From chumblespuzz  Wed Dec  1 06:05:03 1999
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From: "chumblespuzz" <chumblespuzz >
To: <vectorlist >
References: <3D62AB6FFC80D211A84700104B10CB2C02D95B18 >
Subject: Re: Gravitar CPOs - Last Minute Jitters
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 06:51:56 -0500
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Ok, here's my compromise:

On my NOS CPO the yellow line is 2 9/16" from the bottom edge. Adding Dan's
1/8" gives me Jeff's 2 11/16".

Perfect for both! ;)

Note that even if it is off by 1/16" it is an insignificant and unnoticeable
amount of variation for the installed CPO. There is no "critical" alingment
in the graphics.

Thanks!
-roy-

----- Original Message -----
From: jeff hendrix <jhendrix >
To: <vectorlist >
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 12:15 AM
Subject: RE: Gravitar CPOs - Last Minute Jitters


> On my gravitar the gap between the overlay and the bottom edge is 1/16"
> And the bottom of the yellow line is 2 11/16" from the bottom. (my yellow
> line is 2 5/8" from the edge of the overlay + the 1/16" to the edge of the
> CP)
>
> -jeff
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: acmech ]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 11:35 PM
> To: vectorlist 
> Subject: Re: Gravitar CPOs - Last Minute Jitters
>
>
> I took a look at my Gravitar and the overlay is set back from the bottom
> edge
> where the hinge is located  exactly 1/8".
>
> Dan
>
> On Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:00:56 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >With the Gravitar CPO I can't do a test fit to assure the sizing accuracy
> of
> >the NOS CPO, so I need your help. Can anyone tell me if the original CPO
> >reaches *exactly* to the bottom edge of the CP? If not, *exactly* how far
> is
> >it off by? And even better reference would be if someone could measure
from
> >the bottom edge of the CP to an easy reference point on the CPO, such as
> the
> >bottom of the outside yellow border. I know this would be difficult to do
> >accurately, but perhaps with a cloth tape measure (like those used in
> >sewing) or some other flexible scale would be great.
>

From Rcpilot2u  Wed Dec  1 13:07:29 1999
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Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:06:35 EST
Subject: 6100 rev swaps
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Can a older deflection pcb work with a newer HV cage? rev 1 to rev 2 and vise 
versa?
I need to check each out seperately. Thanks.


Charles Tweedy

City of Lynchburg Network Engineering

From raiford  Wed Dec  1 13:25:02 1999
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To: vectorlist 
From: Jon Raiford <raiford >
Subject: Re: 6100 rev swaps
Cc: Rcpilot2u 
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Yes.  In fact, I've had one revision give wavy interference (until I removed 2 caps) and another look great (the one w/ the interference was the original).  The boards all do the same things (read: connections are the same).  Only protection circuits were added and better components installed.  Then again, I *could* be wrong :)  I know I've swapped boards around though without blowing anything up (the swapping even worked).

Jon

At 02:06 PM 12/01/1999 EST, you wrote:
>Can a older deflection pcb work with a newer HV cage? rev 1 to rev 2 and vise 
>versa?
>I need to check each out seperately. Thanks.
>
>
>Charles Tweedy
>
>City of Lynchburg Network Engineering
>
>

From Rcpilot2u  Wed Dec  1 13:59:13 1999
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Subject: Re: 6100 rev swaps
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"Yes.  In fact, I've had one revision give wavy interference (until I removed 
2 caps) and another look great (the one w/ the interference was the 
original). "



Are you talking about the boxy caps? I thought about removing them also. 
Thanks
for the info. 


Charles Tweedy

From raiford  Wed Dec  1 14:09:16 1999
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To: vectorlist 
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Yes.  Did anyone ever document those on the net?  As it is, I keep mentioning whenever they seem almost relevant since I don't have a web page to put the info on.

Jon

At 02:58 PM 12/01/1999 EST, you wrote:
>
>"Yes.  In fact, I've had one revision give wavy interference (until I removed 
>2 caps) and another look great (the one w/ the interference was the 
>original). "
>
>
>
>Are you talking about the boxy caps? I thought about removing them also. 
>Thanks
>for the info. 
>
>
>Charles Tweedy
>
>

From ClayC  Wed Dec  1 14:26:48 1999
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From: Clay Cowgill <ClayC >
To: "'vectorlist '" <vectorlist >
Subject: Anyone need a solder/desolder station?
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 12:26:08 -0800 
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Step right up, step right up!  have I got a deal for you! ;-)
 
Ok, this is a blatant "forsale" post, but I'm going to sell these quite
cheap and they are really nice for working on vector boards (or most any
other boards) so I hope nobody minds...
 
I wound up with a bunch of PACE MBT solder/desolder stations.  They look
like:
 
http://www.multigame.com/MBT.JPG <http://www.multigame.com/MBT.JPG> 
 
They seem to be an albino version of the current PACE MBT 201:
 
http://www.paceusa.com/private/public/products/pacesys/mbt20_01.htm
<http://www.paceusa.com/private/public/products/pacesys/mbt20_01.htm> 
 
So, bad news first:  They don't have the PS-80 soldering iron or the SX-70
solder extractor.  If you need to buy those new they're $99 and $199
respectively from PACE USA.
 
But, good news second:  I'm going to sell these base stations for $75.00
each.  $10 shipping (they're heavy!) and for an extra $5 I'll include the
little soldering-iron holders that go with them (different from the picture
at the PACE website, but they're functional).
 
Even if you have to buy a new PS-80 and SX-70 your total would be around
$400.  Since an MBT-201A is $825 new from Jensen Tools that's probably still
a good deal (basically half price).
 
The catch:  I'll test these to make sure the heaters and vacuum pump works,
but that's all.  You'll have to clean stickers and crap off them and
probably have to live with some scratches and dings on the case.  I'm not
100% sure how many will test out OK, but I think I have 9 total which I'm
guessing will yield about 6 fully functional ones.  I'll probably sell
"sick" ones cheaper since you can still buy replacement parts from PACE to
make a good one if anyone's interested.
 
(I was going to clean these up and eBay them, but I have 20 other projects
I'd rather do, and Tara's getting tired of them sitting in the entry-way of
the house. ;-)
 
Toss me an e-mail if you're interested ( clay 
<mailto:clay >  preferred), and I'll test them tonight and confirm
availability on a first-come first-served basis.  No quantity discounts,
sorry! 
 
Thanks,
-Clay
 
P.S.  I have a stack of marquees I need to sell too.  Includes really nice
Star Trek, Omega Race, Armor Attack and non-vector ones.  11 total, all for
$100 plus shipping.  E-mail if you'd like to see pictures.

From Rcpilot2u  Wed Dec  1 14:36:18 1999
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Subject: Re: 6100 rev swaps
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I never saw any docs on the cap removal. I have 2 pcbs that wiggle bad. This 
is my next try. 


Charles

From Rcpilot2u  Wed Dec  1 14:37:04 1999
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Subject: Re: 6100 rev swaps
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Did the trip circuit really do any good on the later revs (2and 3) ? What 
does rev 3
have? Never seen a rev 3..



Charles

From mypearl@dds.nl Wed Dec  1 14:57:06 1999
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Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 21:54:47 +0100
From: Tek <mypearl@dds.nl>
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You know the game: a game board (ofcourse would this be an Atari vector
again...:) ) is broken, has the weirdest video effects.

You start to do the regular job; poking around with a scope and
datalogger...
You cannot seem to find the fault, this must be again a problem nobody
ever saw before and it probably is a comination of the most unlikely
things to happen (bacause this board belongs to you ofcourse)...

Then someday I read somewhere that yuo could be SURE a TTL IC (gosh, is
there anyting else in Tempest :) is GOOD as soon as it reads normal
junction drop from the ground pin to any other!

Have I been very stupid by not knowing this or what? I wouldn't mind if
this was true... :)

This is where you can read about it:
http://randyfromm.com/techdept/Randy_Fromms_Arcade_School/general_electronics/how_components_fail/how_components_fail.htm

Cya !

From mypearl@dds.nl Wed Dec  1 15:17:43 1999
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Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 22:15:49 +0100
From: Tek <mypearl@dds.nl>
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Subject: Re: Anyone need a solder/desolder station?
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Like I said, why is the cool stuff always in America $$&*% !!! :)

Now I have to bother my boss time over time to bring all my game boards
tom my workplace... :)

Clay Cowgill wrote:
> 
> Step right up, step right up!  have I got a deal for you! ;-)
>

From mypearl@dds.nl Wed Dec  1 15:17:43 1999
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Subject: Re: Something cool I didn't realize about Tempest
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Eric Clayberg wrote:
> 
> >I've looked through the manual, but I can only find the FREEZE DEMO mode
> >to zoom down all levels.
> 
> Actually, demo and freeze mode are independent of one another and can be
> invoked separately. Having a front mounted freeze switch comes in really
> handy when the phone rings while you are playing a normal game. BTW, there
> are lots of games out there with freeze modes like this (Star Wars and Tron
> come to mind).

