven't actually hacked a Tailgunner.)

-Zonn

From rlboots@cedar-rapids.net Fri Apr  2 14:19:24 1999
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To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu,
        "Christopher X. Candreva" <chris >
Subject: Re: Centipede Working -- Thanks !
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The best way I've found is to snip the pins off the old
part as close to the IC as possible.  Then the pins can
be remove one at a time from the board.  THEN wick
off the solder, install a socket (machined contact type,
plating to match plating of the replacement chip (gold
for gold, tin for tin, don't mix!)), and get ready to play.

Solder should be 63/37 (Radio Shack sells it as "high-
tech" solder) to prevent cracked joints in the future,
UNLESS either surface you're soldering to has a gold
plating.  In that case you need a 2% silver content in the
solder or the gold will eventually leech the lead out of the
solder and cause the joint to get intermittent.


"Christopher X. Candreva" wrote:

> Chips came from BG Micro today, Centipede is working, and my wife is happily
> playing in the basement. Thanks to all who gave input.
>
> I would like to ask now though if anyone has tips of desoldering chips from
> these old boards, for the next project.
>
> My tools consist of a 15/30W pencil and desoldering braid.  I suckeverything
> off the bottom, turn the board over, suck everything from the top. Repeat
> both sides, and usually the chip pops right out. That is-- usually it does.
> I can't seem to do these 80's Atari boards without destroying at least one
> trace.
>
> This one I only damamged one pin -- and damned if I could see it. After
> soldering in the socket (and finding the board didn't work), pin by pin
> check with a tester showed one as no connection. Reheating and dribbling
> solder down the hole did no good, so I grudgingly resorted to a jumper wire.
>
> I almost feel silly asking for soldering hints, as I've been doing this
> since I was about 8, but I'm figuring part of the problem is the age of the
> boards. Is there a trick to doing this (other than being more carefull ) ?
>
> -Chris
>
> ==========================================================
> Chris Candreva  -- chris  -- (914) 967-7816
> WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
> http://www.westnet.com/

From a-dashoe  Fri Apr  2 14:21:44 1999
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From: "David Shoemaker (Comforce/RhoTech)" <a-dashoe >
To: "'Vectorlist'" <vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Dedicated Major Havoc rollers
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:21:40 -0800 
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I have a machine shop giving me a quote on some new rollers for the
dedicated Major Havoc controller.  Price is probably going to be around
$7.50 a pair.  But of course economy of scale, I am trying to judge
interest.
 
If you would like a set (or 5) let me know, no obligation yet.
 
NOTE: this is just the two metal rollers that the roller rides on nothing
else.
 
David

From raiford  Fri Apr  2 16:56:51 1999
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Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 17:54:17 -0500
To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
From: Jon Raiford <raiford >
Subject: Re: Dedicated Major Havoc rollers
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I'm in for 2 sets :)

Jon

At 12:21 PM 4/2/99 -0800, you wrote:
>I have a machine shop giving me a quote on some new rollers for the
>dedicated Major Havoc controller.  Price is probably going to be around
>$7.50 a pair.  But of course economy of scale, I am trying to judge
>interest.
> 
>If you would like a set (or 5) let me know, no obligation yet.
> 
>NOTE: this is just the two metal rollers that the roller rides on nothing
>else.
> 
>David
>
>

From jbovee@voyager.net Sat Apr  3 15:09:55 1999
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From: "Jeff Bovee" <jbovee@voyager.net>
To: "Vectorlist" <vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Pole Position 2 Help
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 16:08:26 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE7DEC.352F51C0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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If any of you can help me out, I'm looking for the EPROM at location 4K =
on the CPU board P/N 137351-001 If you have an extra or the image you =
can send me I may be able to find someone around that can burn it (I =
really need to break down and buy a EPROM Burner).  Thanks in advance =
for your help!

Sincerely,
Jeff Bovee

BTW For those of you who were following my ongoing saga with my =
Asteroids game, I was never able to get my Rev 6 board up and working =
despite some great help from many members of this list.  Luckily I met =
up with a guy who sold me a working board for a mere $20.  Although my =
attempt at repair on this board ended poorly, anyone who would like my =
research notes is welcome to them.  I had planned to put them up on a =
web page, but I haven't and it's not fair to keep them to myself.  Let =
me know if you want me to e-mail you a copy of what I was able to find =
out. Thanks again to everyone who contributed to me.

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE7DEC.352F51C0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>If any of you can help me out, I'm =
looking for=20
the EPROM at location 4K on the CPU board P/N 137351-001 If you have an =
extra or=20
the image you can send me I may be able to find someone around that can =
burn it=20
(I really need to break down and buy a EPROM Burner).&nbsp; Thanks in =
advance=20
for your help!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Sincerely,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Jeff Bovee</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>BTW For those of you who were =
following my=20
ongoing saga with my Asteroids game, I was never able to get my Rev 6 =
board up=20
and working despite some great help from many members of this =
list.&nbsp;=20
Luckily I met up with a guy who sold me a working board for a mere =
$20.&nbsp;=20
Although my attempt at repair on this board ended poorly, anyone who =
would like=20
my research notes is welcome to them.&nbsp; I had planned to put them up =
on a=20
web page, but I haven't and it's not fair to keep them to myself.&nbsp; =
Let me=20
know if you want me to e-mail you a copy of what I was able to find out. =
Thanks=20
again to everyone who contributed to me.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE7DEC.352F51C0--

From kmahan  Sat Apr  3 19:13:31 1999
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Subject: Re: Dedicated Major Havoc rollers
To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 18:13:28 -0700 (MST)
In-Reply-To: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D0DE01FAC@RED-MSG-59> from "David Shoemaker" at Apr 2, 99 12:21:40 pm
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Pardon the public post, but I haven't heard from david after repeated
emails, so maybe something's wrong.  

> I have a machine shop giving me a quote on some new rollers for the
> dedicated Major Havoc controller.  Price is probably going to be around
> $7.50 a pair.  But of course economy of scale, I am trying to judge
> interest.
>  
> If you would like a set (or 5) let me know, no obligation yet.

I'd be interested in two sets.

