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Message-ID: <001f01c05b59$047705e0$02000003@office>
From: "Max" <maxhenkel >
To: <vectorlist >
References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001129085515.00ba8d80 > <5.0.0.25.0.20001130142639.00af24e0@127.0.0.1> <3A26C57B.F4948420@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: VECTOR: More transformer data.
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 00:39:03 -0500
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----- Original Message -----
From: Rodger Boots <rlboots@cedar-rapids.net>
To: <vectorlist >
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: VECTOR: More transformer data.


> It should be pointed out that a game with the third prong cut off the
power plug
> will usually have about 55 volts on all the "grounded" surfaces.  This is
due to
> the noise filter on the power line.  The capacitors in it turn into a
capacitive
> voltage divider.  Not a lot of current there, but can still give a nasty
jolt if a
> customer touches both that game and something that's correctly grounded.
>


Yes...... sometimes depending how screwed up power conditions are I can
touch two different machines and feel the juice flowing through me.. On
metal surfaces like two pinballs or two different changers one time.

Sort of nice..

I also enjoy discharging a Go7 with a blown LOPT through myself. That big
cap is a bit nasty.  (sorry, sort of off topic)

Max




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From owner-vectorlist   Fri Dec  1 01:22:46 2000
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From: "Max" <maxhenkel >
To: <vectorlist >
References: <009201c05b53$ae4d7960$f54dd7d8 puter>
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Tech: Tempest Spot Killer
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 00:43:50 -0500
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  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Matt J. McCullar=20
  To: vectorlist =20
  Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 12:00 AM
  Subject: Re: VECTOR: Tech: Tempest Spot Killer



    When powering on my Tempest there is a single bright spot in the =
middle of the monitor. Is this the Spot Killer syndrome?
    Do you guys know what could be wrong and how I can deal with this =
problem?
    I`m a no technical genius but a riend of mine is so I will pass him =
the information.
    The 1 and 2 player lamps are flashing by the way.

    Can the game coin up and play at all?  Can you play it "blind"?  I'm =
guessing that you can't, because the 1 and 2 player lamps are =
flashing... =20
    =20
    If all you're getting on the screen is a bright white dot, then the =
spot killer circuit inside the monitor is not working.  On the other =
hand, it may be that the computer is scrambled and it is trying to draw =
some sort of graphics, but all you can really see is the brightest part =
-- the dot in the center.  You might be able to see more if you look =
very closely at the screen, or turn up the brightness a little.  (Don't =
do this for very long, as bright spots can burn a hole in the phosphor =
of the screen.) =20
    =20

    You should also be able to look at the Spot Killer LED on the =
monitor.=20

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:mccullar@flash.net" title=3Dmccullar@flash.net>Matt =
J.=20
  McCullar</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:vectorlist "=20
  title=3Dvectorlist </A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, December 01, 2000 =
12:00=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: VECTOR: Tech: =
Tempest Spot=20
  Killer</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>When powering on my Tempest there is a single =
bright spot=20
    in the middle of the monitor. Is this the Spot Killer =
syndrome?</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Do you guys know what could be wrong and how I =
can deal=20
    with this problem?</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I`m a no technical genius but a riend of mine is =
so I will=20
    pass him the information.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>The 1 and 2 player lamps are flashing by the=20
    way.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Can the game coin up and play at =
all?&nbsp;=20
    Can you play it "blind"?&nbsp; I'm guessing that you can't, because =
the 1=20
    and 2 player lamps are flashing...&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>If all you're getting on the =
screen is a=20
    bright white dot, then the spot killer circuit inside the monitor is =
not=20
    working.&nbsp; On the other hand, it may be that the computer is =
scrambled=20
    and it is trying to draw some sort of graphics, but all you can =
really see=20
    is the brightest part -- the dot in the center.&nbsp; You might be =
able to=20
    see more if you look very closely at the screen, or turn up the =
brightness a=20
    little.&nbsp; (Don't do this for very long, as bright spots can burn =
a hole=20
    in the phosphor of the screen.)&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You should also&nbsp;be able to =
look at the=20
    Spot Killer LED on the monitor.=20
</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-vectorlist   Fri Dec  1 09:26:33 2000
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Message-ID: <3A27B094.6A701F9C@lasers.org>
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 09:07:16 -0500
From: Robert Mudryk <rob@lasers.org>
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Subject: VECTOR: Vector Driver Board for thee PC...  Your Opinion
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we are about 3/4 of the way complete making a 8 or 16 bit ISA Vector
Frame Board and was wondering what the interest in the Vector game
community is.  We plan on writing the Drivers for MAME, or any other
emulator that we can do.

Please comment, suggest, slam, support, request...  I'd like to get this
right  the first time

What our Board does:

-Frame Based:  Meaning that you send the entire Frame at a time to the
Board, this allows hardware to do the retracing, so you keep a
percistant image on the screen while you are busy doing something
else...  no jitter or flicker due to PC weaknesses

-2 Frames:  2 4096 vector Frame buffers

-Input:  basic tests we've done so far, we can dump 3000 vectors to the
card in under 10ms

-Output:  2 12-bit DAC's for XY, 3 8-bit DACs for  RGB

-OutPut Rate:   Adjustable Fixed Vector output Rate.  aka the card has
it's own clock for output rate.  that you can control from the PC

-We are going for a Price Point of $250 or under



Later,

Rob.



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From owner-vectorlist   Fri Dec  1 09:35:20 2000
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From: "TraunStaa" <traunstaa@aon.at>
To: <vectorlist >
Subject: VECTOR: TECH: Asteroids Monitor Problem
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 15:09:25 +0100
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When I turn on my Asteroids, I can only see a small tiny dot that`s =
jumping horicontally. When I switch on the test switch I get first a =
medium low noise and then a low noise,
Any suggestions?

Many thanks, reinhard

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>When I turn on my Asteroids, I can only see a small =
tiny dot=20
that`s jumping horicontally. When I switch on the test switch I get =
first a=20
medium low noise and then a low noise,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Any suggestions?</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Many thanks, reinhard</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-vectorlist   Fri Dec  1 09:46:38 2000
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From: "Magiera, Joe (AIT)" <joe.magiera >
To: "Vector (E-mail)" <vectorlist >
Subject: VECTOR: Archieves & Atari smoked glass
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 09:20:48 -0500 
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Okay, I admit I need to pay more attention.  Can someone please point me to
the past and current vector list archieves on the web somewhere?

Also, (and I know we had this discussion just recently too), what was the
final consensus on the best replacement for the smoked glass that Atari used
on their vector game?  Any particular color or color number?

Thanks,

Joe
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From owner-vectorlist   Fri Dec  1 10:10:27 2000
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Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 08:53:51 -0600
From: tom mcclintock <tomm >
Organization: MG Capital
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Archives:  http://www.arlo.net/vectorlist/

Glass:  Graylite #14



tm

"Magiera, Joe (AIT)" wrote:
> 
> Okay, I admit I need to pay more attention.  Can someone please point me to
> the past and current vector list archieves on the web somewhere?
> 
> Also, (and I know we had this discussion just recently too), what was the
> final consensus on the best replacement for the smoked glass that Atari used
> on their vector game?  Any particular color or color number?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Joe
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From owner-vectorlist   Sat Dec  2 01:33:56 2000
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Message-ID: <DF2F5312A913D311B3720008C7F35F37051A3846 >
From: "Evrovski, Andrew" <andy >
To: "'vectorlist >
Subject: RE: VECTOR: TECH: Need Tempest Help Please!
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 01:15:10 -0500 
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Ta-da!  I fixed my squiggley letters.  After socketting/testing about half
the chips on the board, taking it from working with quiggley letters, to it
spouting out bad continuous tones, to resurrecting it to Mathbox errors
(with no problems with mathbox), to figuring out that I screwed up traces to
vector RAMS and the LS245s, back to where I started (working but with
squiggely letters) I had a revelation.  The vector scaling section of the
board has some transistors.  It just hit me.  Those bad boys may be the
culprit.  Now I had thought of those a long (and I mean a LOOONNNGG time
ago), but I had seen that they had already been replaced, so I assumed that
the transisitors were ok (yes, the I made an ass out of you and me move) .
This time, I just looked at them and said to hell with it... replaced them
with "known" working good ones...  and voila.  Perfectly functioning Tempest
boardset.  
 
Thanks to all the people that have helped me through all of my troubled
times.
 
Cheers
Andy 

-----Original Message-----
From: Kev [mailto:KKlopp ]
Sent: November 16, 2000 08:29
To: Evrovski, Andrew
Subject: Re: VECTOR: TECH: Need Tempest Help Please!


Andy,
 
Got a flaky Tempest board to work on myself.
 