You are right about this. I use this feature when nature calls... :)

> >They did not talk about the ability to actually play these.
> >so I guess I've never bothered.
> 
> You can play the levels just fine in demo mode...with the added ability to
> "escape" at any time by hitting the start button. The only downside to demo
> mode is that it does not record scores.

Cool - I've tried allready and it is really cool... I'll never 'not try'
a jumper again! :)

Cya !

From m-schulz  Wed Dec  1 15:37:42 1999
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From: "Michael Schulz" <m-schulz >
To: <vectorlist >
Subject: RE: Anyone need a solder/desolder station?
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 15:40:55 -0600
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> Ok, this is a blatant "forsale" post, but I'm going to sell these quite
> cheap and they are really nice for working on vector boards (or most any
> other boards) so I hope nobody minds...
>  

It was only about three months ago that Joe reminded everyone
that the official vectorlist policy is:

  "Vectorlist is for technical discussions about vector-based 
   arcade games.  Everything else (including commerce-related stuff)
   is off-topic."


Has this changed since then?


From chris  Wed Dec  1 15:49:41 1999
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From: "Christopher X. Candreva" <chris >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: RE: Anyone need a solder/desolder station?
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On Wed, 1 Dec 1999, Michael Schulz wrote:

>    arcade games.  Everything else (including commerce-related stuff)
>    is off-topic."
> 
> 
> Has this changed since then?

I think there was a special dispensation in there for Clay's multigame kits 
and other goodies. :-)

-Chris.

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris  -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/

From awilson  Wed Dec  1 15:52:28 1999
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Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 13:52:12 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199912012152.NAA03181 >
From: Andrew Wilson <awilson >
To: vectorlist 
In-reply-to: <003a01bf3c44$bf8b8de0$980a0a0a >
        (m-schulz )
Subject: Not another discussion about the list rules!?!?!
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        Oh, please, god, don't let this turn into another week-long open
discussion on acceptable vectorlist posts. Pleeeeeeease...

                                Drew

   From: "Michael Schulz" <m-schulz >
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   > Ok, this is a blatant "forsale" post, but I'm going to sell these quite
   > cheap and they are really nice for working on vector boards (or most any
   > other boards) so I hope nobody minds...
   >  

   It was only about three months ago that Joe reminded everyone
   that the official vectorlist policy is:

     "Vectorlist is for technical discussions about vector-based 
      arcade games.  Everything else (including commerce-related stuff)
      is off-topic."


   Has this changed since then?



        



From jess  Wed Dec  1 15:52:36 1999
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From: Jess Askey <jess >
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Clay was giving the vectorlist advance notice and an exclusive price which gives him
rights to post them here. Plus, Clay has donated so much to the vectorlist in terms of
techie stuff that if we were to kick him off , the list may become lame. ;-)

Michael Schulz wrote:
> 
> > Ok, this is a blatant "forsale" post, but I'm going to sell these quite
> > cheap and they are really nice for working on vector boards (or most any
> > other boards) so I hope nobody minds...
> >
> 
> It was only about three months ago that Joe reminded everyone
> that the official vectorlist policy is:
> 
>   "Vectorlist is for technical discussions about vector-based
>    arcade games.  Everything else (including commerce-related stuff)
>    is off-topic."
> 
> Has this changed since then?

From chris  Wed Dec  1 15:57:00 1999
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From: "Christopher X. Candreva" <chris >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: Anyone need a solder/desolder station?
In-Reply-To: <38459900.E305C14F >
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On Wed, 1 Dec 1999, Jess Askey wrote:

> techie stuff that if we were to kick him off , the list may become lame. ;-)

s/may/would definately/


-Chris

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris  -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/

From tomm  Wed Dec  1 16:00:41 1999
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I think you have a very good point there...



"Christopher X. Candreva" wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 1 Dec 1999, Michael Schulz wrote:
> 
> >    arcade games.  Everything else (including commerce-related stuff)
> >    is off-topic."
> >
> >
> > Has this changed since then?
> 
> I think there was a special dispensation in there for Clay's multigame kits
> and other goodies. :-)
> 
> -Chris.
> 
> ==========================================================
> Chris Candreva  -- chris  -- (914) 967-7816
> WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
> http://www.westnet.com/

From m-schulz  Wed Dec  1 16:05:53 1999
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From: "Michael Schulz" <m-schulz >
To: <vectorlist >
Subject: RE: Anyone need a solder/desolder station?
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:09:04 -0600
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> I think there was a special dispensation in there for Clay's 
> multigame kits and other goodies. :-)
> 

Items such as multigame kits and custom replacements for vector videogame 
parts do have a valid exception.  Desoldering stations do not.

If it was permissible to sell test/repair equipment on the list, then
there are several people on the list who would have done so already...


From mypearl@dds.nl Wed Dec  1 16:09:22 1999
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From: Tek <mypearl@dds.nl>
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So you would say this is an average, ordinary forsale, just like any
others?

Michael Schulz wrote:
> 
> > Ok, this is a blatant "forsale" post, but I'm going to sell these quite
> > cheap and they are really nice for working on vector boards (or most any
> > other boards) so I hope nobody minds...
> >
> 
> It was only about three months ago that Joe reminded everyone
> that the official vectorlist policy is:
> 
>   "Vectorlist is for technical discussions about vector-based
>    arcade games.  Everything else (including commerce-related stuff)
>    is off-topic."
> 
> Has this changed since then?

From m-schulz  Wed Dec  1 16:13:00 1999
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From: "Michael Schulz" <m-schulz >
To: <vectorlist >
Subject: RE: Anyone need a solder/desolder station?
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:16:14 -0600
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> Clay was giving the vectorlist advance notice and an exclusive
> price which gives him rights to post them here. Plus, Clay has
> donated so much to the vectorlist in terms of techie stuff that
> if we were to kick him off , the list may become lame. ;-)
>

Who said anything about kicking him off the list?  I just mentioned that the
list policy prohibits forsale posts of that particular type.

If the policy changes, then that's fine.  There are several people here
who'd like to see forsale traffic on the list.  If not, then that's fine
too, but everyone needs to abide by the same policy.


From m-schulz  Wed Dec  1 16:13:48 1999
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From: "Michael Schulz" <m-schulz >
To: <vectorlist >
Subject: RE: Not another discussion about the list rules!?!?!
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:17:04 -0600
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Sorry, it's too late... ;-)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-vectorlist 
> [mailto:owner-vectorlist ]On Behalf Of Andrew Wilson
> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 3:52 PM
> To: vectorlist 
> Subject: Not another discussion about the list rules!?!?!
> 
> 
> 
>         Oh, please, god, don't let this turn into another week-long open
> discussion on acceptable vectorlist posts. Pleeeeeeease...
> 
>                                 Drew
> 
>    From: "Michael Schulz" <m-schulz >
>    Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 15:40:55 -0600
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>            charset="iso-8859-1"
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> 
> 
>    > Ok, this is a blatant "forsale" post, but I'm going to sell 
> these quite
>    > cheap and they are really nice for working on vector boards 
> (or most any
>    > other boards) so I hope nobody minds...
>    >  
> 
>    It was only about three months ago that Joe reminded everyone
>    that the official vectorlist policy is:
> 
>      "Vectorlist is for technical discussions about vector-based 
>       arcade games.  Everything else (including commerce-related stuff)
>       is off-topic."
> 
> 
>    Has this changed since then?
> 
> 
> 
>         
> 
> 
> 

From ClayC  Wed Dec  1 16:17:06 1999
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Message-ID: <E5301D1C721BD21181990008C7FA16F2A51BD9 >
From: Clay Cowgill <ClayC >
To: "'vectorlist '" <vectorlist >
Subject: RE: Anyone need a solder/desolder station?
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:16:51 -0800 
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> It was only about three months ago that Joe reminded everyone
> that the official vectorlist policy is:
> 
>   "Vectorlist is for technical discussions about vector-based 
>    arcade games.  Everything else (including commerce-related stuff)
>    is off-topic."

Ummmmmm...  Well officer, I don't think this car can go that fast... and I
didn't see the light change...  and those children weren't in the street
when I went by...  and, uhhhh, I'm new to this state...   And ummmm...  the
accelerator stuck!
 
My humble apologies to the list.  I thought the equipment would be of
sufficient general interest in repair and rework of game hardware as not to
ruffle any feathers.

(There's been 7 of the desoldering stations spoken for at this point, so
I'll call them all sold until I can test them out.  Thanks.)

The fabulous selection of VECTOR marquees (and others) is still available
though. ;-)

-Clay

From m-schulz  Wed Dec  1 16:18:50 1999
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From: "Michael Schulz" <m-schulz >
To: <vectorlist >
Subject: RE: Anyone need a solder/desolder station?
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:22:04 -0600
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> So you would say this is an average, ordinary forsale, just like any
> others?
> 
Yes, I would say so.

