From owner-vectorlist   Sun Jul  1 03:05:41 2001
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Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 02:45:52 -0400
From: kegowland 
To: vectorlist 
Subject: VECTOR: Has anyone repro'ed Major Havoc marquee or cpo for Tempest conv.?
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Title says it all.
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From owner-vectorlist   Sun Jul  1 03:35:46 2001
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From: Thomas43 
Message-ID: <10f.1ec04b6.2870292a >
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 03:20:10 EDT
Subject: VECTOR: Two pictures
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Just though I would share pictures of some stuff I had stashed in the garage. 
 I just realized that I have way too much crap stored away.  Since there is 
an energy crisis here in California, I may have to burn this stuff to keep 
the lights on!

www.safestuff.com/quadpokeys.jpg

www.safestuff.com/pentrans.jpg

Scott
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From owner-vectorlist   Sun Jul  1 04:27:30 2001
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From: "David Shoemaker" <davids@oz.net>
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Subject: Re: VECTOR: Two pictures
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Ok so how many Firefoxes did you kill to get all those quad's?

#1 question on everyone's mind, are the pentrans good?
#2 question, how much for one.

:)
----- Original Message -----
From: <Thomas43 >
To: <vectorlist >
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 12:20 AM
Subject: VECTOR: Two pictures


> Just though I would share pictures of some stuff I had stashed in the
garage.
>  I just realized that I have way too much crap stored away.  Since there
is
> an energy crisis here in California, I may have to burn this stuff to keep
> the lights on!
>
> www.safestuff.com/quadpokeys.jpg
>
> www.safestuff.com/pentrans.jpg
>
> Scott
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From owner-vectorlist   Sun Jul  1 10:56:50 2001
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From: "Tek" <mypearl@dds.nl>
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Subject: Re: VECTOR: Two pictures
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 16:37:37 +0200
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> Just though I would share pictures of some stuff I had stashed in the
garage.
>  I just realized that I have way too much crap stored away.  Since there
is
> an energy crisis here in California, I may have to burn this stuff to keep
> the lights on!

Is that 'PenTrans' xformer used in the amplifone XY monitor? If zo, is it a
very common xfromer compared to the well-known 'red one', and do they still
work ?

Mendel






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From owner-vectorlist   Sun Jul  1 14:41:29 2001
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From: "Bret Pehrson" <bret >
To: "Vector" <vectorlist >
Subject: VECTOR: Amplifone
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 11:22:23 -0700
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Can a bad HV board fry an otherwise working deflection board?

Can a bad deflection board fry an otherwise working HV board?

---
Bret Pehrson
http://www.vaps.org/members/nv/bret .html
mailto:bret 
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From owner-vectorlist   Sun Jul  1 17:41:52 2001
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Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 14:25:42 -0700
From: Matt Rossiter <rossiter@ni.net>
Subject: VECTOR: Simple Question about Armor Attack
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I know that at one time Cinematronics updated Star Castle to make it a
little more challenging to the player.

Did they do the same thing with Armor Attack?  I've owned two armor
attacks and my most recent one seems to get harder to play faster.  Was
there a modification in the roms?  I think I prefer the slower paced
one.

Thanks.


Matt

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From owner-vectorlist   Sun Jul  1 17:48:57 2001
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From: Zonn <zonn >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Simple Question about Armor Attack
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 14:33:56 -0700
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On Sun, 01 Jul 2001 14:25:42 -0700, Matt Rossiter <rossiter@ni.net> wrote:

>I know that at one time Cinematronics updated Star Castle to make it a
>little more challenging to the player.
>
>Did they do the same thing with Armor Attack?  I've owned two armor
>attacks and my most recent one seems to get harder to play faster.  Was
>there a modification in the roms?  I think I prefer the slower paced
>one.

Uh uh, and how long ago was that?  Maybe you're just getting slower.  ;^)

Seriously, can you get a copy of the ROMs.  Other than a prototype rom set where
the morse code was altered, I haven't heard of a different speed.

Of course it could be that the known ROMs are all the faster ones. Ideally a
copy of your previous machine's ROMs would be the ones to compare with.

-Zonn
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From owner-vectorlist   Sun Jul  1 19:22:15 2001
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Message-ID: <001901c10282$111cf900$4c00a8c0@MarcLaptop>
From: "Marc Alexander" <marc .au>
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References: <NDEOIPIOHABEACPIPFLMIEKECJAA.bret >
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Amplifone
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:03:38 +1000
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> Can a bad HV board fry an otherwise working deflection board?
> Can a bad deflection board fry an otherwise working HV board?

I can't say 100% for sure, but I'd say it's a likely Yes, both ways.
I have personally had a bad HV board blow up a good deflection
board while testing, though it was just the once, but enough
learning for me :-)

The HV board has the +/- 24V supplies in it, and they go to the
deflection board. I suspect a failure or spikes on the +/- 24V
rail caused by a fault on either board can cause damage to either
board. It's more likely to harm the deflection board though, by
causing latchup of the push-pull deflection transistors or drive
circuitry. The deflection board that blew on me when I had a faulty HV
unit connected had some deflection transistors fail as a 
dead short (and blew the fuses on it).
It's not as likely the other way, but possible if a bad power supply
rail voltage, spikes or ripple cause the HV unit BU406D drive transistor to
lock on or change the duty cycle greatly, it may overheat or overvoltage
the transformer or drive transistor.
The only way to test properly would be to power up and test the boards
individually, especially test the HV unit without the deflection board
plugged in, which isn't too hard to do. You could put some load
resistors on the +/- 24V output of the HV unit to check the supply capacity and voltage, 
and also check and adjust the HV level with a proper isolated HV probe, 
and that may make it safer to plug the deflection board in once you know the +/- 24V
supplies and HV level are ok.

Do you have the Amplifone manual and schematics and other troubleshooting documents?

Marc

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bret Pehrson" <bret >
To: "Vector" <vectorlist >
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 4:22 AM
Subject: VECTOR: Amplifone


> Can a bad HV board fry an otherwise working deflection board?
> 
> Can a bad deflection board fry an otherwise working HV board?
> 
> ---
> Bret Pehrson
> http://www.vaps.org/members/nv/bret .html
> mailto:bret 
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From owner-vectorlist   Sun Jul  1 19:28:48 2001
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From: "Evrovski, Andrew" <andy >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: VECTOR: Snap,crackle, hopefully not pop
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 20:09:42 -0300 
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Gang,

	This may sound naive, but anyone tell me if it's the tube that is
crapped if I hear the arcing?  I mean the neck board, monitor board etc are
OK (ie. no burnt fuses, components that I can see).  Monitor start looking
wavy as if the sync was off and then progressively got worse.  

Andy

P.S. I know this is a vectorlist so forgive the fact that this is off topic
(raster monitor).

Andrew Evrovski
HPC Development Director
Cyberplex
t: 902.429.4721 ext.109
f: 902.423.0899
www.cyberplex.com 
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From owner-vectorlist   Sun Jul  1 19:40:30 2001
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Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 16:38:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Neil Bradley <neil >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Snap,crackle, hopefully not pop
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> 	This may sound naive, but anyone tell me if it's the tube that is
> crapped if I hear the arcing?  I mean the neck board, monitor board etc are
> OK (ie. no burnt fuses, components that I can see).  Monitor start looking
> wavy as if the sync was off and then progressively got worse.  

Are you sure the arcing isn't in the flyback?

> P.S. I know this is a vectorlist so forgive the fact that this is off topic
> (raster monitor).

Try posting it to rasterlist  instead... Since it applies to
vector as well, it's certainly a valid question.

-->Neil

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Neil Bradley            Duffman   : "Duff beer is made from fresh mountain...."
Synthcom Systems, Inc.  Contestant: "Goat!"
ICQ #29402898	        Homer     : "MMmmm... you can really taste the goat.."