Kurt


From jenison  Mon Apr  5 14:06:24 1999
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Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:59:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mark Jenison <jenison >
Message-Id: <199904051859.NAA09141 >
In-Reply-To: "Mark Jenison" <jenison@crecendo>
        "Re: MM2114N RAM Replacement" (Mar 29, 10:28am)
References: <199903291621.KAA08228 > 
	<9903291028.ZM8915@crecendo>
X-face: oR?Ne3)HMw-8KhQ[.WK_f(>#V%Uoh6<<yW+05hoJkcu5X82g7}<[oGx:([cHBeW*gG'B@Bm_#66,*{e-H/0G[l]?F1&5Hp>uZW2%T[G$FZ[$](cd:7rBD)F36`*Ea#ym.|Kw5k;\Zx*CkhL=Tg^mSN:b_D!UEf7C"&f\x7Xxt!#UmwVu|hX6brc8QWO;6+pNL
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Hi all,

I'm working on a new section for my web page about odd artwork differences made
for machines during a production run (for example, normal Q*bert marquee vs
swearing marquee).  If you know any additional information, like why the change
was made and which version is more common, that would be appreciated as well.

For vectors, I only have listed the white vs gold text version of Asteroids
backglass instructions.

Does someone know anything Star Wars marquee differences?  I recall some
mention about one version has the grid lines a darker blue than the other (I
have both versions).

Any other vector ones you can think of?  (If you can think of some raster ones,
you may want to e-mail me directly to keep the posts on-topic :-)).

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Jenison                       E-mail address: jenison 
Cellular Infrastructure Group      Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From Burbs1@concentric.net Mon Apr  5 14:13:59 1999
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		<9903291028.ZM8915 >
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How about why my 2 Wizard of Wor's have 2 different style, dedicated cases? One
with the hinge down cover in the front and the other with a HUGE opening for a coin
box. and no cover (you gota see them!)

-=Mark=
http://www.basementarcade.com/


Mark Jenison wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm working on a new section for my web page about odd artwork differences made
> for machines during a production run (for example, normal Q*bert marquee vs
> swearing marquee).  If you know any additional information, like why the change
> was made and which version is more common, that would be appreciated as well.
>
> For vectors, I only have listed the white vs gold text version of Asteroids
> backglass instructions.
>
> Does someone know anything Star Wars marquee differences?  I recall some
> mention about one version has the grid lines a darker blue than the other (I
> have both versions).
>
> Any other vector ones you can think of?  (If you can think of some raster ones,
> you may want to e-mail me directly to keep the posts on-topic :-)).
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mark Jenison                       E-mail address: jenison 
> Cellular Infrastructure Group      Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------



From miranda  Mon Apr  5 14:26:09 1999
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From: "Miranda K. Collins" <miranda >
To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Survey: vector artwork differences
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I have seen a very strange BattleZone marquee once.  I can't remember any
details about it though.  There are also two Asteroids Deluxe marquees,
one is very colorful (the normal one) and the other has only 3 or so flat
shades. 

Miranda

On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, Mark Jenison wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I'm working on a new section for my web page about odd artwork differences made
> for machines during a production run (for example, normal Q*bert marquee vs
> swearing marquee).  If you know any additional information, like why the change
> was made and which version is more common, that would be appreciated as well.
> 
> For vectors, I only have listed the white vs gold text version of Asteroids
> backglass instructions.
> 
> Does someone know anything Star Wars marquee differences?  I recall some
> mention about one version has the grid lines a darker blue than the other (I
> have both versions).
> 
> Any other vector ones you can think of?  (If you can think of some raster ones,
> you may want to e-mail me directly to keep the posts on-topic :-)).
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mark Jenison                       E-mail address: jenison 
> Cellular Infrastructure Group      Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

From cmoore  Mon Apr  5 14:27:37 1999
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Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 15:31:14 -0400
To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
From: "Christopher V. Moore" <cmoore >
Subject: Re: Survey: vector artwork differences
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The two vector ones that I know of are Tempest.  One has more monsters
and has brighter colors.  The side art is different too. I think it was
that one has artwork on just the upper half and the other has artwork 
on the whole side.

I have two Battlezone marquees that have different colors.  One has white
on it and the other is yellow.
--
Christopher V. Moore -- Principal Engineeer
Heartlab, Inc. - 101 Airport Rd - Westerly, RI 02891 -- www.heartlab.com
Phone: (401) 596-0592 x113 - Fax: (401) 596-8562 - Email: cmoore 

From zonn  Mon Apr  5 16:34:12 1999
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From: zonn  (Zonn)
To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Survey: vector artwork differences
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 21:34:29 GMT
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On Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:59:41 -0500 (CDT), Mark Jenison <jenison >
wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I'm working on a new section for my web page about odd artwork differences made
>for machines during a production run (for example, normal Q*bert marquee vs
>swearing marquee).  If you know any additional information, like why the change
>was made and which version is more common, that would be appreciated as well.
>
>For vectors, I only have listed the white vs gold text version of Asteroids
>backglass instructions.

I have two Tailgunner front panels, one is Black & Yellow, the other is Purple,
Blue and Yellow.  I have no idea which one was more predominant.

-Zonn

From ClayC  Mon Apr  5 19:37:57 1999
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From: Clay Cowgill <ClayC >
To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" <vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Tempest/Vortex goings on...
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:37:39 -0700 
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Hey all,

Just a little status update on the Aliens/Vortex/Tempest multigame:

I worked on the prototype multigame boards last week and after working
some more this weekend I have the main daughtercard fully operational
now.  (Granted it takes a Fluke 9010 to switch games at the moment, but
that's easily solved by a Small Matter Of Programming. ;-)

I need to revise the prototype-- (missed a clock signal from the main
board), but as long as the software menu stuff works OK (sometime this
week) I'll do one more quick-turn prototype and then go to production.
Production boards take about four weeks, so sometime around the 10th of
May or so the kits should be ready.  I'll do manuals and software during
the four-week lead on boards.  Demand was sufficient that I'll do full
soldermasked boards with silkscreen and whatnot. (Basically just like
the MultiPac.)

I'll set-up some way to take pre-paid orders at a reduced price probably
around the last week of April with a cut-off of May 10th.  After that
the kit will revert to some other (higher) price.  