Was there something in particular that I missed in this post 
that differentiated it from any other xyz.forsale newsgroup post of 
used/surplus/whatever desoldering stations for sale?


From jhendrix  Wed Dec  1 16:19:18 1999
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From: jeff hendrix <jhendrix >
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Burn him, burn him. or give me one for free ;-)

-----Original Message-----
From: Jess Askey [mailto:jess ]
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 2:54 PM
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: Anyone need a solder/desolder station?


Clay was giving the vectorlist advance notice and an exclusive price which
gives him
rights to post them here. Plus, Clay has donated so much to the vectorlist
in terms of
techie stuff that if we were to kick him off , the list may become lame. ;-)

Michael Schulz wrote:
> 
> > Ok, this is a blatant "forsale" post, but I'm going to sell these quite
> > cheap and they are really nice for working on vector boards (or most any
> > other boards) so I hope nobody minds...
> >
> 
> It was only about three months ago that Joe reminded everyone
> that the official vectorlist policy is:
> 
>   "Vectorlist is for technical discussions about vector-based
>    arcade games.  Everything else (including commerce-related stuff)
>    is off-topic."
> 
> Has this changed since then?

From Rcpilot2u  Wed Dec  1 16:26:13 1999
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Subject: multi Tempest
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Clay are you still offering the multi Tempest?


Charles

From m-schulz  Wed Dec  1 16:30:52 1999
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From: "Michael Schulz" <m-schulz >
To: <vectorlist >
Subject: RE: Anyone need a solder/desolder station?
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:34:07 -0600
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> My humble apologies to the list.  I thought the equipment would be of
> sufficient general interest in repair and rework of game hardware 
> as not to ruffle any feathers.
> 
Hey, personally I'd prefer to see the list open up to forsale posts.  
There are a number of people here who have plenty of test/repair
equipment, boards, marquees, etc. that they'd love to sell, and a 
whole bunch of people who'd love to buy it.  I was against the whole
"no forsale" policy in the beginning.  But, rules are rules...

From jacobvids  Wed Dec  1 16:46:31 1999
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From: "first anme last name" <jacobvids >
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Subject: RE: Selling Items on VL
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Hey,

Im feeling a little vahclimped. Discuss amongst youselves. I'll give you a 
tahpic.....
I understand the consensus that this list could go haywire if FS posts are 
allowed, but I for one kind of miss them. Can't we have some sort of 
compromise on this issue? Like maybe 1 day a month when we can list items 
for sale? Otherwise, they just all go to eBay and minimise one of the 
benefits of being on this list. Comments?

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From matt  Wed Dec  1 16:46:46 1999
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I think we should think of a nice punishment for Clay.  I know, Clay
*must* design a multi-compatible sound board for his Sega Multi-Game.
Yeah - that'll teach him not to send out emails that gives vectorlist
subscribers special deals on stuff that might be of interest to the group
as a whole.   errr... wait - was that part of the accepable list policy?

Joe?

Matt



_____________________________________________________________________

On Wed, 1 Dec 1999, Clay Cowgill wrote:

> > It was only about three months ago that Joe reminded everyone
> > that the official vectorlist policy is:
> > 
> >   "Vectorlist is for technical discussions about vector-based 
> >    arcade games.  Everything else (including commerce-related stuff)
> >    is off-topic."
> 
> Ummmmmm...  Well officer, I don't think this car can go that fast... and I
> didn't see the light change...  and those children weren't in the street
> when I went by...  and, uhhhh, I'm new to this state...   And ummmm...  the
> accelerator stuck!
>  
> My humble apologies to the list.  I thought the equipment would be of
> sufficient general interest in repair and rework of game hardware as not to
> ruffle any feathers.
> 
> (There's been 7 of the desoldering stations spoken for at this point, so
> I'll call them all sold until I can test them out.  Thanks.)
> 
> The fabulous selection of VECTOR marquees (and others) is still available
> though. ;-)
> 
> -Clay
> 
> 

From jess  Wed Dec  1 16:57:32 1999
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Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 15:56:55 -0700
From: Jess Askey <jess >
Subject: Re: Anyone need a solder/desolder station?
To: vectorlist 
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Michael Schulz wrote:
> Who said anything about kicking him off the list?  I just mentioned that the
> list policy prohibits forsale posts of that particular type.

(Sorry Chris).  I think the official rule is this... 

   no for sale post, ebay adverts. If the for sale is *exclusive* to the vectorlist
and a price break given to vectorlisters and the item is vector related (soldering
on vector board fer instance), then it is allowed. 


Like Roy's overlays... vector related, price break for us and I don't think they are on
RGVAC (but Im not sure since I don't look anymore). Roy + overlays + vectorlist = Happy
Vectorlisters! :-)

I think many people like to see stuff for sale here because it is close group of vector
collectors. but we don't want 6 posts a day from people selling off junk. I think it is
more of a personal judgement for the individual posting the info.

Clay also had some Vector Marquee's in the same post which made a bit more vector related
as well. He also, sort of apologized up front on his post.

I think we need a vectorlist FAQ. Paul.... Can I please write one? Can majordomo put a
generic footer on all vectorlist posts that has a link to it? I think that would really
cut down on some basic questions that *always* come up.

jess

From batlzone@cyberenet.net Wed Dec  1 17:17:11 1999
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Here is my take on this.  I think the current "No for sale ads" is a good
policy.  Considering I'm more of a lurker, I think it cuts down on the Signal
to Noise ratio.  Most for sale ads that do make it on here usually do so as
project info posts that end with "They're ready, they will ship for $XX.XX
each.

Clay is an invaluable resource (and my hero).  For him, a bending of the rules
is in order.  I don't think this was innapropriate.  Quite the opposite.  It
was a special deal for the loyal readers of the list.  I don't think I have
the right to do something like this, but I'm down with Clay doing it.

-Al-

PS - MULTIGAME.COM should be called MULTILAME.COM since Clay decided to lay
low.  I understand why, it just sucks.  He's still my hero though.

first anme last name wrote:

> Hey,
>
> Im feeling a little vahclimped. Discuss amongst youselves. I'll give you a
> tahpic.....
> I understand the consensus that this list could go haywire if FS posts are
> allowed, but I for one kind of miss them. Can't we have some sort of
> compromise on this issue? Like maybe 1 day a month when we can list items
> for sale? Otherwise, they just all go to eBay and minimise one of the
> benefits of being on this list. Comments?
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

--
 =====================================================================
-=               Al Warner batlzone@cyberenet.net                    =-
-= Learn how to install a Cap Kit in your video game's monitor and   =-
-= see a whole lot more on my web page at:                           =-
-=               http://www.cyberenet.net/~batlzone                  =-
 =====================================================================



From zonn  Wed Dec  1 17:45:38 1999
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From: Zonn <zonn >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: Selling Items on VL
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 15:48:43 -0800
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On Wed, 01 Dec 1999 22:45:45 GMT, you wrote:

>Hey,
>
>Im feeling a little vahclimped. Discuss amongst youselves. I'll give you a 
>tahpic.....
>I understand the consensus that this list could go haywire if FS posts are 
>allowed, but I for one kind of miss them. Can't we have some sort of 
>compromise on this issue? Like maybe 1 day a month when we can list items 
>for sale? Otherwise, they just all go to eBay and minimise one of the 
>benefits of being on this list. Comments?

A benefit of being on this list is *not* being spammed!  Not the
opposite.

What is there to miss?  It's not like you can't go to the net and find
things for sale (RGVAC, RGVAM, eBay, Yahoo, Buy.com, etc).

This list has a large subscription rate because of the very high S/N
ratio (very few, if any adds).

RGVAC was once like this, a great place to go for technical advice.  

I'm under the belief that if the FS posts had stayed off of RGVAC,
vectorlist would never have become as popular as it has.  I for one
only read RGVAC occasionally now (through a huge FS/FA/ETC filter),
where once I followed it daily.  Too noisy.

This would be an interesting experiment.  Let's say vectorlist allows
adds, I then start a new mailing list (vectorlist++ or something), all
I do is repost all messages from vectorlist, excluding adds.  (And of
course it would accept direct posts that were not advertisements.)

How many would leave vectorlist and go to vectorlist++?

One of the reasons vectorlist is popular is the lack of adds.  Of
course one of the things most attractive to a seller is popularity.

If someone here is really itchin' to advertise, just go post it on
RGVAC, wasn't that what the RGVAC/RGVAM fight was all about?  Or will
we have to just keep running from spam by starting YASFML (Yet Another
Spam Free Mailing List.)

-Zonn

From mowerman  Wed Dec  1 18:04:20 1999
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Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 18:56:00 -0500
From: Kev <mowerman >
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first anme last name wrote:

Comments?

Well I guess I missed out on a solder station....

JR just created a new mailing list for test equipment, would it have been
better if Clay posted there?

