From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 07:28:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 07:26:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender jenison ) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:24:26 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9712010924.ZM9787@calcite> In-Reply-To: aek (Al Kossow) "Re: Zektor" (Nov 27, 10:25pm) References: <199711280637.BAA22520 > X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Zektor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Nov 27, 10:25pm, Al Kossow wrote: > Subject: Re: Zektor > Gaymond Lee said in a recent RGVAC posting that > an operator he knows has one. I believe Gaymond was refering to a marquee, though, not the entire game (it would be best to have Gaymond clarify this, though). Zektor probably came in a generic converta-cabinets (per the pictures), so for all we know they were all converted to something more popular. Unfortunately since the controls were not useful for any games made later, the control panels were probably junked/converted :-(. So the rarest pieces left to find are a control panel and monitor bezel. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 08:37:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:36:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199712011638.LAA01042@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Italian Cinematronics Games To: vectorlist Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:38:45 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: from "Al Kossow" at Nov 28, 97 10:29:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist > I haven't tried playing them to see if there are game play > differences. Got it running in another window right now. Looks & feels exactly the same as Star Castle except the copyright is replaced by: c 1980 elettronolo and for the other set: 1 89 Opccn mottoeiss Strange... Did they do this in 1989? BTW, both versions work just fine on our emulator: http://www.oakland.edu/~phkahler -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 10:37:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:36:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:37:40 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Star Wars / ESB reset problem Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Tracked down a weird problem over the weekend. I had a Star Wars boardset that just would NOT accept the ESB kit-- I had written it off as a fluke, when another guy had the same problem. Not good. I had him send me his problem boardset and I set out to figure out what the problem was. To make a long story short, for boards that have a weird "reset a few seconds after the gameplay starts" problem, the solution appears to be replacing the 74LS244's on the address bus. It's some sort of speed or bus loading issue (which kind-of explains why swapping EPROMs out sometimes fixed it in some cases). I'm more inclined to go with the bus-drive scenario, since replacing things with *faster* parts doesn't always help. Replacing the '244s fixed it two out of two times though. -Clay (This was a really screwy problem-- the boards would work with Star Wars EPROMs just fine. Adding the ESB daughtercard but keeping the rest of the EPROMs as Star Wars worked just fine. Swapping out even just one or two of the Star Wars EPROMs with 27C256's (programmed with the same code) would result in the "reset problem". Weird. Changing brands/speeds of EPROMs didn't help. Changing out the '244s on the bus fixed it...) Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 11:04:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:59:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:58:46 -0700 To: vectorlist From: jeffh (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: Some vector games for sale... Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist John, Do you have any battlezone parts? I'm looking for a control panel and a b&w xy monitor. What do you want for your bz cabaret and space duel cocktail? -jeff >Hmm let's see, what to clear out. >Atari Space Duel cocktail >Atari Tempest Cocktail >Atari Battlezone Cabaret >Atari Battlezone fullsize (!) >Sega Star Trek in a Tempset U/R cabinet. >Exidy Tailgunner II in a cockpit >Atari Star Wars in a cockpit >Cinematronics/Vectorbeam Barrier (Jwelser has his eye on this one) > >There must be one or two more hiding here... >I really need the space here, and so am open to offers. This stuff all >works, perhaps a package deal??? > >John :-#)# > > John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 > Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) > mailto:jrr > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." jeffh Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 11:58:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:58:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: XREF on Tempest? Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:57:57 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist G'day, Replaced all four opamps (TL082's) with no change. The bottom half of the Tempest picture still isn't being displayed? As I've said before, I've plugged this board set into another Tempest to verify that this is not a monitor problem. Can anyone explain what XREF and YREF does in the vector generator section of the non-Star Wars Atari color XY's? If these serve as references in the vector generator section of the PCB, could it be possible that these are voltages at a fixed value that XOUT and YOUT use as a baseline? If so, maybe my problem is that XREF is too high or too low and why everything on the bottom half of the screen is scrunched into a couple line? I should say that I can see "details" in those couple lines showing me playing games....but, oh, is it hard to see the bad guys coming up that half of the tube! 8^) 8^) 8^) I sure wish I had an oscilliscope to debug this.... Steven S Ozdemir sso From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 12:08:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:08:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:09:28 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Sega Multigame = Proto's OK! Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Hi all! Good news-- I got the Sega Multigame PCB's (and the "single player control panel interface" replacements) in before the holiday so I had time to test everything out. The replacement "Single Player Control Panel Interface" ("spinner interface") came up working the first try. *whew* The Multigame Daughtercard was *really* close. The netlist was exactly right, but I had messed up the clk and enable lines on the latches on the schematic. Oh, well, nothing a couple wires didn't fix. It's working just fine now. I'll put some pictures up on my webpage later today. So... I've got five or six of theses ready to go right now and I'll re-order the rest of the boards (with the latches "fixed") later this week, so... "Send me your money!" (Just my little tribute to _Suicidal_Tendencies_ there... ;-) I'm going to pull a fast one and raise the prices on each of these $1. (Covers some extra drill time at the board house I didn't count on, and pays for good dual-wipe sockets for all IC's.) Sega Multigame Kit (fully assembled with sockets) Includes: Multigame Daughtercard, Security Plug, decode PROM, manual, etc. $76 + $7 shipping = $83 each Sega "Spinner" Interface (fully assembled with sockets) Includes: Single Player Control Panel Interface, manual $21 + $3 shipping = $24 each I'll ship the Daughtercards DHL (1 or 2-day depending on where you are) and the spinner boards USPS. (If you order them together I'll send everything DHL.) International shipping (based on experience with the ESB kits) is $40 for DHL pretty much anywhere, and it'll make it in a few days. So, send your checks or MO's or whatever to: Clay Cowgill 109 SE 175th Ave Vancouver, WA 98683 If it's not too much trouble, please print out this order form and include it (filled out) with your check or Money Order. (It'll help me keep from getting them mixed up with ESB kit orders...) The answers to the questions will help me when writing new software for the daughtercard... The current software load on the Daughtercard is: Star Trek Space Fury (uses Star Trek control panel) Eliminator (uses Star Trek control panel) Tac/Scan (uses Star Trek control panel) Zektor (uses Star Trek control panel) Eliminator (original controls) Eliminator 4-player (original controls) ???? There is one full "bank" free on the EPROM right now-- maybe I'll put Space Fury with "original" controls in there... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sega Multigame/Interface Order Form Ship to: _____________________________________ _____________________________________ _____________________________________ Quantity Price with Shipping ------------------------------------------------------------------- [ ] Sega Multigame Kit $83 [ ] Replacement "Spinner" Interface $24 Total: [ ] Questions: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Will this be installed in: [ ] ...a Sega/G80 cabinet (GO-8 monitor) [ ] ...an Atari cabinet (Wells Gardner or Amplifone monitor) [ ] ...other Can you burn your own EPROMs (27C040 or 27C080)? [ ] Yes [ ] No Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 15:08:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:08:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:07:58 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: more info on euro star castle boards Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist here's a bit more info clay, will you be making any more boards for anything in the near future, now that I have a design for a cine -> asteroids monitor converter :-) >the boards are actually star castle, not rip off. do you happen I knew that, I hope I didn't give you any other ideas? >to know what company OpccnMottoeiss is ?=20 >one of the board sets was from Elettronolo, who I assume was >the Italian company that the manual goes with, but I didn't >know who the other company was Tha manual is the one going with the unmarked (not Elettronolo) PCB. It (the unmarked) belonged in a Zaccaria cabinet named Space Fortress, fancy artwork on the sides etc. The other one was ripped out of another = cab (that I didn't see) named Stellar Castle (90% sure about the name - it = was 'stellar' anyhow), unknown brand. On a sticker on the power PCB for the Zaccaria version (or next to it) it said something like 'Special powersupply, only use with Space Fortress = and Space Pirates'. I tried one of the (the Space Fortress) on an Asteroids monitor and it worked like clockwork. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 15:36:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:36:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Italian Cinematronics Game Boards Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 23:37:54 GMT Message-ID: <348446ee.861218546 > References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Fri, 28 Nov 1997 12:53:26 -0800 (PST), aek (Al Kossow) wrote: >The REALLY interesting thing is this >company didn't use the Cine monitor design THE ANALOG >SECTION IS ON THE SOUND BOARD! and they designed their >own power supply and X/Y monitor (at least the monitor >schematic has all SGS part numbers for the transistors) This sounds like the Japanese clone of Star Castle. Cinematronics sued to have all these machines destroyed, and won, so there's not very many around. According to a an ex-Cinematronics technician, it was a better, more reliable design. One of the biggest reliability problems Cinematronics had was the sensitive analog parts being blown by HV discharges as the monitor was powered on/off. Moving the analog section off the monitor was good for reliability. Though I'm sure the reason the Japanese did so was to allow them to use off the shelf X/Y monitors. It's cheaper to design a PC-board than to go into production with a new monitor (you know, winding special purpose yokes, etc.) Of course that doesn't explain this company if they went through the trouble off designing their own monitors. Was this game *really* popular enough to design your own monitor for? And still turn a profit? BTW: I played both version on my emulator for a while, they both seem to play like the original (Version 1) of Star Castle, with nothing but the titles changed. All the score and game play is still in English, looks like a hack to me. I wonder if Cinematronics made the hack, or whether this was done illegally. I would think it would have to have been done by someone in the know, I can't imagine reverse engineering the whole CPU board just to change a title. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ concentric . net -------| // \\/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 15:38:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:38:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:39:57 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: more info on euro star castle boards Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >here's a bit more info > >clay, will you be making any more boards for anything >in the near future, now that I have a design for a >cine -> asteroids monitor converter :-) I'll make it a point to. (I want one! :-) There's some stuff I want to do still (raster monitor tester and the "PCB tester" board come to mind) so we should be able to include it with something else. Can I get the schematic someplace? (I wasn't paying attention to the earlier e-mail.) As long as I get the schematic entered in OrCAD Capture, outputting a board in Layout Plus is getting easier and easier. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 15:43:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:43:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:43:12 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Italian Cinematronics Game Boards Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist "I can't imagine reverse engineering the whole CPU board just to change a title." The CPU boards are copies of the Cine board, they redid the sound/vector generator board. Looking at the drawings, the CPU schematics are copies of the Cine schematics, while the sound board follow euro schematic drawing conventions. I'll try to get these scanned in tonight.. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 15:56:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:56:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: more info on euro star castle boards Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:56:18 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist G'day folks, I was contacted about three years ago by someone in Italy who has a Stellar Castle board set that was suppose to be a Star Castle copy. He tried to send me a copy of the EPROMs, but I think they were corrupted during reading or in transit since the images were several bytes shy of the 2048 bytes that I'd expect. Can't say that I've heard of Space Fortress except for in KLOV...and I'd trust that database as far as I can throw it! To hear that Space Fortress is a Star Castle copy makes perfect sense to me. Is Al serious about his Cinematronics to Asteroids monitor converter? If so, I hadn't realized how much progress had been made while I was on sabatical. I think a "Cine to Atari" adapter would open up Cinematronics game to alot more collectors if a document showed them how to populate a PCB with a couple of chips to mate the Cinematronics motherboard to an Atari BW XY cabinet. Of course, the Cinematronics sound board needs odd voltages so that would have to be considered too... Steven S Ozdemir sso ps - Does anyone want to speculate what Space Pirates was a copy of? How about Star Hawk?? >---------- >From: aek ] >Sent: Monday, December 01, 1997 3:07 PM >To: vectorlist >Subject: more info on euro star castle boards > > >here's a bit more info > >clay, will you be making any more boards for anything >in the near future, now that I have a design for a >cine -> asteroids monitor converter :-) > >>the boards are actually star castle, not rip off. do you happen >I knew that, I hope I didn't give you any other ideas? > >>to know what company OpccnMottoeiss is ?=20 > > >>one of the board sets was from Elettronolo, who I assume was >>the Italian company that the manual goes with, but I didn't >>know who the other company was > >Tha manual is the one going with the unmarked (not Elettronolo) PCB. >It (the unmarked) belonged in a Zaccaria cabinet named Space Fortress, >fancy artwork on the sides etc. The other one was ripped out of another = >cab >(that I didn't see) named Stellar Castle (90% sure about the name - it = >was >'stellar' anyhow), unknown brand. > >On a sticker on the power PCB for the Zaccaria version (or next to it) it >said something like 'Special powersupply, only use with Space Fortress = >and >Space Pirates'. I tried one of the (the Space Fortress) on an Asteroids >monitor and it worked like clockwork. > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 16:04:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:04:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:04:14 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: RE: more info on euro star castle boards Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist "Is Al serious about his Cinematronics to Asteroids monitor converter? If so, I hadn't realized how much progress had been made while I was on sabatical." Clay and I are quite serious. I started poking at the design about two months ago (just before I got sucked into the time sink of 70's B&W raster games, but that's my own fault..) and I'm really interested now that two different designs on PC boards were given to me. I just looked at the schematics, and it turns out the design that used DAC80's used a 4016 analog switch instead of the National LF part. I'll have to trace out the other design that used National DAC1221's and an LF switch. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 16:06:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:06:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Italian Cinematronics Game Boards Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 00:08:27 GMT Message-ID: <34864ffe.863538372 > References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:43:12 -0800 (PST), aek (Al Kossow) wrote: >"I can't imagine reverse engineering the whole >CPU board just to change a title." > >The CPU boards are copies of the Cine board, they redid >the sound/vector generator board. Looking at the drawings, >the CPU schematics are copies of the Cine schematics, >while the sound board follow euro schematic drawing >conventions. > >I'll try to get these scanned in tonight.. What I meant, is that I couldn't imagine a company going through all the trouble of reverse engineering the full instruction set just so they could hack in a new title over the old one. More likely somebody associated with Cinematronics (or Vectorbeam) made the change, was it done legally? -- who knows. The original Japanese clone used some and/or/xor logic to blank the Cinematronics copyright notice. Cutting a trace to disable this "blanking" circuit, caused the Cinematronics copyright to "re-appear" on the Japanese boards. This is what they did in court to win the lawsuit. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ concentric . net -------| // \\/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 16:27:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:27:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:28:30 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Vector Monitor HV power... Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Over the holiday weekend I had plenty of time to play with "stuff"... One of the things I did was finally force myself to understand how the HV supply of monitors works (and to design a "new" one as a test). I concentrated on the Wells Gardner HV design and the GO-7 power section (since those two use the same CRT). It looks to me as though the only reason we're using "custom" HV transformers at all is that they're insistant on using the differential +-25V DC power supply. The only big difference from most of the "raster" type power supplies (other than not being triggered off the Horizontal retrace speed) is that the transformer that triggers the Horizontal Output Transistor sits with one leg at chassis ground on a Raster where as the Wells Gardner/Atari monitor designs hold one leg at -DC rail. (I assume that having the +-DC supplies were just an artifact of the deflection system, so rather than bring 120VAC out to the HV cage they just used the DC supplies already available.) It looks to me that the "special" windings of the vector HV transformers really only increase the turns ratio to make up for the 50-60V peak to peak output of the HOT instead of a ~120V P-P on a Raster. (So in theory, if you replaced an amplifone HV unit with a GO-7 HV transformer-- wired up so everything matches correctly-- you'd get about 50% of the HV you'd want. I run my Wells Gardners at about 16KV-- I wonder if you couldn't just turn up the "HV adjust" a bunch and get somewhere close to 16KV for a usable display... :-) Now that I "get it" it looks really easy to make a HV power supply for an Amplifone or Wells Gardner Vector monitor. All you do is take 120VAC and run it through the DC rectification front end (like a GO-7) that gives you about 120DC. Instead of all the horizontal retrace stuff and whatnot you trigger a couple transistors off of a 555-timer circuit like the Wells Gardner uses. The transistors kick a little trigger transformer (the Wells Gardner/Amplifone used step-down transformers to pick up more current) that triggers the HOT which applies the potential of the +120VDC rail to the HV transformer. Screen and grid voltages just come off a resistor divider network. That's all there is to it. Basically you could make a replacement HV supply using parts from a GO-7 with no problems-- and you wouldn't need to worry about keeping the deflection yoke and the rest of the "raster" crap attached to the chassis. I bet the whole thing would cost less than half of a new Amplifone transformer... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 16:31:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:31:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:32:50 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: RE: more info on euro star castle boards Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >Clay and I are quite serious. I started poking at the design about two >months ago (just before I got sucked into the time sink of 70's B&W >raster games, but that's my own fault..) and I'm really interested >now that two different designs on PC boards were given to me. And I've got the Sega stuff pretty much wrapped up now, so it's this or Nightmare next... :-) >I just looked at the schematics, and it turns out the design that used >DAC80's used a 4016 analog switch instead of the National LF part. >I'll have to trace out the other design that used National DAC1221's >and an LF switch. Anybody know why Atari got away from the 4016 and went with the LF13201 in the AVG games? My guess was that the series resistance of the 4016 was too high and gave them problems with zero'ing the caps in the integrator... Seems like I saw something (somewhere) that used a bunch of 4066's or 4016's in parallel-- presumably just to lower the series resistance. 4066's are pretty cheap and plentiful compared to their LF13xxx bretheren. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 16:37:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:37:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Vector Monitor HV power... Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 00:38:50 GMT Message-ID: <348957c8.865532991 > References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:28:30 -0800, Clay Cowgill wrote: >Over the holiday weekend I had plenty of time to play with "stuff"... = One >of the things I did was finally force myself to understand how the HV >supply of monitors works (and to design a "new" one as a test). > >I concentrated on the Wells Gardner HV design and the GO-7 power section >(since those two use the same CRT). It looks to me as though the only >reason we're using "custom" HV transformers at all is that they're >insistant on using the differential +-25V DC power supply. The only big >difference from most of the "raster" type power supplies (other than not >being triggered off the Horizontal retrace speed) is that the = transformer >that triggers the Horizontal Output Transistor sits with one leg at = chassis >ground on a Raster where as the Wells Gardner/Atari monitor designs hold >one leg at -DC rail. (I assume that having the +-DC supplies were just = an >artifact of the deflection system, so rather than bring 120VAC out to = the >HV cage they just used the DC supplies already available.) > >It looks to me that the "special" windings of the vector HV transformers >really only increase the turns ratio to make up for the 50-60V peak to = peak >output of the HOT instead of a ~120V P-P on a Raster. (So in theory, if >you replaced an amplifone HV unit with a GO-7 HV transformer-- wired up = so >everything matches correctly-- you'd get about 50% of the HV you'd want.