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From owner-vectorlist   Sun Jul  1 21:45:23 2001
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From: "Clay Cowgill" <vector_clay >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder?  (Auction Pointer)
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 18:26:55 -0700
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I think someone with deep pockets and space should be snagging this for the 
good of the order. ;-)

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1612128462

Pretty neat.  I wonder how easy it is to get the components for the tubes 
now?

There's more pictures here:

http://www.geocities.com/dynacomp/page10.html

A lot of this stuff kinda has the look of Dr. Frankenstein's lab and/or 
something out of the soviet union... But I guess it works!

-Clay

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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From owner-vectorlist   Sun Jul  1 22:00:52 2001
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Message-ID: <20010702014532.24647.qmail >
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 18:45:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robb Allen <darkrpa >
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder?  (Auction Pointer)
To: vectorlist 
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Yeah, i think someone should "take one for the team"
and buy this stuff. Don't know how it works, but would
look cool in the living room..

Robb Alllen

--- Clay Cowgill <vector_clay > wrote:
> I think someone with deep pockets and space should
> be snagging this for the 
> good of the order. ;-)
> 
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1612128462
> 
> Pretty neat.  I wonder how easy it is to get the
> components for the tubes 
> now?
> 
> There's more pictures here:
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/dynacomp/page10.html
> 
> A lot of this stuff kinda has the look of Dr.
> Frankenstein's lab and/or 
> something out of the soviet union... But I guess it
> works!
> 
> -Clay
> 
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com
> 
>
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From: "chumblespuzz" <chumblespuzz >
To: <vectorlist >
References: <F125n8fsXWriMyZtclx0001b1a3 >
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder?  (Auction Pointer)
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Will this get the spots out of my Tempest tube?

-roy-

----- Original Message -----
From: "Clay Cowgill" <vector_clay >
To: <vectorlist >
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 9:26 PM
Subject: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder? (Auction Pointer)


> I think someone with deep pockets and space should be snagging this for
the
> good of the order. ;-)
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1612128462
>
> Pretty neat.  I wonder how easy it is to get the components for the tubes
> now?
>
> There's more pictures here:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/dynacomp/page10.html
>
> A lot of this stuff kinda has the look of Dr. Frankenstein's lab and/or
> something out of the soviet union... But I guess it works!
>
> -Clay
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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There is a place that can rebuild probably almost any tube. I had him quote a
complete rebuild for a 19" amplifone tube ayt $89..

His site is www.hawkeyepicturetube.com

JB


chumblespuzz wrote:

> Will this get the spots out of my Tempest tube?
>
> -roy-
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Clay Cowgill" <vector_clay >
> To: <vectorlist >
> Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 9:26 PM
> Subject: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder? (Auction Pointer)
>
> > I think someone with deep pockets and space should be snagging this for
> the
> > good of the order. ;-)
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1612128462
> >
> > Pretty neat.  I wonder how easy it is to get the components for the tubes
> > now?
> >
> > There's more pictures here:
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/dynacomp/page10.html
> >
> > A lot of this stuff kinda has the look of Dr. Frankenstein's lab and/or
> > something out of the soviet union... But I guess it works!
> >
> > -Clay
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> > ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
&nbsp;
<p>There is a place that can rebuild probably almost any tube. I had him
quote a complete rebuild for a 19" amplifone tube ayt $89..
<p>His site is www.hawkeyepicturetube.com
<p>JB
<br>&nbsp;
<p>chumblespuzz wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Will this get the spots out of my Tempest tube?
<p>-roy-
<p>----- Original Message -----
<br>From: "Clay Cowgill" &lt;vector_clay >
<br>To: &lt;vectorlist >
<br>Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 9:26 PM
<br>Subject: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder? (Auction Pointer)
<p>> I think someone with deep pockets and space should be snagging this
for
<br>the
<br>> good of the order. ;-)
<br>>
<br>> <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1612128462">http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=1612128462</a>
<br>>
<br>> Pretty neat.&nbsp; I wonder how easy it is to get the components
for the tubes
<br>> now?
<br>>
<br>> There's more pictures here:
<br>>
<br>> <a href="http://www.geocities.com/dynacomp/page10.html">http://www.geocities.com/dynacomp/page10.html</a>
<br>>
<br>> A lot of this stuff kinda has the look of Dr. Frankenstein's lab
and/or
<br>> something out of the soviet union... But I guess it works!
<br>>
<br>> -Clay
<br>>
<br>> _________________________________________________________________
<br>> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a>
<br>>
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<br>> ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE"
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<br>> ** questions, comments, or problems to neil .
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From: solarfox 
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Game values
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 21:15:21 -0500
Message-ID: <tqkvjt8dps55c7bkolpuhnk8ln77ipmmr3 >
References: <007f01c10191$30b77660$aab1ff3e@hal9000> <B7637AB7.C2E4%aramos@ele-mental.org>
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On Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:46:47 -0700, you wrote:

>I think we're dealing with two different value curves: gameplay and rarity.

	I think you're right, and that's kind of what I was trying to get at in
my previous post.  (You summed it up better than I did, though. :) )  

	We should also bear in mind that the two curves operate at vastly
different rates.  IMO, "gameplay" is a sharp bell curve, driven by whoever
is currently entering the hobby in "buyer" mode - which means it will tend
to follow the 20-year "nostalgia" cycle we see in other areas such as
"classic rock" radio stations, fashion trends, and so on; "rarity",
however, is characterized more by a slow, upward slope which will lag quite
a bit behind the "gameplay" curve.

	It only makes sense, therefore, that we would see a rapid rise in the
value of early-80's vector (and raster!) games as those of us who are
children (or teenagers :) ) of the 80's chased after the games we wanted to
play again, followed by a decline in their market value after most of us
had acquired the games _we_ wanted and the newer, younger crop of
"customers" began seeking _their_ fondly-remembered "classics" from the
late 80's-early 90's.  The "gameplay" curve for TEMPEST, ASTEROIDS, etc.
has moved on, while the "rarity" curve has not yet become a significant
effect on the market for vector games as a whole (though I suspect it
already has, and will continue to have an effect, on the value of games
which were already relatively rare to begin with, like COSMIC CHASM or
QUANTUM.)

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http://lonestar.texas.net/~solarfox
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From: solarfox 
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Game values
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 21:15:19 -0500
Message-ID: <rajvjtk3500om3qq468b77mpr2ug1hhqcg >
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On Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:49:16 +0100, you wrote:

>Videos can only go up ever so slightly, then downhill from there. Think of
>how many machines are changing hands right now. Each one of those machines
>is 'saved' from being junked etc.. if a machine is in someone's living
>room/gamesroom now, how likely is it that it will get junked? not likely at
>all so long as the percieved value is 'oooh, that's asteroids, that worth
>loads, i can't possibly junk that.'
>
>so now sit back and think just how many machines are surviving... a butt
>load.

	What you are overlooking, however, is the fact that as it becomes
increasingly difficult or impossible to get **replacement parts** for these
machines, the supply of "working" machines _must_ inevitably decrease,
therefore increasing the value of the ones which remain.  You can already
see this dynamic beginning to work on the old RCA Selectavision
CED-Videodisc players - five years ago, you couldn't give one of these
things away; today, even a non-working unit can fetch $50 in some circles
because certain parts, such as the pickup styli and the DAXI chip, simply
aren't made anymore and there are no equivalent substitutes.

	What will most likely happen, I suspect, is that the value of our
vector games _will_ begin to increase again - but, unlike the "boom market"
that's existed in the last few years while everyone's been trying to fill
out their collections, it will be a slow increase over the long term as the
games become more _historically_ valuable, and increasingly difficult to
find in "Near-Mint" condition. 