Is it a fair consensus among the readers here that those inclined to also do
repair would follow JR's new mailing list (TTL)  (I'm assuming that his list
also allows FS providing it is tech tool related.)

Let's not get in a huff, just resolve the issue (however slight).
--
Kev                    Mowerman     >>REMOVE THE ? to REPLY

Looking for Pac-Man related hacks & Video Game

Coin Op Page ->  http://www.erols.com/mowerman


From matt  Wed Dec  1 18:21:20 1999
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I've always thought it was quite clear that selling items on vectorlist
was acceptable as long as the items are unique or would be in the general
interest of the list and a discount is offered.  So - saying "Hey I've got
a dead asteroids that I want to get rid of for $500" is not appropriate -
but maybe "I've got a mint condition Cosmic Chasm that I'm offering to
those on this list for $500 where I would normally ask $900".

Even the CPO's are being offered here on this list and no one has argued
yet.

Maybe it's just one of those issues we need to revisit every 6 months or
so.  :\


Matt




_____________________________________________________________________

On Wed, 1 Dec 1999, Kev wrote:

> 
> 
> first anme last name wrote:
> 
> Comments?
> 
> Well I guess I missed out on a solder station....
> 
> JR just created a new mailing list for test equipment, would it have been
> better if Clay posted there?
> 
> Is it a fair consensus among the readers here that those inclined to also do
> repair would follow JR's new mailing list (TTL)  (I'm assuming that his list
> also allows FS providing it is tech tool related.)
> 
> Let's not get in a huff, just resolve the issue (however slight).
> --
> Kev                    Mowerman     >>REMOVE THE ? to REPLY
> 
> Looking for Pac-Man related hacks & Video Game
> 
> Coin Op Page ->  http://www.erols.com/mowerman
> 
> 

From jwelser  Wed Dec  1 19:41:16 1999
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On Wed, 1 Dec 1999, first anme last name wrote:

> I understand the consensus that this list could go haywire if FS posts are 
> allowed, but I for one kind of miss them. Can't we have some sort of 
> compromise on this issue? Like maybe 1 day a month when we can list items 
> for sale? Otherwise, they just all go to eBay and minimise one of the 
> benefits of being on this list. Comments?
> 

	Wow, I log off to actually do some work, and look what happens!

	First of all,"First anme last name," I'm not sure how or why you
"miss" for sale posts, because they were NEVER really allowed.

	NOW, onto the forever tricky subject of for sale posts on
vectorlist......I want the list to remain dedicated to technical
discussions about vector-based arcade games.  I still believe that
minimizing the amount of for sale traffic is necessary to maintain
a good SNR.  There are plenty of places to find stuff for sale --
this doesn't have to be one of them.  Nevertheless, most people
know that just about any for sale post has been tolerated in the past,
and some have taken advantage of this.

	I think Clay's intentions were good, but I think that his
post was still not appropriate for the list......but not by much.  The
problem is, and has always been, that there is no real "quantitative"
way to define what is and what isn't appropriate for the list.  Let's
leave it at this:  If you are thinking of advertising something on this
list, and there is any doubt in your mind as to whether or not it is
appropriate, DON'T post it, because it's probably not appropriate.

	In the past, the participants of this list have done a good job
of keeping themselves in check, and policing themselves, and I'd like it 
to stay that way.  However, if I feel that an SNR problem is developing
due to excessive for sale traffic, I will probably make the list so that
it is retro/robo moderated.  Essentially what this means is that all posts
are approved by default, but that a list of "problem" posters can be
made that have to be moderated first.

	If you were expecting any major words of wisdom, or any serious
policy change, I'm sorry to disappoint you.  Let's just get back to
"business" as usual, and try and keep it on topic.

Thanks,

Joe

P.S.  If you're wondering why I used "I" a lot, instead of "we" (i.e. Paul
and I are supposed to be co-owners of the list,) as far as I can tell,
Paul is still having some problems with his email account, and is not
getting list messages.  So, for the meantime, I guess it's just me running
the show -- Muhahahahahaha   ;-)

------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph J. Welser                       jwelser 
Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation
Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin	
Work:  jwelser 
P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX  78760
------------------------------------------------------------------



From Burbs1@concentric.net Wed Dec  1 20:06:17 1999
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From: Mark E Davidson <Burbs1@concentric.net>
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What makes you think I ever owned a Mini tempest?

-=Mark=-

Rcpilot2u  wrote:

> Clay are you still offering the multi Tempest?
>
> Charles

From chumblespuzz  Wed Dec  1 20:14:31 1999
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<rant>

Well, what about my CPOs? Aside from Crystal Castles (which I needed for my
macine) all my CPOs have been for vector games. All of them have been
produced to help restore vector machines, and some of them have been done to
help specific VL subscribers (such as the dedicated Major Havoc and
Gravitar).

I certainly don't do this for the profit (if you can even call it that). Do
you know how many people responded to my post for Gravitar CPOs? *Z*E*R*O*
!!! Sure, Simon will take one ;) and one other VL'er agreed to take one
before the post, but do you think I will ever recoupe my time on this? Of
course not. I never expected to. I do this to help all of us.

I wish that the actual production for these was free. Then I'd just give
them away. But it's not so I can't. Do you think that if it cost Clay or
Zonn to give such good advice it would be given away so freely? Fortunately
for all of us, their skills can be expressed in words. Mine requires some
capital. What good would it be for anyone if I redrew the art and just made
bitmaps of it, never actually producing the CPOs?

What about the new vector monitor project? Lot's of people here have
contributed to it. Once these are produced should they not be offered first
to the VL (at a discounted price, I hope)?

If you all think that it's wrong to for me to "sell" CPOs on the VL, then
I'll stop. Sure I could make more on them on RGVAC, but I truly value the
information I get on the vector list and I just want to give something back.

I don't think that everything should be available for sale on the VL, but
where there is a clear benefit to the group for vector related items it
should be considered. Perhaps there should be a VLFS gatekeeper. All FS
posts should go through him first, and if deemed appropriate then passed on
to the list. It'd be an ugly job, and I sure wouldn't want it.

</rant>

-roy-


From shag  Wed Dec  1 20:54:11 1999
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From: "Simon Whittam" <shag >
To: "'vectorlist '" <vectorlist >
Subject: RE: Selling Items on VL
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:53:22 -0600
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Damn, now I feel all guilty for asking you to consider doing a 
Gravitar CPO.   :-(   I thought for sure, if you did a BW, that
a Gravitar would be in-demand.   Who knew?

I guess asking for a Berzerk CPO and Venture CPO is now
out of the question ... woops (those arn't v-e-c-t-o-r games)!
Me bad.

I for one think you're doing a great service to the hobby and
offering CPOs (vector even) to the group is beyond reproach.
Rant as you will but remember some (if not most) of us appreciate what
you're doing (for profit or not).  I don't think its breaking the
charter.  Damn if I had a few extra soldering stations, I'd sell
them first to people who "love" the hobby as I do ... instead
of to the masses who don't give a damn about why my 
Asteroids are all "wavy" or why my SW keeps giving me
mathbox errors ...

Anyway, just be glad you're not a "duck".  :-)  [Replace the
"d" with "f" if you wish].

  SPW
  Kanata, On
  CANADA

<my time to rant>
p.s.  Go bad and do what every other money grubbin' bastard
is doing, and sell them to the highest bidder on Ebay.  Screw
the hobby, who !@#$'n cares!!!  
<end of rant, I feel better, sorry if I bugg'd anyone here - me have bad day
today>

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	chumblespuzz [SMTP:chumblespuzz ]
> Sent:	Wednesday, December 01, 1999 9:12 PM
> To:	vectorlist
> Subject:	Re: Selling Items on VL
> 
> <rant>
> 
> Well, what about my CPOs? Aside from Crystal Castles (which I needed for
> my
> macine) all my CPOs have been for vector games. All of them have been
> produced to help restore vector machines, and some of them have been done
> to
> help specific VL subscribers (such as the dedicated Major Havoc and
> Gravitar).
> 
> I certainly don't do this for the profit (if you can even call it that).
> Do
> you know how many people responded to my post for Gravitar CPOs? *Z*E*R*O*
> !!! Sure, Simon will take one ;) and one other VL'er agreed to take one
> before the post, but do you think I will ever recoupe my time on this? Of
> course not. I never expected to. I do this to help all of us.
> 
> I wish that the actual production for these was free. Then I'd just give
> them away. But it's not so I can't. Do you think that if it cost Clay or
> Zonn to give such good advice it would be given away so freely?
> Fortunately
> for all of us, their skills can be expressed in words. Mine requires some
> capital. What good would it be for anyone if I redrew the art and just
> made
> bitmaps of it, never actually producing the CPOs?
> 
> What about the new vector monitor project? Lot's of people here have
> contributed to it. Once these are produced should they not be offered
> first
> to the VL (at a discounted price, I hope)?
> 
> If you all think that it's wrong to for me to "sell" CPOs on the VL, then
> I'll stop. Sure I could make more on them on RGVAC, but I truly value the
> information I get on the vector list and I just want to give something
> back.
> 
> I don't think that everything should be available for sale on the VL, but
> where there is a clear benefit to the group for vector related items it
> should be considered. Perhaps there should be a VLFS gatekeeper. All FS
> posts should go through him first, and if deemed appropriate then passed
> on
> to the list. It'd be an ugly job, and I sure wouldn't want it.
> 
> </rant>
> 
> -roy-
> 

