From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Aug 1 00:04:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 00:03:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 00:03:47 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Barrier drawings up Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist I got a care package in the mail today from Kurt, so I ran down to work and scanned all the stuff in. This manual has the cleanest set of CPU drawings i've ever seen! I'm probably the only one who cares, but, it also looks like this one set of CPU drawings was done on a Xerox drawing system (I recognize the font...) The quality was so good, I scanned in almost the whole manual at 600 DPI. The schematics look really good blown up to 11 * 17 with the exception of one sheet that had really tiny type. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Aug 1 08:47:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 08:46:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: replacement for 6012? Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 08:44:53 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist G'day folks, My memory may be failing me, but the TL182 is the ALU for the bit sliced architecture. Three TL182s are next to the EPROMs and are the same size as the EPROMs (but without the windows). Steven S Ozdemir sso ps - I've never heard of a TL182 failing? >---------- >From: aek ] >Sent: Thursday, July 31, 1997 7:58 PM >To: vectorlist >Subject: Re: replacement for 6012? > >cool. I'll update the copy on the schematics page when it >appears. > >someone on RGVAC was looking for a TL182 for a cine sound board. >I looked at all the sound schematics, and all of them only use >TL081's for Op Amps. i wonder if he needs one for a Cine raster >game? > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Aug 1 08:58:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 08:58:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 11:00:52 -0500 From: jwelser (Joseph J. Welser) Message-Id: <9708011600.AA11404@maileng3> To: vectorlist Subject: RE: replacement for 6012? Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist > G'day folks, > > My memory may be failing me, but the TL182 is the ALU for the bit sliced > architecture. Three TL182s are next to the EPROMs and are the same size > as the EPROMs (but without the windows). Those are 74LS181s (Close in number....but not the same.) Actually, there IS a 74LS182, which is the Carry-Lookahead Generator on there too. The manuals actually refer to 25LS181s, which I've never heard of before. > Steven S Ozdemir > sso > > ps - I've never heard of a TL182 failing? I've never run into that either (with LS181s) Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Aug 1 09:01:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:01:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:08:10 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: replacement for 6012? Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >I was just looking at 12 bit D/A's with the >thought of building a little cine > WG adapter, >and came upon the Analog Devices DAC312 > >This part looks like it is pin compatible >with the AMD 6012! > >The block diagram even looks like the AMD one >in the '81 AMD Linear Data Book! > >Anyone want to try getting some 'samples'? I'll volunteer! I can't believe I missed the similarity before. I guess I never found the DAC312 in the "product selector" trees. Not only does the block diagram look the same, the example applications look the same. I'd say there's a 90% probability that it's a licensed 2nd source for the 6012. Anyway, I'll see what I can find on it, and as long as it's cheaper than the surface mount AM6012 -> DIP boards that I did it's a win... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Aug 1 09:11:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:11:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:17:54 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: RE: replacement for 6012? Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist > Those are 74LS181s (Close in number....but not the same.) Actually, >there IS a 74LS182, which is the Carry-Lookahead Generator on there too. > > The manuals actually refer to 25LS181s, which I've never heard of >before. Do believe those are just Advanced Microdevices old "equivalent" numbering scheme for 74xxx parts. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Aug 1 09:12:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:12:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:12:22 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: RE: replacement for 6012? Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist I dug around a bit more, a TL182 is an analog switch. One of the sad things around Apple is no one (except me..) saves old data books. The TL182 isn't in the latest book but it was in volume 2 of the '92 linear books. I can tell because I found a copy of Vol 1 :-( From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Aug 1 09:14:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:14:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:14:22 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: RE: replacement for 6012? Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist 25LS series parts were AMD LS TTL. They (sometimes) match the TI 74LS part numbers. The AMD 25LS serial multiplier part has a TI equivalent, with a different part number. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Aug 1 09:18:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:17:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:17:46 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: replacement for 6012? Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist clay said: "Anyway, I'll see what I can find on it, and as long as it's cheaper than the surface mount AM6012 -> DIP boards that I did it's a win... I was looking for something to use instead of the DAC80's for a cine->WG converter and found those. They also have a really cool dual 12 bit double buffered DAC with an 8 bit uP interface (DAC 8248) if someone wanted to build a completely in software vector generator.. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Aug 1 09:21:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:21:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:21:15 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Barrier sound board looks like Space War! Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist For yucks, I pulled out my Space War board set, and with a few deltas, it looks like the Barrier sound board. They are VERY close (a couple of extra parts around the TL182... TL182!, so thats where they use it!) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Aug 1 09:47:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:47:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:47:22 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: TL182 cross Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Looks like Siliconix makes (made?) a cross for the TL182. Here's the pinout The TL182 is a dual SPST JFET switch S1 1 14 S2 D1 2 13 D2 <-- the switch 3 12 4 11 I1 5 10 <-- ttl switch in V+ 6 9 V- 5v 7 8 GND Siliconix DG180/181/182's should work. The various parts have 10,30, and 75 ohms of ON resistance. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Aug 1 10:03:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:03:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: Barrier sound board looks like Space War! Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:01:09 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist G'day, Now that's an exciting find, Al! I've always wondered if two Cinematronics sound boards were close enough that you could make one from the other with the addition of a few parts! Steven S Ozdemir sso >---------- >From: aek ] >Sent: Friday, August 01, 1997 11:21 AM >To: vectorlist >Subject: Barrier sound board looks like Space War! > > >For yucks, I pulled out my Space War board set, and >with a few deltas, it looks like the Barrier sound >board. They are VERY close (a couple of extra parts >around the TL182... TL182!, so thats where they use >it!) > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Aug 1 10:03:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:03:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:10:41 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: replacement for 6012? (pricing) Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Looks like pricing on the DAC312 is about $7.50 a pop from Newark. Price break at 100+ down to about $6.60. My AM6012 (surface mount) to DIP boards were going at $7, so it's kind-of a push for me. Newark has a $25 minimum order, but since that's only 4 chips it's no big deal. I dunno if they're stock though, if they're not stock Newark does screwy stuff like 500 piece minimum orders and whatnot... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Aug 1 10:10:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:10:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:17:15 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: replacement for 6012? Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >I was looking for something to use instead of the DAC80's for a cine->WG >converter and found those. They also have a really cool dual 12 bit double >buffered DAC with an 8 bit uP interface (DAC 8248) if someone wanted to >build a completely in software vector generator.. Ahhhhh... I see. I'd just go for something like a MAX 502 then. 12 bit, voltage output, in production, free samples, etc. No real reason (IMHO) to chase 6012 equivalents except for existing designs. You can still get DAC-80's if you just want to clone the WG monitor adapter, but at something over 200 parts that was a bit more than I wanted to deal with... ;-) AD7845's fit the bill nicely too. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Aug 1 10:20:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:20:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 97 10:25 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970801101941.259710dc@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist From: Zonn Subject: Re: replacement for 6012? Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist At 10:17 AM 8/1/97 -0800, you wrote: >>I was looking for something to use instead of the DAC80's for a cine->WG >>converter and found those. They also have a really cool dual 12 bit double >>buffered DAC with an 8 bit uP interface (DAC 8248) if someone wanted to >>build a completely in software vector generator.. > >Ahhhhh... I see. I'd just go for something like a MAX 502 then. 12 bit, >voltage output, in production, free samples, etc. No real reason (IMHO) to >chase 6012 equivalents except for existing designs. You can still get >DAC-80's if you just want to clone the WG monitor adapter, but at something >over 200 parts that was a bit more than I wanted to deal with... ;-) > >AD7845's fit the bill nicely too. > >-Clay > >Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager >_______________________________________________________________________ >/\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay >\/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ > > > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Aug 1 10:25:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:25:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 97 10:30 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970801102431.25975820@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist From: Zonn Subject: Re: replacement for 6012? Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist At 10:17 AM 8/1/97 -0800, you wrote: >>I was looking for something to use instead of the DAC80's for a cine->WG >>converter and found those. They also have a really cool dual 12 bit double >>buffered DAC with an 8 bit uP interface (DAC 8248) if someone wanted to >>build a completely in software vector generator.. > >Ahhhhh... I see. I'd just go for something like a MAX 502 then. 12 bit, >voltage output, in production, free samples, etc. No real reason (IMHO) to >chase 6012 equivalents except for existing designs. You can still get >DAC-80's if you just want to clone the WG monitor adapter, but at something >over 200 parts that was a bit more than I wanted to deal with... ;-) (Sorry about that last *empty* reply, my itchy mouse finger pressed the wrong button) This is just to let anybody interested know that the DAC-800 was a monolithic replacement for the DAC-80, it's drop in compatible and has tighter specs. The surplus store I by replacement parts had a few of these and no DAC-80, so I bought them and they work fine! (In fact because of their tighter specs, I'm currently running with those and use the DAC-80's as backups). I don't know the availability of these parts. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Aug 1 10:34:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:34:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 97 10:39 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970801103334.25971f3c@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist From: Zonn Subject: RE: Barrier sound board looks like Space War! Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist At 10:01 AM 8/1/97 -0700, you wrote: >G'day, > >Now that's an exciting find, Al! I've always wondered if two >Cinematronics sound boards were close enough that you could make one >from the other with the addition of a few parts! You can also easily hack a Star Castle sound card into a War of the Worlds sound card. (There's a description for doing so on Bill's Cinematronics Home Page at: http://www.concentric.net/~Zonn if your interested in this, just click on "technical") -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Aug 1 10:44:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:44:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 97 10:48 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970801104315.2f67b13c@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist From: Zonn Subject: Re: replacement for 6012? Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist At 09:17 AM 8/1/97 -0700, you wrote: >clay said: >"Anyway, I'll see what I can find on it, and as long as it's cheaper than >the surface mount AM6012 -> DIP boards that I did it's a win... > > >I was looking for something to use instead of the DAC80's for a cine->WG >converter and found those. They also have a really cool dual 12 bit double >buffered DAC with an 8 bit uP interface (DAC 8248) if someone wanted to >build a completely in software vector generator.. And if someone *were* to do this, I would do my best to support it with the emulator, and then given sound, we'd have a functionally equivalent remake of the original Cinematronics games using none of the original hardware! (I'm assuming WG's color or Asteriod B&W monitors would be used for all the games.) This would certainly remove the need for a Cinematronics -> Color board. Kind of a cool thought! -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Aug 1 10:53:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:53:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:53:43 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: replacement for 6012? Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Using the WG or Asteroids monitor was the thought. That's the problem with thumbing through data books, you see all these parts and then start thinking about things you could do with them (assuming you can actually GET the parts..) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Aug 1 15:18:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 15:18:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 15:18:07 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: newark on-line catalog Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Turns out Newark has a web-based catalog. DAC312HP's are: 1-9 $7.43 10-24 $6.75 25-99 $5.40 www.newark.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Aug 1 21:32:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 21:32:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <01BC9EDB.E19FBD60 > From: Frank Palazzolo To: "'vectorlist > Subject: Speech Chips & Simulation Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 00:34:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Vectorlisters... I'm trying to write a program to simulate a TMS5220. I think I've got enough data so that this should be pretty straightforward. I'd like to make it flexible enough to simulate a SP0250 as well. Does anyone have any data at all on the SP0250? I looked back through the list archives and I thought I saw that someone had found a GI databook. Thanks, Frank Palazzolo PS. The outcome of this may be that I can go the other way - from sample to compressed ROM image. palazzol From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Aug 1 21:44:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 21:44:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 21:44:47 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Speech Chips & Simulation Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist This was all I was able to come up with. If you're really ambitious, you could try Microchip in Chandler,AZ but I didn't get anywhere with them. From: "Duke, Peter" To: aek Subject: RE: SP0250 data Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:26:40 +1000 X-Priority: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Status: RO There is just one page. The rest is electrical stuff. There are 15 parameters each of 1 byte, which are input to pins 3 2 28 27 26 25 24 23 (3 is Most Significant Bit). The bytes are labelled (in order) C21, C11, Amplitude, C22, C12, Pitch, C23, C13, Repeat, C24, C14, C25, C15, C26, C16. The C's are the twelve (reflection?) coefficients, where the MSB is the sign, 1 = pos. The amplitude in direct data mode has the 3 MSBs as exponent. The pitch does not have a sign bit. Repeat has MSB set to 0, MSB-1 set to V(u), remaining bits the repeat value. It does not say what V(u) is (there is a bar over the u). It may be the voiced/unvoiced flag. Finally there is a description of a byte which may be an alternative to the amplitude. The MSB is sign 1 = neg, the rest is amplitude. A note says "exponent from normal mode remains until changed". That's all I have on programming. Sorry Peter From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Aug 2 13:11:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 2 Aug 1997 13:11:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 13:11:39 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: zektor speech roms Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist has anyone been able to get speech working fom the archived rom data? it appears 1607 and 1608 are both 2048 bytes long and are the same data. is there any difference in board jumper settings? between zektor and trek? From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Aug 2 23:01:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 2 Aug 1997 23:01:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 23:01:10 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: zektor speech roms are fine Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist sometimes it's best just to go do something else for a few hours and come back to a project later... From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Aug 3 13:50:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 13:50:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <01BCA02D.A466BC20 > From: Frank Palazzolo To: "'vectorlist > Subject: Star Wars Sound ROM corrupt? Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 16:52:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist I think there may be a problem with the currently available sound ROM image from Star Wars labelled 136021.208. The readme.txt says it has a checksum 9358 (hex) and my checksum program says 1358 (hex). Moreover, it fails the Sound Card Self Test on an emulator. Unfortunately, I had to give the Star Wars game I was fixing back to the rightful owner already, so I can't verify this on hardware right now. :< Anyone with a game want to give this a shot, or compare their ROM to the archived one? It might be that it fails the self test but still works fine in a game. Otherwise I'll check it out when I get another one in here. Thanks a lot, Frank Palazzolo palazzol From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Aug 3 14:04:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 14:04:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <01BCA02F.9C3D4760 > From: Frank Palazzolo To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: Star Wars Sound ROM corrupt? Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 17:06:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Please disregard my previous message... (How could I screw up a checksum program....Doh!) -Frank palazzol From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Aug 3 15:19:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 15:19:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 15:19:34 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Star Wars Sound ROM corrupt? Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist I'll check my set tonight From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Aug 3 15:20:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 15:20:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 15:20:08 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: RE: Star Wars Sound ROM corrupt? Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Please disregard my previous message... (How could I screw up a checksum program....Doh!) ..guess I should read all my mail before I reply. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Aug 3 18:16:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 18:16:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 18:16:13 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: britt, vectorlist Subject: Vstick Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist this looks kind of fun.. http://www.alpha1.net/~v-stick The V-Stick is a full-sized, dual joystick arcade control panel for use with personal computers. Made from the same quality arcade parts the full-sized machines use, the V-Stick returns control to PC games that can be rivaled only by dropping quarters into machines in arcades. The development of arcade game emulators (programs that run the original game code from arcade machines) brings a need for tighter, more precise control than the standard analog controller can deliver. The V-Stick brings not one, but two 8-way digital arcade joysticks to the PC, perfect for use with classic and modern video games. J V-Stick Features: Dual 8-way digital arcade joysticks Two buttons per joystick,J Left and right-handed players supported (mirrored button layout) Full-sized (23.5") arcade styled control panel Plugs into any PC keyboard port - no joystick card required! Computer keyboard remains fully operational Compatible with most games Heavy-duty construction with real arcade components J J $79.95 From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Aug 3 22:42:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 22:42:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 22:42:23 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: two older speech articles Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist I scanned in two older speech hardware articles that gave a nice overview of formant hardware, and some descriptions of the filters. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Aug 4 12:16:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 12:16:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: 04 Aug 1997 15:14 EDT To: vectorlist From: "Mark Shostak" Subject: More Rotary Encoders Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist In message "Paul was right", zonn@pop3.concentric.net writes: > >Hmmmm. Actually I hadn't thought about it a lot yet. In retrospect, I > >suppose there's enough I/O that I could use a bit or two for "mode select". > >I was thinking of just having everything work simultaneously, but I guess > >that isn't necessary. Close a jumper and it's a G-80 spinner, open and > >it's a Midway spinner... That'd be kinda cool. > > Actually I was thinking the same thing! > > Read inputs > Output G-80 spinner... > Output Midway spinner... > Output Dir & Clock... > etc. > loop > In all the recent discussions about rotary encoders, I don't think I ever saw anyone mention Cinematronics. The reason this comes to mind now, sev- eral weeks later, is that I just started work on connecting a Boxing Bugs board set to my Cosmic Chasm. Both of which use rotary encoders, neither of which were mentioned above. Has anyone checked into these games yet? I'm hoping they take a straight quad. input and work with each others control panels. Cheers, Mark From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Aug 4 15:10:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 15:10:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 18:11:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708042211.SAA26524@mailrelay.tiac.net> X-Sender: fishd@pop.tiac.