= I >run my Wells Gardners at about 16KV-- I wonder if you couldn't just turn= up >the "HV adjust" a bunch and get somewhere close to 16KV for a usable >display... :-) > >Now that I "get it" it looks really easy to make a HV power supply for = an >Amplifone or Wells Gardner Vector monitor. All you do is take 120VAC = and >run it through the DC rectification front end (like a GO-7) that gives = you >about 120DC. Instead of all the horizontal retrace stuff and whatnot = you >trigger a couple transistors off of a 555-timer circuit like the Wells >Gardner uses. The transistors kick a little trigger transformer (the = Wells >Gardner/Amplifone used step-down transformers to pick up more current) = that >triggers the HOT which applies the potential of the +120VDC rail to the = HV >transformer. Screen and grid voltages just come off a resistor divider >network. That's all there is to it. You haven't mentioned regulation. Are you planning on using the same darlington type regulators already in use by these monitors? They should work -- assuming the replacement flybacks also have the 180 volt windings needed to drive the CRT guns (I'm assuming they must), since this is the voltage used as feedback in the regulation section of these monitors. Just wondering. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ concentric . net -------| // \\/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 16:39:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:39:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:39:46 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Vector Monitor HV power... Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist couple of things unless you can find an output winding on the atari power supply assembly, you'll need an isolation transformer on the AC line. you will have to experiment with the LC value of the primary of the chosen HV transformer to get it back in resonace without the horizontal deflection coil in the circuit, or adjust the osc frequency up (not a big deal since you don't have to run at 15khz, in fact, it would be better (noise wise) if you were supersonic) the HV on vector monitors is a few KV lower on vector monitors than raster monitors you didn't mention if you were going to make this a closed loop HV supply (with HV regulation) HV regulation is a GOOD THING. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 17:09:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:09:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:10:44 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Vector Monitor HV power... Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >couple of things > >unless you can find an output winding on the atari power supply >assembly, you'll need an isolation transformer on the AC line. True. >you will have to experiment with the LC value of the primary of >the chosen HV transformer to get it back in resonace without >the horizontal deflection coil in the circuit, or adjust the >osc frequency up (not a big deal since you don't have to run >at 15khz, in fact, it would be better (noise wise) if you were >supersonic) From the look of it, I'll just be replacing the HOSC output from the monitor's "control" IC with a similar signal from a 555. >the HV on vector monitors is a few KV lower on vector monitors >than raster monitors That's actually a good thing, IMHO. I run my monitors several KV lower than the manuals say anyway with seemingly very good results... >you didn't mention if you were going to make this a closed >loop HV supply (with HV regulation) >HV regulation is a GOOD THING. The Wells Gardner/Amplifones didn't do that did they? Wouldn't that mess with the Star Wars explosion effects? -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 17:13:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:13:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971201171157.0079e880 > X-Sender: sswazey X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 17:11:57 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Scott Swazey Subject: RE: more info on euro star castle boards In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist At 04:32 PM 12/1/97 -0800, Clay Cowgill wrote: [...] > >>I just looked at the schematics, and it turns out the design that used >>DAC80's used a 4016 analog switch instead of the National LF part. >>I'll have to trace out the other design that used National DAC1221's >>and an LF switch. > >Anybody know why Atari got away from the 4016 and went with the LF13201 in >the AVG games? My guess was that the series resistance of the 4016 was too >high and gave them problems with zero'ing the caps in the integrator... I think it's the VCC supply range. It's limited to +12V on the 4016, where as the the LF 13xxx can span +30V (-15,+15V) -Scott Scott Swazey QUALCOMM Incorporated Work: (619) 657-2419 mailto:sswazey V-209H Pager:(619) 683-5210 From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 17:35:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:34:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Vector Monitor HV power... Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 01:36:31 GMT Message-ID: <348a6295.868298427 > References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:10:44 -0800, Clay Cowgill wrote: >>couple of things >> >>unless you can find an output winding on the atari power supply >>assembly, you'll need an isolation transformer on the AC line. > >True. > >>you will have to experiment with the LC value of the primary of >>the chosen HV transformer to get it back in resonace without >>the horizontal deflection coil in the circuit, or adjust the >>osc frequency up (not a big deal since you don't have to run >>at 15khz, in fact, it would be better (noise wise) if you were >>supersonic) > > From the look of it, I'll just be replacing the HOSC output from the >monitor's "control" IC with a similar signal from a 555. > >>the HV on vector monitors is a few KV lower on vector monitors >>than raster monitors > >That's actually a good thing, IMHO. I run my monitors several KV lower >than the manuals say anyway with seemingly very good results... > >>you didn't mention if you were going to make this a closed >>loop HV supply (with HV regulation) >>HV regulation is a GOOD THING. > >The Wells Gardner/Amplifones didn't do that did they? Wouldn't that = mess >with the Star Wars explosion effects? Wells Gardner did regulate the output, based on feedback from the 180v supply. Amplifones use a completely different way of regulating their HV. At a company a few years back, we were using some tuned transformers as the basis of our computer power supplies. I can't remember what these things were called, but the effect was by running the transformer with a big capacitor on a winding on the output, the transformer would resonate , at 60hz, into total saturation. At that point, for a pretty broad range of values (70v to 190v) changing the input voltage had no effect on the output voltage. The Amplifone seems to use a very similar circuit. By running the voltage through that *magnoresonator* or whatever that coil looking thing is, combined with a specially wound HV transformer, they seem to keep the transformer/magnoresonator in saturation. This keeps a constant value on the output of the HV even with current usage changing on the HV supply. I don't even pretend to understand it, though if that *magnoresonator* thingy were describe better I'm sure the circuit could be described with some simple LC math. Either way, the amplifone's HV is also regulated. The Amplifone does fall out of regulation during the explosion scenes. If you look at the +/-24v regulators used to regulate the inputs you'll see they are bypassed with 50 ohm resistors. During the explosions, the 7824/7924 could not supply the amount of current needed. These resistor supply the additional amount of current during current peaks, though when they kick in, regulation is lost. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ concentric . net -------| // \\/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 18:07:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:07:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:08:50 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Pictures up... Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist If anyone wants a peek at the Sega Multigame boards, take a look at: http://www.wwwpro.com/clay/sega_multigame.html -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 18:15:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:15:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:15:13 -0600 (CST) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: "'vectorlist > Subject: Re: XREF on Tempest? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Ozdemir, Steve wrote: > Can anyone explain what XREF and YREF does in the vector generator > section of the non-Star Wars Atari color XY's? If these serve as > references in the vector generator section of the PCB, could it be > possible that these are voltages at a fixed value that XOUT and YOUT use > as a baseline? If so, maybe my problem is that XREF is too high or too > low and why everything on the bottom half of the screen is scrunched > into a couple line? I should say that I can see "details" in those > couple lines showing me playing games....but, oh, is it hard to see the > bad guys coming up that half of the tube! 8^) 8^) 8^) XREF and YREF are the reference voltages for the DACs (In fact, it's generated BY the DAC-08 (and other stuff,) FOR the AM6012s.) XREF and YREF should be the same, so you might check that out (although the reference voltages are not static, they change, based upon the DVY signals.) If you're XREF voltage was bad, I'd doubt you'd get anything out of the corresponding AM6012 DAC, especially nothing as "good" as a good half-picture. Generally a reference voltage that's too low will cause some seriously wierd stuff to happen to DAC outputs -- at least to the DACs that I build... > > I sure wish I had an oscilliscope to debug this.... > You've got 2 options...buy a scope, or shotgun it. I'd start with the analog switches if you choose the latter, since they're the cheapest and easiest to find. Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 18:22:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:22:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:16:23 -0600 (CST) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: "Ozdemir, Steve" cc: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: more info on euro star castle boards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Ozdemir, Steve wrote: > ps - Does anyone want to speculate what Space Pirates was a copy of? > How about Star Hawk?? I'd guess Rip Off... Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 18:31:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:31:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison ) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:31:05 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9712012031.ZM23189@calcite> In-Reply-To: "RE: more info on euro star castle boards" (Dec 1, 8:16pm) References: <199712020233.VAA02577 > X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist > Subject: Re: more info on euro star castle boards Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Dec 1, 8:16pm, wrote: > Subject: RE: more info on euro star castle boards > > On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Ozdemir, Steve wrote: > > > ps - Does anyone want to speculate what Space Pirates was a copy of? > > How about Star Hawk?? > > I'd guess Rip Off... I'd have to agree based on the fact that when I had an Apple IIe, I had a game called Space Pirates which was a rip off of Rip Off. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 22:38:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:37:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3483AAB4.2AD09344 > Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 22:29:08 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Vector Monitor HV power... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BadReturnPath: pinball using "Reply-to" header Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Hi, Clay! Sounds like a natural evolution on my idea. I beleive though that you willfind that unless you can get the HV up to the 19KV range that you will not get a sharp image. You need the 19KV to accelerate the elctron beam so it can be bright and sharp. Still this is the right direction. The GO7 flybacks are quite cheap right now, and if the supply was modified so that one would get a voltage doubler to raise the relative B+ to areound 120VDC then chances are this would work. Who has the time to do this??? (Not I) John :-#)# Clay Cowgill wrote: > > Over the holiday weekend I had plenty of time to play with "stuff"... One > of the things I did was finally force myself to understand how the HV > supply of monitors works (and to design a "new" one as a test). > > I concentrated on the Wells Gardner HV design and the GO-7 power section > (since those two use the same CRT). It looks to me as though the only > reason we're using "custom" HV transformers at all is that they're > insistant on using the differential +-25V DC power supply. The only big > difference from most of the "raster" type power supplies (other than not > being triggered off the Horizontal retrace speed) is that the transformer > that triggers the Horizontal Output Transistor sits with one leg at chassis > ground on a Raster where as the Wells Gardner/Atari monitor designs hold > one leg at -DC rail. (I assume that having the +-DC supplies were just an > artifact of the deflection system, so rather than bring 120VAC out to the > HV cage they just used the DC supplies already available.) > > It looks to me that the "special" windings of the vector HV transformers > really only increase the turns ratio to make up for the 50-60V peak to peak > output of the HOT instead of a ~120V P-P on a Raster. (So in theory, if > you replaced an amplifone HV unit with a GO-7 HV transformer-- wired up so > everything matches correctly-- you'd get about 50% of the HV you'd want. I > run my Wells Gardners at about 16KV-- I wonder if you couldn't just turn up > the "HV adjust" a bunch and get somewhere close to 16KV for a usable > display... :-) > > Now that I "get it" it looks really easy to make a HV power supply for an > Amplifone or Wells Gardner Vector monitor. All you do is take 120VAC and > run it through the DC rectification front end (like a GO-7) that gives you > about 120DC. Instead of all the horizontal retrace stuff and whatnot you > trigger a couple transistors off of a 555-timer circuit like the Wells > Gardner uses. The transistors kick a little trigger transformer (the Wells > Gardner/Amplifone used step-down transformers to pick up more current) that > triggers the HOT which applies the potential of the +120VDC rail to the HV > transformer. Screen and grid voltages just come off a resistor divider > network. That's all there is to it. > > Basically you could make a replacement HV supply using parts from a GO-7 > with no problems-- and you wouldn't need to worry about keeping the > deflection yoke and the rest of the "raster" crap attached to the chassis. > I bet the whole thing would cost less than half of a new Amplifone > transformer... > > -Clay > > Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager > _______________________________________________________________________ > /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay > \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Dec 1 22:38:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:37:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3483A84C.19C0312B > Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 22:18:52 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Some vector games for sale... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BadReturnPath: pinball using "Reply-to" header Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Hi, Jeff(and all)! What Battlezone parts are you looking for? I have four BZ's right now, 3 U/R's and the Cabaret. Have some control hardware and a bunch of boards. Offers on games? Lemmesee, I would like to get $395US for the Space Duel C/T (very good monitor and cabinet. Of course the game works fine. Perhaps could be converted to a Tempest? As for the BZ Cabaret...Same price. John :-#)# Jeff Hendrix wrote: > > John, > Do you have any battlezone parts? I'm looking for a control panel > and a b&w xy monitor. > What do you want for your bz cabaret and space duel cocktail? > > -jeff > > >Hmm let's see, what to clear out. > >Atari Space Duel cocktail > >Atari Tempest Cocktail > >Atari Battlezone Cabaret > >Atari Battlezone fullsize (!) > >Sega Star Trek in a Tempset U/R cabinet. > >Exidy Tailgunner II in a cockpit > >Atari Star Wars in a cockpit > >Cinematronics/Vectorbeam Barrier (Jwelser has his eye on this one) > > > >There must be one or two more hiding here... > >I really need the space here, and so am open to offers. This stuff all > >works, perhaps a package deal??? > > > >John :-#)# > > > > John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 > > Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) > > mailto:jrr > > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." > > jeffh > > Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. > www.diac.com/~jeffh/ -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Dec 2 03:05:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 03:05:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34840737.3A1C@mail.idt.net> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 05:03:51 -0800 From: mayday19 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Vector Monitor HV power... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Clay, What did you ever find out about that new Murata flyback I sent you (about a year ago now?) that I thought might have been a replacement for the WG HV transformer? I know it is not a replacement, but if it can produce ~19Kv and you could use for making up a HV replacement module, I can buy those for only $5 each and probably cheaper in quantity (although I dont know how many are available, probably at least 200). since the transformer would be the most expensive part, that would DRASTICALLY reduce the price. Jeff -- http://idt.net/~mayday19 From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Dec 2 06:34:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 06:34:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:33:38 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Vector Monitor HV power... In-Reply-To: <348a6295.868298427 > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Zonn wrote: > The Amplifone does fall out of regulation during the explosion scenes. > If you look at the +/-24v regulators used to regulate the inputs you'll > see they are bypassed with 50 ohm resistors. During the explosions, the > 7824/7924 could not supply the amount of current needed. These resistor I must admit, it's been a number of years since I've seen a real Star Wars machine. What exactly was the effect of this deregulation ? -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Dec 2 08:59:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:58:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:00:03 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Vector Monitor HV power... Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >Wells Gardner did regulate the output, based on feedback from the 180v >supply. Oh, right. There's a lead off the primary that WG runs back to a little three/four transistor regulator... The GO-7 transformer kicks back the same 180V off the primary, I was figuring to more or less cut and paste the regulator. Might not work with a 120Vdc potential to the HV transformer though-- maybe too much voltage for the junctions in the 3906/3904's? Hadn't thought about that before... >Amplifones use a completely different way of regulating their HV. The mysterious "Magnetic Correction Device" or whatever the hell it's called. ;-) >The Amplifone does fall out of regulation during the explosion scenes. >If you look at the +/-24v regulators used to regulate the inputs you'll >see they are bypassed with 50 ohm resistors. During the explosions, the >7824/7924 could not supply the amount of current needed. These resistor >supply the additional amount of current during current peaks, though >when they kick in, regulation is lost. Ahhh, I seem to remember some discussion about that now. It looks to me like the "easy" thing to do is replicate the Wells Gardner HV circuit making the following "adjustments": 1) cross transistors to more commonly available ones where appropriate 2) use GO-7 HV transformers and 2SD870 HOT 3) use isolated 120VAC supply to bring main supply to +120DC instead of +-25V 4) double check/adjust HV regulator to be tolerant of 120V potential (Probably be smart to see about getting rid of that 150V zener since they're a pain to find, drop it down to something a bit easier to find... I'm half-way tempted to bring in a WG HV cage and scan the PCB layout and just make "changes" with Photoshop and try etching a PCB that way. :-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Dec 2 09:27:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:27:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:27:21 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Duncan Brown in May 1980 "Coin Connection" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist I just received a few old "Atari Coin Connection" newsletters, and spotted this in the May, 1980 edition: Asteroids Champ In the last issue of the Coin Connection, we reported a high score on Asteroids of 1,000,000 points. Well, records were meant to be broken, as the saying goes! Duncan Brown of Charlottesville, Virginia, broke that record on March 29. Duncan reported that he played one game of Asteroids for fifteen and one-half hours, scoring 7,200,620 points. When he quit playing, there were still twenty-two extra ships left. Duncan has been playing Asteroids since January at Noel's Sub Shop and Game Room near the University of Virginia. Before his record-breaking game, Duncan had spent alot of hard-earned money learning how to play Asteroids. Duncan's Asteroids technique is much the same as other expert players have reported. He leaves a couple of small asteroids on the screen so that the largers ones do not appear. He then places his space-ship on the side of the screen and waits for the enemy saucer to come out. The player has a distinct advantage over the enemy saucer because the saucer is usually not as agressive as the player. An Asteroids game modification is now available to help cut down on excessive player game times. This modification will make the enemy saucer more agressive. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Dec 2 09:32:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:32:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: Duncan Brown in May 1980 "Coin Connection" Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:32:48 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist G'day folks, Oh come one...we all know what really happened. Duncan reprogrammed that Asteroids! 8^) 8^) 8^) Steven S Ozdemir sso >---------- >From: aek ] >Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 9:27 AM >To: vectorlist >Subject: Duncan Brown in May 1980 "Coin Connection" > > >I just received a few old "Atari Coin Connection" >newsletters, and spotted this in the May, 1980 >edition: > >Asteroids Champ > >In the last issue of the Coin Connection, we >reported a high score on Asteroids of 1,000,000 >points. Well, records were meant to be broken, >as the saying goes! > >Duncan Brown of Charlottesville, Virginia, >broke that record on March 29. Duncan reported >that he played one game of Asteroids for >fifteen and one-half hours, scoring 7,200,620 >points. When he quit playing, there were still >twenty-two extra ships left. > >Duncan has been playing Asteroids since January >at Noel's Sub Shop and Game Room near the >University of Virginia. Before his record-breaking >game, Duncan had spent alot of hard-earned money >learning how to play Asteroids. > >Duncan's Asteroids technique is much the same as >other expert players have reported. He leaves a >couple of small asteroids on the screen so that >the largers ones do not appear. He then places >his space-ship on the side of the screen and >waits for the enemy saucer to come out. The >player has a distinct advantage over the enemy >saucer because the saucer is usually not as >agressive as the player. > >An Asteroids game modification is now available >to help cut down on excessive player game times. >This modification will make the enemy saucer >more agressive. > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Dec 2 10:44:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:44:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:45:07 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Vector Monitor HV power... Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >Clay, > >What did you ever find out about that new Murata flyback I sent you >(about a year ago now?) that I thought might have been a replacement for >the WG HV transformer? Hmmmm. I was looking at it and I don't think I ever really tried to put it through its paces... I'm not 100% sure how to tell what pins do what actually. We have a flyback tester here at work (one of the engineers used to repair TV's) so I can probably just do a ringing test on all the pins and map out a likely pinout from it. Short of tearing one apart-- anyone know a good way to figure out what goes where on an "unknown" pinout flyback transformer? >I know it is not a replacement, but if it can produce ~19Kv and you could >use for making up a HV replacement module, I can buy those for only $5 >each and probably cheaper in quantity (although I dont know how many are >available, probably at least 200). since the transformer would be the >most expensive part, that would DRASTICALLY reduce the price. That would be pretty neat. Even if you could only make 200 of 'em a $20-30 replacement HV supply could be pretty cool! -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Dec 2 10:51:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:50:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:51:56 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Vector Monitor HV power... Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >I must admit, it's been a number of years since I've seen a real Star Wars >machine. What exactly was the effect of this deregulation ? > >-Chris Fuzz! The vector lines get "fuzzy" like you're messing with the focus knob. Makes for a nice "explosion" though. ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Dec 2 10:58:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:58:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:59:47 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Coolness... Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Finding some neato stuff here: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/5322/hv2.html Stuff lacks regulation, but it's a nice super-simplification for learning it. ;-) Somebody (Dave something) sent me e-mail and says he's got the same project going (a replacement HV cage), so if he responds that he's far along and will definately finish I might bow out of this and work on something else... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Dec 2 11:57:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:57:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:56:22 -0600 Message-Id: <199712021956.NAA22614 > From: Michael Schulz To: vectorlist In-Reply-To: (message from Clay Cowgill on Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:32:50 -0800) Subject: Nightmare! (was: Re: more info on euro star castle boards) Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >And I've got the Sega stuff pretty much wrapped up now, so it's this or >Nightmare next... :-) > Ok, I know it's not vector, but my vote is for Nightmare. I have a spare Food Fight boardset just waiting to be converted... :-) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Schulz | Texas Instruments, SpecWorks Software Design Engineer | (972) 927-5847, mschulz ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- The opinions and views expressed are my own, and do ------------- ----------- not necessarily reflect those of Texas Instruments Inc. ----------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Dec 2 12:45:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:45:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 13:42:30 -0700 From: Jess Askey Subject: Re: Nightmare! (was: Re: more info on euro star castle boards) To: vectorlist Message-id: <348472B6.65F9 > Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199712021956.NAA22614 > Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Michael Schulz wrote: > > >And I've got the Sega stuff pretty much wrapped up now, so it's this or > >Nightmare next... :-) > > > Ok, I know it's not vector, but my vote is for Nightmare. I second the nomination! :-) jess -- Jess M. Askey ************* My Page *************** ESLB/The Audio Analyst * http://magenta.com/havoc * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B **********Pins/Vids For Sale ******** Laramie WY 82070 * http://magenta.com/havoc/game-spot * From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Dec 2 15:23:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:23:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <348497D3.614F > Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 18:20:51 -0500 From: Kev X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Nightmare! (was: Re: more info on euro star castle boards) References: <199712021956.NAA22614 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Jess Askey wrote: > > Michael Schulz wrote: > > > > >And I've got the Sega stuff pretty much wrapped up now, so it's this or > > >Nightmare next... :-) > > > > > Ok, I know it's not vector, but my vote is for Nightmare. > > I second the nomination! :-) Hmmph! I'm interested in the Nightmare but I'd rather see the Cinematronics -> WG monitor hack first myself. Note Clay, this doesn't mean I'm not interested in FF -> Nightmare ;-) -- Kev Looking for a few good PCBs! mowerman REMOVE THE "?" FROM MY E-MAIL http://www.erols.com/mowerman <- Video game info page From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Dec 2 15:38:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:38:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: Nightmare! (was: Re: more info on euro star castle boards) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:38:13 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist G'day, I'll second Kev's nomination for Cine->Atari BW/color (or Sega for that matter). Now what's this Nightmare game? (Putting on my asbesto suit...is this thing getting worn from use?) Steven S Ozdemir sso >---------- >From: Kev[SMTP:mowerman? ] >Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 3:20 PM >To: vectorlist >Subject: Re: Nightmare! (was: Re: more info on euro star castle boards) > >Jess Askey wrote: >> >> Michael Schulz wrote: >> > >> > >And I've got the Sega stuff pretty much wrapped up now, so it's this or >> > >Nightmare next... :-) >> > > >> > Ok, I know it's not vector, but my vote is for Nightmare. >> >> I second the nomination! :-) > >Hmmph! I'm interested in the Nightmare but I'd rather see the >Cinematronics -> WG monitor hack first myself. > >Note Clay, this doesn't mean I'm not interested in FF -> Nightmare ;-) > >-- >Kev Looking for a few good >PCBs! >mowerman REMOVE THE "?" FROM MY >E-MAIL > >http://www.erols.com/mowerman <- Video game info page > > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Dec 2 16:02:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:02:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:03:21 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: RE: Nightmare! (was: Re: more info on euro star castle boards) Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >G'day, > >I'll second Kev's nomination for Cine->Atari BW/color (or Sega for that >matter). Now what's this Nightmare game? (Putting on my asbesto >suit...is this thing getting worn from use?) Nightmare is a prototype Atari arcade game that I got from an ex-Atari employee. It was done by GCC (Quantum and Food Fight) and is based on a Food Fight board (raster). I think it was to be a conversion kit for TRON (since it uses the same controls and screen orientation) but for some reason didn't make it out-- maybe too difficult to convert a TRON cabinet in the field?. Very cool game though-- nice graphics (twice the ROM of Food Fight), digitized sound, etc. I've been collecting parts to duplicate the thing as a kit. (Found the required ADPCM chips in a bunch of old Voice Response Unit motherboards last week, BTW!) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!vectorlist Tue Dec 2 23:51:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:51:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:51:32 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: list update / test Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: aek (Al Kossow) I fixed a bunch of little things that were broken in the mail header. mail should come from vectorlist now, and the reply line should be to the person who sent the message, not the whole group... From spies.com!vectorlist Wed Dec 3 00:27:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:27:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <348517A2.8CA24127 > Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 00:26:10 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Vector Monitor HV power... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BadReturnPath: pinball using "Reply-to" header Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: John Robertson Hi, Cay! What monitor was that Murata flyback used in? I should be able to provide you the pinout if it was used in a video game... John :-#)# Clay Cowgill wrote: > > >Clay, > > > >What did you ever find out about that new Murata flyback I sent you > >(about a year ago now?) that I thought might have been a replacement for > >the WG HV transformer? > > Hmmmm. I was looking at it and I don't think I ever really tried to put it > through its paces... I'm not 100% sure how to tell what pins do what > actually. We have a flyback tester here at work (one of the engineers used > to repair TV's) so I can probably just do a ringing test on all the pins > and map out a likely pinout from it. Short of tearing one apart-- anyone > know a good way to figure out what goes where on an "unknown" pinout > flyback transformer? > > >I know it is not a replacement, but if it can produce ~19Kv and you could > >use for making up a HV replacement module, I can buy those for only $5 > >each and probably cheaper in quantity (although I dont know how many are > >available, probably at least 200). since the transformer would be the > >most expensive part, that would DRASTICALLY reduce the price. > > That would be pretty neat. Even if you could only make 200 of 'em a $20-30 > replacement HV supply could be pretty cool! > > -Clay > > Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager > _______________________________________________________________________ > /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay > \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!vectorlist Wed Dec 3 10:10:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:09:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn (Zonn) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: list update / test Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 18:11:35 GMT Message-ID: <34869f96.1015009894 > References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: zonn (Zonn) On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:51:32 -0800 (PST), aek (Al Kossow) wrote: > >I fixed a bunch of little things that were broken in >the mail header. mail should come from=20 >vectorlist now, and the reply line should >be to the person who sent the message, not the whole >group... =20 I'm disappointed! I've been trying to get all the other mailings lists I subscribe to, to use your default of replying to the mailing list! I thought that was totally cool! The times I need to reply to an individual as opposed to replying to the mailing list are at max only 1 out of 10, more likely something like 1 out of 50. I can deal with it, but I sure liked it the way it was. It's going to make replying a bit harder, and will probably lead to more responses that are not 'replies' which will mess up the nice tree structure that my mailreader uses. -Zonn (who now must go to the above message and copy 'vectorlist ' and move it up to the 'To:' slot.) <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn -------| // \\/ From spies.com!vectorlist Wed Dec 3 10:33:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:32:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist '" Cc: "'zonn > Subject: RE: list update / test Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:32:52 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day Zonn (and all), Well, I was annoyed that anytime I wanted to make a conversation in vectorlist private (for stupid questions, ridiculous offers, begging for help, etc.) I'd have to paste in the person's email address to respond just to them. So I guess I like the change. I do see Zonn's point that if vectorlist is the default, then you'll see more traffic. And I think that's good with our bunch of people. We've had alot of trouble in the KLOV email list with parts of the conversation getting lost due to not using klov-team@vaps.org as the default email address to respond to. I think I may have a solution. In the past for vectorlist, whether you responded to everyone or responded to just the sender, vectorlist was put in the "To" field of the response. With yesterday's modifcation to the email list mechanism, responding to the sender becomes possible (but if you want to respond to the vectorlist then you can respond to everyone and you'll get both the vectorlist and the sender in the "To" field). Perhaps, Al could change something in the email list mechanism so that all emails going out to everyone have vectorlist in the "To" field and the sender in the "Cc" field. Thus by default all responses go to everyone, but if you'd like to respond just to the sender then you can respond to all and then remove the vectorlist email address to make things private! What do you think? Can't we all just get along? 