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2448.0">
<TITLE>RE: Selling Items on VL</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Damn, now I feel all =
guilty for asking you to consider doing a </FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Gravitar =
CPO.&nbsp;&nbsp; :-(&nbsp;&nbsp; I thought for sure, if you did a BW, =
that</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">a Gravitar would be =
in-demand.&nbsp;&nbsp; Who knew?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I guess asking for a =
Berzerk CPO and Venture CPO is now</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">out of the question =
... woops (those arn't v-e-c-t-o-r games)!</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Me bad.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I for one think =
you're doing a great service to the hobby and</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">offering CPOs =
(vector even) to the group is beyond reproach.</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Rant as you will =
but remember some (if not most) of us appreciate what</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">you're doing (for =
profit or not).&nbsp; I don't think its breaking the</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">charter.&nbsp; Damn =
if I had a few extra soldering stations, I'd sell</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">them first to =
people who &quot;love&quot; the hobby as I do ... instead</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">of to the masses =
who don't give a damn about why my </FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Asteroids are all =
&quot;wavy&quot; or why my SW keeps giving me</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">mathbox errors =
...</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Anyway, just be glad =
you're not a &quot;duck&quot;.&nbsp; :-)&nbsp; [Replace the</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&quot;d&quot; with =
&quot;f&quot; if you wish].</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&nbsp; SPW</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&nbsp; Kanata, =
On</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&nbsp; =
CANADA</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&lt;my time to =
rant&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">p.s.&nbsp; Go bad =
and do what every other money grubbin' bastard</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">is doing, and sell =
them to the highest bidder on Ebay.&nbsp; Screw</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">the hobby, who =
!@#$'n cares!!!&nbsp; </FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&lt;end of rant, I =
feel better, sorry if I bugg'd anyone here - me have bad day =
today&gt;</FONT>
</P>
<UL>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial"
From:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">chumblespuzz =
[SMTP:chumblespuzz ]</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Wednesday, December 01, 1999 9:12 PM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Arial">vectorlist</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Re: Selling Items on VL</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&lt;rant&gt;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Well, what about my CPOs? Aside from =
Crystal Castles (which I needed for my</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">macine) all my CPOs have been for =
vector games. All of them have been</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">produced to help restore vector =
machines, and some of them have been done to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">help specific VL subscribers (such as =
the dedicated Major Havoc and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Gravitar).</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I certainly don't do this for the =
profit (if you can even call it that). Do</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">you know how many people responded to =
my post for Gravitar CPOs? *Z*E*R*O*</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">!!! Sure, Simon will take one ;) and =
one other VL'er agreed to take one</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">before the post, but do you think I =
will ever recoupe my time on this? Of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">course not. I never expected to. I do =
this to help all of us.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I wish that the actual production for =
these was free. Then I'd just give</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">them away. But it's not so I can't. =
Do you think that if it cost Clay or</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Zonn to give such good advice it =
would be given away so freely? Fortunately</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">for all of us, their skills can be =
expressed in words. Mine requires some</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">capital. What good would it be for =
anyone if I redrew the art and just made</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">bitmaps of it, never actually =
producing the CPOs?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">What about the new vector monitor =
project? Lot's of people here have</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">contributed to it. Once these are =
produced should they not be offered first</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">to the VL (at a discounted price, I =
hope)?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">If you all think that it's wrong to =
for me to &quot;sell&quot; CPOs on the VL, then</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I'll stop. Sure I could make more on =
them on RGVAC, but I truly value the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">information I get on the vector list =
and I just want to give something back.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I don't think that everything should =
be available for sale on the VL, but</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">where there is a clear benefit to the =
group for vector related items it</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">should be considered. Perhaps there =
should be a VLFS gatekeeper. All FS</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">posts should go through him first, =
and if deemed appropriate then passed on</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">to the list. It'd be an ugly job, and =
I sure wouldn't want it.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&lt;/rant&gt;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-roy-</FONT>
</P>
</UL>
</BODY>
</HTML>
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From Rcpilot2u  Wed Dec  1 21:54:28 1999
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From: Rcpilot2u 
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Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:53:52 EST
Subject: Re: multi Tempest
To: vectorlist 
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Multi game Tempest kit.....


In a message dated 12/1/1999 9:16:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
Burbs1@concentric.net writes:

<< What makes you think I ever owned a Mini tempest?
 
 -=Mark=-
 
 Rcpilot2u  wrote:
 
 > Clay are you still offering the multi Tempest?
 >
 > Charles
 
  >>

From kmahan  Wed Dec  1 21:55:25 1999
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From: Kurt Mahan <kmahan >
Message-Id: <199912020355.UAA05609 >
Subject: Re: Gravitar CPOs - Ready for Pre-Order!
To: vectorlist 
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:55:22 -0700 (MST)
In-Reply-To: <006b01bf3b94$11d2f5e0$0a0ee418 > from "chumblespuzz" at Nov 30, 99 07:36:12 pm
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Hi!

Sorry to be so slow (I'm a loser)..  Sign me up for 1.  Oh yeah, I'm in for
1 or 2 reactors..  (actually, I've got have at least one of all your cpos --
since you're doing cool games that I'm gonna find sooner or later.. :)

The happiness is that we stop death marching on saturday.  (supposedly)..
Then I can get back interesting things..  Of course I was given permission
to take time out to fix the stick on the Mortal Kombat II I've got at the
office (amazing how addicted those people get -- I'm not even a fan of the
game.. :)

Kurt

> I have just received the proof for the Gravitar CPO from my printer and it
> is beautiful. You can check it out at:
> 
> http://members.home.net/chumblespuzz/images/gravitar_cpo_preview.jpg
> 
> The blues look washed out in the top picture, but that is because of the
> flash. The bottom picture was taken without the flash to show the blues
> better.
> 
> The Vector List price for these will be $55 each + $5 shipping. This price
> is good for one week from today. After that the price will go up to $65
> each.
> 
> If interested, please email me directly at chumblespuzz .
> 
> My next project is the Reactor CPO and is coming along nicely. I'll keep you
> all posted on the progress.
> 
> Thanks,
> -roy-
> 
> 

From awilson  Wed Dec  1 22:06:40 1999
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From: Andrew Wilson <awilson >
To: vectorlist 
In-reply-to: <199912020355.UAA05609 > (message from Kurt
        Mahan on Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:55:22 -0700 (MST))
Subject: Re: Gravitar CPOs - Ready for Pre-Order!
References:  <199912020355.UAA05609 >
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        OK, time to sic the Retro/robo-moderator on Kurt ;-P

                        Drew

   From: Kurt Mahan <kmahan >
   Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:55:22 -0700 (MST)
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   Hi!

   Sorry to be so slow (I'm a loser)..  Sign me up for 1.  Oh yeah, I'm in for
   1 or 2 reactors..  (actually, I've got have at least one of all your cpos --
   since you're doing cool games that I'm gonna find sooner or later.. :)

   The happiness is that we stop death marching on saturday.  (supposedly)..
   Then I can get back interesting things..  Of course I was given permission
   to take time out to fix the stick on the Mortal Kombat II I've got at the
   office (amazing how addicted those people get -- I'm not even a fan of the
   game.. :)

   Kurt

   > I have just received the proof for the Gravitar CPO from my printer and it
   > is beautiful. You can check it out at:
   > 
   > http://members.home.net/chumblespuzz/images/gravitar_cpo_preview.jpg
   > 
   > The blues look washed out in the top picture, but that is because of the
   > flash. The bottom picture was taken without the flash to show the blues
   > better.
   > 
   > The Vector List price for these will be $55 each + $5 shipping. This price
   > is good for one week from today. After that the price will go up to $65
   > each.
   > 
   > If interested, please email me directly at chumblespuzz .
   > 
   > My next project is the Reactor CPO and is coming along nicely. I'll keep you
   > all posted on the progress.
   > 
   > Thanks,
   > -roy-
   > 
   > 



From jrr  Wed Dec  1 22:33:20 1999
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X-Sender: flippers 
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Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 15:29:32 -0800
To: vectorlist 
From: John Robertson <jrr >
Subject: RE: Anyone need a solder/desolder station?
In-Reply-To: <003f01bf3c4c$2e154470$980a0a0a >
References: <E5301D1C721BD21181990008C7FA16F2A51BD9 >
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If you want to sell service equipment why not use my new list 
TechToolsList ? I know this is not vector, but maybe the 
discussion can end here...