-Clay

(Non-vector related-- I also worked on the Exidy Shooter Multigame a
bit.  Looks like I'll support 8 games:  Crossbow, Cheyenne, Combat,
Chiller, HitNMiss, Clay Pigeon, Whodunit, and uhhhhh... The 8th one.
Not Top Secret or Showdown.  I'm going to try to hack in a Nintendo
"Zapper" from the NES sometime in the not-too-distant future to use as a
gun-- should be interesting.  If any of you understand the "collision"
bit in the Exidy 440 system graphics subsystem please drop me an
e-mail... :-)

From frankk@fundy.net Mon Apr  5 21:09:46 1999
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References: <199903291621.KAA08228 > 
		<9903291028.ZM8915 >
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Hi,

I understand that the European "Space Duel"'s didn't have
art work on the sides but instead had wood grain cabinets. I don't
know if this was just SD or other Games suffered this indignity..;-)

Frank

Mark Jenison wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm working on a new section for my web page about odd artwork differences made
> for machines during a production run (for example, normal Q*bert marquee vs
> swearing marquee).  If you know any additional information, like why the change
> was made and which version is more common, that would be appreciated as well.
> 
> For vectors, I only have listed the white vs gold text version of Asteroids
> backglass instructions.
> 
> Does someone know anything Star Wars marquee differences?  I recall some
> mention about one version has the grid lines a darker blue than the other (I
> have both versions).
> 
> Any other vector ones you can think of?  (If you can think of some raster ones,
> you may want to e-mail me directly to keep the posts on-topic :-)).
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mark Jenison                       E-mail address: jenison 
> Cellular Infrastructure Group      Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

From JOE.MAGIERA  Mon Apr  5 21:33:14 1999
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Subject: Re: Survey: vector artwork differences
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>I understand that the European "Space Duel"'s didn't have art work on the 
>sides but instead had wood grain cabinets. I don't know if this was just 
>SD or other Games suffered this indignity..;-)

That's an interesting point.  A lot of the Atari manuals I have point out 
differences in the USA built versus Ireland built cabinets (I remember 
Food Fight from working on it recently).  Might the side art be different 
on all of these also?

Joe

joe.magiera 

From jbovee@voyager.net Mon Apr  5 21:39:16 1999
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From: "Jeff Bovee" <jbovee@voyager.net>
To: "Vectorlist" <vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Pole Position Manual TM-218
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:37:39 -0400
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE7FB4.E90F7DE0
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Does anyone know where I can find this manual on-line (pdf) I've looked =
through spies, RGVAC archive, and as many other places that I could find =
that have manuals with no luck.  All I really need to know is the =
location of ROM 18 which is where my board is hanging up.  My chart only =
shows ROMs 0 - 9. Thanks for any help you can give.

Sincerely,
Jeff Bovee

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE7FB4.E90F7DE0
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<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Does anyone know where I can find =
this manual=20
on-line (pdf) I've looked through spies, RGVAC archive, and as many =
other places=20
that I could find that have manuals with no luck.&nbsp; All I really =
need to=20
know is the location of ROM 18 which is where my board is hanging =
up.&nbsp; My=20
chart only shows ROMs 0 - 9. Thanks for any help you can =
give.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Sincerely,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Jeff =
Bovee</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE7FB4.E90F7DE0--

From rlboots@cedar-rapids.net Tue Apr  6 01:33:19 1999
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To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu, Jeff Bovee <jbovee@voyager.net>
Subject: Re: Pole Position Manual TM-218
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I do have the book, but ROMs are numbered 0 through 9
there, also.  Perhaps you have both a ROM 1 and a ROM 8
failure?


Jeff Bovee wrote:

>  Does anyone know where I can find this manual on-line
> (pdf) I've looked through spies, RGVAC archive, and as
> many other places that I could find that have manuals with
> no luck.  All I really need to know is the location of ROM
> 18 which is where my board is hanging up.  My chart only
> shows ROMs 0 - 9. Thanks for any help you can
> give. Sincerely,Jeff Bovee

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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
I do have the book, but ROMs are numbered 0 through 9
<br>there, also.&nbsp; Perhaps you have both a ROM 1 and a ROM 8
<br>failure?
<br>&nbsp;
<p>Jeff Bovee wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;<font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Does anyone
know where I can find this manual on-line (pdf) I've looked through spies,
RGVAC archive, and as many other places that I could find that have manuals
with no luck.&nbsp; All I really need to know is the location of ROM 18
which is where my board is hanging up.&nbsp; My chart only shows ROMs 0
- 9. Thanks for any help you can give.</font></font>&nbsp;<font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Sincerely,</font></font><font color="#000000"><font size=-1>Jeff
Bovee</font></font></blockquote>

</body>
</html>

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From jrr  Tue Apr  6 02:47:43 1999
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Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 00:42:54 -0700
From: John Robertson <jrr >
Organization: John's Jukes Ltd.
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Might be a Namco boardset. I believe they used different numbers for the
roms. What is the part number of your game board?

John :-#)#

(not a vector game, but still fun to play, Maybe Clay can Vectorize
it...)

Rodger Boots wrote:
> 
> I do have the book, but ROMs are numbered 0 through 9
> there, also.  Perhaps you have both a ROM 1 and a ROM 8
> failure?
> 
> 
> Jeff Bovee wrote:
> 
> >  Does anyone know where I can find this manual on-line (pdf) I've
> > looked through spies, RGVAC archive, and as many other places that I
> > could find that have manuals with no luck.  All I really need to
> > know is the location of ROM 18 which is where my board is hanging
> > up.  My chart only shows ROMs 0 - 9. Thanks for any help you can
> > give. Sincerely,Jeff Bovee

-- 
 John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9     
 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)  
 mailto:jrr       
        "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."


From mayday19@idt.net Tue Apr  6 03:42:03 1999
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There are a LOT of differences in tempest side art.. when I was 18 (not
too long ago :) I part timed for an operator and he had about
12 tempests in the warehouse.. I lined a few of them up as I was cleaning
up and I noticed every one had different side art, marquees and control
panels. The oddest one was serial #8. the tube lines in the side art did
not extend into the lower half of the cabinet (below the black line) also
there was only purple highlights on the lines instead of the usual pink
and purple. the control panel on it looked just like the regular art but
there was no blue, anything in blue on the regular panel just wasn't
there. Yes I tried to get that cab :>

The main difference you see on tempest cab side art is the black line in
the middle of the side art. sometimes the black extends all the way to the
edges of the cab, sometimes it doesnt, sometimes is is totally surrounded
by the red border, sometimes not.. Sometimes the red border is not
even there. I've seen a few combinations I've kept an eye out for
tempest art after I first noticed all the differences.. also I've seena
few different color combinations on the tube lines..