>Nothing can keep going up and up in value. 'collecting' stuff is a
>relatively new concept, 80's onwards.. nearly everyone you speak to nowadays
>collects something or other...
>
>but speak to someone in the 60's/70's, how many people do you think
>collected stuff? not many at all..

	Er.... huh?  Sorry, but you're just plain wrong here.  The _kinds_ of
things people collect may have changed, but there were plenty of people
collecting things back in the 60's and 70's, and probably a lot earlier
than that.  Stamps and coins being two of the most obvious examples...

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http://lonestar.texas.net/~solarfox
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Do you know where I can parts parts for my RCA selectavision???

Thanks,
Joe

solarfox  wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:49:16 +0100, you wrote:
>
> >Videos can only go up ever so slightly, then downhill from there. Think of
> >how many machines are changing hands right now. Each one of those machines
> >is 'saved' from being junked etc.. if a machine is in someone's living
> >room/gamesroom now, how likely is it that it will get junked? not likely at
> >all so long as the percieved value is 'oooh, that's asteroids, that worth
> >loads, i can't possibly junk that.'
> >
> >so now sit back and think just how many machines are surviving... a butt
> >load.
>
>         What you are overlooking, however, is the fact that as it becomes
> increasingly difficult or impossible to get **replacement parts** for these
> machines, the supply of "working" machines _must_ inevitably decrease,
> therefore increasing the value of the ones which remain.  You can already
> see this dynamic beginning to work on the old RCA Selectavision
> CED-Videodisc players - five years ago, you couldn't give one of these
> things away; today, even a non-working unit can fetch $50 in some circles
> because certain parts, such as the pickup styli and the DAXI chip, simply
> aren't made anymore and there are no equivalent substitutes.
>
>         What will most likely happen, I suspect, is that the value of our
> vector games _will_ begin to increase again - but, unlike the "boom market"
> that's existed in the last few years while everyone's been trying to fill
> out their collections, it will be a slow increase over the long term as the
> games become more _historically_ valuable, and increasingly difficult to
> find in "Near-Mint" condition.
>
> >Nothing can keep going up and up in value. 'collecting' stuff is a
> >relatively new concept, 80's onwards.. nearly everyone you speak to nowadays
> >collects something or other...
> >
> >but speak to someone in the 60's/70's, how many people do you think
> >collected stuff? not many at all..
>
>         Er.... huh?  Sorry, but you're just plain wrong here.  The _kinds_ of
> things people collect may have changed, but there were plenty of people
> collecting things back in the 60's and 70's, and probably a lot earlier
> than that.  Stamps and coins being two of the most obvious examples...
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "There is no virtue in suffering fools gladly, for it only encourages them to
> persist in their foolishness."                                --Kehlog Albran
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> solarfox                               (Gary Akins jr.)
> http://lonestar.texas.net/~solarfox
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: MKDUD 
Message-ID: <4b.da2933b.28715939 >
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 00:57:29 EDT
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Game values
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In a message dated 7/1/2001 10:12:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
solarfox  writes:
<<which means it will tend to follow the 20-year "nostalgia" cycle we see in 
other areas >>
<< The "gameplay" curve for TEMPEST, ASTEROIDS, etc.
 has moved on, >>

     I don't know. I have a Deluxe CT that I also plays regular Asteroids. I 
sincerely like playing Asteroids (and Deluxe) as much now as I ever did. 
Granted, I've got the "hot" roms installed in my Asteroids board that don't 
allow much "lurking", but you can "cruise" a little bit to hunt. This has 
kept the game challenging enough that I never loose interest. I might stop 
playing it for a week or so, but when I come back and play again, I like it 
as much as when I first put a quarter in one for the first time over 20 years 
ago when I was 13-14.
     Even younger kids (your modern console freaks) who visit my house are  
that never played the real Asteroids before get totally hooked. I mean 
ADDICTED.    
     Remeber back when you wouldn't leave the arcade until you were looking 
on the floor for quarters?? Remember when you were hearing the sounds of the 
saucers, even when you weren't playing the game? 
     I don't think this kind of  long term staying power isn't so much a 
factor of nostalgia, but more a factor of pure QUALITY. I think the same can 
be said for alot of our Vector games that we still love today.    
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Message-ID: <b8.17cd3e9a.28715ba2 >
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 01:07:46 EDT
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Snap,crackle, hopefully not pop
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In a message dated 7/1/2001 7:13:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
andy  writes:

<< This may sound naive, but anyone tell me if it's the tube that is
 crapped if I hear the arcing?  I mean the neck board, monitor board etc are
 OK (ie. no burnt fuses, components that I can see).  Monitor start looking
 wavy as if the sync was off and then progressively got worse.   >>

     Look VERY closely at the picture tube, ESPECIALLY around the neck and 
near the heater. I had a tube in a Quantum that had a very slight crack in 
the neck (it was really hard to see until you really looked for it) and the 
tube gave the same symptoms you listed. It almost sounded like water boiling 
in a garbage can. I've seen this a few other times over the years, and my 
theory is that someone may have turned the machine on when the tube was very 
cold. The heater caused a hairline crack in the neck, and you then get the 
"boiling" sound, and usually no picture.
     However, you mention that you are seeing a sync problem. This would not 
be caused by the tube IMHO; you might want to also check your horizontal 
width coil as well as the horizontal pot(s) and their curcuits for the 
problem. 
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From: Thomas43 
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Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 02:44:39 EDT
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Two pictures
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In a message dated 7/1/01 7:39:54 AM, mypearl@dds.nl writes:

<< Is that 'PenTrans' xformer used in the amplifone XY monitor? If zo, is it a

very common xfromer compared to the well-known 'red one', and do they still

work ?


Mendel

 >>

These are the Pentrans units for the Amplifone monitors.  I got these from an 
ex-Atari service tech. They should all be working.

Scott
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Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 02:08:57 -0500
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There is one REAL big problem here.  Regunning a tube does nothing about
phosphor burn-in and none of that equipment can fix that.

Can't help but notice that his profit estimates don't mention electricity
costs.  Wouldn't think those 5 KW ovens would run for free (and they also need
natural gas for heating the tubes).


Clay Cowgill wrote:

> I think someone with deep pockets and space should be snagging this for the
> good of the order. ;-)
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1612128462
>
> Pretty neat.  I wonder how easy it is to get the components for the tubes
> now?
>
> There's more pictures here:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/dynacomp/page10.html
>
> A lot of this stuff kinda has the look of Dr. Frankenstein's lab and/or
> something out of the soviet union... But I guess it works!
>
> -Clay
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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<html>
There is one REAL big problem here.&nbsp; Regunning a tube does nothing
about phosphor burn-in and none of that equipment can fix that.
<p>Can't help but notice that his profit estimates don't mention electricity
costs.&nbsp; Wouldn't think those 5 KW ovens would run for free (and they
also need natural gas for heating the tubes).
<br>&nbsp;
<p>Clay Cowgill wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>I think someone with deep pockets and space should
be snagging this for the
<br>good of the order. ;-)
<p><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1612128462">http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=1612128462</a>
<p>Pretty neat.&nbsp; I wonder how easy it is to get the components for
the tubes
<br>now?
<p>There's more pictures here:
<p><a href="http://www.geocities.com/dynacomp/page10.html">http://www.geocities.com/dynacomp/page10.html</a>
<p>A lot of this stuff kinda has the look of Dr. Frankenstein's lab and/or
<br>something out of the soviet union... But I guess it works!
<p>-Clay
<p>_________________________________________________________________
<br>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a>
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From owner-vectorlist   Mon Jul  2 04:13:41 2001
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Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 00:51:50 -0700
From: Matt Rossiter <rossiter@ni.net>
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Simple Question about Armor Attack
To: vectorlist 
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I probably *am* getting slower - or maybe just better at Armor Attack.  The roms
checked out the same as the ones from mame - although mame has different
variations.  I'm glad I checked them out though because one of the pins was
completely bent in.  I don't even know how this thing worked.