John :-#)#

At 04:34 PM 12/1/1999 -0600, you wrote:

> > My humble apologies to the list.  I thought the equipment would be of
> > sufficient general interest in repair and rework of game hardware
> > as not to ruffle any feathers.
> >
>Hey, personally I'd prefer to see the list open up to forsale posts.
>There are a number of people here who have plenty of test/repair
>equipment, boards, marquees, etc. that they'd love to sell, and a
>whole bunch of people who'd love to buy it.  I was against the whole
>"no forsale" policy in the beginning.  But, rules are rules...


  John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
  Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
  http://www.flippers.com
         "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."    

From kmahan  Wed Dec  1 23:05:20 1999
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From: Kurt Mahan <kmahan >
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Subject: Re: Gravitar CPOs - Ready for Pre-Order!
To: vectorlist 
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*&##@*!

Sorry to spam the list.  I've been wondering when I was going to screw
up like this.  Guess it was good that it was a least sort of vector 
related. :)

Kurt

>         OK, time to sic the Retro/robo-moderator on Kurt ;-P
> 
>                         Drew
> 
>    From: Kurt Mahan <kmahan >
>    Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:55:22 -0700 (MST)
>    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> 

From FBowen  Thu Dec  2 10:00:21 1999
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From: FBowen 
Subject: RE: Selling Items on VL
To: vectorlist 
Cc: 
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:53:31 -0500
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I'm not trying to keep this thread going (REALLY!) but it will come up
again (and again and again and again).  Why?  Because the FS criteria is
SUBJECTIVE!

I too hardly ever read RGVAC anymore (except for the Clay & Mark Spaeth
threads.  They are really funny) because one must do a lot of work to find
the useful information.  But I would also like the possibility to share and
get good deals on ANYTHING that could conceivably be related to vector
videogames (parts, equipment, service, records, posters, etc).  A lot of
times I don't know that these things exist, so how can I look for them?

I propose we take the previous idea of only allowing them on one day a
month and add the requirement that the subject start with one string:
"COMMERCE:"  This would apply for anything to be sold, bought, traded,
beaten up, blended, given away, transmogrified, etc.  This would resolve
the issue with the subjective criteria and different people's
interpretations.  Then people could set up filters on the string and/or
delete all messages from the specified day if they choose.

HOWEVER, I would prefer to keep the list in it's current state than see it
turn into another RGVAC, if those are the only two choices.






jwelser   on 12/01/99 08:41:13 PM

Please respond to vectorlist Sent by:  owner-vectorlist 
To:   vectorlist 
cc:

Subject:  RE: Selling Items on VL


On Wed, 1 Dec 1999, first anme last name wrote:

> I understand the consensus that this list could go haywire if FS posts
are
> allowed, but I for one kind of miss them. Can't we have some sort of
> compromise on this issue? Like maybe 1 day a month when we can list items
> for sale? Otherwise, they just all go to eBay and minimise one of the
> benefits of being on this list. Comments?
>

     I think Clay's intentions were good, but I think that his
post was still not appropriate for the list......but not by much.  The
problem is, and has always been, that there is no real "quantitative"
way to define what is and what isn't appropriate for the list.  Let's
leave it at this:  If you are thinking of advertising something on this
list, and there is any doubt in your mind as to whether or not it is
appropriate, DON'T post it, because it's probably not appropriate.


From sozdemir  Thu Dec  2 10:17:43 1999
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Message-ID: <D718BF02627CD3119A8200902799EACAA54D92 >
From: "Ozdemir, Steven S, GOVMK" <sozdemir >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: RE: Selling Items on VL
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:16:39 -0600 
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G'day folks,

Adding commerce related topics to any discussion starts the group down a
slippery slope.  I remember a time (almost a decade ago) when RGV/RGVA/RGVAC
and the rest of the newsgroups actively discouraged any type of "business"
from advertising.  

I support Joe's current policy regarding commerce on the vector list.

            Steve Ozdemir
            sozdemir 

ps - Perhaps a new "Vector FS" list could be made instead of adding FS to
the existing vector list.  I, for one, won't subscribe to any new FS list,
but others may be willing to slog through the noise to find the occasional
"rare item at a reasonable price".

Also, I'm curious if a new FS list would flourish...supposedly RGVAM was
suppose to serve this need?  <ducking for cover now>

-----Original Message-----
From: FBowen ]
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 10:54 AM
To: vectorlist 
Subject: RE: Selling Items on VL



I'm not trying to keep this thread going (REALLY!) but it will come up
again (and again and again and again).  Why?  Because the FS criteria is
SUBJECTIVE!

I too hardly ever read RGVAC anymore (except for the Clay & Mark Spaeth
threads.  They are really funny) because one must do a lot of work to find
the useful information.  But I would also like the possibility to share and
get good deals on ANYTHING that could conceivably be related to vector
videogames (parts, equipment, service, records, posters, etc).  A lot of
times I don't know that these things exist, so how can I look for them?

I propose we take the previous idea of only allowing them on one day a
month and add the requirement that the subject start with one string:
"COMMERCE:"  This would apply for anything to be sold, bought, traded,
beaten up, blended, given away, transmogrified, etc.  This would resolve
the issue with the subjective criteria and different people's
interpretations.  Then people could set up filters on the string and/or
delete all messages from the specified day if they choose.

HOWEVER, I would prefer to keep the list in it's current state than see it
turn into another RGVAC, if those are the only two choices.






jwelser   on 12/01/99 08:41:13 PM

Please respond to vectorlist Sent by:  owner-vectorlist 
To:   vectorlist 
cc:

Subject:  RE: Selling Items on VL


On Wed, 1 Dec 1999, first anme last name wrote:

> I understand the consensus that this list could go haywire if FS posts
are
> allowed, but I for one kind of miss them. Can't we have some sort of
> compromise on this issue? Like maybe 1 day a month when we can list items
> for sale? Otherwise, they just all go to eBay and minimise one of the
> benefits of being on this list. Comments?
>

     I think Clay's intentions were good, but I think that his
post was still not appropriate for the list......but not by much.  The
problem is, and has always been, that there is no real "quantitative"
way to define what is and what isn't appropriate for the list.  Let's
leave it at this:  If you are thinking of advertising something on this
list, and there is any doubt in your mind as to whether or not it is
appropriate, DON'T post it, because it's probably not appropriate.

From matt  Thu Dec  2 10:33:28 1999
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From: Matt Rossiter - Verio Southern California <matt >
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To: vectorlist 
Subject: RE: Selling Items on VL
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I agree with this.  - and I don't think we need to change anything, things
are going pretty much fine.  Seeing information about CPO and multi-game
production runs and discounts is absolutely fine by me because I feel the
purpose of this list is to keep these games preserved.  <presidential
music now comes in to enhance speech>....

Seriously - the major problem is, and always has been the initial
finger-pointing from people that aren't the moderators. That's how these
threads get started.  I think that there should definitely be rule against
*this* in particular.  If there is a problem that needs to be addressed,
I'd recommend privately sending an email to Joe and leave it at that.  
Bringing stuff to the open *ALWAYS* causes problems.

Now back to vector discussions......

Matt


_____________________________________________________________________

On Thu, 2 Dec 1999, Ozdemir, Steven S, GOVMK wrote:

> G'day folks,
> 
> Adding commerce related topics to any discussion starts the group down a
> slippery slope.  I remember a time (almost a decade ago) when RGV/RGVA/RGVAC
> and the rest of the newsgroups actively discouraged any type of "business"
> from advertising.  
> 
> I support Joe's current policy regarding commerce on the vector list.
> 
>             Steve Ozdemir
>             sozdemir 
> 
> ps - Perhaps a new "Vector FS" list could be made instead of adding FS to
> the existing vector list.  I, for one, won't subscribe to any new FS list,
> but others may be willing to slog through the noise to find the occasional
> "rare item at a reasonable price".
> 
> Also, I'm curious if a new FS list would flourish...supposedly RGVAM was
> suppose to serve this need?  <ducking for cover now>
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: FBowen ]
> Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 10:54 AM
> To: vectorlist 
> Subject: RE: Selling Items on VL
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to keep this thread going (REALLY!) but it will come up
> again (and again and again and again).  Why?  Because the FS criteria is
> SUBJECTIVE!
> 
> I too hardly ever read RGVAC anymore (except for the Clay & Mark Spaeth
> threads.  They are really funny) because one must do a lot of work to find
> the useful information.  But I would also like the possibility to share and
> get good deals on ANYTHING that could conceivably be related to vector
> videogames (parts, equipment, service, records, posters, etc).  A lot of
> times I don't know that these things exist, so how can I look for them?
> 
> I propose we take the previous idea of only allowing them on one day a
> month and add the requirement that the subject start with one string:
> "COMMERCE:"  This would apply for anything to be sold, bought, traded,
> beaten up, blended, given away, transmogrified, etc.  This would resolve
> the issue with the subjective criteria and different people's
> interpretations.  Then people could set up filters on the string and/or
> delete all messages from the specified day if they choose.
> 
> HOWEVER, I would prefer to keep the list in it's current state than see it
> turn into another RGVAC, if those are the only two choices.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jwelser   on 12/01/99 08:41:13 PM
> 
> Please respond to vectorlist 
> 
> Sent by:  owner-vectorlist 
> 
> 
> To:   vectorlist 
> cc:
> 
> Subject:  RE: Selling Items on VL
> 
> 
> On Wed, 1 Dec 1999, first anme last name wrote:
> 
> > I understand the consensus that this list could go haywire if FS posts
> are
> > allowed, but I for one kind of miss them. Can't we have some sort of
> > compromise on this issue? Like maybe 1 day a month when we can list items
> > for sale? Otherwise, they just all go to eBay and minimise one of the
> > benefits of being on this list. Comments?
> >
> 
>      I think Clay's intentions were good, but I think that his
> post was still not appropriate for the list......but not by much.  The
> problem is, and has always been, that there is no real "quantitative"
> way to define what is and what isn't appropriate for the list.  Let's
> leave it at this:  If you are thinking of advertising something on this
> list, and there is any doubt in your mind as to whether or not it is
> appropriate, DON'T post it, because it's probably not appropriate.
> 
> 