I would do the desolder & replace method just yet.  Do you have an O-scope
or atleast a Logic Probe?
 
Swapping the chips doesn't eliminate a bad socket either....
 
Good Luck & please post your findings!
 
Thanks,
Kev
 


Hey there...
 
    Thanks for the advice, but I had already swapped out different roms...
in fact, I have swapped out every socketed chip possible and everything in
the vid section... not any of those... I think it may have something to do
with the up/down counters in the addressing or a Tempest equivalent to the
Asteroids Deluxe Rate multipliers (LS191).... Anyway, I guess I'll work my
way back and track from the video out stage back through the vector state
machine and the X&Y outputs and de-solder every damn chip in each section as
I go and replace with a known working... damn pain in the ass, but what else
can I do.. :-)
 
Cheers
Andy

-----Original Message-----
From: Kev [mailto:KKlopp ]
Sent: November 8, 2000 22:59
To: andy 
Subject: Re: VECTOR: TECH: Need Tempest Help Please!


 
Crazy Idea, but why don't you swap the game ROMs with your friend's working
board.  I agree with your analysis that the characters are somehow corrupt &
possibly some on vectorlist can pop in with the exact differences on the
draw but I assume the playfield is drawn from RAM & perhaps the characters
are derived straight from ROM.  Perhaps you have a ROM that is slow to
respond?
 
Kev


I am not sure where to go from here. It seems that perhaps it is only doing 
this with textual characters and game draws because when I got to the test 
screen, only the 0's are skewed (and the tempest spinner line).. the 
cross-hatches, plus symbol, outline white box around the whole screens 
appear fine... could this be a ROM problem? 

The monitor is fine as my friend's working tempest board has no problem. 

Any advice is appreciated. 

Thanks 

Andy 

http://arcadeworks.halifax.cx/images/DCP00556.JPG
<http://arcadeworks.halifax.cx/images/DCP00556.JPG>  
http://arcadeworks.halifax.cx/images/DCP00557.JPG
<http://arcadeworks.halifax.cx/images/DCP00557.JPG>  

or 

http://216.83.5.77/images/DCP00556.JPG
<http://216.83.5.77/images/DCP00556.JPG>  
http://216.83.5.77/images/DCP00557.JPG
<http://216.83.5.77/images/DCP00557.JPG>  




Andrew Evrovski 
HPC Development Director 
Cyberplex 
t: 902.429.4721 ext.109 
f: 902.423.0899 
www.cyberplex.com 


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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=279570106-02122000>Ta-da!&nbsp; I fixed my squiggley letters.&nbsp; After 
socketting/testing about half the chips on the board, taking it from working 
with quiggley letters, to it spouting out bad continuous tones, to resurrecting 
it to Mathbox errors (with no problems with mathbox), to figuring out that I 
screwed up traces to vector RAMS and the LS245s, back to where I started 
(working but with squiggely letters) I had a revelation.&nbsp; The vector 
scaling section of the board has some transistors.&nbsp; It just hit me.&nbsp; 
Those bad boys may be the culprit.&nbsp; Now I had thought of those a long (and 
I mean a LOOONNNGG time ago), but I had seen that they had already been 
replaced, so I assumed that the transisitors were ok (yes, the I made an ass out 
of you and me move) .&nbsp; This time, I just looked at them and said to hell 
with it... replaced them with "known" working good ones...&nbsp; and 
voila.&nbsp; Perfectly functioning Tempest boardset.&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=279570106-02122000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=279570106-02122000>Thanks 
to all the people that have helped me through all of my troubled 
times.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=279570106-02122000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=279570106-02122000>Cheers</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=279570106-02122000>Andy 
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Kev 
  [mailto:KKlopp ]<BR><B>Sent:</B> November 16, 2000 
  08:29<BR><B>To:</B> Evrovski, Andrew<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: VECTOR: TECH: Need 
  Tempest Help Please!<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Andy,</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Got a flaky Tempest board to work on 
  myself.</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">I would do the desolder &amp; replace method 
  just yet.&nbsp; Do you have an O-scope or atleast a Logic Probe?</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Swapping the chips doesn't eliminate a bad 
  socket either....</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Good Luck &amp; please post your findings!</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Thanks,</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Kev</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE 
  style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    class=553222000-16112000>Hey there...</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    class=553222000-16112000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    class=553222000-16112000>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks for the advice, but I had 
    already swapped out different roms... in fact, I have swapped out every 
    socketed chip possible and everything in the vid section... not any of 
    those... I think it may have something to do with the up/down counters in 
    the addressing or a Tempest equivalent to the Asteroids Deluxe Rate 
    multipliers (LS191).... Anyway, I guess I'll work my way back and track from 
    the video out stage back through the vector state machine and the X&amp;Y 
    outputs and de-solder every damn chip in each section as I go and replace 
    with a known working... damn pain in the ass, but what else can I do.. 
    :-)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    class=553222000-16112000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    class=553222000-16112000>Cheers</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    class=553222000-16112000>Andy</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma 
      size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Kev 
      [mailto:KKlopp ]<BR><B>Sent:</B> November 8, 2000 
      22:59<BR><B>To:</B> andy <BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: VECTOR: 
      TECH: Need Tempest Help Please!<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
      <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Crazy Idea, but why don't you swap the 
      game ROMs with your friend's working board.&nbsp; I agree with your 
      analysis that the characters are somehow corrupt &amp; possibly some on 
      vectorlist can pop in with the exact differences on the draw but I assume 
      the playfield is drawn from RAM &amp; perhaps the characters are derived 
      straight from ROM.&nbsp; Perhaps you have a ROM that is slow to 
      respond?</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Kev</FONT></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE 
      style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
        <P><FONT size=2>I am not sure where to go from here. It seems that 
        perhaps it is only doing</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>this with textual 
        characters and game draws because when I got to the test</FONT> 
        <BR><FONT size=2>screen, only the 0's are skewed (and the tempest 
        spinner line).. the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>cross-hatches, plus symbol, 
        outline white box around the whole screens</FONT> <BR><FONT 
        size=2>appear fine... could this be a ROM problem?</FONT> </P>
        <P><FONT size=2>The monitor is fine as my friend's working tempest board 
        has no problem.</FONT> </P>
        <P><FONT size=2>Any advice is appreciated.</FONT> </P>
        <P><FONT size=2>Thanks</FONT> </P>
        <P><FONT size=2>Andy</FONT> </P>
        <P><FONT size=2><A 
        href="http://arcadeworks.halifax.cx/images/DCP00556.JPG" 
        target=_blank>http://arcadeworks.halifax.cx/images/DCP00556.JPG</A></FONT> 
        <BR><FONT size=2><A 
        href="http://arcadeworks.halifax.cx/images/DCP00557.JPG" 
        target=_blank>http://arcadeworks.halifax.cx/images/DCP00557.JPG</A></FONT> 
        </P>
        <P><FONT size=2>or</FONT> </P>
        <P><FONT size=2><A href="http://216.83.5.77/images/DCP00556.JPG" 
        target=_blank>http://216.83.5.77/images/DCP00556.JPG</A></FONT> 
        <BR><FONT size=2><A href="http://216.83.5.77/images/DCP00557.JPG" 
        target=_blank>http://216.83.5.77/images/DCP00557.JPG</A></FONT> 
        </P><BR><BR><BR>
        <P><FONT size=2>Andrew Evrovski</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>HPC Development 
        Director</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Cyberplex</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>t: 
        902.429.4721 ext.109</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>f: 902.423.0899</FONT> 
        <BR><FONT size=2>www.cyberplex.com 
  </FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-vectorlist   Sat Dec  2 02:27:43 2000
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Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 01:08:38 -0600
From: Robert Bayes <RobertAB@swbell.net>
Subject: VECTOR: WG 19v2000 flyback sub?
To: vectorlist 
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At the risk of boring everyone who might also be regular visitors to
r.g.v.a.c., I'd like to post the following question here...

I recently acquired an Asteroids Deluxe which plays blind.  After further
inspection, I discovered the flyback xformer has an open secondary (HV).  I
have also discovered that replacement flybacks for the above monitor are
about as rare as uncounted ballots in Florida (j/k!).

Can anyone here recommend either a source of exact replacements for or
substitutes of the WG 19v2000 HV transformer?

Thanks a lot.

Robert Bayes



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To: vectorlist 
From: John Robertson <jrr >
Subject: Re: VECTOR: WG 19v2000 flyback sub?
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Are you sure the transformer is open? A common failure on these is a bad HV 
diode...do you get the screen voltage (400V) and the 90V output from the HV 
unit? If so, then the unit is almost running...likely a bad diode at that 
point...there has been discussion here about sources for those diodes...I 
use ones from old B&W TV's...