Matt

Zonn wrote:

> On Sun, 01 Jul 2001 14:25:42 -0700, Matt Rossiter <rossiter@ni.net> wrote:
>
> >I know that at one time Cinematronics updated Star Castle to make it a
> >little more challenging to the player.
> >
> >Did they do the same thing with Armor Attack?  I've owned two armor
> >attacks and my most recent one seems to get harder to play faster.  Was
> >there a modification in the roms?  I think I prefer the slower paced
> >one.
>
> Uh uh, and how long ago was that?  Maybe you're just getting slower.  ;^)
>
> Seriously, can you get a copy of the ROMs.  Other than a prototype rom set where
> the morse code was altered, I haven't heard of a different speed.
>
> Of course it could be that the known ROMs are all the faster ones. Ideally a
> copy of your previous machine's ROMs would be the ones to compare with.
>
> -Zonn
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From owner-vectorlist   Mon Jul  2 05:11:30 2001
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From: "Andy Welburn" <warlords >
To: <vectorlist >
References: <B761A65C.C14B%aramos >
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Game values
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:00:27 +0100
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> >Videos can only go up ever so slightly, then downhill from there. Think
of
> >how many machines are changing hands right now. Each one of those
machines
> >is 'saved' from being junked etc.. if a machine is in someone's living
> >room/gamesroom now, how likely is it that it will get junked? not likely
at
> >all so long as the percieved value is 'oooh, that's asteroids, that worth
> >loads, i can't possibly junk that.'
> >
> >so now sit back and think just how many machines are surviving... a butt
> >load.
>
> What you are overlooking, however, is the fact that as it becomes
> increasingly difficult or impossible to get **replacement parts** for
these
> machines, the supply of "working" machines _must_ inevitably decrease,
> therefore increasing the value of the ones which remain.

I have to disgagree, there always seems to be rakes of parts kicking around.
And hell, if a machine is just being a pain to fix, and the parts value
outweighs the machine value, then don't you think the machine will get
scrapped? :)

you're still not throwing into the equation the desirability factor. whcih i
think will decrease slightly, purely down to number of people wanting it, it
outweighs itself and the value remains constant or drops slightly..

but hell, to sit and calculate values for these old games is getting far too
complicated and boring :) heh

> You can already
> see this dynamic beginning to work on the old RCA Selectavision
> CED-Videodisc players - five years ago, you couldn't give one of these
> things away; today, even a non-working unit can fetch $50 in some circles
> because certain parts, such as the pickup styli and the DAXI chip, simply
> aren't made anymore and there are no equivalent substitutes.

The problem is, you're talking about somethign that even when you couldn't
give them away, nobody wanted :) Its not like loads of people bought them up
in anticipation is it? (i had a PAL hitachi CED player here and a stack of
films, now try find a PAL CED player hehe)

> What will most likely happen, I suspect, is that the value of our
> vector games _will_ begin to increase again - but, unlike the "boom
market"
> that's existed in the last few years while everyone's been trying to fill
> out their collections, it will be a slow increase over the long term as
the
> games become more _historically_ valuable, and increasingly difficult to
> find in "Near-Mint" condition.

ok, vector games i do agree do vary from raster games on a whole, and i
think it could be classed as a different market altogether that moves
independantly of raster stuff.

> >Nothing can keep going up and up in value. 'collecting' stuff is a
> >relatively new concept, 80's onwards.. nearly everyone you speak to
nowadays
> >collects something or other...
> >
> >but speak to someone in the 60's/70's, how many people do you think
> >collected stuff? not many at all..
>
> Er.... huh?  Sorry, but you're just plain wrong here.  The _kinds_ of
> things people collect may have changed, but there were plenty of people
> collecting things back in the 60's and 70's, and probably a lot earlier
> than that.  Stamps and coins being two of the most obvious examples...

ok, point taken. It is true though that it wasn't all that *common* (as it
is now) for people to collect stuff, if they did, then it was usually
something boring, like you say, stamps or coins or whatever, but i still
think the number of people that were collecting 'stuff' in the 60's 70's is
dwarfed by the *number* of people who collect stuff today.. And yes, today,
variety is a greater part of it. :)

> solarfox                               (Gary Akins
jr.)
> http://lonestar.texas.net/~solarfox

Andy Welburn

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From owner-vectorlist   Mon Jul  2 09:44:02 2001
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Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 08:27:02 -0500
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From: Matthew Sell <msell >
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Red baron side art?
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About a year ago or so there was an auction on EBay for the sideart and a 
few other Red Baron items.

It went for over a hundred.


         - Matt



At 06:26 PM 6/30/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>Since Red Baron was usually set up in Battlezone cabinets, there must have
>been a lot of Red Baron side art made, right? So where is it all now? I
>don't think I've ever seen any for sale. Does anybody have a set to sell or
>trade?
>Thanks,
>Lewis
>
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"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler

Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...

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From owner-vectorlist   Mon Jul  2 10:11:45 2001
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From: "Evrovski, Andrew" <andy >
To: "'vectorlist >
Subject: RE: VECTOR: Snap,crackle, hopefully not pop
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:52:29 -0300 
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Hi there,

	Thanks for the info.  The sync problem happened before the snap,
crackle, so I would think you are right.. unrelated to the snap/crackle.  As
for how it sounds, you hit it right on the head.  That is pretty much
exactly how it sounds.  So I will start looking to see if there is any neck
problems.  Someone else suggested it might be a cap, so I will also apply a
cap kit as well to see if that is the issue.

Thanks
Andy

-----Original Message-----
From: MKDUD ]
Sent: July 2, 2001 02:08
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Snap,crackle, hopefully not pop


In a message dated 7/1/2001 7:13:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
andy  writes:

<< This may sound naive, but anyone tell me if it's the tube that is
 crapped if I hear the arcing?  I mean the neck board, monitor board etc are
 OK (ie. no burnt fuses, components that I can see).  Monitor start looking
 wavy as if the sync was off and then progressively got worse.   >>

     Look VERY closely at the picture tube, ESPECIALLY around the neck and 
near the heater. I had a tube in a Quantum that had a very slight crack in 
the neck (it was really hard to see until you really looked for it) and the 
tube gave the same symptoms you listed. It almost sounded like water boiling

in a garbage can. I've seen this a few other times over the years, and my 
theory is that someone may have turned the machine on when the tube was very

cold. The heater caused a hairline crack in the neck, and you then get the 
"boiling" sound, and usually no picture.
     However, you mention that you are seeing a sync problem. This would not

be caused by the tube IMHO; you might want to also check your horizontal 
width coil as well as the horizontal pot(s) and their curcuits for the 
problem. 
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From owner-vectorlist   Mon Jul  2 13:07:27 2001
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Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:48:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Christopher X. Candreva" <chris >
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Subject: Re: VECTOR: Two pictures
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On Sun, 1 Jul 2001 Thomas43  wrote:

> www.safestuff.com/quadpokeys.jpg

Wow -- I've never seen a 'real' quad POKEY chip, but that looks like four
surface-mount devices on a little PC board ?

-Chris

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris  -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/

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From owner-vectorlist   Mon Jul  2 13:37:21 2001
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> Wow -- I've never seen a 'real' quad POKEY chip, but that looks like four
> surface-mount devices on a little PC board ?

It is more like they have glued the pokey substrate (the silicon chip
itself) down to the PCB, connected the wiring, and all that was covered in
epoxy glue again.