8^) 8^) 8^) Steven S Ozdemir sso ps - I use MS Exchange, and some of my reasoning might inadvertantly be based on this. If my suggestions conflict with how your mail reader works, then my apoligies in advance and I withdraw my suggestion. >---------- >From: zonn ] >Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 1997 10:11 AM >To: vectorlist >Subject: Re: list update / test > >On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:51:32 -0800 (PST), aek (Al Kossow) >wrote: > >> >>I fixed a bunch of little things that were broken in >>the mail header. mail should come from >>vectorlist now, and the reply line should >>be to the person who sent the message, not the whole >>group... > >I'm disappointed! I've been trying to get all the other mailings lists >I subscribe to, to use your default of replying to the mailing list! > >I thought that was totally cool! The times I need to reply to an >individual as opposed to replying to the mailing list are at max only 1 >out of 10, more likely something like 1 out of 50. > >I can deal with it, but I sure liked it the way it was. It's going to >make replying a bit harder, and will probably lead to more responses >that are not 'replies' which will mess up the nice tree structure that >my mailreader uses. > >-Zonn (who now must go to the above message and copy >'vectorlist ' and move it up to the 'To:' slot.) > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: > |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically > / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures > / / //\\ // (__) > / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn > -------| // \\/ > From spies.com!vectorlist Wed Dec 3 10:52:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:52:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn (Zonn) To: vectorlist Cc: sso Subject: Re: list update / test Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 18:53:54 GMT Message-ID: <3485a795.1017056716 > References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: zonn (Zonn) On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:32:52 -0800, "Ozdemir, Steve" wrote: >G'day Zonn (and all), > >Well, I was annoyed that anytime I wanted to make a conversation in >vectorlist private (for stupid questions, ridiculous offers, begging for >help, etc.) I'd have to paste in the person's email address to respond >just to them. So I guess I like the change. So you really send more private email based on 'vectorlist' postings, than responses directed to 'vectorlist'? You are much more social than I am! >I do see Zonn's point that if vectorlist is the default, then you'll see >more traffic. And I think that's good with our bunch of people. We've >had alot of trouble in the KLOV email list with parts of the >conversation getting lost due to not using klov-team@vaps.org as the >default email address to respond to. > >I think I may have a solution. > >In the past for vectorlist, whether you responded to everyone or >responded to just the sender, vectorlist was put in the "To" field of >the response. With yesterday's modifcation to the email list mechanism, >responding to the sender becomes possible (but if you want to respond to >the vectorlist then you can respond to everyone and you'll get both the >vectorlist and the sender in the "To" field). That's done on other mailing lists, you end up with two copies of everything. >Perhaps, Al could change something in the email list mechanism so that >all emails going out to everyone have vectorlist in the "To" field and >the sender in the "Cc" field. Thus by default all responses go to >everyone, but if you'd like to respond just to the sender then you can >respond to all and then remove the vectorlist email address to make >things private! That seems reasonable. I use Agent and the way it used to worked, was fine. It's simple for me to open a pull down menu and reply to any of the fields. It sounds like your idea would work the way it use to, which works for me! >What do you think? Can't we all just get along? 8^) 8^) 8^) Your evoking my gag response here. ;^) -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn -------| // \\/ From spies.com!vectorlist Wed Dec 3 11:06:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:06:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:06:32 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: test of header mod Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: aek (Al Kossow) if I did this right, the mail header reply to should be vectorlist and the CC should be from me (yea, I know the domain is wrong..) From spies.com!vectorlist Wed Dec 3 11:13:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:13:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:12:57 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist Subject: Re: list update / test In-Reply-To: <3485a795.1017056716 > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" Most lists I'm on use Reply-To: to point back to the list. Pine, at least, asks if I want to send to the actual sender or the Reply-to address. ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From spies.com!vectorlist Wed Dec 3 11:18:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:17:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn (Zonn) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: test of header mod Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 19:19:26 GMT Message-ID: <3485b069.1019317574 > References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: zonn (Zonn) On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:06:32 -0800 (PST), aek (Al Kossow) wrote: >if I did this right, the mail header reply to should be vectorlist >and the CC should be from me (yea, I know the domain is wrong..) Very cool! Works for me! -Zonn (an obnoxiously squeaky wheel) <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn -------| // \\/ From spies.com!vectorlist Wed Dec 3 11:18:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:18:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:18:03 -0800 (PST) To: vectorlist From: vectorlist Subject: BOUNCE vectorlist : Admin request of type /\bsubscribe\b/i at line 9 Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: vectorlist >From mayo.edu!crhea Wed Dec 3 11:18:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: from mhro1.mayo.edu(really [129.176.100.75]) by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with smtp id for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:17:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Received: from sijer.mayo.edu by mhro1.mayo.edu; Wed, 3 Dec 97 13:16:56 -0600 Received: by sijer.Mayo.EDU (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA07395; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:16:57 -0600 From: "Rhea, Cristopher J." (Cris Rhea) Message-Id: <199712031916.NAA07395@sijer.Mayo.EDU> Subject: Re: list update / test (fwd) To: vectorlist Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:16:57 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Forwarded message: > From vectorlist Wed Dec 3 12:26:41 1997 > From: zonn (Zonn) > To: vectorlist > Subject: Re: list update / test > Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 18:11:35 GMT > I'm disappointed! I've been trying to get all the other mailings lists > I subscribe to, to use your default of replying to the mailing list! > > I thought that was totally cool! The times I need to reply to an > individual as opposed to replying to the mailing list are at max only 1 > out of 10, more likely something like 1 out of 50. > > I can deal with it, but I sure liked it the way it was. It's going to > make replying a bit harder, and will probably lead to more responses > that are not 'replies' which will mess up the nice tree structure that > my mailreader uses. > > -Zonn (who now must go to the above message and copy > 'vectorlist ' and move it up to the 'To:' slot.) I agree! Since the "From:" line was changed, any replies go to the author, not the list. Also, in my mail package (elm on Unix), I used to be able to save the note to the folder "vectorlist". Now, it tries to save it to a folder with the sender's name. I have to manually type "vectorlist". I would rather have the old behavior too.... PS: Al's note came out with an incomplete From: line causing my system to append the default domain to the address. --- Cris ----------------------------------------------------------- Cristopher J. Rhea Mayo Foundation Research Computing Facility Guggenheim 1001B crhea@Mayo.EDU Rochester, MN 55905 Fax: (507) 266-4486 (507) 284-0587 ----------------------------------------------------------- From spies.com!vectorlist Wed Dec 3 12:10:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:10:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:11:32 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Sega sound boards... Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill Hi everyone. Just a little probe for info here... I was thinking... Would anyone be interested in a sound board that was sort-of a mid-way compromise for Sega G-80 sound? I'll explain: The Universal Sound Board is pretty cool 'cause it sounds neat and works with Star Trek *and* Tac/Scan. That leaves Eliminator/Zektor with similar sound boards, and Space Fury the odd man out. So, I was thinking of maybe making a *simple* little sound board that maybe just has little microcontroller and an 8910 or two. Maybe a couple noise generators for engine sounds... Basically the idea is to make something that will produce sounds for elim/zektor/spacefury that will be "close" to the original sounds. Close enough that you can play the games and not feel like there's anything missing, but they obviously wouldn't be dead-on for any of the purists out there. ;-) Sound worthwhile to anyone? The other thought is to learn how to program the Universal Sound Board and make *that* make sounds for SF/ZK/EL. I like that 'cause it's nice and clean, but am a little intimidated to mess with it unless I have to. Comments? Here's another question. Anyone know how big the samples are for all the speech in Star Trek/Zektor/Space Fury (for something like MAME)? (I'm assuming 8bit 11khz audio.) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!vectorlist Wed Dec 3 12:26:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:26:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:25:59 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Sega sound boards... Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: aek (Al Kossow) "Here's another question. Anyone know how big the samples are for all the speech in Star Trek/Zektor/Space Fury (for something like MAME)? (I'm assuming 8bit 11khz audio.)" Space Fury 8 bit 22khz 1.2mb Star Trek 8 bit 22khz 1.0mb Zektor 8 bit 22khz 1.2mb the samples were created at 48khz 16bits and bandpass filtered prior to sample rate converison don't ask how I know :-) From spies.com!vectorlist Wed Dec 3 12:33:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:33:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison ) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:32:08 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9712031432.ZM8174@calcite> In-Reply-To: "Christopher X. Candreva" "Re: list update / test" (Dec 3, 2:12pm) References: <199712032023.PAA28898 > X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: list update / test Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Mark Jenison I like the new way...I don't have to copy e-mails when I want to reply to just one person. Now my mailer works like this: Hit reply: Just that person Hit reply all: Entire news group Sounds like some people out there just need get into the '90's and get some decent mailers ;-) On Dec 3, 2:12pm, Christopher X. Candreva wrote: > Subject: Re: list update / test > > Most lists I'm on use Reply-To: to point back to the list. > > Pine, at least, asks if I want to send to the actual sender or the Reply-to > address. > > ========================================================== > Chris Candreva -- chris -- (914) 967-7816 > WestNet Internet Services of Westchester > http://www.westnet.com/ > >-- End of excerpt from Christopher X. Candreva From spies.com!vectorlist Wed Dec 3 13:51:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:51:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:52:28 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Sega sound boards... Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill >Space Fury 8 bit 22khz 1.2mb >Star Trek 8 bit 22khz 1.0mb >Zektor 8 bit 22khz 1.2mb > >the samples were created at 48khz 16bits and bandpass >filtered prior to sample rate converison They're all just voice-band stuff, no? Anyone have a convincing reason why I couldn't resample these to 8KHz? (I don't recall the frequency response of the SPO-250, but I doubt it's over 4KHz-- and even if it is, human voice energy rolls off real fast past 1.6KHz...) If I can fit 'em into 1Mbyte or less a "sample player" card is kind-of a no-brainer. (1Mbyte is my max "pain threshold" for EPROMs now-a-days.) Simple RLE compression would probably do pretty well on the samples too...) I'm thinking of a 2051 controller with 2 27C040's, 4 74ls193's, a DAC and some glue logic... The controller gets the sample commands from the G-80 I/O port, then parallel loads the start address of the appropriate sample in the cascaded counters (193's). Then with each strobe of an I/O line on the 2051 to the counters we get a new byte of sample data which can be decompressed and output to a DAC (just an R2R ladder with an output filter is probably fine). (If you don't care about the compression you can hook the DAC more of less directly to the EPROM.) The good bit about this is that it's small and gets away from the SPO-250 nicely. Any thoughts? Zonn-- you did this before, right? I did one back in college without the ability to address the start address of a sample, but it worked OK... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!vectorlist Wed Dec 3 14:31:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:30:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn (Zonn) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Sega sound boards... Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 22:31:32 GMT Message-ID: <3488dc06.1030483998 > References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: zonn (Zonn) On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:52:28 -0800, Clay Cowgill wrote: >>Space Fury 8 bit 22khz 1.2mb >>Star Trek 8 bit 22khz 1.0mb >>Zektor 8 bit 22khz 1.2mb >> >>the samples were created at 48khz 16bits and bandpass >>filtered prior to sample rate converison > >They're all just voice-band stuff, no? Anyone have a convincing reason = why >I couldn't resample these to 8KHz? (I don't recall the frequency = response >of the SPO-250, but I doubt it's over 4KHz-- and even if it is, human = voice >energy rolls off real fast past 1.6KHz...) > >If I can fit 'em into 1Mbyte or less a "sample player" card is kind-of a >no-brainer. (1Mbyte is my max "pain threshold" for EPROMs now-a-days.) >Simple RLE compression would probably do pretty well on the samples = too...) Nah, it works like sh*t, unless there is a lot of "true" silences (even the slightest noise keeps RLE from working). You might try ADPCM, go download the examples on the Microchip home page. They use a version of ADPCM that uses no floating point. As long as you stick to voice, ADPCM works well. Just don't try pumping any music through it. >I'm thinking of a 2051 controller with 2 27C040's, 4 74ls193's, a DAC = and >some glue logic... The controller gets the sample commands from the = G-80 >I/O port, then parallel loads the start address of the appropriate = sample >in the cascaded counters (193's). Then with each strobe of an I/O line = on >the 2051 to the counters we get a new byte of sample data which can be >decompressed and output to a DAC (just an R2R ladder with an output = filter >is probably fine). At these speed PWM works really well, is much cheaper, and using a processor dedicated to the job, could most likely be done completely in software. Though a 10bit PWM port like that in the PIC makes life easy. Once again refer to the PIC technote -- a fully functional speech synthesizer -- complete with schematic and source code. It might be just what you're looking for, as is. They even have PC based "C" software for creating the compressed image. All the work is done for you! -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn -------| // \\/ From spies.com!vectorlist Wed Dec 3 15:37:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:35:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:36:58 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Sega sound boards... Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill >Nah, it works like sh*t, unless there is a lot of "true" silences (even >the slightest noise keeps RLE from working). Hmmmm. Good point. >You might try ADPCM, go download the examples on the Microchip home >page. They use a version of ADPCM that uses no floating point. As long >as you stick to voice, ADPCM works well. Just don't try pumping any >music through it. Actually, ADPCM is happy with music. Music goes to hell in a handbasket really fast if it runs through any sort of CELP or Truespeech, or DSVD type coders (like LPC etc.). 3 or 4 bit ADPCM is good compression too-- and like you said-- Microchip has source on their webpage. Seems like it used the 16Cxx parts? (I looked at that a while back when researching how to replicate Nightmare, since it uses 4bit ADPCM for samples.) (We use ADPCM on our modems for incoming/outgoing messages-- works fine with music/tonal content. If you try to play hold-music over a DSVD type voice coder you get cool (but useless) "demons of hell" noises.) I might just do a delta+key type thing. Have to analyze the data and look at it. Basically you just code two "deltas" per byte, each capable of going +/- seven steps. If you can't get where you need it with the delta, you send a "key" (like 0xff) that says the next byte is an absolute value. Depending on the nature of the data you can get either 2:1 compression, or 1:2 expansion. ;-) If I can get the samples to fit "raw" into 1Mbyte I'd probably not even bother with compression in all honesty... >At these speed PWM works really well, is much cheaper, and using a >processor dedicated to the job, could most likely be done completely in >software. Though a 10bit PWM port like that in the PIC makes life easy. >Once again refer to the PIC technote -- a fully functional speech >synthesizer -- complete with schematic and source code. It might be >just what you're looking for, as is. They even have PC based "C" >software for creating the compressed image. All the work is done for >you! Well, hey, I haven't looked at that one yet. Cool! Anybody else have any ideas? I'd like to keep it cheap and easily assembled (common parts) to compete with just bank-selecting more ROM from an old Speech board. (Judging from the number of dead speech boards/missing SPO250's in the world though I can imagine we'll need a replacement at some point.) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!vectorlist Wed Dec 3 15:43:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:43:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199712032341.RAA22006@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: <3488dc06.1030483998 > X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Wed, 3 Dec 97 17:43:07 -0600 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Sega sound boards... References: <3488dc06.1030483998 > Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Ray Ghanbari You wrote: > Once again refer to the PIC technote -- a fully functional speech > synthesizer -- complete with schematic and source code. It might be > just what you're looking for, as is. They even have PC based "C" > software for creating the compressed image. All the work is done for > you! Forgive me, but this solution lacks the distinctive "retro-coolness" factor of figuring out how the universal sound board works and hacking that. If you just want to play the games, use a PC emulator. I get a kick out of using as much original hardware as possible. Put another way, Clay's Sega menu system kicks serious ass partially because he hacked it out the same way the Sega coders did 15 years ago. As the commercial say "Gotta feel the love..." To code the beast is to know the beast. Of course, it's easy to offer advice when you're not the one pouring over the schematics reverse engineering the beast. I bow to the demigods who shed light on these historical artifacts and look forward to hacking these things in the future. Ray From spies.com!vectorlist Wed Dec 3 21:29:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 21:28:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:28:22 -0500 (EST) From: Dangerwil Message-ID: <971204002821_-1104556095 > To: vectorlist Subject: Ms. Gardneraphone Monitor Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Dangerwil Well, It was time to monkey with all those junk parts. I took an old nasty GO7 tube from a ms. pac. Swapped the end plug and put on a Ampliphone deflection coil. Stuffed this into a spare WG 6100 chassis. I had to monkey quite a bit with the convergence, but I got it really really close as long as the picture is adjusted about 1 inch in from the edges of the tube. The picture looks just as good as the Ampliphone tube that I have running on a WG in my ROTJ. Bright thick vector lines, not fuzzy or blurred. The pac tube was really burned in but behind that thick black glass, you can't even see it. In self test, the green box is still somewhat bowed, but no one has ever mentioned it, that plays the game... Anyways it is possible, next time I am going to take the socket off the neckboard and replace it with one from an old GO7, swapping the plug is a real pain. Bill From spies.com!vectorlist Wed Dec 3 23:09:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:09:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34867373.6103@mail.idt.net> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 01:10:11 -0800 From: mayday19 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Sega sound boards... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: mayday19 Clay Cowgill wrote: > > >Space Fury 8 bit 22khz 1.2mb > >Star Trek 8 bit 22khz 1.0mb > >Zektor 8 bit 22khz 1.2mb > > > >the samples were created at 48khz 16bits and bandpass > >filtered prior to sample rate converison > > They're all just voice-band stuff, no? Anyone have a convincing reason why > I couldn't resample these to 8KHz? (I don't recall the frequency response > of the SPO-250, but I doubt it's over 4KHz-- and even if it is, human voice > energy rolls off real fast past 1.6KHz...) I dont know anything about all that digital logic stuff you guys would use to make it work..I'd like too... but in regular audio applications you basically set your sample rate by how high your highest frequency will be. The rule, or the 'Nyquest Thoerem' is that you must sample at at least 2 times the highest fyrequency recorded (to sound accurate).For example CD players sample at 44.1 KHz which is roughly twice the higest frequency humans can hear. Digital voice recorders usually sample @ 32khz (I think a few first-generation DAT decks did too). If you do not follow this rule you will get false decending harmonics, which will sound bad. nobodys knows why but it just happens. I'm assuming you know this cause you said you doubt it is over 4khz. If this is the case, then a 8khz sampling rate will work. It is cutting it close, but shouldn't make a difference. It would be a good idea to add a filter to block anything above 4Khz if you want to sample at 8Khz. Sampling at 8Khz probably wont sound the best though. Of course the faster you sample, the better it will sound. There are HD recorders out now that can sample at 96Khz. Holy gigibytes Batman! Jeff -- http://idt.net/~mayday19 From spies.com!vectorlist Wed Dec 3 23:56:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:54:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:53:37 -0600 (CST) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Sega sound boards... In-Reply-To: <34867373.6103@mail.idt.