From jwelser  Thu Dec  2 10:37:46 1999
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:37:39 -0600 (CST)
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To: vectorlist 
Subject: RE: Selling Items on VL
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On Thu, 2 Dec 1999, Ozdemir, Steven S, GOVMK wrote:

> ps - Perhaps a new "Vector FS" list could be made instead of adding FS to
> the existing vector list.  I, for one, won't subscribe to any new FS list,
> but others may be willing to slog through the noise to find the occasional
> "rare item at a reasonable price".

	I was actually thinking of doing exactly that.  Initially, I would
subscribe everybody who is subscribed to the vectorlist, and people who
want to could unsubscribe at their leisure.

	In that case, the vectorlist policy would be changed to a more
objective, "No For Sale/WTB.  Period."

	Opinions?

Joe


From FBowen  Thu Dec  2 10:46:50 1999
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From: FBowen 
Subject: RE: Selling Items on VL
To: vectorlist 
Cc: 
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:45:30 -0500
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Two thumbs up!





jwelser   on 12/02/99 11:37:39 AM

Please respond to vectorlist Sent by:  owner-vectorlist 
To:   vectorlist 
cc:

Subject:  RE: Selling Items on VL


On Thu, 2 Dec 1999, Ozdemir, Steven S, GOVMK wrote:

> ps - Perhaps a new "Vector FS" list could be made instead of adding FS to
> the existing vector list.  I, for one, won't subscribe to any new FS
list,
> but others may be willing to slog through the noise to find the
occasional
> "rare item at a reasonable price".

     I was actually thinking of doing exactly that.  Initially, I would
subscribe everybody who is subscribed to the vectorlist, and people who
want to could unsubscribe at their leisure.

     In that case, the vectorlist policy would be changed to a more
objective, "No For Sale/WTB.  Period."

     Opinions?

Joe




From tomm  Thu Dec  2 11:07:52 1999
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delightful idea.


jwelser  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 2 Dec 1999, Ozdemir, Steven S, GOVMK wrote:
> 
> > ps - Perhaps a new "Vector FS" list could be made instead of adding FS to
> > the existing vector list.  I, for one, won't subscribe to any new FS list,
> > but others may be willing to slog through the noise to find the occasional
> > "rare item at a reasonable price".
> 
>         I was actually thinking of doing exactly that.  Initially, I would
> subscribe everybody who is subscribed to the vectorlist, and people who
> want to could unsubscribe at their leisure.
> 
>         In that case, the vectorlist policy would be changed to a more
> objective, "No For Sale/WTB.  Period."
> 
>         Opinions?
> 
> Joe

From cbright  Thu Dec  2 11:28:26 1999
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From: "Chris Bright" <cbright >
To: <vectorlist >
Subject: RE: Selling Items on VL
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 12:26:06 -0500
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Hi all,

Yes set it up, but could you make it a "Journal" type mailing list.

ie. all message for one day are saved up and sent out as one message at some
time (say 12 noon)

I don't want 10 (or so) messages a day about things forsale, but I'd LOVE
one to quickly go through.

Later,
Chris Bright

From jess  Thu Dec  2 11:43:30 1999
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Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 10:43:08 -0700
From: Jess Askey <jess >
Subject: Re: Selling Items on VL
To: vectorlist 
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I like the journal idea as well. :-)
 jess

Chris Bright wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Yes set it up, but could you make it a "Journal" type mailing list.
> 
> ie. all message for one day are saved up and sent out as one message at some
> time (say 12 noon)
> 
> I don't want 10 (or so) messages a day about things forsale, but I'd LOVE
> one to quickly go through.
> 
> Later,
> Chris Bright

From ClayC  Thu Dec  2 11:45:40 1999
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Subject: RE: Selling Items on VL
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:45:29 -0800 
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Hey Roy,

I'll take a Gravitar CPO. ;-)

-Clay

From ClayC  Thu Dec  2 11:50:46 1999
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From: Clay Cowgill <ClayC >
To: "'vectorlist '" <vectorlist >
Subject: RE: Selling Items on VL
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:50:32 -0800 
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Up to this point I've been using my own judgement on what I think is
applicable to post here.  We see discussion about desoldering equipment,
EPROM programmers, eBay practices, Newton's Method, raster image compression
and a bunch of "other" topics.  Sure, you can connect a thin line from any
of these to vector games ("I'm writing a vector game, I'm fixing a vector
game, I'm buying a vector game, I'm storing compressed docs of a vector
game") but you can do that with anything.  ("I have an antique pie rack that
makes a great holder for vector game boards for sale..."). 

I offered up the desoldering stations here because they were discussed
recently and I was willing to sell them cheap to the vectorlist people who
would probably like to have them. (Seeing as how they all sold in less time
that it took me to eat lunch I'd guess that at least some people thought it
was worthwhile.)

Is selling a Catbox here OK? (It works for non-vector games.)  Is offering a
68000 ICE for a good price OK? (It works for non-vector games too.)

The signal to noise ratio seems like a weak excuse to me.  Monty-Pythonizing
posts isn't noise?  Gregg's trade offer for a B&K CRT rejuv was OK?  John
offering up relatively rare DAC-80's for-sale must be noise too. 

I not going to risk offering the "wrong" thing to the group anymore.  Maybe
we should just take the list to full moderation to make sure no noise gets
in instead of some noise being OK and others not...

jmp rant_off

-Clay

From shag  Thu Dec  2 11:55:01 1999
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From: "Simon Whittam" <shag >
To: "'vectorlist '" <vectorlist >
Subject: RE: Selling Items on VL
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:54:04 -0600
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Maybe you should trade a soldering station for a CPO?  :-)

  SPW (ok, enough, I know)

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Clay Cowgill [SMTP:ClayC ]
> Sent:	Thursday, December 02, 1999 12:45 PM
> To:	'vectorlist '
> Subject:	RE: Selling Items on VL
> 
> Hey Roy,
> 
> I'll take a Gravitar CPO. ;-)
> 
> -Clay
> 

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<TITLE>RE: Selling Items on VL</TITLE>
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<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Maybe you should =
trade a soldering station for a CPO?&nbsp; :-)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&nbsp; SPW (ok, =
enough, I know)</FONT>
</P>
<UL>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial"
From:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Clay Cowgill [SMTP:ClayC ]</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Thursday, December 02, 1999 12:45 PM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Arial">'vectorlist '</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">RE: Selling Items on VL</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Hey Roy,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I'll take a Gravitar CPO. ;-)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-Clay</FONT>
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From awilson  Thu Dec  2 12:15:33 1999
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:15:12 -0800 (PST)
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From: Andrew Wilson <awilson >
To: vectorlist 
In-reply-to: <E5301D1C721BD21181990008C7FA16F2A51BDD > (message from
        Clay Cowgill on Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:50:32 -0800)
Subject: Re: Selling Items on VL
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        I understand Clay's point. There was no reason to rag him out in public
about his FS post (actually, the whole thing came off as incredibly petty),
and his FS post is no more off-topic than most of the other posts we see around
here (as Clay pointed out).

        The list is currently working quite well, and has worked well for the
year or so that I've been on it. I might respectfully suggest that unless the
FS posts start getting out of hand, we cut people some slack. Leave it to Joe
to enforce the list rules, and if you don't like a post, send some private
email about it to Joe and let him deal with it.