Mendel

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From: "peter jones" <highwayman2000@mail.ru>
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re[2]: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder?  (Auction Pointer)
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-----Original Message-----
From: "chumblespuzz" <chumblespuzz >
To: <vectorlist >
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 21:47:07 -0400
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder?  (Auction Pointer)

> 
> Will this get the spots out of my Tempest tube?
> 
NO!

tube re-building is a bit mis-leading, it should be refered to as 'tube re-gunning'

the proccess is simple (sort-of) you remove the old guns by cutting the end of the neck off,
then you weld on a new gun assembly inside a vacume chamber.

the proccess only works on tubes that are intact, it wont work if you have a vacume leak.
(the phosphorous falls away from the tube face)

NOTHING can save a burned tube! :(

(you could exchange it for a new one, the old tube has glass value (lead-glass is valuable))


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From owner-vectorlist   Mon Jul  2 14:07:09 2001
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From: "Adin Petisca" <apetisca@earthlink.net>
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Subject: VECTOR: Asteroids Deluxe spots
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:42:53 -0400
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In the middle of my Asteroids Deluxe screen there is a bright dot. Also, in
the middle of the asteroids and the ship. What causes this and how can I get
rid of it?

thanks!

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From: Jenison Mark-QA3578 <Mark.Jenison >
To: "'vectorlist >
Subject: Covering burn in (was RE: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder?)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:51:48 -0500 
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> NOTHING can save a burned tube! :(

I don't know if it was a standard thing, but on a few G08's that I've come
across, they've had a tinted plastic overlay which was form fitted to the
front of the picture tube.  The tint masked phospher burn, and gave the
vectors a more aesthetically pleasing look.

I have a few monitors with burn in, and was considering doing something like
this.  I don't want to just cover it with a tinted overlay (via battlezone,
etc), but something a little more form fitted.  Someone suggested car window
tint, but I've never tried this.

If anyone has tried something similar, or would consider manufacturing
these, I think there'd be a decent market for them (considering you could
use them on raster monitors, too).

-- 
Mark Jenison
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From owner-vectorlist   Mon Jul  2 14:30:04 2001
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From: jeff hendrix <jhendrix >
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Subject: RE: VECTOR: Asteroids Deluxe spots
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:54:41 -0600 
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turn down your brightness, either that or your blanking circuitry needs
repair.

-----Original Message-----
From: Adin Petisca [mailto:apetisca@earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 11:43 AM
To: vectorlist 
Subject: VECTOR: Asteroids Deluxe spots


In the middle of my Asteroids Deluxe screen there is a bright dot. Also, in
the middle of the asteroids and the ship. What causes this and how can I get
rid of it?

thanks!

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From owner-vectorlist   Mon Jul  2 14:36:49 2001
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You're seeing the center of the retrace lines.  Turn down the 
brightness.  if you play it this way for any length of time, it will 
burn the phosphors in the center of the monitor (if it hasn't already).

If you can't make it go away without making the vectors too dim, then 
you probably need a cap kit.

    -- Mitch

On Monday, July 2, 2001, at 10:42 AM, Adin Petisca wrote:

> In the middle of my Asteroids Deluxe screen there is a bright dot. 
> Also, in
> the middle of the asteroids and the ship. What causes this and how can 
> I get
> rid of it?
>
> thanks!
>
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From owner-vectorlist   Mon Jul  2 14:49:30 2001
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Message-ID: <3B40BD2B.818EC1F3 >
Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 13:27:55 -0500
From: tom mcclintock <tomm >
Organization: MG Capital
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Subject: Re: Covering burn in (was RE: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder?)
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I suspect if you can find someone that can manufacture an overlay with
the appropriate 'bow' so it will lay flat on the front of a tube, you
could probably get a few people interested in reproducing some
Cinematronics overlays. I know I need one for Solar Quest!


tom


Jenison Mark-QA3578 wrote:
> 
> > NOTHING can save a burned tube! :(
> 
> I don't know if it was a standard thing, but on a few G08's that I've come
> across, they've had a tinted plastic overlay which was form fitted to the
> front of the picture tube.  The tint masked phospher burn, and gave the
> vectors a more aesthetically pleasing look.
> 
> I have a few monitors with burn in, and was considering doing something like
> this.  I don't want to just cover it with a tinted overlay (via battlezone,
> etc), but something a little more form fitted.  Someone suggested car window
> tint, but I've never tried this.
> 
> If anyone has tried something similar, or would consider manufacturing
> these, I think there'd be a decent market for them (considering you could
> use them on raster monitors, too).
> 
> --
> Mark Jenison
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From owner-vectorlist   Mon Jul  2 15:36:40 2001
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Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 15:18:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Christopher X. Candreva" <chris >
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To: <vectorlist >
Subject: Re: Covering burn in (was RE: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder?)
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On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Jenison Mark-QA3578 wrote:

> I don't know if it was a standard thing, but on a few G08's that I've come
> across, they've had a tinted plastic overlay which was form fitted to the
> front of the picture tube.  The tint masked phospher burn, and gave the
> vectors a more aesthetically pleasing look.

G08's weren't normally tinted.  I needed to replace the front glass
(plastic) on my Star Trek (asteroids conversion). Since the Asteroids cab
was set up for the big old glass Atari used, I used two pieces of plexi. A
tinted underneath, then the cardboard bezel, then a clear piece. Looks
great.

I actually have a decent screen-shot online:
http://www.westnet.com/~chris/arcade/MyBasement/StarTrek.jpg
http://www.westnet.com/~chris/arcade/MyBasement/StarTrek2.jpg

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris  -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/


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From owner-vectorlist   Mon Jul  2 15:51:27 2001
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From: "Bret Pehrson" <bret >
To: <vectorlist >
Subject: RE: Covering burn in (was RE: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder?)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:33:58 -0700
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Certain types of commercial window tinting film are designed to be formed to
the shape of the window by first applying it to the outside of the window
and heating w/ a heat gun.  The formed piece is then removed and applied to
the inside of the window, resulting in a custom formed fit.

You would have to check color availability.

Another benefit of applied films is that it probably would get rid of
apparent scratches on the CRT face.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-vectorlist 
> [mailto:owner-vectorlist ]On Behalf Of tom mcclintock
> Sent: Monday, July 2, 2001 11:28 AM
> To: vectorlist 
> Subject: Re: Covering burn in (was RE: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder?)
>
>
> I suspect if you can find someone that can manufacture an overlay with
> the appropriate 'bow' so it will lay flat on the front of a tube, you
> could probably get a few people interested in reproducing some
> Cinematronics overlays. I know I need one for Solar Quest!
>
>
> tom
>
>
> Jenison Mark-QA3578 wrote:
> >
> > > NOTHING can save a burned tube! :(
> >
> > I don't know if it was a standard thing, but on a few G08's
> that I've come
> > across, they've had a tinted plastic overlay which was form
> fitted to the
> > front of the picture tube.  The tint masked phospher burn, and gave the
> > vectors a more aesthetically pleasing look.
> >
> > I have a few monitors with burn in, and was considering doing
> something like
> > this.  I don't want to just cover it with a tinted overlay (via
> battlezone,
> > etc), but something a little more form fitted.  Someone
> suggested car window
> > tint, but I've never tried this.
> >
> > If anyone has tried something similar, or would consider manufacturing
> > these, I think there'd be a decent market for them (considering
> you could
> > use them on raster monitors, too).
> >
> > --
> > Mark Jenison
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
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From owner-vectorlist   Mon Jul  2 20:22:08 2001
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From: "Frank Palazzolo" <palazzol >
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Subject: VECTOR: Discrete sound circuits
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Hi all,

I've been playing around with the subsystem of MAME responsible for 
simulating/emulating discrete sound circuits.  As a start, I'm playing with a 
couple Asteroids boardsets, schematics, SPICE, and the simulation code.  
I'm hoping to get to the circuits in the Sega vector and Cine games as well.

Basically, I'm giving vectorlist a heads-up - because I'm planning to generate 
a lot of documentation about the functions of the sound circuits along the 
way.  This info could be useful for debugging boards or designing 
replacement boards/parts.  

Actually, if a DSP-based cards for the G-80 or cine stuff ever get designed, I 
think some of the digital filtering stuff I'm playing with could be used directly.

Also, if there are certian games that someone really needs understood, 
maybe I can change the order of which games I look at first...

Thanks,
-Frank



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From owner-vectorlist   Mon Jul  2 21:46:15 2001
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From: "Clay Cowgill" <vector_clay >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: Covering burn in (was RE: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder?)
Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 18:27:42 -0700
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>I don't know if it was a standard thing, but on a few G08's that I've come
>across, they've had a tinted plastic overlay which was form fitted to the
>front of the picture tube.  The tint masked phospher burn, and gave the
>vectors a more aesthetically pleasing look.

Hmmmm.  Sounds like a job for home grown vacuum-forming equipment to me!  
Might not take much-- take a mould of the front face of a 19" tube, cast 
some plaster, groove some air-channels, and hook up a decent show-vac...   
Then find a plastic (thin plexi?) with the tint you want, heat it in an over 
so it's pliable, plop it on the jig and hit the vacuum.  I don't think you'd 
need much suction since the shape is really simple (and the plastic's thin).

Alternatively you might be able to use the glass face from an old tube and 
heat it up such that it could be pressed *into* a taunt sheet of the plastic 
(if it was thin enough) accomplishing the same thing.

Or, maybe better yet-- hold the plastic in a jig, and heat up the plastic 
with an industrial shrink-wrap gun (or some tubes/diffuser hooked up to 
one).  Then have a (cold and dead) monitor tube that you press into the 
plastic to form it.  Added benefit is that the cold tube would chill the 
plastic and make it easier to remove that way to boot.

Be fun to try...

-Clay
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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From owner-vectorlist   Tue Jul  3 03:21:33 2001
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Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 23:32:52 -0700
To: vectorlist 
From: John Robertson <jrr >
Subject: Re: Covering burn in (was RE: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder?)
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Theatre supply houses have a great variety of "Gels", these are thin 
plastic films of virtually any colour and tint of grey imaginable. I would 
expect one could find a tint.colour that would give the desired effect. 
Somewhere I have a colour swatch stack of about thirty common tints and 
colours, you can ask for them. Similar in idea to paint swatches of 
multiple colour tints one can get at the larger paint shops.

The gels are very thin that you can easily lay them on a screen, and in 
fact were used on early video game monitors when they were all black & 
white to get "Colour" for the characters (Space Invaders, Star Castle and 
others).

John :-#)#

At 06:27 PM 02/07/2001, you wrote:
>>I don't know if it was a standard thing, but on a few G08's that I've come
>>across, they've had a tinted plastic overlay which was form fitted to the
>>front of the picture tube.  The tint masked phospher burn, and gave the
>>vectors a more aesthetically pleasing look.
>
>Hmmmm.  Sounds like a job for home grown vacuum-forming equipment to me!
>Might not take much-- take a mould of the front face of a 19" tube, cast 
>some plaster, groove some air-channels, and hook up a decent show-vac...
>Then find a plastic (thin plexi?) with the tint you want, heat it in an 
>over so it's pliable, plop it on the jig and hit the vacuum.  I don't 
>think you'd need much suction since the shape is really simple (and the 
>plastic's thin).
>
>Alternatively you might be able to use the glass face from an old tube and 
>heat it up such that it could be pressed *into* a taunt sheet of the 
>plastic (if it was thin enough) accomplishing the same thing.
>
>Or, maybe better yet-- hold the plastic in a jig, and heat up the plastic 
>with an industrial shrink-wrap gun (or some tubes/diffuser hooked up to 
>one).  Then have a (cold and dead) monitor tube that you press into the 
>plastic to form it.  Added benefit is that the cold tube would chill the 
>plastic and make it easier to remove that way to boot.
>
>Be fun to try...
>
>-Clay
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
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From owner-vectorlist   Tue Jul  3 03:50:37 2001
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Message-ID: <3B417541.79C7104D@cedar-rapids.net>
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 02:33:21 -0500
From: Rodger Boots <rlboots@cedar-rapids.net>
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Oh please assure me nobody is going to aim a heat gun at the face of a picture
tube that still has a vacuum in it.

Remember, a CRT is a bomb.  As long as you don't set it off it's safe enough.  I
always cringe a little at trade shows around the booth that has a motorized
mallet repeatedly striking the front of an operating monitor.  I realize they
are trying to prove something about how their touch panel overlay can take
abuse, but it's still an incredibly bad idea.


Bret Pehrson wrote:

> Certain types of commercial window tinting film are designed to be formed to
> the shape of the window by first applying it to the outside of the window
> and heating w/ a heat gun.  The formed piece is then removed and applied to
> the inside of the window, resulting in a custom formed fit.
>
> You would have to check color availability.
>
> Another benefit of applied films is that it probably would get rid of
> apparent scratches on the CRT face.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-vectorlist 
> > [mailto:owner-vectorlist ]On Behalf Of tom mcclintock
> > Sent: Monday, July 2, 2001 11:28 AM
> > To: vectorlist 
> > Subject: Re: Covering burn in (was RE: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder?)
> >
> >
> > I suspect if you can find someone that can manufacture an overlay with
> > the appropriate 'bow' so it will lay flat on the front of a tube, you
> > could probably get a few people interested in reproducing some
> > Cinematronics overlays. I know I need one for Solar Quest!
> >
> >
> > tom
> >
> >
> > Jenison Mark-QA3578 wrote:
> > >
> > > > NOTHING can save a burned tube! :(
> > >
> > > I don't know if it was a standard thing, but on a few G08's
> > that I've come
> > > across, they've had a tinted plastic overlay which was form
> > fitted to the
> > > front of the picture tube.  The tint masked phospher burn, and gave the
> > > vectors a more aesthetically pleasing look.
> > >
> > > I have a few monitors with burn in, and was considering doing
> > something like
> > > this.  I don't want to just cover it with a tinted overlay (via
> > battlezone,
> > > etc), but something a little more form fitted.  Someone
> > suggested car window
> > > tint, but I've never tried this.
> > >
> > > If anyone has tried something similar, or would consider manufacturing
> > > these, I think there'd be a decent market for them (considering
> > you could
> > > use them on raster monitors, too).
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mark Jenison
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
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From owner-vectorlist   Tue Jul  3 11:46:56 2001
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Message-ID: <003301c103d4$6d06d940$970a0a0a@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
From: "Dan" <dansmsn >
To: <vectorlist >
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010702232816.02a65c20 >
Subject: VECTOR: One of those days...
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:25:43 -0700
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Its nearly time for our annual 4th of July party and one of the grueling
tasks I get to undertake is the clearning of the gameroom so the carpet
cleaners can come in and do a thourough job.  Of course I was in a rush and
decided to move my Ast. Deluxe cocktail by myself, the end result was a
shattered tabletop and a rather annoyed me.

Anyone have an Asteroids Deluxe cocktail glass they'd be willing to sell me?

-Dan

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From owner-vectorlist   Tue Jul  3 13:57:52 2001
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Message-ID: <20010703173647.10478.qmail >
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 10:36:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: jerry madsen <jetskimod >
Subject: VECTOR: space duel cocktail CPO
To: vectorlist 
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Hello,
     Does any one know where I can get a hold of a
pair of control panel overlays for my space duel
cocktail game.I have never seen any on ebay or any
where else.
                      Jerry. 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
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From owner-vectorlist   Tue Jul  3 15:51:05 2001
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From: "Clay Cowgill" <vector_clay >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: Covering burn in (was RE: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder?)
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 12:29:11 -0700
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>Oh please assure me nobody is going to aim a heat gun at the face of a 
>picture
>tube that still has a vacuum in it.