I's say there is probably at least 6 revs of the side art.. not including
stupid little stuff like the color of the tube line highlights which is
probably just an ink change because a certain color ink costed less..

Also the marquee comes in 2 flavors, the earlier tempests have the letters
in "tempest" shaded in with colors, later ones (say after about serial
#9k) have solid purple letters. I think all the cabarets have solid purple
letters?

I think everyone should take a pic of their tempest side art and send it 
to to mark :> There are probably at least 50 tempests available from this
list.. I was gonna make up an artwork page for tempest back back when I
first fired up my site a couple years ago (the last time I updated it :)
..but ran out of space and time.. what a suprise.

Jeff

From mayday19@idt.net Tue Apr  6 04:06:27 1999
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From: Jeff Anderson <mayday19@idt.net>
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> That's an interesting point.  A lot of the Atari manuals I have point out 
> differences in the USA built versus Ireland built cabinets (I remember 
> Food Fight from working on it recently).  Might the side art be different 

I dont think the ireland games had any sideart, just woodgrain. the cabs
were all pretty generic. Foodfight, Crystal casltes, and Millipede all
used the same cabinet as did a few others I'm sure.. I have 2 ireland
built games, a BZ mini and a Soccer. they both have Stainless steel coin
doors that look really cool too..  their wiring harnesses are held 
together with electrical tape instead of ty wraps and the T-moulding they
used is different too..

Now I'd like to see some of the japan built Atari games.. I recall they
sold the japan factory in '76 to Namco? I'll bet the surviving number of
games built there could be counted on one hand.. if there are any left at
all.

Jeff

From gonzothegreat  Tue Apr  6 05:37:18 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 05:36:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Pole Position Manual TM-218
Message-ID: <19990406.053608.3182.4.gonzothegreat >
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On Tue, 06 Apr 1999 00:42:54 -0700 John Robertson <jrr >
writes:

<Pole Position stuff>

>(not a vector game, but still fun to play, Maybe Clay can Vectorize
it...)

I can vectorize this thread in two words. Vectrex cart. :)

Pole Position was a cart for the Vectrex. One of the raster arcade
classics that were vectorized for the Evil Black Mac. Scramble, PP,
Berzerk, etc.

Hmmm...Star Wars + Vectrex + multicart = one weird looking Pole Position
:P

Virtu-Al

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From sickgear  Tue Apr  6 09:20:35 1999
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On 04/06/99 05:06:24 you wrote:
>
>> That's an interesting point.  A lot of the Atari manuals I have point out 
>> differences in the USA built versus Ireland built cabinets (I remember 
>> Food Fight from working on it recently).  Might the side art be different 
>
>I dont think the ireland games had any sideart, just woodgrain. the cabs
>were all pretty generic. Foodfight, Crystal casltes, and Millipede all
>used the same cabinet as did a few others I'm sure.. I have 2 ireland
>built games, a BZ mini and a Soccer. they both have Stainless steel coin
>doors that look really cool too..  their wiring harnesses are held 
>together with electrical tape instead of ty wraps and the T-moulding they
>used is different too..
FWIW, I've never seen any of the other Ireland games, but my Ireland Battlezone (full size) has 
full sideart.  The only difference is the silver coin door.

Derek

>
>Now I'd like to see some of the japan built Atari games.. I recall they
>sold the japan factory in '76 to Namco? I'll bet the surviving number of
>games built there could be counted on one hand.. if there are any left at
>all.
>
>Jeff
>
>
>



From jenison  Tue Apr  6 09:52:15 1999
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On Apr 6,  9:20am, sickgear  wrote:
> Subject: Re: Survey: vector artwork differences
> On 04/06/99 05:06:24 you wrote:
>
> The only difference is the silver coin door.

Ok, this is the second time this week someone has refered to a "silver coin
door".  What's the story with this?  I've never seen one (other than Williams
style silver coin doors).  Was is just for Ireland games?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Jenison                       E-mail address: jenison 
Cellular Infrastructure Group      Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL
----------------------------------------------------------------------


From kmahan  Tue Apr  6 10:13:20 1999
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[... Ireland games without sideart ...]

My Time Scanner (atari made, sega designed) that was from Ireland doesn't
have any sideart (just grey sides)..

ObVector -- I finally had to tear into my Pirate Mini-Asteroids..  "wow"
Everything except the monitor and the coin door is "non-atari".. Even
the cabinet (which doesn't look bad) is a clone.  *sigh* -- I was gonna
use the monitor in my mini-bz, but the guys that built the asteroids 
couldn't be bothered with a molex plug, so they cut the one off the
monitor and spliced the wires together.. "thanks"

Kurt

From Todd.Miller  Tue Apr  6 10:13:53 1999
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From: Todd Miller <Todd.Miller >
To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" <vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: RE: Survey: vector artwork differences
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	>I think everyone should take a pic of their tempest side art
and send it 
	>to mark :> There are probably at least 50 tempests available
from this
>list..

I have a fairly clean shot of my Tempests side art at; 

http://www.netconx.net/~litterbox/graphics/side.jpg

Todd Miller, MCSE LAN Analyst 
Ron Weber and  Associates
103 E. State Street, Mason City, IA 50401
(515)423-4293/(515)423-4594 FAX
http://www.telethinking.com


From sickgear  Tue Apr  6 10:46:35 1999
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Hi,

Yep, as far as I know it's just ireland games.  If you wanna see one, there's a pic at:

http://pw2.netcom.com/~sickgear/bzsd.gif

It's not very exciting, tho, just a silver coin door on a battlezone :)

Derek


On 04/06/99 09:48:51 you wrote:
>
>On Apr 6,  9:20am, sickgear  wrote:
>> Subject: Re: Survey: vector artwork differences
>> On 04/06/99 05:06:24 you wrote:
>>
>> The only difference is the silver coin door.
>
>Ok, this is the second time this week someone has refered to a "silver coin
>door".  What's the story with this?  I've never seen one (other than Williams
>style silver coin doors).  Was is just for Ireland games?
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Mark Jenison                       E-mail address: jenison 
>Cellular Infrastructure Group      Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>



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Hi Jeff,

  >I dont think the ireland games had any sideart, just woodgrain....