John :-#)#

At 06:08 PM 12/2/00, Robert Bayes wrote:
>At the risk of boring everyone who might also be regular visitors to
>r.g.v.a.c., I'd like to post the following question here...
>
>I recently acquired an Asteroids Deluxe which plays blind.  After further
>inspection, I discovered the flyback xformer has an open secondary (HV).  I
>have also discovered that replacement flybacks for the above monitor are
>about as rare as uncounted ballots in Florida (j/k!).
>
>Can anyone here recommend either a source of exact replacements for or
>substitutes of the WG 19v2000 HV transformer?
>
>Thanks a lot.
>
>Robert Bayes
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 03:33:53 -0600
From: Robert Bayes <RobertAB@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: VECTOR: WG 19v2000 flyback sub?
To: vectorlist 
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Thanks, John, for your quick response.



>Are you sure the transformer is open?

As best I can tell.  HV circuits are not my strong suit. I measure approx.
10Mohms (depending on the humidity down here in Houston) with the HV diode
*out* of circuit. Should I see this *high* a reading?


A common failure on these is a bad HV
>diode...

I bought one of those just in case.

do you get the screen voltage (400V) and the 90V output from the HV
>unit?

I get *no* screen voltage (~0.0V), *no* focus voltage (~0.0V) and only about
10V (should be ~95V) for the spot killer circuitry.  I am mindful of the
characteristic hi-z of the circuit but it shouldn't yield *that* much of an
error through my DVM!  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

The HO circuit _is_ oscillating though.  The feedback must be coupling
through the transformer core.

If so, then the unit is almost running...likely a bad diode at that
>point...there has been discussion here about sources for those diodes...I
>use ones from old B&W TV's...
>


Lord knows, I hope you're right.  However, so far, it seems to point to the
flyback.

What do you think, given this *new* information?  Any suggestions?

Sincerely,

Robert

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From: John Robertson <jrr >
Subject: Re: VECTOR: WG 19v2000 flyback sub?
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If you get oscillation, but nothing out of the flyback (actually a HV 
transformer, as a flyback needs a yoke winding for it's operation-but 
that's another group (Rasterlist))) then I would take a close look at the 
driver transistor first, and it's connector.

On the other hand, I have had those HV transformers that had loose winding 
assembly and the wires leading from the coil break at the solder terminals. 
You might be able to re-solder them if you bend the broken one out 
carefully, burn off the insulation, then add a tiny extension wire. I've 
managed to fix a couple that way. Oh, and then wedge in silicon glue to 
freeze the coil windings. Other folks might want to check this on their B&W 
vector HV transformers to make sure theirs aren't loose and do some 
preventative maintenance.

John :-#)#

At 08:33 PM 12/2/00, Robert Bayes wrote:
>Thanks, John, for your quick response.
>
>
>
> >Are you sure the transformer is open?
>
>As best I can tell.  HV circuits are not my strong suit. I measure approx.
>10Mohms (depending on the humidity down here in Houston) with the HV diode
>*out* of circuit. Should I see this *high* a reading?
>
>
>A common failure on these is a bad HV
> >diode...
>
>I bought one of those just in case.
>
>do you get the screen voltage (400V) and the 90V output from the HV
> >unit?
>
>I get *no* screen voltage (~0.0V), *no* focus voltage (~0.0V) and only about
>10V (should be ~95V) for the spot killer circuitry.  I am mindful of the
>characteristic hi-z of the circuit but it shouldn't yield *that* much of an
>error through my DVM!  Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>
>The HO circuit _is_ oscillating though.  The feedback must be coupling
>through the transformer core.
>
>If so, then the unit is almost running...likely a bad diode at that
> >point...there has been discussion here about sources for those diodes...I
> >use ones from old B&W TV's...
> >
>
>
>Lord knows, I hope you're right.  However, so far, it seems to point to the
>flyback.
>
>What do you think, given this *new* information?  Any suggestions?
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Robert
>
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Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 13:48:38 -0600
From: Robert Bayes <RobertAB@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: VECTOR: WG 19v2000 flyback sub?
To: vectorlist 
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>If you get oscillation, but nothing out of the flyback (actually a HV
>transformer, as a flyback needs a yoke winding for it's operation-but
>that's another group (Rasterlist))) then I would take a close look at the
>driver transistor first, and it's connector.

Thanks, John, I have checked it to the extent my test equipment will allow
(DVM, scope).

>
>On the other hand, I have had those HV transformers that had loose winding
>assembly and the wires leading from the coil break at the solder terminals.
>You might be able to re-solder them if you bend the broken one out
>carefully, burn off the insulation, then add a tiny extension wire. I've
>managed to fix a couple that way. Oh, and then wedge in silicon glue to
>freeze the coil windings. Other folks might want to check this on their B&W
>vector HV transformers to make sure theirs aren't loose and do some
>preventative maintenance.



I removed the flyback and inspected it for broken connections as you've
indicated.  All connections were sound.  However, I still have a problem
determining the continuity of the HV secondary winding.  I read
"Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Testing of Flyback (LOPT) Transformers" on the
web and it was ambiguous about measuring the flyback coil continuity.

If I cannot read a finite resistance (before the HV rectifier) and *any*
identifiable terminal on the flyback itself, I have a broken flyback -
right?  Unless I'm missing something here, or took the wrong exit to the
Magic Kingdom, the HV secondary is open.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Where the anode wire physically connects to the core there is a small amount
of movement.  Could this wire have worked itself loose?  If so, what is the
likelihood of success in removing that epoxy, RTV or whatever it is coating
the transformer and resecuring the connection?

I really appreciate your help.



Robert


>
>John :-#)#
>
>At 08:33 PM 12/2/00, Robert Bayes wrote:
>>Thanks, John, for your quick response.
>>
>>
>>
>> >Are you sure the transformer is open?
>>
>>As best I can tell.  HV circuits are not my strong suit. I measure approx.
>>10Mohms (depending on the humidity down here in Houston) with the HV diode
>>*out* of circuit. Should I see this *high* a reading?
>>
>>
>>A common failure on these is a bad HV
>> >diode...
>>
>>I bought one of those just in case.
>>
>>do you get the screen voltage (400V) and the 90V output from the HV
>> >unit?
>>
>>I get *no* screen voltage (~0.0V), *no* focus voltage (~0.0V) and only
about
>>10V (should be ~95V) for the spot killer circuitry.  I am mindful of the
>>characteristic hi-z of the circuit but it shouldn't yield *that* much of
an
>>error through my DVM!  Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>>
>>The HO circuit _is_ oscillating though.  The feedback must be coupling
>>through the transformer core.
>>
>>If so, then the unit is almost running...likely a bad diode at that
>> >point...there has been discussion here about sources for those
diodes...I
>> >use ones from old B&W TV's...
>> >
>>
>>
>>Lord knows, I hope you're right.  However, so far, it seems to point to
the
>>flyback.
>>
>>What do you think, given this *new* information?  Any suggestions?
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>
>>Robert
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: "peter jones" <highwayman2000@mail.ru>
To: vectorlist 
Subject: VECTOR: European mains wiring.
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-----Original Message-----
From: Rodger Boots <rlboots@cedar-rapids.net>
To: vectorlist 
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 15:19:50 -0600
Subject: Re: VECTOR: More transformer data.

> Until the advent of the latest monitors with switching regulator power supplies, monitors were either 100
> volts (Japanese) or 110-125 volt (USA).
> 
> So, by definition, monitors used in Europe (240 volt, 50 Hz) would have to have transformers, if for no
> other reason to get the voltage down to what the monitor was designed for.
> 
> (I've always wondered, is one side of the European power at a "ground" level?  If so, do you also have 480
> volt single phase power available for heavy power needs?  Over here we have 460 and 480 volt power, but
> it's mostly 3-phase.)
> 
you say because we use 230v we have to use transformers,
yes BUT we dont have to use isolating types, if we were stupid or cheap then we could use an 'auto-transformer'
a kind of wire-wound resister!!!

in olden times the street-feed was the feed and the ground was exactly that - a spike driven into the ground, or using the incoming water-pipes!

now he have PME Primary,neutral-Earth where the Neutral is connected to the buildings earth conductor.
We cant use the water-pipes anymore because they are plastic!

each house in a street receives 230v - single phase.
this is split evenly from a 3-phase transformer supplying several streets.

3-phase is available if needed, both 230v and higher.

I hope that answers your questions.