Notice how I said "the glass face from an old tube" and not the whole tube. 
(The thought had occurred to me too. ;-)

>Remember, a CRT is a bomb.  As long as you don't set it off it's safe 
>enough.  I
>always cringe a little at trade shows around the booth that has a motorized
>mallet repeatedly striking the front of an operating monitor.  I realize 
>they
>are trying to prove something about how their touch panel overlay can take
>abuse, but it's still an incredibly bad idea.

You know, we always hear this, but I can't really decide how much is just 
hype and FUD.  The word "bomb" tends to conjure up firey explosions and the 
thought of losing limbs when it goes off.  (Actually, the dictionary 
definition hinges on "explosion" and not an implosion like a CRT.)  Every 
CRT I've cracked, shot, and generally broken hasn't done much more than spit 
some broken glass a few feet in a most anti-climactic manner.  I've dropped 
glasses in the kitchen with more spectacular results!

Anyone here *tried* to break the front face of an old 19" monitor with a 
hammer?  (I have. ;-)  They're remarkably tough.  Newer ones probably use 
thinner glass (and flatter faces) and are more damage prone though.  (An old 
Sony 19" TV I had actually took about 5 .22 rimfire slugs from ~15 feet 
before finally puncturing with a wimpy "ssssssssss" noise.)  Knocking the 
end of a tube with a hammer makes an interesting "foomp", and I wouldn't 
want to be holding it when it did, but I don't find it too menacing.  I 
think the real risk is *dropping* a tube so that it shatters on impact.  
That could be pretty dangerous from the flying glass perspective (but then, 
so would be dropping a plate-glass window, or a big glass vase).

Anyway, just my $0.02.

-Clay
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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From owner-vectorlist   Tue Jul  3 16:48:40 2001
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From: Jenison Mark-QA3578 <Mark.Jenison >
To: "'vectorlist >
Subject: RE: Covering burn in (was RE: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder?)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:21:52 -0500 
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> You know, we always hear this, but I can't really decide how 
> much is just 
> hype and FUD.  The word "bomb" tends to conjure up firey 
> explosions and the 
> thought of losing limbs when it goes off.  (Actually, the dictionary 
> definition hinges on "explosion" and not an implosion like a 
> CRT.)  Every 
> CRT I've cracked, shot, and generally broken hasn't done much 
> more than spit 
> some broken glass a few feet in a most anti-climactic manner. 
>  I've dropped 
> glasses in the kitchen with more spectacular results!
> 
> Anyone here *tried* to break the front face of an old 19" 
> monitor with a 
> hammer?  (I have. ;-) 

This comment brought back flashbacks of when I was seven up in my Uncles barn.  He had about 7 TVs and my cousins and I took some hammers and smashed all their tubes in.  None of them really did anything "menacing" or remotely scary.  I can still remember to this day hearing my Uncle yell "You kids better not be messing with those TVs!  I'm gonna fix those someday!"

-- 
Mark Jenison
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From owner-vectorlist   Tue Jul  3 16:56:19 2001
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Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:40:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Neil Bradley <neil >
To: "'vectorlist >
Subject: RE: Covering burn in (was RE: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder?)
In-Reply-To: <A5B4C9A2AD89D411AB3E009027B0DA1E20F2D7 >
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> > CRT I've cracked, shot, and generally broken hasn't done much > more
> than spit > some broken glass a few feet in a most anti-climactic
> manner.  > I've dropped > glasses in the kitchen with more spectacular
> results! > > Anyone here *tried* to break the front face of an old 19"  
> > monitor with a > hammer?  (I have. ;-)

> This comment brought back flashbacks of when I was seven up in my
> Uncles barn.  He had about 7 TVs and my cousins and I took some
> hammers and smashed all their tubes in.  None of them really did
> anything "menacing" or remotely scary.  I can still remember to this
> day hearing my Uncle yell "You kids better not be messing with those
> TVs!  I'm gonna fix those someday!"

I threw a rock at an old 25" TV Console and it blew out the back of the TV
- ripped the wood off the back and demolished everything inside. Glass
everywhere.

But what's odd - when I upgraded my Asteroids picture tube, I was carrying
the old picture tube out to the curb for recycling and it slpped out of my
hands and hit the ground. I turned around to avoid being nailed by a huge
explosion and it didn't do much of anything. I'm not even sure I could
tell the difference between a bunch of glass breaking and this
implosion. I didn't even get hit..

-->Neil

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neil Bradley            Duffman   : "Duff beer is made from fresh mountain...."
Synthcom Systems, Inc.  Contestant: "Goat!"
ICQ #29402898	        Homer     : "MMmmm... you can really taste the goat.."

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From owner-vectorlist   Tue Jul  3 16:59:46 2001
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Message-ID: <3B4255B3.38B36943 >
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 16:30:59 -0700
From: Daniel Piraino <dpiraino >
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I have gotten my HV board working, Pretty happy with myself only took me a
week. Now I need help with the deflection board. I have not been able to find a
FAQ on the deflection yet. I know there is one coming but I guess its not done.
Mike Kelleys HV FAQ helped alot. Thanks Mike. So here is what is going on.
First of all I only have the top half of the screen showing. The bottom half is
blind. The color is of weak green. No other colors present. The star pattern
and other objects on the screen have lines running between them like connect
the dots.
  Also aside from the monitor I have a sound problem. The sound has alot of
static and sounds distorted at times. I believe that Im getting sound out of
one speaker instead of two. I swapped the speakers, with good ones,to see if
that was the problem ,but it wasnt. Could it be a bad audio amplifier IC on the
sound board?
Thanks,
Dan Piraino

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From owner-vectorlist   Tue Jul  3 17:05:14 2001
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Message-ID: <002901c10400$4b666f40$3c03f018@charter.net>
From: "Matthew Murray" <mm0928@charter.net>
To: <vectorlist >
Subject: VECTOR: Monitor ?'s
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:39:44 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C103D6.622BB200
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Hello, I have an Atari Asteroids.  I am trying to identify the monitor.  =
Your help is appreciated.
Here is some info from one sticker on the housing:
19VARP4
M50-102W
Here is some info from another sticker:
L345
WG950160
Thank you!
 Matt


------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C103D6.622BB200
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello, I have an Atari Asteroids.&nbsp; =
I am trying=20
to identify the monitor.&nbsp; Your help is appreciated.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Here is some info from one sticker on =
the=20
housing:<BR>19VARP4<BR>M50-102W<BR>Here is some info from another=20
sticker:<BR>L345<BR>WG950160<BR>Thank=20
you!<BR>&nbsp;Matt<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C103D6.622BB200--

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From owner-vectorlist   Tue Jul  3 17:06:44 2001
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Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 13:35:44 -0700
To: vectorlist 
From: John Robertson <jrr >
Subject: Re: Covering burn in (was RE: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder?)
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Many years ago our Canadian Standards Association used to have a booth at 
the large Toronto Exhibition  (CNE) where they had a picture tube supported 
in a frame in a large glass box. They would then remotely swing a sled 
hammer at the screen...gave one a whole lot of respect for implosions! 
Glass went flying out the rear and sides and bounced off the inside walls 
of the display booth glass shield...

Modern tubes are much safer, this was back in the days when thick glass 
screens were the exception, not the rule for TV's.

John :-#)#

At 12:29 PM 03/07/2001, you wrote:
>>Oh please assure me nobody is going to aim a heat gun at the face of a 
>>picture
>>tube that still has a vacuum in it.
>
>Notice how I said "the glass face from an old tube" and not the whole 
>tube. (The thought had occurred to me too. ;-)
>
>>Remember, a CRT is a bomb.  As long as you don't set it off it's safe 
>>enough.  I
>>always cringe a little at trade shows around the booth that has a motorized
>>mallet repeatedly striking the front of an operating monitor.  I realize they
>>are trying to prove something about how their touch panel overlay can take
>>abuse, but it's still an incredibly bad idea.
>
>You know, we always hear this, but I can't really decide how much is just 
>hype and FUD.  The word "bomb" tends to conjure up firey explosions and 
>the thought of losing limbs when it goes off.  (Actually, the dictionary 
>definition hinges on "explosion" and not an implosion like a CRT.)  Every 
>CRT I've cracked, shot, and generally broken hasn't done much more than 
>spit some broken glass a few feet in a most anti-climactic manner.  I've 
>dropped glasses in the kitchen with more spectacular results!
>
>Anyone here *tried* to break the front face of an old 19" monitor with a 
>hammer?  (I have. ;-)  They're remarkably tough.  Newer ones probably use 
>thinner glass (and flatter faces) and are more damage prone though.  (An 
>old Sony 19" TV I had actually took about 5 .22 rimfire slugs from ~15 
>feet before finally puncturing with a wimpy "ssssssssss" noise.)  Knocking 
>the end of a tube with a hammer makes an interesting "foomp", and I 
>wouldn't want to be holding it when it did, but I don't find it too 
>menacing.  I think the real risk is *dropping* a tube so that it shatters 
>on impact.
>That could be pretty dangerous from the flying glass perspective (but 
>then, so would be dropping a plate-glass window, or a big glass vase).
>
>Anyway, just my $0.02.
>
>-Clay
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
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From: Zonn <zonn >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: Covering burn in (was RE: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder?)
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 13:49:29 -0700
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On Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:40:50 -0700 (PDT), Neil Bradley <neil > wrote:

>> > CRT I've cracked, shot, and generally broken hasn't done much > more
>> than spit > some broken glass a few feet in a most anti-climactic
>> manner.  > I've dropped > glasses in the kitchen with more spectacular
>> results! > > Anyone here *tried* to break the front face of an old 19"  
>> > monitor with a > hammer?  (I have. ;-)
>
>> This comment brought back flashbacks of when I was seven up in my
>> Uncles barn.  He had about 7 TVs and my cousins and I took some
>> hammers and smashed all their tubes in.  None of them really did
>> anything "menacing" or remotely scary.  I can still remember to this
>> day hearing my Uncle yell "You kids better not be messing with those
>> TVs!  I'm gonna fix those someday!"
>
>I threw a rock at an old 25" TV Console and it blew out the back of the TV
>- ripped the wood off the back and demolished everything inside. Glass
>everywhere.

This is more the way I remember it.  When I was a kid (and color TVs were still
relatively new.)  We took a 25" Color TV tube into a field and started taking
pot shots at back of it with a BB gun. (I knew no BB gun was going to effect the
front).  When one of us finally hit it, it went off like the previously
described bomb (explosion, missing limbs, etc.).  It really was pretty
spectacular.  Those old 25" color tubes were cool!

The only thing I've done recently is break off the nipple on the back of an
Amplifone med-res tube.  It just hissed for a while... I hissed for a while
longer...

-Zonn
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From: "peter jones" <highwayman2000@mail.ru>
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re[2]: Covering burn in (was RE: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder?)
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-----Original Message-----
From: "Clay Cowgill" <vector_clay >
To: vectorlist 
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 12:29:11 -0700
Subject: Re: Covering burn in (was RE: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder?)

> i think the real risk is *dropping* a tube so that it shatters on impact.  
> That could be pretty dangerous from the flying glass perspective (but then, 
> so would be dropping a plate-glass window, or a big glass vase).
> 

I droped one off the back of a pickup at 60MPH!!!!!
the glass went about 100yards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh - it didnt go 'wumph' - it went BOOOOM!!!!!!

:-)

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Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 14:31:40 -0700
To: vectorlist 
From: John Robertson <jrr >
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Monitor ?'s
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--=====================_278503566==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

19VARP4 is the tube number. Almost any 70's 19" B&W TV picture tube will 
work...

John :-#)#

At 01:39 PM 03/07/2001, you wrote:
>Hello, I have an Atari Asteroids.  I am trying to identify the 
>monitor.  Your help is appreciated.
>Here is some info from one sticker on the housing:
>19VARP4
>M50-102W
>Here is some info from another sticker:
>L345
>WG950160
>Thank you!
>  Matt

--=====================_278503566==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
19VARP4 is the tube number. Almost any 70's 19&quot; B&amp;W TV picture
tube will work...<br><br>
John :-#)#<br><br>
At 01:39 PM 03/07/2001, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite><font face="arial" size=2>Hello, I
have an Atari Asteroids.&nbsp; I am trying to identify the monitor.&nbsp;
Your help is appreciated.</font><br>
<font face="arial" size=2>Here is some info from one sticker on the
housing:<br>
19VARP4<br>
M50-102W<br>
Here is some info from another sticker:<br>
L345<br>
WG950160<br>
Thank you!<br>
&nbsp;Matt</font></blockquote></html>

--=====================_278503566==_.ALT--

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From owner-vectorlist   Tue Jul  3 18:33:36 2001
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From: mccullar@flash.net
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To: <vectorlist >
Subject: Re: Covering burn in (was RE: VECTOR: Picture tube re-builder?)
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All this talk about breaking picture tubes reminds me of my days in
Scouting.  One of the first merit badges I earned was Home Repairs.  Right
up my alley; Dad and I fixed stuff around the house all the time.  The
requirements gave you plenty of options... they'd list 30 or so, then say
"Do any 18 of the following," or some such.  Some of it was simple, like
"Solder two wires together" or "Repair a leaky faucet."  Others were much
tougher: "Waterproof a basement wall."  Well, we didn't have a basement.
That's why they gave you so many options.

Anyway, we really didn't have 18 busted things around the place, so I ended
up having to BREAK THINGS in order to fix them.  (They should have called
the badge "Home Wrecking")  I remember walking into the kitchen with a
hammer and asking, "Mom, do you have any old dinner plates you don't want
anymore?"

Those old china plates are tougher than they look!  I dropped them onto the
floor in the garage, barely chipping them.  I tried throwing them.  Finally
I jammed them into a workshop vise and busting them with a hammer.  Mission
accomplished, although you can't glue them back together until you crawl
underneath some filthy parts cabinets to fish out all the broken pieces of
china that flew under them.

Ah, the things I did for my Eagle badge!  :)

No joke -- I really had an _Omega Race_ in the garage at the same time I had
my troop over to work on my Eagle project.  "Dang it, Dan, first we work,
then we play the games!"

Matt J. McCullar


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From owner-vectorlist   Tue Jul  3 22:19:39 2001
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Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 22:02:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Christopher X. Candreva" <chris >
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Subject: VECTOR: Star Trek Spinner
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My ST spinner has what to me at least is an odd problem. It spins fine, as
long as your always go in the same direction.

If you reverse direction, it will 'jump' to some new position, then pick up
moving cleanly. Reverse again, it jumps back, and moves cleanly from there
on.

My (limited) understanding of how the spinner works dosn't point to anything
obvious to check. Can anyone point me to a likely suspect ?

-Chris

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris  -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/

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From: "Bret Pehrson" <bret >
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Subject: RE: VECTOR: Star Trek Spinner
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 19:25:23 -0700
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You have checked the obvious like making sure the encoder wheel is clean and
tight on the shaft, and cleaned the optical coupler?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-vectorlist 
> [mailto:owner-vectorlist ]On Behalf Of Christopher X.
> Candreva
> Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2001 7:02 PM
> To: vectorlist 
> Subject: VECTOR: Star Trek Spinner
>
>
>
> My ST spinner has what to me at