That certainly describes my Ireland built BZ cabaret.

  >....I have 2 ireland built games, a BZ mini and a Soccer. they
  > both have Stainless steel coin doors that look really cool too....

This is something I'm curious about, my machine has a steel coindoor and
surround both of which are painted black. Also they are most definitely not
made of stainless steel as witnessed by the spots of rust on the coindoor.

The machine came like this from the factory as the original owner bought it
new....

  >....their wiring harnesses are held  together with electrical tape
  >instead of ty wraps....

Again, my wiring harness is held together using wire ties...?


  TTFN - Pete.

--
Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer.
Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC)

peter.pachla@virgin.net (primary account) | ICQ# 12560790
peter.pachla@vectrex.freeserve.co.uk      |
peter.pachla@wintermute.free-online.co.uk | www.wintermute.free-online.co.uk
--


From jenison  Tue Apr  6 17:02:23 1999
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Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:59:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mark Jenison <jenison >
Message-Id: <199904062159.QAA09638 >
In-Reply-To: Todd Miller <Todd.Miller >
        "RE: Survey: vector artwork differences" (Apr  6, 11:08am)
References: <199904061540.KAA24876 >
X-face: oR?Ne3)HMw-8KhQ[.WK_f(>#V%Uoh6<<yW+05hoJkcu5X82g7}<[oGx:([cHBeW*gG'B@Bm_#66,*{e-H/0G[l]?F1&5Hp>uZW2%T[G$FZ[$](cd:7rBD)F36`*Ea#ym.|Kw5k;\Zx*CkhL=Tg^mSN:b_D!UEf7C"&f\x7Xxt!#UmwVu|hX6brc8QWO;6+pNL
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On Apr 6, 11:08am, Todd Miller wrote:
> Subject: RE: Survey: vector artwork differences
> 	>I think everyone should take a pic of their tempest side art
> and send it
> 	>to mark :> There are probably at least 50 tempests available
> from this
> >list..
>
> I have a fairly clean shot of my Tempests side art at;
>
> http://www.netconx.net/~litterbox/graphics/side.jpg

Ah ha!  And this picture differs with the one here:

http://members.aol.com/xyvids/apartmentarcade.html

Notice the difference in the black bands?  One has the black band surrounded
with an orange band, all surrounded with white, while the other black band is
surrounded with orange and goes all the way to the edge!  Maybe if we could get
the serial numbers off these, we could figure out production runs...

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Jenison                       E-mail address: jenison 
Cellular Infrastructure Group      Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL
----------------------------------------------------------------------





From computerspace  Tue Apr  6 17:33:57 1999
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From: "Tom Cloud" <computerspace >
To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Survey: vector artwork differences
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 15:33:24 PDT
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I thought I'd throw in here, I have a Video Pinball, Ireland built cab
with full side art, but no stainless steel coin door - it's black :^(

This game is LOADED with art and looks very cool.

TTYL
Tom Cloud




From: sickgear 
>Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
>To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
>Subject: Re: Survey: vector artwork differences
>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:20:00 -0500 (CDT)
>
>On 04/06/99 05:06:24 you wrote:
>>
>>> That's an interesting point.  A lot of the Atari manuals I have 
point out 
>>> differences in the USA built versus Ireland built cabinets (I 
remember 
>>> Food Fight from working on it recently).  Might the side art be 
different 
>>
>>I dont think the ireland games had any sideart, just woodgrain. the 
cabs
>>were all pretty generic. Foodfight, Crystal casltes, and Millipede all
>>used the same cabinet as did a few others I'm sure.. I have 2 ireland
>>built games, a BZ mini and a Soccer. they both have Stainless steel 
coin
>>doors that look really cool too..  their wiring harnesses are held 
>>together with electrical tape instead of ty wraps and the T-moulding 
they
>>used is different too..
>FWIW, I've never seen any of the other Ireland games, but my Ireland 
Battlezone (full size) has 
>full sideart.  The only difference is the silver coin door.
>
>Derek
>
>>
>>Now I'd like to see some of the japan built Atari games.. I recall 
they
>>sold the japan factory in '76 to Namco? I'll bet the surviving number 
of
>>games built there could be counted on one hand.. if there are any left 
at
>>all.
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From mr.bill@thegrid.net Tue Apr  6 17:52:11 1999
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From: bill esquivel <mr.bill@thegrid.net>
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you can also notice that the lasers(?) coming from the center of the art is has
more colors. This difference is also on the control panel and I think on the
marquee as well.

Mark Jenison wrote:

> On Apr 6, 11:08am, Todd Miller wrote:
> > Subject: RE: Survey: vector artwork differences
> >       >I think everyone should take a pic of their tempest side art
> > and send it
> >       >to mark :> There are probably at least 50 tempests available
> > from this
> > >list..
> >
> > I have a fairly clean shot of my Tempests side art at;
> >
> > http://www.netconx.net/~litterbox/graphics/side.jpg
>
> Ah ha!  And this picture differs with the one here:
>
> http://members.aol.com/xyvids/apartmentarcade.html
>
> Notice the difference in the black bands?  One has the black band surrounded
> with an orange band, all surrounded with white, while the other black band is
> surrounded with orange and goes all the way to the edge!  Maybe if we could get
> the serial numbers off these, we could figure out production runs...
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mark Jenison                       E-mail address: jenison 
> Cellular Infrastructure Group      Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

From frankk@fundy.net Tue Apr  6 17:53:54 1999
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Hi,

Here is a picture of a "Wood Grain" Space Duel I found on the net:


http://mars.acs.oakland.edu/~phkahler/SpaceDuel.html

But the coin mech looks normal...

For those of you with a Space Duel here is one of the best pages on it:

http://www.arcade.org/~king/spaceduel.html

Frank

Jeff (Mr Vector Game Archive) you might want to put a link to that
one...

From litterbox@netconx.net Tue Apr  6 19:02:59 1999
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Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 19:00:41 -0500
From: Todd Miller <litterbox@netconx.net>
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My serial # is 1668.  I have additional shots of the marquee &
control panel (not 'CP modified', that's not the original CP) at;

http://www.netconx.net/~litterbox/pikx.html


FWIW: I have returned my Tempest back to original condition,
anyone have an empty Star Wars cab near IA ?

Todd Miller


bill esquivel wrote:

> you can also notice that the lasers(?) coming from the center of the art is has
> more colors. This difference is also on the control panel and I think on the
> marquee as well.
>
> Mark Jenison wrote:
>
> > On Apr 6, 11:08am, Todd Miller wrote:
> > > Subject: RE: Survey: vector artwork differences
> > > >I think everyone should take a pic of their tempest side art
> > > >and send it to mark :> There are probably at least 50 tempests available
> > > >from this list..
> > >
> > > I have a fairly clean shot of my Tempests side art at;
> > >
> > > http://www.netconx.net/~litterbox/graphics/side.jpg
> >
> > Ah ha!  And this picture differs with the one here:
> >
> > http://members.aol.com/xyvids/apartmentarcade.html
> >
> > Notice the difference in the black bands?  One has the black band surrounded
> > with an orange band, all surrounded with white, while the other black band is
> > surrounded with orange and goes all the way to the edge!  Maybe if we could get
> > the serial numbers off these, we could figure out production runs...
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Mark Jenison                       E-mail address: jenison 
> > Cellular Infrastructure Group      Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

From Burbs1@concentric.net Tue Apr  6 21:17:06 1999
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		<9903291028.ZM8915 >
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Ok, I made the statement yesterday that I have 2 WOW, dedicated machine but one
case is very different then the "standard" with the flip down kick panel.
look here..  http://www.basementarcade.com/arcade/wow/

-=Mark=-

Mark Jenison wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm working on a new section for my web page about odd artwork differences made
> for machines during a production run (for example, normal Q*bert marquee vs
> swearing marquee).  If you know any additional information, like why the change
> was made and which version is more common, that would be appreciated as well.
>
> For vectors, I only have listed the white vs gold text version of Asteroids
> backglass instructions.
>
> Does someone know anything Star Wars marquee differences?  I recall some
> mention about one version has the grid lines a darker blue than the other (I
> have both versions).
>
> Any other vector ones you can think of?  (If you can think of some raster ones,
> you may want to e-mail me directly to keep the posts on-topic :-)).
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mark Jenison                       E-mail address: jenison 
> Cellular Infrastructure Group      Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------



From mr.bill@thegrid.net Tue Apr  6 23:54:43 1999
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From: bill esquivel <mr.bill@thegrid.net>
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It looks like one is bigger than the other. Is it also wider? It could be the
difference of cabaret and full size.
They made several different crazy climbers. The cabaret is not much smaller than the
normal one and I think the one with the wraparound plastic control panel is smaller
thane the one with the metal panel.

Mark E Davidson wrote:

> Ok, I made the statement yesterday that I have 2 WOW, dedicated machine but one
> case is very different then the "standard" with the flip down kick panel.
> look here..  http://www.basementarcade.com/arcade/wow/
>
> -=Mark=-
>
> Mark Jenison wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm working on a new section for my web page about odd artwork differences made
> > for machines during a production run (for example, normal Q*bert marquee vs
> > swearing marquee).  If you know any additional information, like why the change
> > was made and which version is more common, that would be appreciated as well.
> >
> > For vectors, I only have listed the white vs gold text version of Asteroids
> > backglass instructions.
> >
> > Does someone know anything Star Wars marquee differences?  I recall some
> > mention about one version has the grid lines a darker blue than the other (I
> > have both versions).
> >
> > Any other vector ones you can think of?  (If you can think of some raster ones,
> > you may want to e-mail me directly to keep the posts on-topic :-)).
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Mark Jenison                       E-mail address: jenison 
> > Cellular Infrastructure Group      Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

From twisnion  Wed Apr  7 10:47:04 1999
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From: "TomW" <twisnion >
To: <vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Reproduction Updates
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:47:12 -0600
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Gang,
   Just thought you'd be interested in some updates on the asteroids
overlays and bellows reproductions.

The Asteroids art is done, proofs approved and its now in the hands
of the printer, he needs to get the films made for the screens and then
print.
I hope to have them in 2-3 weeks, Cost to you, $25 +$5 shipping, pretty
good price point I thought.

For the bellows, I've selected the hardness for the duothane and the
warehouse just called and told me its in and they will deliver it this
afternoon.
 I've gotten 2 gallons of the stuff so that should be more that enough. The
mould is machined aluminum
and the guy making it needed to buy a special bit or something to cut the
inside curves, as soon as I get the bill for the mould, I can provide
complete
pricing on that. This is based of course, that the end result tests out
ok...

I am supposed to get an asteroids deluxe panel in so I can copy that art, so
if/when that arrives I will probably do that vector next.

I've also refined the printing process again for Tapper overlays, and in
that
research, I found a better way to make true translates, I've got the artwork
for the ZEKTOR marquee, is there any interest in translites for this game ?
I can't do plexi right now, the artwork that I have is raster, not vector
based
so I'd have to redraw it, and I doubt there is demand for that effort...
But, the
translite is a no-brainier... Plus it preserves the value of the original
marquee.

And lastly, one of my repair stops has a star castle that is dead and up
for sale. They want $150 for it, I looked at it, and the breakers keep
blowing,
I disconnected the monitor and sound board, and it no longer blows, but the
CPU
LED does not flash and go out, so I believe that the true problem lies in
the CPU
as it can cause the monitor to deflect and pop the breakers from what I'm
told.
Maybe even the supply voltages, but they don't want to mess with it.
Dunno if this is a good deal but, I thought I'd pass it on. No shipping
though, its
in Elgin,IL, if you interested, email me privately and I'll give you the #.

Later.
TomW






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From: MILSOM44@webtv.net (jason Milsom)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:01:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Survey: vector artwork differences
Message-ID: <6833-370B815A-411@mailtod-162.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
In-Reply-To: Mark Jenison <jenison >'s message of Tue, 6 Apr
	1999 16:59:07 -0500 (CDT)
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 I have two Tempests at the minute. One is Serial #800 and something. It
has the black band on the side going all the way to the front of the
cab. The other is serial# 20,000 something it has white around the black
bands and less colours on the beams shooting out from the center. The
Marquees and Control panels are exactly the same. I wonder why they
changed?

Jason Milsom

From eddie  Wed Apr  7 11:04:56 1999
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Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:04:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ed Henciak <eddie >
To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Reproduction Updates
In-Reply-To: <000301be8116$874ebae0$e470bfc7@tomw>
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Tom,

	I am very sorry I never got that beat up NOS overlay out to you
for Asteroids.  A couple things happened this month that caused me to get
hung up for a while (one of those was surgery on my friggin nose so I can
breathe better).  I am a moron and very sorry about that, and hopefully,
overall, it didn't impact your project.  I know it's something as simple
as mailing a friggin big envelope out, but with as hectic as things get
sometimes....  