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From: John Robertson <jrr >
Subject: Re: VECTOR: WG 19v2000 flyback sub?
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Even if the HV secondary winding was open you should still get the lower 
voltages. Thus even if you get an infinite resistance on the HV lead you 
should still get the lower voltages as they are, AIR separate windings. 
Thus if NO output voltage at all, and the primary winding seems good, then 
I would be looking at the driver circuitry...one of Bob Parker's (Dick 
Smith Electronics in Australia) flyback/LOPT meters would be handy about 
now (not an ad exactly, but we as well as a few other folks sell them). 
Very handy to verify flybacks/HV Xformers.

John :-#)#

At 06:48 AM 12/4/00, Robert Bayes wrote:



> >If you get oscillation, but nothing out of the flyback (actually a HV
> >transformer, as a flyback needs a yoke winding for it's operation-but
> >that's another group (Rasterlist))) then I would take a close look at the
> >driver transistor first, and it's connector.
>
>Thanks, John, I have checked it to the extent my test equipment will allow
>(DVM, scope).
>
> >
> >On the other hand, I have had those HV transformers that had loose winding
> >assembly and the wires leading from the coil break at the solder terminals.
> >You might be able to re-solder them if you bend the broken one out
> >carefully, burn off the insulation, then add a tiny extension wire. I've
> >managed to fix a couple that way. Oh, and then wedge in silicon glue to
> >freeze the coil windings. Other folks might want to check this on their B&W
> >vector HV transformers to make sure theirs aren't loose and do some
> >preventative maintenance.
>
>
>
>I removed the flyback and inspected it for broken connections as you've
>indicated.  All connections were sound.  However, I still have a problem
>determining the continuity of the HV secondary winding.  I read
>"Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Testing of Flyback (LOPT) Transformers" on the
>web and it was ambiguous about measuring the flyback coil continuity.
>
>If I cannot read a finite resistance (before the HV rectifier) and *any*
>identifiable terminal on the flyback itself, I have a broken flyback -
>right?  Unless I'm missing something here, or took the wrong exit to the
>Magic Kingdom, the HV secondary is open.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>
>Where the anode wire physically connects to the core there is a small amount
>of movement.  Could this wire have worked itself loose?  If so, what is the
>likelihood of success in removing that epoxy, RTV or whatever it is coating
>the transformer and resecuring the connection?
>
>I really appreciate your help.
>
>
>
>Robert
>
>
> >
> >John :-#)#
> >
> >At 08:33 PM 12/2/00, Robert Bayes wrote:
> >>Thanks, John, for your quick response.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >Are you sure the transformer is open?
> >>
> >>As best I can tell.  HV circuits are not my strong suit. I measure approx.
> >>10Mohms (depending on the humidity down here in Houston) with the HV diode
> >>*out* of circuit. Should I see this *high* a reading?
> >>
> >>
> >>A common failure on these is a bad HV
> >> >diode...
> >>
> >>I bought one of those just in case.
> >>
> >>do you get the screen voltage (400V) and the 90V output from the HV
> >> >unit?
> >>
> >>I get *no* screen voltage (~0.0V), *no* focus voltage (~0.0V) and only
>about
> >>10V (should be ~95V) for the spot killer circuitry.  I am mindful of the
> >>characteristic hi-z of the circuit but it shouldn't yield *that* much of
>an
> >>error through my DVM!  Please correct me if I'm wrong.
> >>
> >>The HO circuit _is_ oscillating though.  The feedback must be coupling
> >>through the transformer core.
> >>
> >>If so, then the unit is almost running...likely a bad diode at that
> >> >point...there has been discussion here about sources for those
>diodes...I
> >> >use ones from old B&W TV's...
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>Lord knows, I hope you're right.  However, so far, it seems to point to
>the
> >>flyback.
> >>
> >>What do you think, given this *new* information?  Any suggestions?
> >>
> >>Sincerely,
> >>
> >>Robert
> >>
> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-
> >>** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in
>the
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From owner-vectorlist   Mon Dec  4 00:47:35 2000
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From: "Marc Alexander" <marc .au>
To: <vectorlist >
References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001203191504.00cd0170 >
Subject: Re: VECTOR: WG 19v2000 flyback sub?
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 16:29:08 +1100
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Status: RO


I had some luck testing the infamous dead red Amplifone HV transformers
by using an audio frequency generator connected to the B+ winding,
and looking at the other windings output on a CRO.
I don't have my notes here but I think I put in 10KHz, 10Vp-p sine wave
from an ordinary signal generator,
and looked at the outputs, if you want to know more send me a message,
I'll dig out my notes with the voltages and waveforms I saw.
The red transformer has an integral diode so I couldn't do resistance
measurements on the output. (note this is an Amplifone one)
Kind of a manual version of the LOPT meter I guess

Marc


> Even if the HV secondary winding was open you should still get the lower 
> voltages. Thus even if you get an infinite resistance on the HV lead you 
> should still get the lower voltages as they are, AIR separate windings. 
> Thus if NO output voltage at all, and the primary winding seems good, then 
> I would be looking at the driver circuitry...one of Bob Parker's (Dick 
> Smith Electronics in Australia) flyback/LOPT meters would be handy about 
> now (not an ad exactly, but we as well as a few other folks sell them). 
> Very handy to verify flybacks/HV Xformers.
> 
> John :-#)#
> 
> At 06:48 AM 12/4/00, Robert Bayes wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > >If you get oscillation, but nothing out of the flyback (actually a HV
> > >transformer, as a flyback needs a yoke winding for it's operation-but
> > >that's another group (Rasterlist))) then I would take a close look at the
> > >driver transistor first, and it's connector.
> >
> >Thanks, John, I have checked it to the extent my test equipment will allow
> >(DVM, scope).
> >
> > >
> > >On the other hand, I have had those HV transformers that had loose winding
> > >assembly and the wires leading from the coil break at the solder terminals.
> > >You might be able to re-solder them if you bend the broken one out
> > >carefully, burn off the insulation, then add a tiny extension wire. I've
> > >managed to fix a couple that way. Oh, and then wedge in silicon glue to
> > >freeze the coil windings. Other folks might want to check this on their B&W
> > >vector HV transformers to make sure theirs aren't loose and do some
> > >preventative maintenance.
> >
> >
> >
> >I removed the flyback and inspected it for broken connections as you've
> >indicated.  All connections were sound.  However, I still have a problem
> >determining the continuity of the HV secondary winding.  I read
> >"Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Testing of Flyback (LOPT) Transformers" on the
> >web and it was ambiguous about measuring the flyback coil continuity.
> >
> >If I cannot read a finite resistance (before the HV rectifier) and *any*
> >identifiable terminal on the flyback itself, I have a broken flyback -
> >right?  Unless I'm missing something here, or took the wrong exit to the
> >Magic Kingdom, the HV secondary is open.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.
> >
> >Where the anode wire physically connects to the core there is a small amount
> >of movement.  Could this wire have worked itself loose?  If so, what is the
> >likelihood of success in removing that epoxy, RTV or whatever it is coating
> >the transformer and resecuring the connection?
> >
> >I really appreciate your help.
> >
> >
> >
> >Robert
> >
> >
> > >
> > >John :-#)#
> > >
> > >At 08:33 PM 12/2/00, Robert Bayes wrote:
> > >>Thanks, John, for your quick response.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> >Are you sure the transformer is open?
> > >>
> > >>As best I can tell.  HV circuits are not my strong suit. I measure approx.
> > >>10Mohms (depending on the humidity down here in Houston) with the HV diode
> > >>*out* of circuit. Should I see this *high* a reading?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>A common failure on these is a bad HV
> > >> >diode...
> > >>
> > >>I bought one of those just in case.
> > >>
> > >>do you get the screen voltage (400V) and the 90V output from the HV
> > >> >unit?
> > >>
> > >>I get *no* screen voltage (~0.0V), *no* focus voltage (~0.0V) and only
> >about
> > >>10V (should be ~95V) for the spot killer circuitry.  I am mindful of the
> > >>characteristic hi-z of the circuit but it shouldn't yield *that* much of
> >an
> > >>error through my DVM!  Please correct me if I'm wrong.
> > >>
> > >>The HO circuit _is_ oscillating though.  The feedback must be coupling
> > >>through the transformer core.
> > >>
> > >>If so, then the unit is almost running...likely a bad diode at that
> > >> >point...there has been discussion here about sources for those
> >diodes...I
> > >> >use ones from old B&W TV's...
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Lord knows, I hope you're right.  However, so far, it seems to point to
> >the
> > >>flyback.
> > >>
> > >>What do you think, given this *new* information?  Any suggestions?
> > >>
> > >>Sincerely,
> > >>
> > >>Robert
> > >>
> > >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >-
> > >>** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in
> >the
> > >>** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other
> > >>** questions, comments, or problems to neil .
> > >
> > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >** questions, comments, or problems to neil .
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From owner-vectorlist   Mon Dec  4 01:29:10 2000
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From: John Robertson <jrr >
Subject: Re: VECTOR: WG 19v2000 flyback sub?
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Yes, I have spoken of this test a year or two ago as well. The ideal is to 
run the audio signal generator at the frequency of the transformer and then 
watch the voltage output. The ampliphones run  around 19khz and if the 
input voltage is 1/10 of the normal input, then the output voltages should 
ALSO be 1/10 or normal. Easy test if you have access to an audio gen. Or 
you can hook the hv transformer to the output of the 555, just watch that 
the normal B+ is isolated from the input winding. You want to have the HV 
transformer with one input to the 555 and the other to ground. If the 555 
is running on 12VDC, then you are about 1/5 of normal working voltage in...