                        Drew

From jbovee@voyager.net Thu Dec  2 12:21:23 1999
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From: "Jeff Bovee" <jbovee@voyager.net>
To: <vectorlist >
Subject: Re: Selling Items on VL
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 13:20:50 -0500
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Could that robo idea be used with this so that for sale posts to the list
automatically get screened from people who don't want them?  Maybe just by
having the words "for sale" or FS in the header they could then be filtered
and distributed only to people on the list that haven't asked to be
filtered.  That way when someone wants to join or un-join the vectorlist it
would still only be one list.  Just my quarters worth, and to keep this on
topic, I just got my first Tempest, and someone ripped the HV out of it, and
other stuff as well so I will be peppering the list with many inane
questions about fixing it ;-)

Jeff

From chris.loggans  Thu Dec  2 12:28:08 1999
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From: Chris Loggans <chris.loggans >
To: "'vectorlist '" <vectorlist >
Subject: Asteroids Question
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 13:27:50 -0500 
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To start a non-policy related thread... I've noticed a strange thing
happening on a number of Asteroids PCB's that I have and I thought someone
here could shed some light on it.  I have about 10 working Asteroids PCB's
and I've noticed this occur probably 6-7 of them.  Every once and a while,
probably once or twice a round, when you shoot an asteroid, it doesn't
explode but collapses into a faint, but noticeable solid line.  It is
usually a vertical line about 2-3" long.  While this is occurring,
everything else on the screen is perfectly fine?  I have tried this on two
different machines/monitors and get the same results so it does appear to be
PCB related.  Has anyone else ever seen this or know why it is occurring?

Thanks,
-Chris

From jess  Thu Dec  2 12:43:42 1999
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Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 11:44:25 -0700
From: Jess Askey <jess >
Subject: Re: Asteroids Question
To: vectorlist 
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Chris Loggans wrote:
> 
> To start a non-policy related thread... I've noticed a strange thing
> happening on a number of Asteroids PCB's that I have and I thought someone
> here could shed some light on it.  I have about 10 working Asteroids PCB's
> and I've noticed this occur probably 6-7 of them.  Every once and a while,
> probably once or twice a round, when you shoot an asteroid, it doesn't
> explode but collapses into a faint, but noticeable solid line.  It is
> usually a vertical line about 2-3" long.  While this is occurring,
> everything else on the screen is perfectly fine?  I have tried this on two
> different machines/monitors and get the same results so it does appear to be
> PCB related.  Has anyone else ever seen this or know why it is occurring?

Weird one.

Since it collapses into a vertical line, it is obviously a problem in the X axis
circuitry. But.. the strange thing is that it doesn't effect the whole screen, only 
single objects. Since the DAC and everything past it (hereafter refered to as DAC+) 
basically just follows the vector counters, the Im guessing that the DAC+ is all okay.
Esspecially since the 'invisible' position vectors arene't collapsing as well (which would
make the whole screen go into vertical line mode).
  So when it draws an Asteroid, the beam (turned off at this point), Moves to the center
of the asteroids position. All is okay here. Now the asteroid itself starts to get drawn
using the 'draw' instructions in the state machine which starts the vector position
counters going and the vector moving to draw a line of the correct slope and length. If
the X counter is not incrementing or decrementing, this exact problem would happen.
  Now Im not too familiar with the Asteroids vector gen, I know things are done
differently with the counters on it as compared to games after Tempest? But Im not sure
how exactly. 
  Anyone know more?

From twisnion  Thu Dec  2 12:46:14 1999
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From: "TomW" <twisnion >
To: <vectorlist >
Subject: Ok, Different Topic... Fluke 9010 Test Program for Asteroids...
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 12:46:33 -0600
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Gang,

To bring the list back on a 'fun' topic...

I've been working on a series of menu based test programs for the fluke =
9010. I have taken
the tests out of the atari cat box manual and brought over what I could =
for the asteroids board. Heres what I have done so far:

The code is posed at www.enteract.com/~twisnion/asteroids1.txt

1. Ram test, the Fluke test is much better that the game test, I've =
broken the flukes test down to two rams at a time to at least get the =
'person testing' beyond the Bit 7 @ 3E21 bad, so you get a Bad Ram R3 M3 =
message instead.

2. Rom Test. I have taked the sig's from the rev 2 sw and broken the rom =
test up to test each chip seporatly, giving Rom XX bad. Need to add rev =
1 here and alternate rom positions next.

3. Sound test, cycles each sound with a cascading menu until CONT is =
pressed for the next sound, great for debugging a missing sound.

4. I/O test for inputs, will show dips and buttons pressed, NOT YET =
DONE..

5. Vector generator, I took the atari '+' display and put it in the test =
procedure and looped it until cont is pressed, great help for the VG =
section !!=20

6. Address Decode, was in the cat box test procedure, ok for debugging. =
Has you probe a specific chip for pulse count to verify its swinging =
ok..

I need to make a clean up pass on the code, so go easy on me, I know one =
of the displays  is showing the wrong #..


Now, I'm working on Sig analysis for the VG section, since I really =
would NOT like to cut traces or clip on dip clips specific to a chip to =
inject the stimulas sig so I'm looking for ideas on how to create that =
part of the test program. I have experimented using the atari + display =
code and I can generate a stable sig on the vg program stack area and =
again on the XY area, but you cannot get a sig from the vector timer or =
program counter area without additional stimulas that I have been able =
to figure out.. So, where I'm heading is to just load the program stack =
with cmds that would cause certian things to happen on a go cmd, TimerX, =
Halt,Stop,Go etc... and use the probe to pulse count again or just run =
the + display test and count pulses against that... Anyone got a VG =
command list and what they do ??

I hope I made a little sense, any opinions ???

Oh, and I've got an extra 9010 with a Z80 pod for sale.


TomW


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<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Gang,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>To bring the list back on a 'fun'=20
topic...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I've been working on a series of =
menu based test=20
programs for the fluke 9010. I have taken</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>the tests out of the atari cat box =
manual and=20
brought over what I could for the asteroids board. Heres what I have =
done so=20
far:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The code is posed at <A=20
href=3D"http://www.enteract.com/~twisnion/asteroids1.txt">www.enteract.co=
m/~twisnion/asteroids1.txt</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>1. Ram test, the Fluke test is much =
better that=20
the game test, I've broken the flukes test down to two rams at a time to =
at=20
least get the 'person testing' beyond the Bit 7 @ 3E21 bad, so you get a =
Bad Ram=20
R3 M3 message instead.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>2. Rom Test. I have taked the sig's =
from the rev=20
2 sw and broken the rom test up to test each chip seporatly, giving Rom =
XX bad.=20
Need to add rev 1 here and alternate rom positions next.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>3. Sound test, cycles each sound =
with a=20
cascading menu until CONT is pressed for the next sound, great for =
debugging a=20
missing sound.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>4. I/O test for inputs, will show =
dips and=20
buttons pressed, NOT YET DONE..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>5. Vector generator, I took the =
atari '+'=20
display and put it in the test procedure and looped it until cont is =
pressed,=20
great help for the VG section !! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>6. Address Decode, was in the cat =
box test=20
procedure, ok for debugging. Has you probe a specific chip for pulse =
count to=20
verify its swinging ok..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I need to make a clean up pass on =
the code, so=20
go easy on me, I know one of the displays&nbsp; is showing the wrong=20
#..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Now, I'm working on Sig analysis for =
the VG=20
section, since I really would NOT like to cut traces or clip on dip =
clips=20
specific to a chip to inject the stimulas sig so I'm looking for ideas =
on how to=20
create that part of the test program. I have experimented using the =
atari +=20
display code and I can generate a stable sig on the vg program stack =
area and=20
again on the XY area, but you cannot get a sig from the vector timer or =
program=20
counter area without additional stimulas that I have been able to figure =
out..=20
So, where I'm heading is to just load the program stack with cmds that =
would=20
cause certian things to happen on a go cmd, TimerX, Halt,Stop,Go etc... =
and use=20
the probe to pulse count again or just run the + display test and count =
pulses=20
against that... Anyone got a VG command list and what they do =
??</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I hope I made a little sense, any opinions =
???</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Oh, and I've got an extra 9010 with a Z80 pod for=20
sale.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>TomW<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From jenison  Thu Dec  2 12:49:39 1999
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        "Re: Asteroids Question" (Dec  2, 11:44am)
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	<199912021845.MAA20619 >
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Subject: Re: Asteroids Question
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On Dec 2, 11:44am, Jess Askey wrote:
> Subject: Re: Asteroids Question
> Chris Loggans wrote:
> >
> > To start a non-policy related thread... I've noticed a strange thing
> > happening on a number of Asteroids PCB's that I have and I thought someone
> > here could shed some light on it.  I have about 10 working Asteroids PCB's
> > and I've noticed this occur probably 6-7 of them.  Every once and a while,
> > probably once or twice a round, when you shoot an asteroid, it doesn't
> > explode but collapses into a faint, but noticeable solid line.  It is
> > usually a vertical line about 2-3" long.  While this is occurring,
> > everything else on the screen is perfectly fine?  I have tried this on two
> > different machines/monitors and get the same results so it does appear to
be
> > PCB related.  Has anyone e