	If anything happens with Asteroids Deluxe, LMK as I do have a CP
for that (upright), but it's one that I need.  It's the actual CP as
well...not a sticker.  I haven't played it in a few months, so lending it
out would be no problem.  I'd cover all shipping.

	Finally, do you still have Tapper stuff available, and are you
still planning on doing Tron side art (even quietly since Disney does own
it?)

Ed


On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, TomW wrote:

> Gang,
>    Just thought you'd be interested in some updates on the asteroids
> overlays and bellows reproductions.
> 
> The Asteroids art is done, proofs approved and its now in the hands
> of the printer, he needs to get the films made for the screens and then
> print.
> I hope to have them in 2-3 weeks, Cost to you, $25 +$5 shipping, pretty
> good price point I thought.
> 
> For the bellows, I've selected the hardness for the duothane and the
> warehouse just called and told me its in and they will deliver it this
> afternoon.
>  I've gotten 2 gallons of the stuff so that should be more that enough. The
> mould is machined aluminum
> and the guy making it needed to buy a special bit or something to cut the
> inside curves, as soon as I get the bill for the mould, I can provide
> complete
> pricing on that. This is based of course, that the end result tests out
> ok...
> 
> I am supposed to get an asteroids deluxe panel in so I can copy that art, so
> if/when that arrives I will probably do that vector next.
> 
> I've also refined the printing process again for Tapper overlays, and in
> that
> research, I found a better way to make true translates, I've got the artwork
> for the ZEKTOR marquee, is there any interest in translites for this game ?
> I can't do plexi right now, the artwork that I have is raster, not vector
> based
> so I'd have to redraw it, and I doubt there is demand for that effort...
> But, the
> translite is a no-brainier... Plus it preserves the value of the original
> marquee.
> 
> And lastly, one of my repair stops has a star castle that is dead and up
> for sale. They want $150 for it, I looked at it, and the breakers keep
> blowing,
> I disconnected the monitor and sound board, and it no longer blows, but the
> CPU
> LED does not flash and go out, so I believe that the true problem lies in
> the CPU
> as it can cause the monitor to deflect and pop the breakers from what I'm
> told.
> Maybe even the supply voltages, but they don't want to mess with it.
> Dunno if this is a good deal but, I thought I'd pass it on. No shipping
> though, its
> in Elgin,IL, if you interested, email me privately and I'll give you the #.
> 
> Later.
> TomW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

From eddie  Wed Apr  7 12:03:26 1999
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Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:03:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ed Henciak <eddie >
To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Reproduction Updates
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.4.02.9904071159330.29694-100000 >
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Sorry group...this was meant to be sent privately....

Arrrggghhhh...

Ed...stuck in a Vortex.



On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, Ed Henciak wrote:

> Tom,
> 
> 	I am very sorry I never got that beat up NOS overlay out to you
> for Asteroids.  A couple things happened this month that caused me to get
> hung up for a while (one of those was surgery on my friggin nose so I can
> breathe better).  I am a moron and very sorry about that, and hopefully,
> overall, it didn't impact your project.  I know it's something as simple
> as mailing a friggin big envelope out, but with as hectic as things get
> sometimes....  
> 
> 	If anything happens with Asteroids Deluxe, LMK as I do have a CP
> for that (upright), but it's one that I need.  It's the actual CP as
> well...not a sticker.  I haven't played it in a few months, so lending it
> out would be no problem.  I'd cover all shipping.
> 
> 	Finally, do you still have Tapper stuff available, and are you
> still planning on doing Tron side art (even quietly since Disney does own
> it?)
> 
> Ed
> 
> 
> On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, TomW wrote:
> 
> > Gang,
> >    Just thought you'd be interested in some updates on the asteroids
> > overlays and bellows reproductions.
> > 
> > The Asteroids art is done, proofs approved and its now in the hands
> > of the printer, he needs to get the films made for the screens and then
> > print.
> > I hope to have them in 2-3 weeks, Cost to you, $25 +$5 shipping, pretty
> > good price point I thought.
> > 
> > For the bellows, I've selected the hardness for the duothane and the
> > warehouse just called and told me its in and they will deliver it this
> > afternoon.
> >  I've gotten 2 gallons of the stuff so that should be more that enough. The
> > mould is machined aluminum
> > and the guy making it needed to buy a special bit or something to cut the
> > inside curves, as soon as I get the bill for the mould, I can provide
> > complete
> > pricing on that. This is based of course, that the end result tests out
> > ok...
> > 
> > I am supposed to get an asteroids deluxe panel in so I can copy that art, so
> > if/when that arrives I will probably do that vector next.
> > 
> > I've also refined the printing process again for Tapper overlays, and in
> > that
> > research, I found a better way to make true translates, I've got the artwork
> > for the ZEKTOR marquee, is there any interest in translites for this game ?
> > I can't do plexi right now, the artwork that I have is raster, not vector
> > based
> > so I'd have to redraw it, and I doubt there is demand for that effort...
> > But, the
> > translite is a no-brainier... Plus it preserves the value of the original
> > marquee.
> > 
> > And lastly, one of my repair stops has a star castle that is dead and up
> > for sale. They want $150 for it, I looked at it, and the breakers keep
> > blowing,
> > I disconnected the monitor and sound board, and it no longer blows, but the
> > CPU
> > LED does not flash and go out, so I believe that the true problem lies in
> > the CPU
> > as it can cause the monitor to deflect and pop the breakers from what I'm
> > told.
> > Maybe even the supply voltages, but they don't want to mess with it.
> > Dunno if this is a good deal but, I thought I'd pass it on. No shipping
> > though, its
> > in Elgin,IL, if you interested, email me privately and I'll give you the #.
> > 
> > Later.
> > TomW
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

From Burbs1@concentric.net Wed Apr  7 13:41:45 1999
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Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 14:41:38 -0400
From: Mark E Davidson <Burbs1@concentric.net>
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To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Survey: vector artwork differences
References: <005201be806b$8d4f6800$0f0e883e@greenback>
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With the exception of the front, the cabinets are identical in shape and size.
My picture may give off an illusion that one is bigger then the other but the
are both the same (although  the "Taller" one is sitting on a moving dolly)
Perhaps the angle of the shot?