John :-#)#

At 04:29 PM 12/4/00, Marc Alexander wrote:

>I had some luck testing the infamous dead red Amplifone HV transformers
>by using an audio frequency generator connected to the B+ winding,
>and looking at the other windings output on a CRO.
>I don't have my notes here but I think I put in 10KHz, 10Vp-p sine wave
>from an ordinary signal generator,
>and looked at the outputs, if you want to know more send me a message,
>I'll dig out my notes with the voltages and waveforms I saw.
>The red transformer has an integral diode so I couldn't do resistance
>measurements on the output. (note this is an Amplifone one)
>Kind of a manual version of the LOPT meter I guess
>
>Marc
>
>
> > Even if the HV secondary winding was open you should still get the lower
> > voltages. Thus even if you get an infinite resistance on the HV lead you
> > should still get the lower voltages as they are, AIR separate windings.
> > Thus if NO output voltage at all, and the primary winding seems good, then
> > I would be looking at the driver circuitry...one of Bob Parker's (Dick
> > Smith Electronics in Australia) flyback/LOPT meters would be handy about
> > now (not an ad exactly, but we as well as a few other folks sell them).
> > Very handy to verify flybacks/HV Xformers.
> >
> > John :-#)#
> >
> > At 06:48 AM 12/4/00, Robert Bayes wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > >If you get oscillation, but nothing out of the flyback (actually a HV
> > > >transformer, as a flyback needs a yoke winding for it's operation-but
> > > >that's another group (Rasterlist))) then I would take a close look 
> at the
> > > >driver transistor first, and it's connector.
> > >
> > >Thanks, John, I have checked it to the extent my test equipment will allow
> > >(DVM, scope).
> > >
> > > >
> > > >On the other hand, I have had those HV transformers that had loose 
> winding
> > > >assembly and the wires leading from the coil break at the solder 
> terminals.
> > > >You might be able to re-solder them if you bend the broken one out
> > > >carefully, burn off the insulation, then add a tiny extension wire. I've
> > > >managed to fix a couple that way. Oh, and then wedge in silicon glue to
> > > >freeze the coil windings. Other folks might want to check this on 
> their B&W
> > > >vector HV transformers to make sure theirs aren't loose and do some
> > > >preventative maintenance.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >I removed the flyback and inspected it for broken connections as you've
> > >indicated.  All connections were sound.  However, I still have a problem
> > >determining the continuity of the HV secondary winding.  I read
> > >"Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Testing of Flyback (LOPT) Transformers" on the
> > >web and it was ambiguous about measuring the flyback coil continuity.
> > >
> > >If I cannot read a finite resistance (before the HV rectifier) and *any*
> > >identifiable terminal on the flyback itself, I have a broken flyback -
> > >right?  Unless I'm missing something here, or took the wrong exit to the
> > >Magic Kingdom, the HV secondary is open.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.
> > >
> > >Where the anode wire physically connects to the core there is a small 
> amount
> > >of movement.  Could this wire have worked itself loose?  If so, what 
> is the
> > >likelihood of success in removing that epoxy, RTV or whatever it is 
> coating
> > >the transformer and resecuring the connection?
> > >
> > >I really appreciate your help.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Robert
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >John :-#)#
> > > >
> > > >At 08:33 PM 12/2/00, Robert Bayes wrote:
> > > >>Thanks, John, for your quick response.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> >Are you sure the transformer is open?
> > > >>
> > > >>As best I can tell.  HV circuits are not my strong suit. I measure 
> approx.
> > > >>10Mohms (depending on the humidity down here in Houston) with the 
> HV diode
> > > >>*out* of circuit. Should I see this *high* a reading?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>A common failure on these is a bad HV
> > > >> >diode...
> > > >>
> > > >>I bought one of those just in case.
> > > >>
> > > >>do you get the screen voltage (400V) and the 90V output from the HV
> > > >> >unit?
> > > >>
> > > >>I get *no* screen voltage (~0.0V), *no* focus voltage (~0.0V) and only
> > >about
> > > >>10V (should be ~95V) for the spot killer circuitry.  I am mindful 
> of the
> > > >>characteristic hi-z of the circuit but it shouldn't yield *that* 
> much of
> > >an
> > > >>error through my DVM!  Please correct me if I'm wrong.
> > > >>
> > > >>The HO circuit _is_ oscillating though.  The feedback must be coupling
> > > >>through the transformer core.
> > > >>
> > > >>If so, then the unit is almost running...likely a bad diode at that
> > > >> >point...there has been discussion here about sources for those
> > >diodes...I
> > > >> >use ones from old B&W TV's...
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>Lord knows, I hope you're right.  However, so far, it seems to point to
> > >the
> > > >>flyback.
> > > >>
> > > >>What do you think, given this *new* information?  Any suggestions?
> > > >>
> > > >>Sincerely,
> > > >>
> > > >>Robert
> > > >>
> > > >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ------
> > >-
> > > >>** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in
> > >the
> > > >>** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other
> > > >>** questions, comments, or problems to neil .
> > > >
> > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- 
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> in the
> > > >** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other
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> > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ----
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> > >** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other
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Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 00:52:10 -0600
From: Robert Bayes <RobertAB@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: VECTOR: WG 19v2000 flyback sub?
To: vectorlist 
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>Even if the HV secondary winding was open you should still get the lower
>voltages. Thus even if you get an infinite resistance on the HV lead you
>should still get the lower voltages as they are, AIR separate windings.
>Thus if NO output voltage at all, and the primary winding seems good, then
>I would be looking at the driver circuitry..


John, I guess this goes to show you that even a parrot can learn to speak
through endless repetition.  I had totally forgotten that I told you there
was no screen or focus voltage.  You're right, if the  flyback winding was
open, it wouldn't kill the B+ or grid voltages. D'uh.  I'll check to see
what's pulling down those voltages by removing the loads one at a time.

Incidentally, I checked the HV secondary winding on another known good
flyback and couldn't read continuity with any of the connections.
Obviously, the HV has another path to ground.  Perhaps via that big
"capacitor" partly formed by the aluminized coating of the tube (yeah, I
know it's DC, but, it's high frequency and far from pure).




.one of Bob Parker's (Dick
>Smith Electronics in Australia) flyback/LOPT meters would be handy about
>now (not an ad exactly, but we as well as a few other folks sell them).
>Very handy to verify flybacks/HV Xformers.
>

Thanks for the reference, John.  As you can see from this thread, Marc
Alexander has a method he's documented to test fbt's.  [Marc, if you're
reading this, please email me the info to which you referred in your email.
Thanks a lot.]

And, thanks a lot to you, John, for, not the least of which, your patience.

Sincerely,

Robert "Birdbrain" Bayes

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Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 10:36:14 -0500 (EST)
From: "Christopher X. Candreva" <chris >
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Subject: Re: VECTOR: Pictures of Joel's Penny Arcade
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On Mon, 4 Dec 2000, Rosenzweig, Joel B wrote:

OK -- three questions:

> A lot of people ask about the neon sign.  I had this custom made by a guy

Make that two. :-)

Is that Lunar Lander in an Asteroids Cab ?

What's the machine that looks like an all-black Tempest with a Star Wars
controller ?

-Chris

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris  -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/

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From: "Rosenzweig, Joel B" <joel.b.rosenzweig >
To: "'vectorlist >
Subject: VECTOR: Pictures of Joel's Penny Arcade
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 07:21:40 -0800 
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Hi all,

Some of you have asked to see pictures of my basement arcade.  My new son
was on his way any day and I wanted to be able to share pictures of him with
the family, so I decided to get some "real" internet access from home and
some space on the web to share some photos.  My son arrived on Thanksgiving
day, so now I had an opportunity to put together a website with some
pictures of the boy and the arcade. :-)  How convenient.

Visit:  http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze25r6t and select Joel's Penny
Arcade from the featured links.  I built this room over the course of about
6 months, working on it in my spare moments after work and on the weekends.
I started it the first week of July of 1999, and finished the first week of
January, 2000.  What you'll see are the result of 40+ trips to Home Depot,
lots of work, and a lot of fun.  These pictures were taken when the arcade
was just completed.  A few machines were added since these pictures were
taken, but the room looks essentially the same now.

A lot of people ask about the neon sign.  I had this custom made by a guy
named Howie Cohen, who runs a shop called Just Neon, in Utica, NY.  FYI, his
address is http://www.borg.com/~hcohen/ if anyone is interested in
contacting him for your own custom neon work.  My wife's name is Penny, so
the name works out very well.  Without her, it probably would have been
Joel's Arcade. :-)  My brother designed the art for the sign after I gave
him the theme.  "I want a PAC-MAN ghost ... BIG... BLUE!"  He ran with that,
and several iterations later, we came up with the art for the sign shown.
You've got to see it turned on in real life.  The colors are amazing - the
photos simply do not capture the real glow.  (Yes, you can tell that I
really like the sign.)

Enjoy the pictures.

Joel-

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Subject: Re: VECTOR: Pictures of Joel's Penny Arcade
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Nice one, Joel.
Is that a Lunar Lander in an Asteroids cabinet ? ;-)

Greets, traunStaa


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "Rosenzweig, Joel B" <joel.b.rosenzweig >
An: <vectorlist >
Gesendet: Montag, 04. Dezember 2000 16:21
Betreff: VECTOR: Pictures of Joel's Penny Arcade


> Hi all,
>
> Some of you have asked to see pictures of my basement arcade.  My new son
> was on his way any day and I wanted to be able to share pictures of him
with
> the family, so I decided to get some "real" internet access from home and
> some space on the web to share some photos.  My son arrived on
Thanksgiving
> day, so now I had an opportunity to put together a website with some
> pictures of the boy and the arcade. :-)  How convenient.
>
> Visit:  http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze25r6t and select Joel's Penny
> Arcade from the featured links.  I built this room over the course of
about
> 6 months, working on it in my spare moments after work and on the
weekends.
> I started it the first week of July of 1999, and finished the first week
of
> January, 2000.  What you'll see are the result of 40+ trips to Home Depot,
> lots of work, and a lot of fun.  These pictures were taken when the arcade
> was just completed.  A few machines were added since these pictures were
> taken, but the room looks essentially the same now.
>
> A lot of people ask about the neon sign.  I had this custom made by a guy
> named Howie Cohen, who runs a shop called Just Neon, in Utica, NY.  FYI,
his
> address is http://www.borg.com/~hcohen/ if anyone is interested in
> contacting him for your own custom neon work.  My wife's name is Penny, so
> the name works out very well.  Without her, it probably would have been
> Joel's Arcade. :-)  My brother designed the art for the sign after I gave
> him the theme.  "I want a PAC-MAN ghost ... BIG... BLUE!"  He ran with
that,
> and several iterations later, we came up with the art for the sign shown.
> You've got to see it turned on in real life.  The colors are amazing - the
> photos simply do not capture the real glow.  (Yes, you can tell that I
> really like the sign.)
>
> Enjoy the pictures.
>
> Joel-
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in
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> ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other
> ** questions, comments, or problems to neil .
>

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From owner-vectorlist   Mon Dec  4 13:38:49 2000
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Message-ID: <39B5C4829263D411AA93009027AE9EBB015F6CD2@FMSMSX35>
From: "Rosenzweig, Joel B" <joel.b.rosenzweig >
To: "'vectorlist >
Subject: RE: VECTOR: Pictures of Joel's Penny Arcade
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 10:20:44 -0800 
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> 
> Is that Lunar Lander in an Asteroids Cab ?

It is all Lunar Lander components i.e. (PCB, control panel and marquee) in
an Asteroids cabinet.  I had an empty Asteroids cabinet, so I put it to use
to put this machine back together.   I know it's not exactly correct, but I
can live with it for now.

> 
> What's the machine that looks like an all-black Tempest with 
> a Star Wars
> controller ?

This machine has served two purposes.  Originally, I bought the all black
Tempest cabinet just because it was in fantastic shape.  For $25, how can
you go wrong?  I thought it would make a good generic game cabinet.  I
eventually located enough parts and pieces for Star Wars, so I mounted the
controller and all the SW electronics.  That worked well, until I found a
real SW machine.  I had a real Tempest in the collection at this point, and
didn't need one without side art, so I used the cabinet again to house Road
Blasters.  I machined an attachment to temporarily convert the analog Star
Wars controller for use the optical components for Road Blasters.  At the
time of the picture, that's how the game was operated.  I've since become
really incredibly bored with Road Blasters (no other game I own has done
this to me so far), and have removed it from the cabinet.  I no longer know
what to do with this cabinet.  I'll figure something out.. I've been tempted
to put Space Duel into it, but that project is a ways away given everything
else going on these days.  So for now, this cabinet sits in the arcade,
lifeless.  (very sad..)

The vectors in the arcade include, Star Wars, Tempest, Lunar Lander,
Asteroids, Battlezone, and The Empire Strikes Back (not in photo, but in
it's own Star Wars cabinet with ESB graphics - ala Matt).  I have Space
Duel, and Gravitar in PCB form only.  Raster cabinets include, Galaxian,
Missile Command (now with control panel!), Pole Position, Defender, Ms Pac
Man cocktail, a 1995'ish Taito release of Space Invaders called Space
Invaders DX (this game lets you choose either of 4 original modes of play,
and the game is done in color so it draws all the backgrounds correctly --
this game occupies the Space Invaders Deluxe cabinet.)  There's also a
Pac-Man cocktail table which is waiting to have the artwork reapplied - for
now, it allows me to play a variety of vertical raster games all in one
cabinet, including Dig Dug, Frogger, Scramble, Centipede and Millipede
w/joystick interface, Time Pilot 84, Namco Classics Vol 1 (Galaga, Xevious,
Mappy), Xevious, Galaxian, and a few others that I'm forgetting right now.
I have a handful of horizontal raster games in PCB format only that are
waiting for some play ... Joust, Moon Patrol, Return Of the Jedi, Marble
Madness and a couple others that I'm also forgetting.  And of course,
there's a Black Knight pinball machine to round things out.

Joel-





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From: Paul Kahler <phkahler@Oakland.edu>
Message-Id: <200012042144.QAA12413@saturn4.acs.oakland.edu>
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Pictures of Joel's Penny Arcade
To: vectorlist 
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 16:44:12 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <39B5C4829263D411AA93009027AE9EBB015F6CD2@FMSMSX35> from "Rosenzweig, Joel B" at Dec 04, 2000 10:20:44 AM
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> time of the picture, that's how the game was operated.  I've since become
> really incredibly bored with Road Blasters (no other game I own has done
> this to me so far), and have removed it from the cabinet.  I no longer know
> what to do with this cabinet.  I'll figure something out.. I've been tempted
> to put Space Duel into it, but that project is a ways away given everything
> else going on these days.  So for now, this cabinet sits in the arcade,
> lifeless.  (very sad..)

It seems like Road Blasters would be more desireable than an empty cabinet.
Someone else may want to play it :-)
-- 
 ___   __   _   _  _
|   \ /  \ | | | || |       phkahler@oakland.edu     Engineer/Programmer
|  _/| || || |_| || |__     " What makes someone care so much?
|_|  |_||_| \___/ |____)      for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H.
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From: "John Mehrtens" <John >
To: <vectorlist >
Subject: VECTOR: Greetings
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 00:29:33 -0500
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http://www.magicnet.net/~yak/pix/tx.jpg

I was at Jeff Minter's* site and saw this picture.

I just HAD to share it.

Wishing all of you the best this holiday season.

Cheers,

John

*Jeff Minter AKA Yak AKA creator of many console games as well as Tempest
2000.

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Message-ID: <001501c05eb9$31d3d1e0$0d01a8c0@kevin2>
From: "Kev" <mowerman >
To: <vectorlist >
References: <200012042144.QAA12413@saturn4.acs.oakland.edu>
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Pictures of Joel's Penny Arcade
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 07:45:03 -0500
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Looks like a good cabinet for the Bradley Trainer hack.