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist From: fishd Subject: Cine' Exorcisor & SC_FREE Star Trek Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Hi Folks, A couple of things... First, the SC_FREE version of Star Trek was released today and can be found on TANT and union.edu (when Brian puts it up). This one has got to be one of the worst vector games, IMHO. It certainly doesn't make my top 10 list ;-). Anyway, it's there if you want it. Yawn. On a more 'up' note, Steve's Cinematronics Exorcisor showed up today (you can stop worrying Steve). There really isn't alot to it so it should be fairly easy to clone. I'll get a schematic and parts list uploaded to TANT ASAP (hopefully by the weekend), making it work may take a wee bit longer. David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! fishd | By hook or by crook we will" dfish | _The Prisoner_ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Aug 4 15:30:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 15:30:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 15:36:54 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: More Rotary Encoders Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >In all the recent discussions about rotary encoders, I don't think I ever >saw anyone mention Cinematronics. The reason this comes to mind now, sev- >eral weeks later, is that I just started work on connecting a Boxing Bugs >board set to my Cosmic Chasm. Both of which use rotary encoders, neither >of which were mentioned above. Ahhh! More to the list! Well, I took a look at this this last weekend (too hot to work in the garage or outside so I had to find something indoors where the AC is :-) and have the following operational: Processor: PIC 16C54 (since I had the nice Windows based simulator I had to use it... ;-) Code is currently at 134 words (of 512 total). It supports the following: Input: quadrature signal (2 lines TTL level), 2 mode select lines Output: Mode0: "raw" 8-bit count (like TRON) Mode1: "G-80" 7 bit count plus direction bit Mode2: "Omega Race/Clk&Dir" 6 bit grey-code. Also clock&direction Mode3: TBD Now then, I need a little help/advise... What four modes should I pick to support? Looks like there's some more possibilities-- Midway "Kick" four bit something or other. Anyone have a schematic? Cinematronics spinner. (That is, if it's other than quadrature) Anything else? Also, I could really use a copy of the Omega Race schematics if anyone can spare a set, or scan and post them. I need to get a board working to make sure this greycode table is right... Anyway, thanks in advance... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Aug 4 15:54:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 15:54:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 97 15:59 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970805035648.0eaf97cc@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist From: Zonn Subject: Re: More Rotary Encoders Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist At 03:36 PM 8/4/97 -0800, you wrote: >>In all the recent discussions about rotary encoders, I don't think I ever >>saw anyone mention Cinematronics. The reason this comes to mind now, sev- >>eral weeks later, is that I just started work on connecting a Boxing Bugs >>board set to my Cosmic Chasm. Both of which use rotary encoders, neither >>of which were mentioned above. > >Ahhh! More to the list! > >Well, I took a look at this this last weekend (too hot to work in the >garage or outside so I had to find something indoors where the AC is :-) >and have the following operational: > >Processor: PIC 16C54 (since I had the nice Windows based simulator I had >to use it... ;-) > >Code is currently at 134 words (of 512 total). It supports the following: > >Input: quadrature signal (2 lines TTL level), 2 mode select lines >Output: > Mode0: "raw" 8-bit count (like TRON) > Mode1: "G-80" 7 bit count plus direction bit > Mode2: "Omega Race/Clk&Dir" 6 bit grey-code. Also clock&direction > Mode3: TBD > >Now then, I need a little help/advise... What four modes should I pick to >support? Looks like there's some more possibilities-- > > Midway "Kick" four bit something or other. Anyone have a schematic? > Cinematronics spinner. (That is, if it's other than quadrature) The Cinematronics spinners are off the shelf shaft encoders, while I haven't looked I'm sure finding a replacement for these would be easy. They just look and feel like a standard pot. They output standard quadrature signals. I'm not sure where the decoding is done on Cosmic Chasm, but it's not done inside the spin knob. On Boxing Bugs it's done on the Sound Board. If you wanted to set it up so that the outputs of your PIC connected directly to the inputs of the C-CPU, you'd need to convert to an 8 bit absolute count (0-255 with wrap around) and you would have to have an extra inputs that latched the current value (just keep it from being updated) and allowed the cpu to select the upper or lower nibble of the count, since it only reads 4 bits of the count at a time. The Boxing Bugs sound board schematic is now on www.spies.com. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Aug 4 15:58:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 15:58:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison ) Message-Id: <199708042259.SAA06702 > Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 17:58:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Clay Cowgill "Re: More Rotary Encoders" (Aug 4, 3:36pm) References: <199708042230.SAA04486 > X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: More Rotary Encoders Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Aug 4, 3:36pm, Clay Cowgill wrote: > Subject: Re: More Rotary Encoders > > Input: quadrature signal (2 lines TTL level), 2 mode select lines > Output: > Mode0: "raw" 8-bit count (like TRON) > Mode1: "G-80" 7 bit count plus direction bit > Mode2: "Omega Race/Clk&Dir" 6 bit grey-code. Also clock&direction > Mode3: TBD > > Now then, I need a little help/advise... What four modes should I pick to > support? Looks like there's some more possibilities-- > > Midway "Kick" four bit something or other. Anyone have a schematic? Offhand, I would guess that Kick is just a subset of TRON. I think at one time I had a TRON control panel hooked up to my Kick cabinet. You have to spin the encoder so fast to move it was nearly impossible to play. In fact now that I think about it, I think the interface board was the same for each. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Aug 4 16:45:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 16:45:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 16:45:19 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: omega race drawings Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist i'll scan them in tonight. they are the usual weird extra long drawings so i'll have to scan them in pieces. if you had any extra space in the encoder, it might be interesting to have a mode where the spinner could emulate rotl and rotr buttons so if you didn't want to have them on the panel, you could still play emiminator and space fury with a spinner knob... From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Aug 4 17:18:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 17:18:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: omega race drawings Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 17:16:23 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist G'day, I do like this idea....Rick Schieve and I always wondered if we could replace the right, left, forward and thrust controls of Rip Off with something that wouldn't give us carp tunnel syndrome during our hour long games. In this case replacing the buttons with a spinner isn't achieving these ends, but I still like the idea for a univeral control panel! Steven S Ozdemir sso >---------- >From: aek ] >Sent: Monday, August 04, 1997 6:45 PM >To: vectorlist >Subject: omega race drawings > > >i'll scan them in tonight. they are the usual weird extra long drawings >so i'll have to scan them in pieces. > >if you had any extra space in the encoder, it might be interesting to >have a mode where the spinner could emulate rotl and rotr buttons so >if you didn't want to have them on the panel, you could still play >emiminator and space fury with a spinner knob... > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Aug 4 17:20:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 17:20:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 97 17:25 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970805052310.32c7717e@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist From: Zonn Subject: Re: omega race drawings Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist At 04:45 PM 8/4/97 -0700, you wrote: > >i'll scan them in tonight. they are the usual weird extra long drawings >so i'll have to scan them in pieces. > >if you had any extra space in the encoder, it might be interesting to >have a mode where the spinner could emulate rotl and rotr buttons so >if you didn't want to have them on the panel, you could still play >emiminator and space fury with a spinner knob... It's much easier to write a program that allows rotl and rotr buttons look like a spin knob than it is to have a spin knob look like rotl and rotr buttons. Without feed back from the game as to how far the object has spun, there is no way to keep the spin knob and object in sync. The spin knob can be spun at any speed, the rotl/rotr buttons move the object at a set speed so you can end up with buffered "rotates" where you move the knob back and forth fast, then watch as the game object catches up with your moves. One alternative is a "move while you spin" algorithm which gets pretty old as you have to keep the spin knob constantly spinning to keep the object moving. Another alternative is a joystick mode, where anything past a certain distance cause a move until you back up to center, the problem with this is accidently letting go of the spin knob and losing center. It all depends on how you write the program, but at it's best it's still pretty clumsy -- and it never does have the feel of the original game. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Aug 4 17:37:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 17:37:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 17:37:03 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: omega race drawings Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist actually, what I was thinking of was a zero center sort of thing, with a little dead-band near the center, actually.... that reminds me, I wanted to have this as a mode for the spinner too, so you wouldn't have to spin the bloody knob so hard in Major Havoc! no spin no spin rotl rotr slow left slow right fast left fast right so... you don't actually SPIN the spinner, you just rotate farther left or right for more pulses/sec. this is hard to do with a dumb quadrature decoder, but should be straightforward if there is a uP there to remember how fast you're spinning! the little drawing above right is actually a continuously variable speed, not just 'slow' and 'fast' From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Aug 4 18:08:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 18:08:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 97 18:13 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970805061111.0ebfbcaa@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist From: Zonn Subject: Re: omega race drawings Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist At 05:37 PM 8/4/97 -0700, you wrote: >actually, what I was thinking of was a zero center sort of thing, with >a little dead-band near the center, Yeah that was the third example I gave. If you ever let go of the knob and lose the center you could easily die a few times trying to find it again. This can really be a pain when switching from player 1 to player 2, since the PIC has no idea what the game is doing, it can't just "re-center" the knob before each turn, and you'll have to carefully hold the knob at center while the next player positions himself (or a little "Ooops! I slipped! Sorry!" when your losing!). >actually.... that reminds me, I wanted to have this as a mode for the >spinner too, so you wouldn't have to spin the bloody knob so hard in >Major Havoc! > > > no spin no spin >rotl rotr slow left slow right > fast left fast right > > >so... you don't actually SPIN the spinner, you just rotate farther left >or right for more pulses/sec. How about acceleration control like they do in mouse drivers? That way your faster spins would be multiplied in speed, but you wouldn't have to worry about losing center. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Aug 4 20:32:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 20:32:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 20:32:27 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: omega race schematics Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist the schematics for the main and sound boards are up on spies. I converted the large main drawing into three smaller drawings From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Aug 5 09:48:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 09:47:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 09:54:27 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: omega race drawings Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >actually, what I was thinking of was a zero center sort of thing, with >a little dead-band near the center, Right, I was thinking of treating it like a "broken" analog joystick pot that doesn't auto-center. (Turning a little to the left outputs some pulse train on the "left" button line, turning more to the left pulls the line low constantly-- remember you can't "turn" faster than holding the button down all the time.) Zonn's right about losing the wheel position though. How about just going on the direction of the knob, but with some hysteresis? Something like: If the knob ever moves 6 "ticks" left in a row, "push" left button and latch If the knob ever moves 6 "ticks" right in a row, "push" right button and latch If the knob ever moves less than 6 but more than 3 "ticks" in the opposite direction (from the current "latched" direction), unlatch current direction. So, if you want to turn right, turn the knob right. You can spin it right all day long and it doesn't matter. You can give it 1/8th turn right and leave it and it still turns right. If you turn it a "little" left it still turns right, if you turn is a "little more" left it stops turning, if you turn it "yet a little more" left it starts turning left. Does that make sense? Basically try to tune it so that the change of direction decides the right/center/left choice, but build in some "jitter" factor so a little twitch the wrong way doesn't turn the ship accidentally, but a little turn the other direction *does* turn the ship... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Aug 5 10:19:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:19:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: omega race drawings Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:17:04 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist G'day folks, I have an interesting proposition for a spin knob! Let's start with a Discs of Tron "up and down" spin knob. If you don't push the knob up or down, then it acts just like a spin knob....you have to keep spinning it to keep turning. If you push down while turning the spin knob, then it acts just like Clay and Al have been describing. To be safe, I'd suggest that pulling up on the knob stops all activity. What do you think? Steven S Ozdemir sso ps - If this idea takes off, I'm going to be really annoyed that both of my Discs of Tron control panels went to Mark J in the trade for that wonderful 4 player Eliminator cocktail. >---------- >From: Clay Cowgill[SMTP:clay ] >Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 1997 12:54 PM >To: vectorlist >Subject: Re: omega race drawings > >>actually, what I was thinking of was a zero center sort of thing, with >>a little dead-band near the center, > >Right, I was thinking of treating it like a "broken" analog joystick pot >that doesn't auto-center. (Turning a little to the left outputs some pulse >train on the "left" button line, turning more to the left pulls the line >low constantly-- remember you can't "turn" faster than holding the button >down all the time.) > >Zonn's right about losing the wheel position though. How about just going >on the direction of the knob, but with some hysteresis? Something like: > >If the knob ever moves 6 "ticks" left in a row, "push" left button and latch >If the knob ever moves 6 "ticks" right in a row, "push" right button and >latch >If the knob ever moves less than 6 but more than 3 "ticks" in the opposite >direction (from the current "latched" direction), unlatch current >direction. > >So, if you want to turn right, turn the knob right. You can spin it right >all day long and it doesn't matter. You can give it 1/8th turn right and >leave it and it still turns right. If you turn it a "little" left it still >turns right, if you turn is a "little more" left it stops turning, if you >turn it "yet a little more" left it starts turning left. > >Does that make sense? Basically try to tune it so that the change of >direction decides the right/center/left choice, but build in some "jitter" >factor so a little twitch the wrong way doesn't turn the ship accidentally, >but a little turn the other direction *does* turn the ship... > >-Clay > >Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager >_______________________________________________________________________ >/\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay >\/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ > > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Aug 5 10:36:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:36:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Lotus-Fromdomain: SYBASENOTES From: "Paul Tonizzo" To: sso Cc: vectorlist Message-Id: <852564EA.006039C5.00 > Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:34:27 -0400 Subject: Re: RE: omega race drawings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist In response to: G'day folks, I have an interesting proposition for a spin knob! Let's start with a Discs of Tron "up and down" spin knob. If you don't push the knob up or down, then it acts just like a spin knob....you have to keep spinning it to keep turning. If you push down while turning the spin knob, then it acts just like Clay and Al have been describing. To be safe, I'd suggest that pulling up on the knob stops all activity. What do you think? Steven S Ozdemir sso ps - If this idea takes off, I'm going to be really annoyed that both of my Discs of Tron control panels went to Mark J in the trade for that wonderful 4 player Eliminator cocktail. >---------- >From: Clay Cowgill[SMTP:clay ] >Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 1997 12:54 PM >To: vectorlist >Subject: Re: omega race drawings > >>actually, what I was thinking of was a zero center sort of thing, with >>a little dead-band near the center, > >Right, I was thinking of treating it like a "broken" analog joystick pot >that doesn't auto-center. (Turning a little to the left outputs some pulse >train on the "left" button line, turning more to the left pulls the line >low constantly-- remember you can't "turn" faster than holding the button >down all the time.) > >Zonn's right about losing the wheel position though. How about just going >on the direction of the knob, but with some hysteresis? Something like: > >If the knob ever moves 6 "ticks" left in a row, "push" left button and latch >If the knob ever moves 6 "ticks" right in a row, "push" right button and >latch >If the knob ever moves less than 6 but more than 3 "ticks" in the opposite >direction (from the current "latched" direction), unlatch current >direction. > >So, if you want to turn right, turn the knob right. You can spin it right >all day long and it doesn't matter. You can give it 1/8th turn right and >leave it and it still turns right. If you turn it a "little" left it still >turns right, if you turn is a "little more" left it stops turning, if you >turn it "yet a little more" left it starts turning left. > >Does that make sense? Basically try to tune it so that the change of >direction decides the right/center/left choice, but build in some "jitter" >factor so a little twitch the wrong way doesn't turn the ship accidentally, >but a little turn the other direction *does* turn the ship... > >-Clay > >Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager >_______________________________________________________________________ >/\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay >\/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ > > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Aug 5 10:51:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:51:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:57:48 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: More Rotary Encoders Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >Offhand, I would guess that Kick is just a subset of TRON. I think at one time >I had a TRON control panel hooked up to my Kick cabinet. You have to spin the >encoder so fast to move it was nearly impossible to play. In fact now that I >think about it, I think the interface board was the same for each. That could be. I think the Kick control I saw was a 74ls191 or a 74ls193 on the board. Maybe with a comparator and some other crap. Definately not the 74ls491 that the TRON spinner used though. BUT... I bet that if you use the upper four bits of the "raw" output at the inputs to Kick the ratio is about right... (Of course you could use the lower 4 bits and have hyper-speed too... ;-) I wonder if I have a working Kick boardset... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Aug 5 11:03:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:03:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:03:32 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: More Rotary Encoders Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist i have the kickman schematic here... i'll scan in the encoder drawing From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Aug 5 11:05:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:05:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 97 11:10 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970805230810.1237260e@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist From: Zonn Subject: RE: omega race drawings Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist At 10:17 AM 8/5/97 -0700, you wrote: >G'day folks, > >I have an interesting proposition for a spin knob! > >Let's start with a Discs of Tron "up and down" spin knob. If you don't >push the knob up or down, then it acts just like a spin knob....you have >to keep spinning it to keep turning. If you push down while turning the >spin knob, then it acts just like Clay and Al have been describing. To >be safe, I'd suggest that pulling up on the knob stops all activity. >What do you think? > > Steven S Ozdemir > sso > >ps - If this idea takes off, I'm going to be really annoyed that both of >my Discs of Tron control panels went to Mark J in the trade for that >wonderful 4 player Eliminator cocktail. Clay's last idea sounds like the most do-able to me, though I can see that because of the free spin past the limits being ignored you can get yourself to a point where you hand is all tweaked in one direction that is now considered the new center. But even if you get something working I'll bet I can kick all your asses using while you guys fiddle around with trying to get a spin knob to emulate subtle taps on the direction keys, when trying to regain control after being blasted towards the "Bagel of Death" in Eliminator! Just out of curiosity isn't it cheaper and easier to wire up 2 $0.50 arcade buttons than to find and program a Discs of Tron spin knob to act like them? :^> ? -Zonn (the confused) >>---------- >>From: Clay Cowgill[SMTP:clay ] >>Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 1997 12:54 PM >>To: vectorlist >>Subject: Re: omega race drawings >> >>>actually, what I was thinking of was a zero center sort of thing, with >>>a little dead-band near the center, >> >>Right, I was thinking of treating it like a "broken" analog joystick pot >>that doesn't auto-center. (Turning a little to the left outputs some pulse >>train on the "left" button line, turning more to the left pulls the line >>low constantly-- remember you can't "turn" faster than holding the button >>down all the time.) >> >>Zonn's right about losing the wheel position though. How about just going >>on the direction of the knob, but with some hysteresis? Something like: >> >>If the knob ever moves 6 "ticks" left in a row, "push" left button and latch >>If the knob ever moves 6 "ticks" right in a row, "push" right button and >>latch >>If the knob ever moves less than 6 but more than 3 "ticks" in the opposite >>direction (from the current "latched" direction), unlatch current >>direction. >> >>So, if you want to turn right, turn the knob right. You can spin it right >>all day long and it doesn't matter. You can give it 1/8th turn right and >>leave it and it still turns right. If you turn it a "little" left it still >>turns right, if you turn is a "little more" left it stops turning, if you >>turn it "yet a little more" left it starts turning left. >> >>Does that make sense? Basically try to tune it so that the change of >>direction decides the right/center/left choice, but build in some "jitter" >>factor so a little twitch the wrong way doesn't turn the ship accidentally, >>but a little turn the other direction *does* turn the ship... >> >>-Clay >> >>Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager >>_______________________________________________________________________ >>/\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay >>\/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ >> >> >> > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Aug 5 11:14:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:14:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:21:04 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: omega race schematics Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >the schematics for the main and sound boards are up on spies. >I converted the large main drawing into three smaller drawings Whoops, Looks like the links for the Main Board schematics are broken... The Sound board seems OK. Thanks Al! -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Aug 5 11:19:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:19:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:19:20 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: encoder schematic Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist ..the schematic is up on spies now. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Aug 5 11:22:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:21:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:21:53 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: omega race schematics Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist i'll fix the links BTW, you can always use FTP if the links don't work (and you might find some things there that I don't have links set up for... :-) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Aug 5 11:27:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:27:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: omega race drawings Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:25:42 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >---------- >From: Zonn[SMTP:zonn@concentric.net] >Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 1997 1:10 PM >To: vectorlist >Subject: RE: omega race drawings > >Clay's last idea sounds like the most do-able to me, though I can see that >because of the free spin past the limits being ignored you can get yourself >to a point where you hand is all tweaked in one direction that is now >considered the new center. > >But even if you get something working I'll bet I can kick all your asses >using while you guys fiddle around with trying >to get a spin knob to emulate subtle taps on the direction keys, when trying >to regain control after being blasted towards the "Bagel of Death" in >Eliminator! Ha! With my new tri directional controller (plus turbo thruster button), I'll be flying circles around you!! > >Just out of curiosity isn't it cheaper and easier to wire up 2 $0.50 arcade >buttons than to find and program a Discs of Tron spin knob to act like them? >:^> ? Look, Zonn, haven't you figured out that this has nothing to do with money, but instead has become a quest for the "ultimate" control! 8^) 8^) 8^) Someone who's willing to spend $1K on the universal 33" XY monitor should understand this! >-Zonn (the confused) > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Aug 5 11:40:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:40:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:40:44 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: RE: omega race drawings Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Look, Zonn, haven't you figured out that this has nothing to do with money, but instead has become a quest for the "ultimate" control! 8^) 8^) 8^) Someone who's willing to spend $1K on the universal 33" XY monitor should understand this! ..sticking my big nose into this again wouldn't a 4 way joystick with a fire button be the fastest control mechanism (left,right, pull back for thrust, and a fire button) ? ..guess it's actually 5 way counting left-thrust and right-thrust This might start a whole thread just on "best controls" though.. I noticed that it didn't take very much playing of the 4 player eliminator in San Diego before my less used hand (left, since i'm right handed) started to hurt because of having to stretch my 2nd and 4th fingers to reach the rotate buttons, and the force required to press the buttons. but, getting back to reality, yes, putting two rotate buttons on the panel is more practical. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Aug 5 11:41:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:41:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:48:07 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: RE: omega race drawings Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Zonn writes: >Just out of curiosity isn't it cheaper and easier to wire up 2 $0.50 arcade >buttons than to find and program a Discs of Tron spin knob to act like them? >:^> ? Ok, ok, we get the two buttons and just *glue* them to the spinner knob! Then we devise a wireless transmitter that mounts inside one of the buttons to send the button state to the main receiver board! It's so obvious! ;-) Seriously though, I agree with Zonn, the spinner->button convertor is an interesting idea, but I think the converse would be much more useful for most people. (You know, I could do that easily as "mode4" in the PIC. Use the two quadrature input lines as "rotate left" and "rotate right" input lines. Then output the appropriate pattern as a "virtual" spinner. I could probably use another couple lines of I/O though so select more options...) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Aug 5 11:44:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:44:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: 05 Aug 1997 14:42 EDT To: vectorlist From: "Mark Shostak" Subject: What To Pick For The PIC Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist In message "More Rotary Encoders", clay writes: > >In all the recent discussions about rotary encoders, I don't think I ever > >saw anyone mention Cinematronics. The reason this comes to mind now, sev- > >eral weeks later, is that I just started work on connecting a Boxing Bugs > >board set to my Cosmic Chasm. Both of which use rotary encoders, neither > >of which were mentioned above. > > Ahhh! More to the list! > Now then, I need a little help/advise... What four modes should I pick to > support? Looks like there's some more possibilities-- > It seems as if there are more than four different encoding schemes that we know of thus far. Due to I/O and memory constraints, we seem to be limit- ed to about four encoder variants in a PIC. I don't know all that much a- bout the PIC, but can you picture the following type of configuration; if the PIC were to be used as a platform (albeit a platform the size of a pin head), where you could bind in the specific variants required in your par- ticular application. This way, when you find yourself with that "new" game board sitting on the bench, you just slam in the variant you need and away you go. No worrying about not having the right interface. Also, anyone who finds a new encoding scheme only has to write the applica- tion portion of the interface, but won't have to reinvent the more common, low level stuff. FWIW, I'd be interested in seeing the Bugs variant. This way the encoding hardware won't have to be added to the new digital sound board to play the game. Cheers, Mark From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Aug 5 11:45:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:45:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 97 11:51 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970805234815.125f0588@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist From: Zonn Subject: RE: omega race drawings Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist At 11:25 AM 8/5/97 -0700, you wrote: > > >>---------- >>From: Zonn[SMTP:zonn@concentric.net] >>Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 1997 1:10 PM >>To: vectorlist >>Subject: RE: omega race drawings >> >>Clay's last idea sounds like the most do-able to me, though I can see that >>because of the free spin past the limits being ignored you can get yourself >>to a point where you hand is all tweaked in one direction that is now >>considered the new center. >> >>But even if you get something working I'll bet I can kick all your asses >>using while you guys fiddle around with trying >>to get a spin knob to emulate subtle taps on the direction keys, when trying >>to regain control after being blasted towards the "Bagel of Death" in >>Eliminator! > >Ha! With my new tri directional controller (plus turbo thruster >button), I'll be flying circles around you!! >> >>Just out of curiosity isn't it cheaper and easier to wire up 2 $0.50 arcade >>buttons than to find and program a Discs of Tron spin knob to act like them? >>:^> ? > >Look, Zonn, haven't you figured out that this has nothing to do with >money, but instead has become a quest for the "ultimate" control! 8^) >8^) 8^) Someone who's willing to spend $1K on the universal 33" XY >monitor should understand this! Only $1k? Where do I find one!! ;^) I understand your quest, and that's my point. Your ultimate control sounds to me like a dog when it comes to playing a game that uses Left Right Thrust Fire. Have you seen the Centipedes around that have been JAMMAtized into using a joystick instead of a track ball? That to me is a good analogy, the games playable, but *nothing* like the trackball version, but it does use a more universal control panel. Those subtle little taps on a key to change your flying angle "just a bit" to be able to shoot around the "bagel" are not going to be doable on a spin knob. I'll bet a $100 that no one will be able to create a "Spin knob to Left/Right" convertor algorithm that would allow anyone to win my brother in Eliminator (He's much better than me. Hey, you can win me by just sitting on the control panel, I lose in single player Space War! ;^) -Zonn (the hustler) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Aug 5 11:52:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:51:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:51:46 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: which encoder wheel? Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist One thing I've forgotten to ask in all of this is WHICH encoder wheel would be used for the input device? I would guess the Tempest wheel is the most common and, like the Sega wheel, it has a nice heavy flywheel attached. I have seen (and picked up) some HP encoder assemblies that are the size of a panel pot and have quadrature outputs. These don't have flywheels, but would be handy for a bench setup, or for putting into a little box for bench use. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Aug 5 13:27:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:27:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:33:55 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: which encoder wheel? Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >One thing I've forgotten to ask in all of this is WHICH >encoder wheel would be used for the input device? I would >guess the Tempest wheel is the most common and, like >the Sega wheel, it has a nice heavy flywheel attached. > >I have seen (and picked up) some HP encoder assemblies >that are the size of a panel pot and have quadrature >outputs. These don't have flywheels, but would be handy >for a bench setup, or for putting into a little box for >bench use. Good point. I haven't counted up all the teeth on the various wheels out there, but the one I'm using for testing is one of the Clarostat Optical Encoder assemblies with 128 pulses per revolution. (I think that's probably quite high compared to Tempest and certainly higher than the Sega stuff.) It's easy (relatively speaking) to scale the number of pulses down, but it's a pain to make more "virtual" pulses out of what you get in. (You need to trigger on rising and falling edges in that case and it's not something I want to figure out... ;-) A lot of Atari stuff seems to use a 64 position encoder assembly. Sega stuff looks clost to that amount as well. Kick was something really coarse-- maybe 16 or 32 teeth? I don't know about the Atari whirly-gig's (like Blasteroids) I think they're close to the spinner on Tempest. Major Havoc I'm not sure about for the "real" controller-- I have a (the?) prototype Major Havoc roller controller that I can count out I suppose. IMHO, the Tempest spinner is the best of the lot... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Aug 5 13:51:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:51:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199708052051.PAA24673@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Tue, 5 Aug 97 15:53:19 -0500 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: which encoder wheel? References: Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist You wrote: > A lot of Atari stuff seems to use a 64 position encoder assembly. Sega > stuff looks clost to that amount as well. Kick was something really > coarse-- maybe 16 or 32 teeth? I don't know about the Atari whirly-gig's > (like Blasteroids) I think they're close to the spinner on Tempest. Major > Havoc I'm not sure about for the "real" controller-- I have a (the?) > prototype Major Havoc roller controller that I can count out I suppose. Blasteroids is the same as Tempest. The "feel" seems to be about the same as the Atari trakballs, although they translate differently (different motions). For the vast bulk of the planet, the "original" MH interface is a Tempest encoder (MANY more conversions that dedicated units out there...I know I've never seen a dedicated MH) > IMHO, the Tempest spinner is the best of the lot... I agree 100%. They are also the easiest to find (important if you want wide impact) Of course, I'm going after the best of all worlds. I am building control panel modules with controls from the original Discs of Tron and Omega Race control panels, and have plenty of Tempest wheels for other games (Arkanoid, etc.) Ray From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Aug 5 14:20:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 14:20:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 97 14:26 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970806022313.10ef2368@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist From: Zonn Subject: Re: which encoder wheel? Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist At 01:33 PM 8/5/97 -0800, you wrote: >>One thing I've forgotten to ask in all of this is WHICH >>encoder wheel would be used for the input device? I would >>guess the Tempest wheel is the most common and, like >>the Sega wheel, it has a nice heavy flywheel attached. >> >>I have seen (and picked up) some HP encoder assemblies >>that are the size of a panel pot and have quadrature >>outputs. These don't have flywheels, but would be handy >>for a bench setup, or for putting into a little box for >>bench use. > >Good point. I haven't counted up all the teeth on the various wheels out >there, but the one I'm using for testing is one of the Clarostat Optical >Encoder assemblies with 128 pulses per revolution. (I think that's >probably quite high compared to Tempest and certainly higher than the Sega >stuff.) It's easy (relatively speaking) to scale the number of pulses >down, but it's a pain to make more "virtual" pulses out of what you get in. >(You need to trigger on rising and falling edges in that case and it's not >something I want to figure out... ;-) > >A lot of Atari stuff seems to use a 64 position encoder assembly. Sega >stuff looks clost to that amount as well. Kick was something really >coarse-- maybe 16 or 32 teeth? I don't know about the Atari whirly-gig's >(like Blasteroids) I think they're close to the spinner on Tempest. Major >Havoc I'm not sure about for the "real" controller-- I have a (the?) >prototype Major Havoc roller controller that I can count out I suppose. > >IMHO, the Tempest spinner is the best of the lot... I've counted those wholes in Tempest and Sega to compare the two. Sega had a nice even 64 which is cool because in quadrature it gives you 256 positions per revolution, which is easy to write code for. Atari's wasn't 64 but some bizarre number like 72 or something, I just remember it being off. I personally also like the feel of the Tempest spinner best. When I first spun Sega I thought "Cool, nice and weighted" but when heavily into game play try giving the Sega control a good spin, then stop it real fast. Yikes! Spin knob burn! I don't think the Sega games need the high spins to play and the weight feels cool there, but Tempest needs some good high speed spins with fast stops - so for universal I'd go with Atari -- IMHO. I haven't counted the pulses in Boxing Bugs and Cosmic Chasm, but I have taken apart the controllers and the resolutions quite high, more like your Clarostat, it looks like somewhere between 100 and 200 pulses per rev. (It might actually be the same part, it's some off the shelve shaft encoder, it wasn't made by Cinematronics.) -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Aug 5 20:51:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 20:50:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970805205200.0056bbc0@ng.netgate.net> X-Sender: grigsby@ng.netgate.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 20:52:00 -0700 To: vectorlist From: The Grigsbeast Subject: Re: which encoder wheel? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >One thing I've forgotten to ask in all of this is WHICH >encoder wheel would be used for the input device? I would >guess the Tempest wheel is the most common and, like >the Sega wheel, it has a nice heavy flywheel attached. I agree. It doesn't sound like getting pulses per revolution exact is necessary since you can't get a known resting position with an encoder and it all ends up being relative anyway... I wonder what encoder Mad Planets uses. I should go check...the knob is identical to Tempest but I don't know about the internals. Another option that might be useful is a bit on the interface to flip the direction of the quadrature. I found that more recent encoder wheels, while outwardly identical and mechanically similar to Tempest, actually reverse the two wires coming from the encoder, causing your player to spin backwards. Just a thought. // grigs From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 06:49:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 06:48:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison ) Message-Id: <199708061349.JAA28549 > Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 08:48:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Zonn "RE: omega race drawings" (Aug 5, 11:10am) References: <199708051806.OAA18763 > X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: omega race drawings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Aug 5, 11:10am, Zonn wrote: > Subject: RE: omega race drawings > At 10:17 AM 8/5/97 -0700, you wrote: > >G'day folks, > > > >I have an interesting proposition for a spin knob! > > > >Let's start with a Discs of Tron "up and down" spin knob. If you don't > >push the knob up or down, then it acts just like a spin knob....you have > >to keep spinning it to keep turning. If you push down while turning the > >spin knob, then it acts just like Clay and Al have been describing. To > >be safe, I'd suggest that pulling up on the knob stops all activity. > >What do you think? > > > > Steven S Ozdemir > > sso > > > >ps - If this idea takes off, I'm going to be really annoyed that both of > >my Discs of Tron control panels went to Mark J in the trade for that > >wonderful 4 player Eliminator cocktail. > > Clay's last idea sounds like the most do-able to me, though I can see that > because of the free spin past the limits being ignored you can get yourself > to a point where you hand is all tweaked in one direction that is now > considered the new center. > > But even if you get something working I'll bet I can kick all your asses > using while you guys fiddle around with trying > to get a spin knob to emulate subtle taps on the direction keys, when trying > to regain control after being blasted towards the "Bagel of Death" in > Eliminator! > > Just out of curiosity isn't it cheaper and easier to wire up 2 $0.50 arcade > buttons than to find and program a Discs of Tron spin knob to act like them? > :^> ? > > -Zonn (the confused) Way to go Zonn! Throw more hardware at the problem, not this crazy "emulation" stuff! Keep it simple. - Mark "has all the DoT encoder wheels he needs" Jenison From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 09:44:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 09:44:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199708061647.MAA06983@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: omega race drawings To: vectorlist Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 12:47:12 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199708061349.JAA28549 > from "Mark Jenison" at Aug 6, 97 08:48:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist > > But even if you get something working I'll bet I can kick all your asses > > using while you guys fiddle around with trying > > to get a spin knob to emulate subtle taps on the direction keys, when trying > > to regain control after being blasted towards the "Bagel of Death" in > > Eliminator! > > > > Just out of curiosity isn't it cheaper and easier to wire up 2 $0.50 arcade > > buttons than to find and program a Discs of Tron spin knob to act like them? You've got a good point Zonn. But have you ever seen a cabinet that's been wired with controls for a bunch of different things? They tend to get ugly. I find the idea of a spinner, thrust and fire very appealing unless it turns out hard to play (which you point out may well be the case :-) Anyway, minimal controls is very nice looking if it works. -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 10:04:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 10:04:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 10:10:40 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: omega race drawings Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >You've got a good point Zonn. But have you ever seen a cabinet that's been >wired with controls for a bunch of different things? They tend to get ugly. >I find the idea of a spinner, thrust and fire very appealing unless it >turns out hard to play (which you point out may well be the case :-) >Anyway, minimal controls is very nice looking if it works. Here's a thought. Last week I finished up a hacking session (that I even got *paid* for!) that consisted of modifying Astro Blaster (on the G-80 platform) so that the fuel guage doesn't go down as fast and the laser cools off faster. Given Al's ability to view G-80 program RAM in emulation, I bet it wouldn't take him long to tell me where in RAM the ship rotation values are stored for Space Fury and Eliminator... A little disassembly and some tinkering later I bet it wouldn't be very hard to make Space Fury (for sure) and Eliminator (maybe a little harder) *support* a spinner knob for positioning a ship... ;-) (Sure, it's messing with a "classic", but from past experience Astro Blaster is a lot more fun without the damn fuel guage running out on you no matter what you do in Sector 4...) I think Space Fury with the spinner would be neato. (I was thinking of trying the same thing with Asteroids too.) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 10:15:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 10:15:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender jenison ) Message-Id: <199708061715.NAA23572 > Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 12:14:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Clay Cowgill "Re: omega race drawings" (Aug 6, 10:10am) References: <199708061705.NAA22570 > X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: omega race drawings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Aug 6, 10:10am, Clay Cowgill wrote: > Subject: Re: omega race drawings > > Given Al's ability to view G-80 program RAM in emulation, I bet it wouldn't > take him long to tell me where in RAM the ship rotation values are stored > for Space Fury and Eliminator... A little disassembly and some tinkering > later I bet it wouldn't be very hard to make Space Fury (for sure) and > Eliminator (maybe a little harder) *support* a spinner knob for positioning > a ship... ;-) > > (Sure, it's messing with a "classic", but from past experience Astro > Blaster is a lot more fun without the damn fuel guage running out on you no > matter what you do in Sector 4...) I think Space Fury with the spinner > would be neato. > > (I was thinking of trying the same thing with Asteroids too.) The thing to remember is that in Eliminator (and RipOff) that when you are thrusting, you are not "rotating", you are TURNING. This is unlike Zektor, Asteroids, Space Fury, etc where the ability to rotate is not effected by the momentum of the ship, or whether thrust is on or off. I don't know how that effects your design, but I thought I'd mention it. :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 10:22:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 09:44:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199708061647.MAA06983@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: omega race drawings To: vectorlist Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 12:47:12 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199708061349.JAA28549 > from "Mark Jenison" at Aug 6, 97 08:48:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist > > But even if you get something working I'll bet I can kick all your asses > > using while you guys fiddle around with trying > > to get a spin knob to emulate subtle taps on the direction keys, when trying > > to regain control after being blasted towards the "Bagel of Death" in > > Eliminator! > > > > Just out of curiosity isn't it cheaper and easier to wire up 2 $0.50 arcade > > buttons than to find and program a Discs of Tron spin knob to act like them? You've got a good point Zonn. But have you ever seen a cabinet that's been wired with controls for a bunch of different things? They tend to get ugly. I find the idea of a spinner, thrust and fire very appealing unless it turns out hard to play (which you point out may well be the case :-) Anyway, minimal controls is very nice looking if it works. -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 10:27:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 10:27:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 10:27:30 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: omega race drawings Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist I have an Asteroids disassembly, so I can tell you where the ship position is stored.. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 10:58:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 10:58:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 13:57:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist Subject: Asteroids Schematic ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist While I now have my Asteroids Cocktail working, I have a spare non-working board I would like to fix. I didn't see Asteroids schematics on jrok's page. If someone could point me to them, or has them they could scan, I'ld apprecaite it. I'm guessing it's something simple. The screen starts out as a jumble of vectors in the lower left corner, and expands to full size as the board heats up. The test pattern, however, does not make sharp corners on the left/right sides. This leads me to suspect a transistor in the video driver. On the other hand, it looks like someone has already tried (and failed) to fix this board. One of the pair of 470uf 25v caps in the video circuit has already been replaced -- with a 100v that has been shoehorned in. And a ROM is missing -- but one thing at a time. -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 11:00:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:00:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:00:51 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Asteroids Schematic ? Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist The older Atari vector schematics are no fun to scan in. They were on 24 * 36" paper. I'll see if I can at least get the DVG section finished in the next day or so. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 11:05:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:05:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:05:19 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: asteroids schematic Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist in the mean time, you might want to take a look at the Omega Race schematic at www.spies.com/arcade/simulation/schematics. the omega race vector generator is almost identical to the atari DVG. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 11:07:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:07:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:13:57 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: omega race drawings Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >I have an Asteroids disassembly, so I can tell you where the ship >position is stored.. Hee-hee. Cool. Give me an address and I'll see what I can do. :-) (Any chance you can do the same with Space Fury? I'm all setup to code on the G-80, so that's easier to play with...) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 11:12:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:12:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:12:26 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: omega race drawings Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist shouldn't be too difficult. I found the location that maintains the number of credits left in Zektor, which is how I got the screen shots of all of the levels (i'm not very good at playing games). after zonn mentioned the difference between ripoff/eliminator and all the other rotl/r games probably explains why i'm even worse at those two than the others... i've never been able to get the hang of turning on those games! From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 11:20:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:20:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: omega race drawings Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:18:13 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist G'day folks, Doug Jeffery's has done extensive work on disassembling Asteroids. I strongly suggest that you discuss the project with him to avoid redoing the same work! Steven S Ozdemir sso >---------- >From: aek ] >Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 1997 12:27 PM >To: vectorlist >Subject: Re: omega race drawings > >I have an Asteroids disassembly, so I can tell you where the ship >position is stored.. > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 11:24:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:24:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 14:24:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Asteroids Schematic ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Al Kossow wrote: > The older Atari vector schematics are no fun to scan in. They were > on 24 * 36" paper. I'll see if I can at least get the DVG section > finished in the next day or so. Now I see why it hasn't been scanned already. Thanks ! -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 11:56:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 10:15:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender jenison ) Message-Id: <199708061715.NAA23572 > Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 12:14:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Clay Cowgill "Re: omega race drawings" (Aug 6, 10:10am) References: <199708061705.NAA22570 > X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: omega race drawings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Aug 6, 10:10am, Clay Cowgill wrote: > Subject: Re: omega race drawings > > Given Al's ability to view G-80 program RAM in emulation, I bet it wouldn't > take him long to tell me where in RAM the ship rotation values are stored > for Space Fury and Eliminator... A little disassembly and some tinkering > later I bet it wouldn't be very hard to make Space Fury (for sure) and > Eliminator (maybe a little harder) *support* a spinner knob for positioning > a ship... ;-) > > (Sure, it's messing with a "classic", but from past experience Astro > Blaster is a lot more fun without the damn fuel guage running out on you no > matter what you do in Sector 4...) I think Space Fury with the spinner > would be neato. > > (I was thinking of trying the same thing with Asteroids too.) The thing to remember is that in Eliminator (and RipOff) that when you are thrusting, you are not "rotating", you are TURNING. This is unlike Zektor, Asteroids, Space Fury, etc where the ability to rotate is not effected by the momentum of the ship, or whether thrust is on or off. I don't know how that effects your design, but I thought I'd mention it. :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 12:07:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 10:04:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 10:10:40 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: omega race drawings Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >You've got a good point Zonn. But have you ever seen a cabinet that's been >wired with controls for a bunch of different things? They tend to get ugly. >I find the idea of a spinner, thrust and fire very appealing unless it >turns out hard to play (which you point out may well be the case :-) >Anyway, minimal controls is very nice looking if it works. Here's a thought. Last week I finished up a hacking session (that I even got *paid* for!) that consisted of modifying Astro Blaster (on the G-80 platform) so that the fuel guage doesn't go down as fast and the laser cools off faster. Given Al's ability to view G-80 program RAM in emulation, I bet it wouldn't take him long to tell me where in RAM the ship rotation values are stored for Space Fury and Eliminator... A little disassembly and some tinkering later I bet it wouldn't be very hard to make Space Fury (for sure) and Eliminator (maybe a little harder) *support* a spinner knob for positioning a ship... ;-) (Sure, it's messing with a "classic", but from past experience Astro Blaster is a lot more fun without the damn fuel guage running out on you no matter what you do in Sector 4...) I think Space Fury with the spinner would be neato. (I was thinking of trying the same thing with Asteroids too.) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 14:26:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 14:25:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 14:25:29 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: G-05 monitors Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist I just got some mail from Frazee saying that he has a bunch of G-05's that aren't too burned in. Do you remember looking at any of these when you were up there Joe? I've started working on a little cine -> G05 adapter board using modern (.ie still in production) parts, duplicating the DAC/switch/Filter of the Cine monitor and thought it might be worth picking up a couple if they were cheap enough, and weren't toast. On a somewhat related note, it looks like the LF13201 switches used in the AVG are out of production now, along with the LF13331's used in the Cine, so folks might want to start watching for old stock in surplus places.. If someone has found plug-in replacement, it would be nice to know about it. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 14:37:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 14:37:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 14:43:49 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: G-05 monitors Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >I just got some mail from Frazee saying that he has a bunch of G-05's that >aren't too burned in. Do you remember looking at any of these when you were >up there Joe? I've started working on a little cine -> G05 adapter board >using modern (.ie still in production) parts, duplicating the DAC/switch/Filter >of the Cine monitor and thought it might be worth picking up a couple if >they were cheap enough, and weren't toast. The ones I saw looked to be in pretty good shape. I should have loaded up on stuff when I was there (we were already moving a remote office back here by truck in the first place) but getting the stuff from KC to Lexington, MO with my rented Neon wasn't the easiest thing in the world... >On a somewhat related note, it looks like the LF13201 switches used in the AVG >are out of production now, along with the LF13331's used in the Cine, so folks >might want to start watching for old stock in surplus places.. Yep. Jameco has had them on closeout for a while now. (the 13201's anyway) I think I bought about half their stock on and off over the last couple months. (I order a couple dozen every time I order something else. :-) Last I checked they were down to about 100 pieces. Cheap though-- $.89 each. The 13201's should work in place of 13331's with the addition of an inverter on some of the control lines... >If someone has found plug-in replacement, it would be nice to know about it. Maxim makes some switches that look like candidates, but I don't think they're pinout compatible. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 14:49:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 14:49:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 97 14:54 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970807025132.7087f1d4@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist From: Zonn Subject: Re: G-05 monitors Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist At 02:25 PM 8/6/97 -0700, you wrote: > >I just got some mail from Frazee saying that he has a bunch of G-05's that >aren't too burned in. Do you remember looking at any of these when you were >up there Joe? I've started working on a little cine -> G05 adapter board >using modern (.ie still in production) parts, duplicating the DAC/switch/Filter >of the Cine monitor and thought it might be worth picking up a couple if >they were cheap enough, and weren't toast. > >On a somewhat related note, it looks like the LF13201 switches used in the AVG >are out of production now, along with the LF13331's used in the Cine, so folks >might want to start watching for old stock in surplus places.. Those things (the LF13331's) are on the top of my "Most likely to die" list. The last time I looked Digikey claimed to have 600+ instock, I bought 10 so make that 590+. The're $5.35 a piece but if you have as many of these monitors as I do it's not so bad of an insurance policy. >If someone has found plug-in replacement, it would be nice to know about it. Cinematronics did have a replacement for this part since even at the time of manufactoring they were hard to come by. It required a daughter board, but according to a tech "he thinks" it was to drop some voltages, and change pinouts. None of this does anyone any good just yet, because I can't remember the name of the part. (I can get the name.) Either way I saw that there is a description of the circuit on that StarTech(or something) CD they want $300 or $400 dollars for... All said and done if you're re-designing the board this should be an easy part to replace, (I wouldn't use either of the above) it just needs to switch positive and negative voltages. The current handling is not great, and can easily be calculated (I would if I had a schematic here in front of me). -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 14:59:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 14:58:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 14:58:53 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: G-05 monitors Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Zonn said: All said and done if you're re-designing the board this should be an easy part to replace, (I wouldn't use either of the above) it just needs to switch positive and negative voltages. The current handling is not great, and can easily be calculated (I would if I had a schematic here in front of me). ..actually, I had meant to ask about this. The deflection voltages are bipolar with the center of the screen at 0V,0V ? As long as I was hacking, I was going to add a deflection timer too, so if the incoming X or Y values were off scale for too long, it would shut down the deflection amps and turn on a spot killer. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 15:00:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 15:00:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 15:00:44 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: G-05 monitors Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist ..replying to my own reply actually, a spot killer/deflection protection circuit would be handy to put in series with the existing Cine monitors. I assume that the deflection amps go full-scale positve from the DAC inputs floating? From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 15:02:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 15:02:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: G-05 monitors Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 15:00:19 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist G'day folks, I got paper copies of the Star Tech journals from 1978 to 1981 if you'd like me to look for that circuit? Steven S Ozdemir sso >---------- >From: Zonn[SMTP:zonn@concentric.net] >Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 1997 4:54 PM >To: vectorlist >Subject: Re: G-05 monitors > >At 02:25 PM 8/6/97 -0700, you wrote: >> >>I just got some mail from Frazee saying that he has a bunch of G-05's that >>aren't too burned in. Do you remember looking at any of these when you were >>up there Joe? I've started working on a little cine -> G05 adapter board >>using modern (.ie still in production) parts, duplicating the >>DAC/switch/Filter >>of the Cine monitor and thought it might be worth picking up a couple if >>they were cheap enough, and weren't toast. >> >>On a somewhat related note, it looks like the LF13201 switches used in the >>AVG >>are out of production now, along with the LF13331's used in the Cine, so >>folks >>might want to start watching for old stock in surplus places.. > >Those things (the LF13331's) are on the top of my "Most likely to die" list. > >The last time I looked Digikey claimed to have 600+ instock, I bought 10 so >make that 590+. The're $5.35 a piece but if you have as many of these >monitors as I do it's not so bad of an insurance policy. > >>If someone has found plug-in replacement, it would be nice to know about it. > >Cinematronics did have a replacement for this part since even at the time of >manufactoring they were hard to come by. It required a daughter board, but >according to a tech "he thinks" it was to drop some voltages, and change >pinouts. None of this does anyone any good just yet, because I can't >remember the name of the part. (I can get the name.) > >Either way I saw that there is a description of the circuit on that >StarTech(or something) CD they want $300 or $400 dollars for... > >All said and done if you're re-designing the board this should be an easy >part to replace, (I wouldn't use either of the above) it just needs to >switch positive and negative voltages. The current handling is not great, >and can easily be calculated (I would if I had a schematic here in front of >me). > >-Zonn > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 15:12:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 15:12:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 15:19:21 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: G-05 monitors Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >All said and done if you're re-designing the board this should be an easy >part to replace, (I wouldn't use either of the above) it just needs to >switch positive and negative voltages. The current handling is not great, >and can easily be calculated (I would if I had a schematic here in front >of me). Can the 4066 or 4016 type CMOS switches handle positive and negative voltages? I remember these were in the old DVG output stages for Atari stuff, but then they switched to the 13201 during the AVG era. I never really looked into why they'd do that. (I assume the 13201 handled a wider voltage swing or something.) Anyone know the scoop on that? (The 4066 in particular seems very common...) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 15:16:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 15:16:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970806151741.00af5a40 > X-Sender: wsharp X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 15:17:41 -0700 To: vectorlist From: Werner Sharp Subject: Re: G-05 monitors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist At 02:25 PM 8/6/97 -0700, you wrote: > >I just got some mail from Frazee saying that he has a bunch of G-05's that >aren't too burned in. Do you remember looking at any of these when you were >up there Joe? I've started working on a little cine -> G05 adapter board >using modern (.ie still in production) parts, duplicating the DAC/switch/Filter >of the Cine monitor and thought it might be worth picking up a couple if >they were cheap enough, and weren't toast. I ordered a couple of these about a month ago. Except for the incredible amount of dust on them they seem to be in really good shape. One is still buried in the copious amounts of peanuts he packed it in but the other one is virtually burn-in free. When I took it out of the box I actually thought it looked like a brand new tube. Your results may very: I bugged him about giving me good ones since he screwed up one of my other orders. I paid $40 each I think plus shipping. Werner Sharp wsharp or sharp@pacbell.net Anyone have a Lunar Lander control panel FS/T? Please! Possibly FS (Oakland, CA): Omega Race (DOA), Asteroids in Lunar Lander cab, Space Duel, 2 Player Football, I, Robot (in a Firefox cab), Liberator (might be sold already) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 15:25:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 15:25:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 97 15:30 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970807032801.70879858@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist From: Zonn Subject: Re: G-05 monitors Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist At 02:58 PM 8/6/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Zonn said: > >All said and done if you're re-designing the board this should be an easy >part to replace, (I wouldn't use either of the above) it just needs to >switch positive and negative voltages. The current handling is not great, >and can easily be calculated (I would if I had a schematic here in front of me). > > >..actually, I had meant to ask about this. The deflection voltages are bipolar >with the center of the screen at 0V,0V ? That's correct. I'm sure that's true of all X/Y, since 0,0 means zero current through the yokes. This is what you want when your not drawing anything. On the other hand the software sees 0,0 as the lower left hand corner of the screen so there is some offseting going on in the DACs which I've never bothered to look into that you'll need to re-create. To set the CRT trace (and therefor the value going into the X/Y deflection amps) to 0,0, the X-DAC would be loaded with 512, and the Y-DAC with 384. >As long as I was hacking, I was going to add a deflection timer too, so if the >incoming X or Y values were off scale for too long, it would shut down the >deflection amps and turn on a spot killer. The color card did a very nice job of *clipping* the X/Y signals. It took them a couple more OP-AMPs (and power transistors) to do it, but they do a *hard* clip of the signal right past the edge of the monitor. Tempest sure could use something like this in those zoom modes that fry deflection circuits! If you ever plan on building a Color Card convertor you're going to need to recreate these circuits since Boxing Bugs intentionally overdrives the X/Y signals, since it was known no damage would result, and software clipping is slow, and a pain. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 15:37:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 15:37:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 97 15:42 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970807033943.61ef9e98@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist From: Zonn Subject: RE: G-05 monitors Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist At 03:00 PM 8/6/97 -0700, you wrote: >G'day folks, > >I got paper copies of the Star Tech journals from 1978 to 1981 if you'd >like me to look for that circuit? Very cool! I'd love to see a copy! I can't remember the year, but if you do a search on Star Tech, and Cinematronics I'll bet it pops right up. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Aug 6 15:42:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 15:42:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 97 15:47 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970807034426.4ad7e2f2@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist From: Zonn Subject: Re: G-05 monitors Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist At 03:00 PM 8/6/97 -0700, you wrote: >..replying to my own reply > >actually, a spot killer/deflection protection circuit would be handy to put >in series with the existing Cine monitors. I assume that the deflection amps >go full-scale positve from the DAC inputs floating? Yeah, that's what the +/- 25v circuit breakers were for. If the CPU card is dead (or the monitor cable install backwards), the inputs float and as soon as they overcurrent the circuit breakers blow. This genuis