-=Mark=-

Peter Pachla wrote:

> Hi Jeff,
>
>   >I dont think the ireland games had any sideart, just woodgrain....
>
> That certainly describes my Ireland built BZ cabaret.
>
>   >....I have 2 ireland built games, a BZ mini and a Soccer. they
>   > both have Stainless steel coin doors that look really cool too....
>
> This is something I'm curious about, my machine has a steel coindoor and
> surround both of which are painted black. Also they are most definitely not
> made of stainless steel as witnessed by the spots of rust on the coindoor.
>
> The machine came like this from the factory as the original owner bought it
> new....
>
>   >....their wiring harnesses are held  together with electrical tape
>   >instead of ty wraps....
>
> Again, my wiring harness is held together using wire ties...?
>
>   TTFN - Pete.
>
> --
> Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer.
> Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC)
>
> peter.pachla@virgin.net (primary account) | ICQ# 12560790
> peter.pachla@vectrex.freeserve.co.uk      |
> peter.pachla@wintermute.free-online.co.uk | www.wintermute.free-online.co.uk
> --



From chumblespuzz  Wed Apr  7 18:56:05 1999
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From: "chumblespuzz" <chumblespuzz >
To: <vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Survey: vector artwork differences
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:56:34 -0400
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How 'bout the difference in Tempest spinner knobs? I have two machines, only
200 serial numbers apart (16501, 16700) and one has the skirted knob, one
has the non-skirted knob. Is there any rhyme or reason to which knob was
used?

-roy-

From jbovee@voyager.net Wed Apr  7 20:18:05 1999
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From: "Jeff Bovee" <jbovee@voyager.net>
To: <vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Reproduction Updates
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 21:05:03 -0400
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Hey Tom count me in on one of those Asteroids overlays, my CP could use =
a good sprucing up.  Just let me know when they are ready and where to =
send the check.

Sincerely,
Jeff Bovee

jbovee@voyager.net=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
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<HEAD>

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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hey Tom count me in on one of those =
Asteroids=20
overlays, my CP could use a good sprucing up.&nbsp; Just let me know =
when they=20
are ready and where to send the check.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Sincerely,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Jeff Bovee</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:jbovee@voyager.net">jbovee@voyager.net</A>=20
</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From mayday19@idt.net Wed Apr  7 21:56:44 1999
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Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:56:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Anderson <mayday19@idt.net>
To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Survey: vector artwork differences
In-Reply-To: <001e01be8152$44beaa00$0a0ee418 >
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All tempests use the skirted knob, the knob on your other one is broken.


On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, chumblespuzz wrote:

> How 'bout the difference in Tempest spinner knobs? I have two machines, only
> 200 serial numbers apart (16501, 16700) and one has the skirted knob, one
> has the non-skirted knob. Is there any rhyme or reason to which knob was
> used?
> 
> -roy-
> 
> 

From chumblespuzz  Wed Apr  7 22:14:36 1999
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From: "chumblespuzz" <chumblespuzz >
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Subject: Re: Survey: vector artwork differences
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:14:42 -0400
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First, my Tempest's non-skirted knob is not broken. It is moulded that way.
The upper portion is exactly the same as the skirted version - same
diameter, same knurling, same ridge around the top. It just doesn't have the
skirt.

I remember through the years seeing and playing both types. I've posted
questions about this to RGVAC and many people confirmed that both were used.
Many people have preferences for one kind or another. Some think the skirt
gets in the way, but I prefer it.

So with that said, anyone have an NOS skirted knob they want to sell me? Or
how 'bout trade for my non-skirted one. :)

-roy-

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Anderson <mayday19@idt.net>
To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu <vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 10:58 PM
Subject: Re: Survey: vector artwork differences


>
>All tempests use the skirted knob, the knob on your other one is broken.
>
>
>On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, chumblespuzz wrote:
>
>> How 'bout the difference in Tempest spinner knobs? I have two machines,
only
>> 200 serial numbers apart (16501, 16700) and one has the skirted knob, one
>> has the non-skirted knob. Is there any rhyme or reason to which knob was
>> used?
>>
>> -roy-
>>
>>
>

From mayday19@idt.net Thu Apr  8 00:39:51 1999
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I have been operating several tempests and 2 warlords (uses the same
knobs) for several years now.. I've had the knobs break and I've bought
Tempest machines with broken knobs in the past (which was always replaced
with a skirted knob).

I dont see why Atari would just randomly buy a few hundred of the
non-skirted knobs some point into Tempest's production (at a much higher
cost) and put one on a machine here, one machine there.. that doenst make
sense..  Atari wouldn't randomly change the "feel" of the
game, players might not accept it and operators will not stand for that.
I've seen them break and the skirt breaks off clean from the bottom of the
knob, not the sides  (in every case, that is the weak point), so it may
look like it was moulded that way. I dont doubt that broken knobs was an
occasional occurrance over the years so I can see how you got people to
confirm you.. 

Jeff



On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, chumblespuzz wrote:

> First, my Tempest's non-skirted knob is not broken. It is moulded that way.
> The upper portion is exactly the same as the skirted version - same
> diameter, same knurling, same ridge around the top. It just doesn't have the
> skirt.
> 
> I remember through the years seeing and playing both types. I've posted
> questions about this to RGVAC and many people confirmed that both were used.
> Many people have preferences for one kind or another. Some think the skirt
> gets in the way, but I prefer it.
> 
> So with that said, anyone have an NOS skirted knob they want to sell me? Or
> how 'bout trade for my non-skirted one. :)
> 
> -roy-
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Anderson <mayday19@idt.net>
> To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu <vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>
> Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 10:58 PM
> Subject: Re: Survey: vector artwork differences
> 
> 
> >
> >All tempests use the skirted knob, the knob on your other one is broken.
> >
> >
> >On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, chumblespuzz wrote:
> >
> >> How 'bout the difference in Tempest spinner knobs? I have two machines,
> only
> >> 200 serial numbers apart (16501, 16700) and one has the skirted knob, one
> >> has the non-skirted knob. Is there any rhyme or reason to which knob was
> >> used?
> >>
> >> -roy-
> >>
> >>
> >
> 
> 

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