Kev


>
> > time of the picture, that's how the game was operated.  I've since
become
> > really incredibly bored with Road Blasters (no other game I own has done
> > this to me so far), and have removed it from the cabinet.  I no longer
know
> > what to do with this cabinet.  I'll figure something out.. I've been
tempted
> > to put Space Duel into it, but that project is a ways away given
everything
> > else going on these days.  So for now, this cabinet sits in the arcade,
> > lifeless.  (very sad..)
>
> It seems like Road Blasters would be more desireable than an empty
cabinet.
> Someone else may want to play it :-)


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Message-ID: <3A2D9683.1CF2F7FD@concentric.net>
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 17:29:40 -0800
From: Mark E Davidson <Burbs1@concentric.net>
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I guess its been about a year now, but I still get requests from some of
you (who missed the first run) for a re-do of the Fluke Training video
CDs
Rather then answer all the Emails (I have lost some of them anyway) Ill
make the availability open to the group again.
    For those who don't remember, this was 2 tapes shot in home brew
fashion, of a coarse in using the 9010a, converted to Real video and
MPEG1 and sits on 2 to 4 disks (don't remember off the top of my head)
    Once again, they will be offered to the group on a donation basis.
SO.. That means if you want to help the cause, you can send, blank CDRs,
$$$, An NOS Go8 monitor, whatever. If you don't want to help out, the
Cds are still free. This worked out great last time as some sent
replacement cds, cash to cover shipping and some even helped me find a
few lost items I needed to get some games back in shape! (right now I
REALLY need a major Havoc marquee for a space duel and a Quantum
marquee). This group rocks and you should all feel very good with
yourselves.
    Anyway, just the link at the bottom to email me if you interested so
I can get a head count and start the burning, and sticker printing
again.

-=Mark=--

mailto:mark ?subject=Count me in on the Fluke CD

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To: vectorlist 
From: John Robertson <jrr >
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Re Run of the Fluke 9010a training video
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Great!

On a slightly different slant, does anyone else have copies of "Fluke 
Troubleshooter"? This is for the 9000 series.

I have the compiled 1st year - 1983, V2 #1, V3 #1, and V3 #2 plus some 
errata for the pods data books. I thinkI sent this to Al at one time, but 
if not I'll pack it with something else to send to Mark for him to scan and 
include. These are handy as they cover subjects like: adapters for other 
processors (2650, 8X300), building a multi-port scanner for testing a bunch 
of I/O ports rapidly, and other cool tips.

John :-#)#

At 12:29 PM 12/6/00, Mark E Davidson wrote:
>I guess its been about a year now, but I still get requests from some of
>you (who missed the first run) for a re-do of the Fluke Training video
>CDs
>Rather then answer all the Emails (I have lost some of them anyway) Ill
>make the availability open to the group again.
>     For those who don't remember, this was 2 tapes shot in home brew
>fashion, of a coarse in using the 9010a, converted to Real video and
>MPEG1 and sits on 2 to 4 disks (don't remember off the top of my head)
>     Once again, they will be offered to the group on a donation basis.
>SO.. That means if you want to help the cause, you can send, blank CDRs,
>$$$, An NOS Go8 monitor, whatever. If you don't want to help out, the
>Cds are still free. This worked out great last time as some sent
>replacement cds, cash to cover shipping and some even helped me find a
>few lost items I needed to get some games back in shape! (right now I
>REALLY need a major Havoc marquee for a space duel and a Quantum
>marquee). This group rocks and you should all feel very good with
>yourselves.
>     Anyway, just the link at the bottom to email me if you interested so
>I can get a head count and start the burning, and sticker printing
>again.
>
>-=Mark=--
>
>mailto:mark ?subject=Count me in on the Fluke CD
>
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Message-ID: <3A2D7977.F5D48282 >
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 17:25:43 -0600
From: tom mcclintock <tomm >
Organization: MG Capital
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Subject: VECTOR: Cinematronics Hovercraft?
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About a year ago, I recall someone saying they had (or had access to)
the ROMs for the Cinematronics vector game Hovercraft. Anything come of
that?


tom
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From owner-vectorlist   Tue Dec  5 19:13:54 2000
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Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 17:49:58 -0600
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Subject: VECTOR: Battlezone cocktail
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For those that are interested (clay, hint, hint), the latest beta of
MAME includes the driver for the Battelzone cocktail, so the ROMs should
be floating about.

Here's the ROM detail:

ROM_START( bzonec ) /* cocktail version */
	ROM_REGION( 0x10000, REGION_CPU1, 0 )	/* 64k for code */
	ROM_LOAD( "bz1g4800",   0x4800, 0x0800, 0xe228dd64 )
	ROM_LOAD( "bz1f5000",   0x5000, 0x0800, 0xdddfac9a )
	ROM_LOAD( "bz1e5800",   0x5800, 0x0800, 0x7e00e823 )
	ROM_LOAD( "bz1d6000",   0x6000, 0x0800, 0xc0f8c068 )
	ROM_LOAD( "bz1c6800",   0x6800, 0x0800, 0x5adc64bd )
	ROM_LOAD( "bz1b7000",   0x7000, 0x0800, 0xed8a860e )
	ROM_LOAD( "bz1a7800",   0x7800, 0x0800, 0x04babf45 )
	ROM_RELOAD(             0xf800, 0x0800 )	/* for reset/interrupt vectors
*/
	/* Mathbox ROMs */
	ROM_LOAD( "036422.01",  0x3000, 0x0800, 0x7414177b )	// bz3a3000
	ROM_LOAD( "bz3b3800",   0x3800, 0x0800, 0x76cf57f6 )
ROM_END



tm
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From owner-vectorlist   Wed Dec  6 11:32:11 2000
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From: "Tom Cloud" <computerspace >
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Subject: Re: VECTOR: Greetings
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 08:09:47 -0800
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Too Cool!  I wonder how he did that and if it's available to us non-techie 
types?

Happy Holidays!,
Tom Cloud



>From: "John Mehrtens" <John >
>Reply-To: vectorlist 
>To: <vectorlist >
>Subject: VECTOR: Greetings
>Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 00:29:33 -0500
>
>http://www.magicnet.net/~yak/pix/tx.jpg
>
>I was at Jeff Minter's* site and saw this picture.
>
>I just HAD to share it.
>
>Wishing all of you the best this holiday season.
>
>Cheers,
>
>John
>
>*Jeff Minter AKA Yak AKA creator of many console games as well as Tempest
>2000.
>
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_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

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From owner-vectorlist   Wed Dec  6 11:39:36 2000
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Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 11:29:56 -0500 (EST)
From: "Christopher X. Candreva" <chris >
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On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, Tom Cloud wrote:

> Too Cool!  I wonder how he did that and if it's available to us non-techie
> types?

It's also available on Game Archve in the Danergous Dan museum section.  I
think it's a scan of a card from the 80s ?

-Chris

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris  -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/

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From owner-vectorlist   Wed Dec  6 14:03:14 2000
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To: vectorlist 
From: John Robertson <jrr >
Subject: VECTOR: WTB: Access doors for Tempest c/t
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Too lazy to make these, anyone have them? Also looking for the c/t control 
panels with no extra holes drilled in them....

John :-#)#

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From owner-vectorlist   Wed Dec  6 16:36:45 2000
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From: Linuxx4me 
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Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 16:19:59 EST
Subject: Re: VECTOR: WTB: Access doors for Tempest c/t
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I need some also!



In a message dated 12/6/2000 2:03:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
jrr  writes:

<< Too lazy to make these, anyone have them? Also looking for the c/t control 
 panels with no extra holes drilled in them....
 
 John :-#)#
  >>
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From owner-vectorlist   Wed Dec  6 17:06:21 2000
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I was first!

Actually, it might be an idea to have someone make these up. Anyone handy 
with wood?

John :-#)#

At 08:19 AM 12/7/00, Linuxx4me  wrote:
>I need some also!
>
>
>
>In a message dated 12/6/2000 2:03:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>jrr  writes:
>
><< Too lazy to make these, anyone have them? Also looking for the c/t control
>  panels with no extra holes drilled in them....
>
>  John :-#)#
>   >>
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-----Original Message-----
From: "John Mehrtens" <John >
To: <vectorlist >
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 00:29:33 -0500
Subject: VECTOR: Greetings

> http://www.magicnet.net/~yak/pix/tx.jpg
> 
> I was at Jeff Minter's* site and saw this picture.
> 
> I just HAD to share it.
> 
> Wishing all of you the best this holiday season.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> John
> 
> *Jeff Minter AKA Yak AKA creator of many console games as well as Tempest
> 2000.
> 
I met jeff many times, he looks like JESUS - but he is GOD!
(and on the seventh day he created - IRIDIS-ALPHA!!!)

L8r.

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From owner-vectorlist   Thu Dec  7 10:23:38 2000
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From: "chumblespuzz" <chumblespuzz >
To: <vectorlist >
References: <NDBBJACGOLKMMNCCEBCPCEOGCJAA.John >
Subject: VECTOR: Space Duel CPO Differences
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 10:04:03 -0500
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Hi all,

I have been looking at some Space Duel CPOs recently and noticed there were
two different types. Check out the pix below:

A) http://www.basementarcade.com/arcade/sd/sdoverlay.jpg
B) http://joystick.virtualave.net/images/spaceduel/sd-cp.jpg

The main difference is in the upper right side where on type B there is a
vertical line, some additional text ("Splitting Objects") and smaller
objects. The surprising difference, though, is in the Space Station
Instructions section. In type A it says "When one player is destroyed, the
other is too" and in type B it says "When space station is hit twice, both
players are destroyed." From what I recall, on every SD I've played the
instructions on type A are correct. Was there a version where type B was
correct?

Also, which CPO type is more popular? What type do you have?

-roy-


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From owner-vectorlist   Thu Dec  7 10:39:58 2000
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From: "Jhagen" <jhagen@concentric.net>
To: <vectorlist >
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Subject: Re: VECTOR: Space Duel CPO Differences
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 10:25:15 -0500
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I have type B on the CPO.  It plays by type A rules, however, the SD
board in place is not the original....

James Hagen



> Hi all,
>
> I have been looking at some Space Duel CPOs recently and noticed
there were
> two different types. Check out the pix below:
>
> A) http://www.basementarcade.com/arcade/sd/sdoverlay.jpg
> B) http://joystick.virtualave.net/images/spaceduel/sd-cp.jpg
>
> The main difference is in the upper right side where on type B there
is a
> vertical line, some additional text ("Splitting Objects") and
smaller
> objects. The surprising difference, though, is in the Space Station
> Instructions section. In type A it says "When one player is
destroyed, the
> other is too" and in type B it says "When space station is hit
twice, both
> players are destroyed." From what I recall, on every SD I've played
the
> instructions on type A are correct. Was there a version where type B
was
> correct?
>
> Also, which CPO type is more popular? What type do you have?
>
> -roy-



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Subject: Re: VECTOR: Space Duel CPO Differences
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My experience has always been that it takes two shots to kill a space
station.  In two player mode, the first player hit turns into a slow
turning/shooting ship and the second hit on either player lights the fuse.
In single player space station mode it's a little less clear.  The player
hit first turns into a slow shooter, but I think the turn rate of both
ships (they always face the same way) depends on WHICH player got hit
first.




                                                                                                                                      
                    "chumblespuzz"                                                                                                    
                    <chumblespuzz >                                                      
                    com>                       cc:                                                                                    
                    Sent by:                   Subject:     VECTOR: Space Duel CPO Differences                                        
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                    nthcom.com                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                      
                    12/07/2000 10:04 AM                                                                                               
                    Please respond to                                                                                                 
                    vectorlist                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                      




In type A it says "When one player is destroyed, the
other is too" and in type B it says "When space station is hit twice, both
players are destroyed." From what I recall, on every SD I've played the
instructions on type A are correct. Was there a version where type B was
correct?



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From owner-vectorlist   Thu Dec  7 10:53:40 2000
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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 10:26:15 -0500 (EST)
From: "Christopher X. Candreva" <chris >
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Subject: Re: VECTOR: Space Duel CPO Differences
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On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, chumblespuzz wrote:

> objects. The surprising difference, though, is in the Space Station
> Instructions section. In type A it says "When one player is destroyed, the
> other is too" and in type B it says "When space station is hit twice, both
> players are destroyed." From what I recall, on every SD I've played the
> instructions on type A are correct. Was there a version where type B was
> correct?

I was under the impression B was the standard: In space station mode, when
one ship is hit, it becaomes 'damaged' -- only like every third shot works,
etc.  A second hit destroys it, and the tether becomes a fuse that blows up
the other ship in about 2-3 seconds.

> Also, which CPO type is more popular? What type do you have?

I have B -- Three images and a line -- fuzzy picture of my machine at
http://www.westnet.com/~chris/arcade/MyBasement/SpaceDuel.jpg

-Chris

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris  -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/


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From: FBowen 
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Space Duel CPO Differences
To: vectorlist 
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Unless there were different versions of the game, rule A and B are one and
the same.

For rule A, you need to ask what it takes to destroy (not damage) the space
station.  It's two hits.

Rule B, doesn't address the damage of the first hit (but you find out soon
enough! :-)




                                                                                                                                      
                    "Jhagen"                                                                                                          
                    <jhagen >                                                      
                    net>                       cc:                                                                                    
                    Sent by:                   Subject:     Re: VECTOR: Space Duel CPO Differences                                    
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                    nthcom.com                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                      
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I have type B on the CPO.  It plays by type A rules, however, the SD
board in place is not the original....

James Hagen



> Hi all,
>
> In type A it says "When one player is
destroyed, the
> other is too" and in type B it says "When space station is hit
twice, both
> players are destroyed." From what I recall, on every SD I've played
the
> instructions on type A are correct. Was there a version where type B
was
> correct?


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From owner-vectorlist   Thu Dec  7 11:12:08 2000
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From: Paul.Tonizzo 
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Space Duel CPO Differences
To: vectorlist 
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 10:44:38 -0500
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>The main difference is in the upper right side where on type B there is a
>vertical line, some additional text ("Splitting Objects") and smaller
>objects. The surprising difference, though, is in the Space Station
>Instructions section. In type A it says "When one player is destroyed, the
>other is too" and in type B it says "When space station is hit twice, both
>players are destroyed." From what I recall, on every SD I've played the
>instructions on type A are correct. Was there a version where type B was
>correct?

A is correct except it should say "when one player is hit twice or both
players
are hit once, the station is destroyed".  That's how my game plays and it's
what I remember from past games.

>Also, which CPO type is more popular? What type do you have?

Pretty sure I have:
http://joystick.virtualave.net/images/spaceduel/sd-cp.jpg

Paul


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From owner-vectorlist   Thu Dec  7 12:04:49 2000
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From: "chumblespuzz" <chumblespuzz >
To: <vectorlist >
References: <Pine.GSO.4.30.0012071022190.23879-100000@westnet>
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Space Duel CPO Differences
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:41:24 -0500
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I found out that the type A CPO is a Rev. A. Does anyone know the version of
the type B CPO?

-roy-

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher X. Candreva" <chris >
To: <vectorlist >
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Space Duel CPO Differences


> On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, chumblespuzz wrote:
>
> > objects. The surprising difference, though, is in the Space Station
> > Instructions section. In type A it says "When one player is destroyed,
the
> > other is too" and in type B it says "When space station is hit twice,
both
> > players are destroyed." From what I recall, on every SD I've played the
> > instructions on type A are correct. Was there a version where type B was
> > correct?
>
> I was under the impression B was the standard: In space station mode, when
> one ship is hit, it becaomes 'damaged' -- only like every third shot
works,
> etc.  A second hit destroys it, and the tether becomes a fuse that blows
up
> the other ship in about 2-3 seconds.
>
> > Also, which CPO type is more popular? What type do you have?
>
> I have B -- Three images and a line -- fuzzy picture of my machine at
> http://www.westnet.com/~chris/arcade/MyBasement/SpaceDuel.jpg
>
> -Chris
>
> ==========================================================
> Chris Candreva  -- chris  -- (914) 967-7816
> WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
> http://www.westnet.com/
>
>
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From owner-vectorlist   Thu Dec  7 12:32:58 2000
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From: "chumblespuzz" <chumblespuzz >
To: <vectorlist >
References: <OFA8A809A8.08A9C8A7-ON852569AE.00555E05 >
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Space Duel CPO Differences
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:39:36 -0500
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Uh... yup! You are right. It is saying the same thing in two different ways.

-roy-

----- Original Message -----
From: <FBowen >
To: <vectorlist >
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Space Duel CPO Differences


>
> Unless there were different versions of the game, rule A and B are one and
> the same.
>
> For rule A, you need to ask what it takes to destroy (not damage) the
space
> station.  It's two hits.
>
> Rule B, doesn't address the damage of the first hit (but you find out soon
> enough! :-)
>
>
>
>
>
>                     "Jhagen"
>                     <jhagen@concentric.        To:
<vectorlist >
>                     net>                       cc:
>                     Sent by:                   Subject:     Re: VECTOR:
Space Duel CPO Differences
>                     owner-vectorlist@sy
>                     nthcom.com
>
>
>                     12/07/2000 10:25 AM
>                     Please respond to
>                     vectorlist
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I have type B on the CPO.  It plays by type A rules, however, the SD
> board in place is not the original....
>
> James Hagen
>
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > In type A it says "When one player is
> destroyed, the
> > other is too" and in type B it says "When space station is hit
> twice, both
> > players are destroyed." From what I recall, on every SD I've played
> the
> > instructions on type A are correct. Was there a version where type B
> was
> > correct?
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in
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> ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other
> ** questions, comments, or problems to neil .

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