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, mayday19 wrote: > I dont know anything about all that digital logic stuff you guys would > use to make it work..I'd like too... but in regular audio applications > you basically set your sample rate by how high your highest frequency > will be. The rule, or the 'Nyquest Thoerem' is that you must sample at at > least 2 times the highest fyrequency recorded (to sound accurate).For > example CD players sample at 44.1 KHz which is roughly twice the higest > frequency humans can hear. Digital voice recorders usually sample @ > 32khz (I think a few first-generation DAT decks did too). If you do not > follow this rule you will get false decending harmonics, which will sound > bad. nobodys knows why but it just happens. Not true. We're getting off topic here, but the Nyquist criterion is very well understood. Sampling below the Nyquist frequency will result in aliasing of the signal like you alluded to. It makes more sense in the frequency domain, and I'd suggest consulting and Digital Signal Processing Textbook ("Digital Signal Processing" by Alan V. Oppenheim and Ronald W. Schafer is still regarded as one of the "bibles" of DSP, although it's a bit dated (1975) but does a good job of describing this, as do lots of other books) or I'll be happy to explain it in email. > I'm assuming you know this cause you said you doubt it is over 4khz. If > this is the case, then a 8khz sampling rate will work. It is cutting it > close, but shouldn't make a difference. It would be a good idea to add a > filter to block anything above 4Khz if you want to sample at 8Khz. > Sampling at 8Khz probably wont sound the best though. Of course the > faster you sample, the better it will sound. There are HD recorders out > now that can sample at 96Khz. Holy gigibytes Batman! 96 kHz is, for some reason, catching on as the new audio standard. Sampling above the Nyquist frequency generally does not make something sound better. Equipment often boasts huge oversampling rates 128X, etc because they use oversampled converters in them (i.e. Delta Sigma) which have better performance, but for entirely different reasons (I can get into this in email too, because it's what I do for a living :-) but it's way off topic for the vectorlist.) Every part that is coming out of our group (Digital Audio) these days supports up to 96 kHz sampling. Talking over the telephone is basically 8kHz so I see no reason why it wouldn't work for storing the voice samples at that sampling frequency. Since it looks like Al's already got the samples, all that would need to be done is another sample-rate-conversion. Darn, too bad this didn't happen in a few months, as we're about ready to release an asynchronous sample rate converter chip. I love putting Crystal stuff to work in important projects (i.e. Video Game stuff ;-) ) Joe From spies.com!vectorlist Thu Dec 4 03:27:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 03:26:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3486AFEE.3050@mail.idt.net> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 05:28:14 -0800 From: mayday19 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Sega sound boards... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: mayday19 jwelser wrote: > Not true. We're getting off topic here, but the Nyquist criterion > is very well understood. Sampling below the Nyquist frequency will result > in aliasing of the signal like you alluded to. This is off topic for the vectorlist..so please enlighten me in E-Mail Joe.. This is interesting, and if you do it for a living you should probably know your Nyquist :> (not like I might be able to follow you or anything, I dont use digital on a day-to-day basis :) When I was taught digital a while ago my teacher informed me that even SONY engineers could not figure out why the aliasing actually occurred...I guess he was not very well informed! (of course he was just an audio engineer who probably knew digital just well enough to teach a class on it :) Jeff -- http://idt.net/~mayday19 From spies.com!vectorlist Thu Dec 4 04:20:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:20:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: dpage@se.mediaone.net Message-Id: <199712041219.HAA22758@mrout2.se.mediaone.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: vectorlist Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 07:19:01 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Ms. Gardneraphone Monitor CC: Dangerwil In-reply-to: <971204002821_-1104556095 > X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: dpage@se.mediaone.net You did not explain that you converted your rotj to a sw. They are probably completely confused by now. ROTJ with vectors? : ) Dave From spies.com!vectorlist Thu Dec 4 04:59:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:59:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:58:24 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Sega sound boards... In-Reply-To: <3486AFEE.3050@mail.idt.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, mayday19 wrote: > This is off topic for the vectorlist..so please enlighten me in E-Mail Sure -- leave us all in suspense ! It may be off topic, but since it only appears it would genereate oh 4 or 6 more messages, I for one would rather know the answer ! -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From spies.com!vectorlist Thu Dec 4 07:38:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:37:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: Sega sound boards... To: vectorlist Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:06:42 -0700 (MST) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: from "Christopher X. Candreva" at Dec 4, 97 07:58:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <3486d5120.4c0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 549 Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: "Kurt Mahan" > > This is off topic for the vectorlist..so please enlighten me in E-Mail > Sure -- leave us all in suspense ! > > It may be off topic, but since it only appears it would genereate oh 4 or 6 > more messages, I for one would rather know the answer ! Yeah! Its not like this list generates a LOT of traffic. Kurt /* * This version of Kurt Mahan is currently being evaluated. Words he speaks * are those of him only and not those of Novell or anybody else. * * Novell Java Technologies R&D Group * * Kurt Mahan * kmahan */ From spies.com!vectorlist Thu Dec 4 09:44:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:44:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199712041710.LAA21059@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Thu, 4 Dec 97 11:12:29 -0600 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Sega sound boards... References: Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Ray Ghanbari You wrote: > > This is off topic for the vectorlist..so please enlighten me in E-Mail > > Sure -- leave us all in suspense ! Yeesh! I guess today's schools don't get into Nyquist stuff anymore? ;-) To have a prayer of reproducing a signal, the Nyquist criteria says you need to sample at at least double the highest frequency in the source signal, otherwise you get aliasing. Practical example: TV dude has a shirt with horizontal bands. As the camera zooms out, the shirt goes nuts and large bands start to appear. In this case, the "signal" is the pattern of stripes on the shirt, and the sampling is the vertical pixel spacing on the TV. As the spacing between the stripes on the shirt gets to be less than the pixel spacing on the TV, aliasing starts. Aliasing folds high frequency components into low frequncy components. That's why the "stripes" appear to get huge. This is *extremely* well understood. The mathematics are exceedingly straight forward, esp. for those of us that still think in Fourier space. Their are numerous applications that take advantage of this folding phenomena to enable precision work (take impossibly high frequencies and fold them into a range where they can be readily observed) So why did the original CD players sound like a dog shitting in a tin can? (circa 1984) The sampling rate on CDs is ~44kHz, which is ~2x the limit of most audio systems (20kHz). The problem was not aliasing, but in the generation (aka synthesis) of the analog signals. To a crude approximation, a nice sine wave signal at 20kHz would get reproduced as a nice square wave signal at 20kHz. Guess what. Square waves sound like a dog shitting in a tin can. How to deal with this easily? (at least with state of the shelf DACs circa 1985) Over sampling. In a grossly simplified view, oversampling adds additional stair steps to the square signal, making it more "analog" like. Apply a little analog filtering to smooth out the edges, and presumably you have a nice signal. Apply too much, and things sound like a dog shitting in a swimming pool (all muddy). This is where the art of audio design comes in, and why I blew $1k for a Nakamichi CD player back in 1984...everything else sounded like shit with a bad hang over. DACs today are *amazing* in comparison and I bow to the circuit gods that make these things work (my wife used to work as a minion for Analog Devices, and the designers were treated as gods) My read from the thread so far: Nyquist and aliasing are *extremely* well understood. Idealized synthesis of analog signals from digital sources with non-ideal components is less so, esp. for us golden ear types. For retro game applications, if you notice these things, it's time to crack a beer and get a life ;-) ;-) Now to sit back and have the real engineers remind me why I'm in management now ;-) Ray From spies.com!vectorlist Thu Dec 4 10:21:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:19:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:20:31 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Ms. Gardneraphone Monitor Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill >Well, > > It was time to monkey with all those junk parts. I took an old nasty GO7 >tube from a ms. pac. Swapped the end plug and put on a Ampliphone deflection >coil. Stuffed this into a spare WG 6100 chassis. Heh-heh. Cool. Ok, so who's up to try to find a 25" (27"? :-) tube with similar gun and HV supply voltages and try that transplant? *grin* -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!vectorlist Thu Dec 4 11:34:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:31:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:32:24 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Sega sound boards... Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill >I'm assuming you know this cause you said you doubt it is over 4khz. If >this is the case, then a 8khz sampling rate will work. It is cutting it >close, but shouldn't make a difference. It would be a good idea to add a >filter to block anything above 4Khz if you want to sample at 8Khz. >Sampling at 8Khz probably wont sound the best though. Of course the >faster you sample, the better it will sound. There are HD recorders out >now that can sample at 96Khz. Holy gigibytes Batman! Yeah, Mr. Nyquist was the reason I was picking 8KHz. I checked the datasheets last night on the SP0250 and it's max output bandwidth rolls off at 5KHz. (At pretty ucky S/N and Dynamic Range numbers too...) Since it's synthesized voice content anyway most anything over 2KHz are probably harmonics in the first place... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!vectorlist Thu Dec 4 11:39:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:36:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:36:56 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Sega sound boards... Sender: vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: aek (Al Kossow) "Yeah, Mr. Nyquist was the reason I was picking 8KHz. I checked the datasheets last night on the SP0250 and it's max output bandwidth rolls off at 5KHz. (At pretty ucky S/N and Dynamic Range numbers too...) Since it's synthesized voice content anyway most anything over 2KHz are probably harmonics in the first place..." yucky is putting it mildly. the sound and speech system is REALLY noisy in these games.. From spies.com!vectorlist Thu Dec 4 11:54:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:52:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender