From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jun 2 08:56:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:56:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: gypsum.dsc.com, gypsum.dsc.com, sso , 199.181.238.203 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 08:56:09(PDT) on June 02, 1997 Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: More Laser x-y game stuff Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:51:55 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO G'day folks, Sorry for the late response, but I've been on vacation for the last week. I've delved into the topic of laser projection since I've always thought it'd be cool to play BZ on a drive-in theatre screen! After talking with someone who'd mated the Vectrex to a laser projection system, the cost of the most basic hardware ( > 1K) seemed to be the only obstacle. Maybe Gregg W could point us to this Vectrex enthusiast? Steven S Ozdemir sso ps - By the way, the actual hacking necessary to mate laser projection with vector games seemed pretty straight forward. >I know this is a little off topic, but apparently Rick Schieve once talked to >a >guy who worked at a planetarium which had a laser projection system, and the >guy was interested in setting up Star Trek and playing it inside the >planetarium. A 5 foot Klingon would look pretty cool! And hook up an audio >system, and you've got the best vector game platform you can find! :-) > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison >Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jun 2 10:36:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:36:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: suprahwy.supra.com, suprahwy.supra.com, clay , 205.229.114.11 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 10:36:23(PDT) on June 02, 1997 X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:38:35 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Multigame update! Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO Hi all! After some helpful discussions with Dave and Al on a problem I was having I now have the first cut of the Multigame daughtercard running on my G-80 system at home. It plays Zektor and Space Fury. Hitting the NMI (test) switch drops into a menu system. ;-) Anyway, it's coming along nicely. I learned some interesting things along the way: The PROM on the CPU board controls a 74ls245 bus tranciever. (No problem...) However, even though the EPROM board has its own tri-state control, the CPU PROM does the *same* thing. Cost me a few days on *that* one. The other trick is the PROM itself. It decodes A15,A14,A13,A12,A11,A10 but with A13 and A12 OR'd (I think, I don't recall now) together. This makes for a "strange" memory-map of block access. (I include the mapping at the end of this text.) What happens is that some chunks of memory can be resolved in 2K pieces, other sections result in 6K chunks. What this basically means is that I can't allow accesses to the Universal Sound Board RAM (0xd000) and the Vector RAM (0xe000) (on the backplane bus) and allow access to peripherals and Menu-system (0xf000) on the CPU board with the memory decoder as-implemented on the CPU board. No big deal, since my board has it's own memory decoding system, but until I found out that the "helpful" little PROM was fighting with me it was a real bugger to get working. :-) Special thanks to Dave for insisting the problem was in the PROM, which was right... I'll put up a screen shot of the menu system titlepage this afternoon (hopefully)... -Clay G-80 Address PROM decoder address= 0000-03FF prom location= 0000 address= 0400-07FF prom location= 0001 address= 0800-0BFF prom location= 0002 address= 0C00-0FFF prom location= 0003 address= 1000-13FF prom location= 0010 address= 1400-17FF prom location= 0011 address= 1800-1BFF prom location= 0012 address= 1C00-1FFF prom location= 0013 address= 2000-23FF prom location= 0010 address= 2400-27FF prom location= 0011 address= 2800-2BFF prom location= 0012 address= 2C00-2FFF prom location= 0013 address= 3000-33FF prom location= 0010 address= 3400-37FF prom location= 0011 address= 3800-3BFF prom location= 0012 address= 3C00-3FFF prom location= 0013 address= 4000-43FF prom location= 0004 address= 4400-47FF prom location= 0005 address= 4800-4BFF prom location= 0006 address= 4C00-4FFF prom location= 0007 address= 5000-53FF prom location= 0014 address= 5400-57FF prom location= 0015 address= 5800-5BFF prom location= 0016 address= 5C00-5FFF prom location= 0017 address= 6000-63FF prom location= 0014 address= 6400-67FF prom location= 0015 address= 6800-6BFF prom location= 0016 address= 6C00-6FFF prom location= 0017 address= 7000-73FF prom location= 0014 address= 7400-77FF prom location= 0015 address= 7800-7BFF prom location= 0016 address= 7C00-7FFF prom location= 0017 address= 8000-83FF prom location= 0008 address= 8400-87FF prom location= 0009 address= 8800-8BFF prom location= 000a address= 8C00-8FFF prom location= 000b address= 9000-93FF prom location= 0018 address= 9400-97FF prom location= 0019 address= 9800-9BFF prom location= 001a address= 9C00-9FFF prom location= 001b address= A000-A3FF prom location= 0018 address= A400-A7FF prom location= 0019 address= A800-ABFF prom location= 001a address= AC00-AFFF prom location= 001b address= B000-B3FF prom location= 0018 address= B400-B7FF prom location= 0019 address= B800-BBFF prom location= 001a address= BC00-BFFF prom location= 001b address= C000-C3FF prom location= 000c address= C400-C7FF prom location= 000d address= C800-CBFF prom location= 000e address= CC00-CFFF prom location= 000f address= D000-D3FF prom location= 001c address= D400-D7FF prom location= 001d address= D800-DBFF prom location= 001e address= DC00-DFFF prom location= 001f address= E000-E3FF prom location= 001c address= E400-E7FF prom location= 001d address= E800-EBFF prom location= 001e address= EC00-EFFF prom location= 001f address= F000-F3FF prom location= 001c address= F400-F7FF prom location= 001d address= F800-FBFF prom location= 001e address= FC00-FFFF prom location= 001f Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jun 2 11:08:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:08:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:08:22 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Multigame update! Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO cool! I was thinking of hacking the images to move the service switch up to one of the buttons on the control panel to make it easier to coin-up. Originally, I thought of just hard-wiring the coin count to 2, but if I did that, you'd never see the critter in the attract mode of Space Fury... From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jun 2 11:09:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:09:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: motgate.mot.com, motgate.mot.com, jenison , 129.188.136.100 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 11:09:14(PDT) on June 02, 1997 Message-Id: <199706021815.OAA23068 > Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:04:57 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Clay Cowgill "Multigame update!" (Jun 2, 10:38am) References: <199706021744.NAA20277 > X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Multigame update! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO On Jun 2, 10:38am, Clay Cowgill wrote: > Subject: Multigame update! > Hi all! > > After some helpful discussions with Dave and Al on a problem I was having I > now have the first cut of the Multigame daughtercard running on my G-80 > system at home. It plays Zektor and Space Fury. Hitting the NMI (test) > switch drops into a menu system. ;-) > > Anyway, it's coming along nicely. I learned some interesting things along > the way: [techy rambling deleted ;-)] Sounds great! Am I right in saying that the menu system doesn't really buy you any convenience at this point because you still have to swap the sound boards? (Hmm, I haven't tried running Eliminator or Tac/Scan with a Speechboard...I wonder if it's possible using the menu system to go between StarTrek<->Tac/Scan and Eliminator<->Zektor at least at this point). The more I think about it, the more I'm interested in the menu system. For a normal converta-cabinet, it's not such a pain to swap boards and control panels, but for a 4-player Eliminator, swapping in another cage is a pain in the $*@! However, I'd also like to see how the controls are handled; we're in a similar situation as with the Bally MCR stuff where control pinout change from game to game. Also, for the menu system, is there anyway you can make it the reset switch instead of the NMI? Hitting the reset switch is much easier and something that even MY friends could figure out :-) > I'll put up a screen shot of the menu system titlepage this afternoon > (hopefully)... On your homepage I'm assuming? BTW, anyone know of a source for those ORATOR chips found on the speech boards? Also, how many people would be interested in Clay getting a run of the Single Player rotary interface (used for Star Trek, Tac/Scan, Zektor) boards made up? They are extremely simple boards, but are hard to find. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jun 2 11:22:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:22:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: vnet.ibm.com, VNET.IBM.COM, linvjw , 204.146.168.194 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 11:22:48(PDT) on June 02, 1997 From: Message-Id: <9706021817.AA30160 > Subject: Re: Multigame update! To: vectorlist Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:17:34 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199706021815.OAA23068 > from "Mark Jenison" at Jun 2, 97 01:04:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 683 Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO > Also, how many people would be interested in Clay getting a run of the Single > Player rotary interface (used for Star Trek, Tac/Scan, Zektor) boards made up? > They are extremely simple boards, but are hard to find. I'd probably be interested in that. Is there a schematic of that in the Star Trek manual? I glanced through, but didn't find it. (page numbers, please... :-) ) John +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John W. Linville To Be, Rather Than To Seem. | | linvjw http://www4.ncsu.edu/eos/users/j/jwlinvi/www | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jun 2 11:23:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:23:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: dragon.ti.com, dragon.ti.com, mschulz , 192.94.94.61 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 11:23:15(PDT) on June 02, 1997 Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:18:53 -0500 Message-Id: <199706021818.NAA06968 > From: Michael Schulz To: vectorlist In-Reply-To: <199706021815.OAA23068 > (message from Mark Jenison on Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:04:57 -0500) Subject: Re: Rotary Interface Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO >Also, how many people would be interested in Clay getting a run of the Single >Player rotary interface (used for Star Trek, Tac/Scan, Zektor) boards made up? > They are extremely simple boards, but are hard to find. > I'd definitely buy a few! -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Schulz | Texas Instruments, SpecWorks Software Design Engineer | (972) 927-5847, mschulz ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- The opinions and views expressed are my own, and do ------------- ----------- not necessarily reflect those of Texas Instruments Inc. ----------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jun 2 11:31:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:31:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:31:54 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Multigame update! Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO page 119 in the schematics section. it has a 74ls244 for input buffering of the buttons and a ls244/ls393 combo for the spinner. which port is input is based off of a bit in another register. the actual spinner just has a photointerrupter on it From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jun 2 11:34:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:34:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:34:39 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Rotary Interface Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO if you were going to do the adapter board, you might want to put it on the multi-game board, and include the 4 player eliminator stuff too.. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jun 2 11:52:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:52:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: X-BlackMail: mailgate.nortel.ca, bcarsde4.localhost, woodcock@nortel.ca, 192.58.194.74 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 11:52:23(PDT) on June 02, 1997 Date: 02 Jun 1997 14:36 EDT To: vectorlist From: "Gregg Woodcock" Subject: re:More Laser x-y game stuff Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO >After talking with someone who'd mated the Vectrex to a laser projection >system, the cost of the most basic hardware ( > 1K) seemed to be the >only obstacle. Maybe Gregg W could point us to this Vectrex enthusiast? Sorry; I know it comes up ALL THE TIME but I have never seen anybody say they'd done it (always "a guy I know"). -- THANX...Gregg day 214.684.7380 night UNLIST/PUBL TEXAS NOT CANADA! woodcock or woodcock@dfwmm.net *CLASSIC VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR BUY/SELL/TRADE NON-COMPUTER (ARCADE/HOME)* "If you quote me on this I'll have to deny it; I won't remember because I have such a bad memory. Not only that, but my memory is *terrible*." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jun 2 11:56:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:56:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: suprahwy.supra.com, suprahwy.supra.com, clay , 205.229.114.11 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 11:56:01(PDT) on June 02, 1997 X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:58:11 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Multigame update! Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO >Also, how many people would be interested in Clay getting a run of the Single >Player rotary interface (used for Star Trek, Tac/Scan, Zektor) boards made up? > They are extremely simple boards, but are hard to find. Oh, hey, *that* was the other thing I was going to mention... ;-) (Actually, I'll go into my "controller" discussion now...) I'm going to make a rotary interface for myself, so if anyone else wants one, speak up and I'll do another run of PCBs when I produce the multi-game cards. The current plan is that I have a little PIC controller that watches and routes signals for the player controls to the game PCB. I'm not *real* sure where this lives yet in the system. I think it might make sense to replace some of the stuff on the CPU board, but I haven't really checked it out. The "controller controller" does a few things: 1) When P1 start and P2 start are pressed simultaneously and held in for >1sec NMI is asserted which calls the menu program. (neat, huh? :-) 2) Remaps P1 and P2 to work for all games. 3) Remaps Impulse/Fire on StarTrek to match thrust/fire on the rest (yeah, it's nit-picky but would bug me to no end if I didn't do it. ;-) 4) Provides quadrature outputs from SF/Elim rotate buttons. (So the rotate buttons on Space Fury and Eliminator can be used instead of the spinner knob.) I think that's it... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jun 2 12:06:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:05:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: gypsum.dsc.com, gypsum.dsc.com, sso , 199.181.238.203 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 12:05:55(PDT) on June 02, 1997 Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: More Laser x-y game stuff Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:01:39 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO G'day folks, Well, I'm sure I was dealing with the actual guy who mated the Vectrex to a laser projection system several years ago. Maybe Mark Woodward would know since one of Mark's multi carts motivated him to do this? (As I remember scores were a big problem, so maybe something was hacked to remove scoring on the Vectrex? But now I'm speculating.) As I remember, this guy was located in the south but not into arcade games. He kept a pretty low profile for obvious reasons. Steven S Ozdemir sso ps - I can start searching my archives if someone really wants to pursue this laser thing. I'm sure I kept shreds of information around. >---------- >From: Gregg Woodcock[SMTP:woodcock@nortel.ca] >Sent: Monday, June 02, 1997 1:36 PM >To: vectorlist >Subject: re:More Laser x-y game stuff > >>After talking with someone who'd mated the Vectrex to a laser projection >>system, the cost of the most basic hardware ( > 1K) seemed to be the >>only obstacle. Maybe Gregg W could point us to this Vectrex enthusiast? > >Sorry; I know it comes up ALL THE TIME but I have never seen anybody >say they'd done it (always "a guy I know"). >-- >THANX...Gregg day 214.684.7380 night UNLIST/PUBL TEXAS NOT CANADA! > woodcock or woodcock@dfwmm.net >*CLASSIC VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR BUY/SELL/TRADE NON-COMPUTER (ARCADE/HOME)* >"If you quote me on this I'll have to deny it; I won't remember because >I have such a bad memory. Not only that, but my memory is *terrible*." > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jun 2 12:10:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:10:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: ftpbox.mot.com, ftpbox.mot.com, jenison , 129.188.136.101 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 12:10:14(PDT) on June 02, 1997 Message-Id: <199706021916.PAA29201 > Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:05:46 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Clay Cowgill "Re: Multigame update!" (Jun 2, 11:58am) References: <199706021902.PAA27947 > X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Multigame update! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO On Jun 2, 11:58am, Clay Cowgill wrote: > Subject: Re: Multigame update! > > >Also, how many people would be interested in Clay getting a run of the Single > >Player rotary interface (used for Star Trek, Tac/Scan, Zektor) boards made up? > > They are extremely simple boards, but are hard to find. > > Oh, hey, *that* was the other thing I was going to mention... ;-) > > (Actually, I'll go into my "controller" discussion now...) > > I'm going to make a rotary interface for myself, so if anyone else wants > one, speak up and I'll do another run of PCBs when I produce the multi-game > cards. > > The current plan is that I have a little PIC controller that watches and > routes signals for the player controls to the game PCB. I'm not *real* > sure where this lives yet in the system. I think it might make sense to > replace some of the stuff on the CPU board, but I haven't really checked it > out. > > The "controller controller" does a few things: > > 1) When P1 start and P2 start are pressed simultaneously and held in for >1sec > NMI is asserted which calls the menu program. (neat, huh? :-) Holding P1 start and P2 start are commonly used to skip quickly through the games test mode, so I don't think this is a good idea (coming from a guy whose had to go through test mode +1000 times and couldn't live without this feature...). I vote for reset (or can't this be done?) > 2) Remaps P1 and P2 to work for all games. > 3) Remaps Impulse/Fire on StarTrek to match thrust/fire on the rest (yeah, > it's nit-picky but would bug me to no end if I didn't do it. ;-) Totally agree; it's a pain to switch these wires when I play Star Trek on my enhanced Tac/Scan control panel. > 4) Provides quadrature outputs from SF/Elim rotate buttons. (So the rotate > buttons on Space Fury and Eliminator can be used instead of the spinner > knob.) Optional right? (So you can use an encoder wheel if you have one) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jun 2 12:17:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:17:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: motgate.mot.com, motgate.mot.com, jenison , 129.188.136.100 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 12:17:17(PDT) on June 02, 1997 Message-Id: <199706021923.PAA29776 > Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:12:54 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Mark Jenison "Re: Multigame update!" (Jun 2, 2:05pm) References: <199706021902.PAA27947 > <199706021917.PAA29229 > X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Multigame update! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO On Jun 2, 2:05pm, Mark Jenison wrote: > Subject: Re: Multigame update! > On Jun 2, 11:58am, Clay Cowgill wrote: > > Subject: Re: Multigame update! > > > > The "controller controller" does a few things: > > > > 1) When P1 start and P2 start are pressed simultaneously and held in for > >1sec > > NMI is asserted which calls the menu program. (neat, huh? :-) > > Holding P1 start and P2 start are commonly used to skip quickly through the > games test mode, so I don't think this is a good idea (coming from a guy whose > had to go through test mode +1000 times and couldn't live without this > feature...). I vote for reset (or can't this be done?) Oops...another catch. In 4-player Eliminator test mode, to skip quickly through it you use the RESET switch (since there are no P1 or P2 start buttons), so maybe that wouldn't be such a great idea either. Maybe an independant switch that you'll just have to mount somewhere if you want to use the menu system? (I suppose I can solder wires directly to the test switch if I want to do that; the test switch triggers the NMI anyway). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jun 2 12:25:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:25:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:25:30 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: multi game switching Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO CPU reset would be the least invasive to most of the game ROMs and it does assure you that you'd get back to the menu code (actually I'm not sure how much you had to patch in the NMI routines to be able to get back once the game was running). From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jun 2 13:50:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:50:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: suprahwy.supra.com, suprahwy.supra.com, clay , 205.229.114.11 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 13:50:16(PDT) on June 02, 1997 X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:52:21 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Multigame update! Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO >> 1) When P1 start and P2 start are pressed simultaneously and held in for >>1sec >> NMI is asserted which calls the menu program. (neat, huh? :-) > >Holding P1 start and P2 start are commonly used to skip quickly through the >games test mode, so I don't think this is a good idea (coming from a guy whose >had to go through test mode +1000 times and couldn't live without this >feature...). I vote for reset (or can't this be done?) Ahhh, hmmmm. I don't really care *what* switches they are, just as long as all the games had them and it was unlikely that the combination would occur during game play (that was the idea behind the "press and hold for more than a second" thing. I can do P1 start plus "fire" just as easily. That shouldn't clobber anything... Using reset instead... I'll have to think about that one. The handy thing about the NMI was that it's a nice little hook already built in for me. All I do is replace the vector for NMI in each game to point to the menu code. The menu code is mapped in at locations 0xF000-0xF7FF which are normally unused. The menu system sets a bank select/parameter register pair that switches the low ROM area (0x0000-0xBFFF) to the appropriate game, tells the Controller Controller what's going on, tells the screen rotate logic whether or not to kick in, and then just jumps to 0000 to restart. >> 3) Remaps Impulse/Fire on StarTrek to match thrust/fire on the rest (yeah, >> it's nit-picky but would bug me to no end if I didn't do it. ;-) > >Totally agree; it's a pain to switch these wires when I play Star Trek on my >enhanced Tac/Scan control panel. Good. It wasn't just for me then. ;-) >> 4) Provides quadrature outputs from SF/Elim rotate buttons. (So the rotate >> buttons on Space Fury and Eliminator can be used instead of the spinner >> knob.) > >Optional right? (So you can use an encoder wheel if you have one) Right. This was for Space Fury/Eliminator people that want to try Zektor/ST/TS but don't want to switch control panels and/or don't have a spinner knob around. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jun 2 14:03:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:02:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: gypsum.dsc.com, gypsum.dsc.com, sso , 199.181.238.203 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 14:02:55(PDT) on June 02, 1997 Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: Multigame update! Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:58:45 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO G'day folks, >From my days at William's, many games have an "octopus" move (pushing a large number of buttons and all joysticks at once) enabled only during attract move to show credit screens, special messages to friends, etc. (Boy, do game designers love to show off these "secret" things...almost like someone showing off the latest MK6 move they found.) Of course, the game designers have the source code, so making something only available during attract mode is quite easy. My point is, can we solve the problem of routing to the menu in software instead? Perhaps, add some code to rewrite the vector for NMI only during attract mode (and then write it back to the proper value when the game starts)?? Of course, this approach means that you've created a new version of the software. But you are doing this already to add the menu, eh? Steven S Ozdemir sso >---------- >From: Clay Cowgill[SMTP:clay ] >Sent: Monday, June 02, 1997 4:52 PM >To: vectorlist >Subject: Re: Multigame update! > >>> 1) When P1 start and P2 start are pressed simultaneously and held in for >>>1sec >>> NMI is asserted which calls the menu program. (neat, huh? :-) >> >>Holding P1 start and P2 start are commonly used to skip quickly through the >>games test mode, so I don't think this is a good idea (coming from a guy >>whose >>had to go through test mode +1000 times and couldn't live without this >>feature...). I vote for reset (or can't this be done?) > >Ahhh, hmmmm. I don't really care *what* switches they are, just as long as >all the games had them and it was unlikely that the combination would occur >during game play (that was the idea behind the "press and hold for more >than a second" thing. I can do P1 start plus "fire" just as easily. That >shouldn't clobber anything... > >Using reset instead... I'll have to think about that one. The handy thing >about the NMI was that it's a nice little hook already built in for me. >All I do is replace the vector for NMI in each game to point to the menu >code. The menu code is mapped in at locations 0xF000-0xF7FF which are >normally unused. The menu system sets a bank select/parameter register >pair that switches the low ROM area (0x0000-0xBFFF) to the appropriate >game, tells the Controller Controller what's going on, tells the screen >rotate logic whether or not to kick in, and then just jumps to 0000 to >restart. > >>> 3) Remaps Impulse/Fire on StarTrek to match thrust/fire on the rest >>>(yeah, >>> it's nit-picky but would bug me to no end if I didn't do it. ;-) >> >>Totally agree; it's a pain to switch these wires when I play Star Trek on my >>enhanced Tac/Scan control panel. > >Good. It wasn't just for me then. ;-) > >>> 4) Provides quadrature outputs from SF/Elim rotate buttons. (So the >>>rotate >>> buttons on Space Fury and Eliminator can be used instead of the >>>spinner >>> knob.) >> >>Optional right? (So you can use an encoder wheel if you have one) > >Right. This was for Space Fury/Eliminator people that want to try >Zektor/ST/TS but don't want to switch control panels and/or don't have a >spinner knob around. > >-Clay > >Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager >_______________________________________________________________________ >/\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay >\/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ > > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jun 2 19:53:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 19:52:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: out1.ibm.net, out1.ibm.net, johnbutler@ibm.net, 165.87.194.252 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 19:52:48(PDT) on June 02, 1997 Message-Id: <199706030247.CAA17040@out1.ibm.net> From: "John Butler" To: Subject: Re: Rotary Interface Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 19:53:43 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1160 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO I would also take several of these. By the way, since I am of no use technically, I would love to volunteer to put this project into HTML and publish it on the web when I get my homepage up. I have been an associate Webmaster for a year at Hamilton Hallmark Electronics, so I should be able to do this including the conversion of any graphics. I have a scanner also so if anyone needs something scanned let me know. John Butler Mesa, AZ Collector of video arcade games ---------- > From: Michael Schulz > To: vectorlist > Subject: Re: Rotary Interface > Date: Monday, June 02, 1997 11:18 AM > > > >Also, how many people would be interested in Clay getting a run of the Single > >Player rotary interface (used for Star Trek, Tac/Scan, Zektor) boards made up? > > They are extremely simple boards, but are hard to find. > > > > I'd definitely buy a few! > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > Michael Schulz | Texas Instruments, SpecWorks > Software Design Engineer | (972) 927-5847, mschulz > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > ------------- The opinions and views expressed are my own, and do ------------- > ----------- not necessarily reflect those of Texas Instruments Inc. ----------- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 3 07:03:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 07:03:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: motgate.mot.com, motgate.mot.com, jenison , 129.188.136.100 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 07:03:27(PDT) on June 03, 1997 Message-Id: <199706031409.KAA27280 > Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:59:09 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: "Re: Multigame update!" (Jun 3, 9:54am) References: <199706031406.KAA26957 > X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Multigame update! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO On Jun 3, 9:54am, wrote: > Subject: Re: Multigame update! > > page 119 in the schematics section. > > Hmmm...are you looking in the manual for the upright? The photocopy I > have is of the cockpit manual. Anyone know where the rotary interface > schematic is in there? There are many different copies of the Star Trek manual; conversion kit, Converta-game upright, dedicated upright and Cockpit. If you have the schematics for Star Trek for ANY manual, it's the schematic labeled "Single Player Control Interface" or something like that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 3 07:04:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 07:04:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: mhro1.mayo.edu, mhro1.mayo.edu, ray@mayo.edu, 129.176.100.75 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 07:04:05(PDT) on June 03, 1997 Message-Id: <199706031352.IAA02755@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Tue, 3 Jun 97 08:54:23 -0500 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Multigame update! References: Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO You wrote: > >> 4) Provides quadrature outputs from SF/Elim rotate buttons. (So the rotate > >> buttons on Space Fury and Eliminator can be used instead of the spinner > >> knob.) > > > >Optional right? (So you can use an encoder wheel if you have one) > > Right. This was for Space Fury/Eliminator people that want to try > Zektor/ST/TS but don't want to switch control panels and/or don't have a > spinner knob around. Couple other items that would be helpful: The option of using a Tempest style encoder wheel and getting the right "feel" (pulses/revolution). These are not only easier to find than the Sega ones (you can sub trakballs, worst case) but it would make things easier for a universal vector setup. A buffer on the coin input that automatically generates the right timing on the normally open/normally closed lines (fits in well with the next item) Standardization on the equivalent of a JAMMA pinout for vector games, with the appropriate mapping on the multigame board. You would presumably use the same pinout for your new vector system Clay. Ray From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 3 07:13:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 07:13:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: vnet.ibm.com, VNET.IBM.COM, linvjw , 204.146.168.194 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 07:13:20(PDT) on June 03, 1997 From: Message-Id: <9706031408.AA16828 > Subject: Re: Multigame update! To: vectorlist Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 10:08:00 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199706031409.KAA27280 > from "Mark Jenison" at Jun 3, 97 08:59:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 949 Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO > On Jun 3, 9:54am, wrote: > > Subject: Re: Multigame update! > > > page 119 in the schematics section. > > > > Hmmm...are you looking in the manual for the upright? The photocopy I > > have is of the cockpit manual. Anyone know where the rotary interface > > schematic is in there? > > There are many different copies of the Star Trek manual; conversion kit, > Converta-game upright, dedicated upright and Cockpit. > > If you have the schematics for Star Trek for ANY manual, it's the schematic > labeled "Single Player Control Interface" or something like that. Well, then I'm apparently missing a page. Thanks anyway. John +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John W. Linville To Be, Rather Than To Seem. | | linvjw http://www4.ncsu.edu/eos/users/j/jwlinvi/www | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 3 07:23:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 07:23:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: kim.teleport.com, kim.teleport.com, luna , 192.108.254.26 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 07:23:50(PDT) on June 03, 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970704071614.006a5a74 > X-Sender: luna X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 07:16:15 -0700 To: vectorlist From: "Chris.Hanks" Subject: Star Trek cockpit Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO Anybody have Star Trek cockpit manuals (or copies) that I could purchase? Thanks, Chris. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 3 07:24:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 07:24:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: motgate.mot.com, motgate.mot.com, jenison , 129.188.136.100 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 07:24:12(PDT) on June 03, 1997 Message-Id: <199706031430.KAA29503 > Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:19:49 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Ray Ghanbari "Re: Multigame update!" (Jun 3, 8:54am) References: <199706031411.KAA27387 > X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Multigame update! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO On Jun 3, 8:54am, Ray Ghanbari wrote: > Subject: Re: Multigame update! > You wrote: > > >> 4) Provides quadrature outputs from SF/Elim rotate buttons. (So the rotate > > >> buttons on Space Fury and Eliminator can be used instead of the spinner > > >> knob.) > > > > > >Optional right? (So you can use an encoder wheel if you have one) > > > > Right. This was for Space Fury/Eliminator people that want to try > > Zektor/ST/TS but don't want to switch control panels and/or don't have a > > spinner knob around. > > Couple other items that would be helpful: > > The option of using a Tempest style encoder wheel and getting the right "feel" > (pulses/revolution). These are not only easier to find than the Sega ones > (you can sub trakballs, worst case) but it would make things easier for a > universal vector setup. > > A buffer on the coin input that automatically generates the right timing on > the normally open/normally closed lines (fits in well with the next item) > > Standardization on the equivalent of a JAMMA pinout for vector games, with the > appropriate mapping on the multigame board. You would presumably use the same > pinout for your new vector system Clay. Oh yes! The XYJAMMA set up! I proposed this standard about a year ago: -> XY JAMMA Standard Connector <- Name Of Game: N/A Solder Side | Parts Side ________________________________|___________________________________ GND | A | 1 | GND ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- 36VAC | B | 2 | 36VAC ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- +5 | C | 3 | +5 ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- +22 | D | 4 | +22 ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- -5 | E | 5 | -5 ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- +12 | F | 6 | +12 (used for 10.3VDC) ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- - KEY - | H | 7 | - KEY - ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- Coin Counter # 2 | J | 8 | Coin Counter # 1 ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- -22 | K | 9 | -22 ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- Speaker (-) | L | 10| Speaker (+) ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- X OUT | M | 11| Y OUT ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- Video Green | N | 12| Video Red ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- Video GND | P | 13| Video Blue ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- Service Switch | R | 14| Test Switch ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- Game Select | S | 15| ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- Coin Switch # 2 | T | 16| Coin Switch # 1 ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- 2P Start | U | 17| 1P Start ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- | V | 18| ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- Dir H | W | 19| Clk H ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- 2P Rot Left | X | 20| 1P Rot Left ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- 2P Rot Right | Y | 21| 1P Rot Right ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- 2P Thrust | Z | 22| 1P Thrust ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- 2P Fire | a | 23| 1P Fire ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- 2P Action 1 | b | 24| 1P Action 1 ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- | c | 25| ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- Pot V | d | 26| Pot H ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- GND | e | 27| GND ----------------------------|---|---|------------------------------- GND | f | 28| GND -------------------------------------------------------------------- This contains most of the controls and voltages for most any vector game. At the minimum, it can play these games: Star Wars Empire Strike Back Tail Gunner Lunar Lander Red Baron Gravitar Asteroids Asteroids Deluxe Space Fury Eliminator Space Duel RipOff Star Castle Armor Attack Major Havok Tempest Tac/Scan Star Trek (You need a extra control panel harness for Space Wars, Sundance, Quantum and Battlezone, but who can find these boardsets anyway? ;-)) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 3 07:53:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 07:53:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 07:53:06 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Multigame update! Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO I'll see if I can scan it in today. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 3 07:54:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 07:54:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 07:54:35 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Star Trek cockpit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO Miggs was just selling a set in RGVAC If I can get over to a scanner today, I'll scan them in. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 3 10:08:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 10:08:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: mailhost.worldnet.att.net, mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net, RW54741@worldnet.att.net, 204.127.131.34 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 10:07:58(PDT) on June 03, 1997 Message-ID: <33944ED6.1B22@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 12:05:26 -0500 From: Robert B Wood X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Wintron flybacks References: <199706031406.KAA26957 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO I called Wintron yesterday to get a price on Amplifone flyback replacements and was told I had to have a Wintron part number before they could help me. Can anyone tell me how I might obtain this? BOB From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 3 11:22:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:22:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: root , 207.17.190.2 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 11:22:14(PDT) on June 03, 1997 X-Sender: jeffh Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:17:20 -0500 To: vectorlist From: jeffh (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: Wintron flybacks Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO the Wintron part number is 926862802 >I called Wintron yesterday to get a price on Amplifone >flyback replacements and was told I had to have a Wintron >part number before they could help me. Can anyone tell me >how I might obtain this? > >BOB jeffh Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 3 15:40:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:40:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:40:31 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: rotary interface schematic up Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO http://www.spies.com/arcade/simulation/schematics/segarotenc.JPG and http://www.spies.com/arcade/simulation/schematics/rotintf.JPG I'll try to get the 4 player Eliminator interface scanned in a little later today. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 3 16:28:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:28:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: suprahwy.supra.com, suprahwy.supra.com, clay , 205.229.114.11 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 16:28:29(PDT) on June 03, 1997 X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:30:28 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Multigame feature-- input? Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO I keep having this stupid (?) idea that I think I know how to pull off, but I don't know if it's worth spending any time on... (Need to avoid "creeping-featuritus" ;-) I can stick a little extra SRAM on the daughtercard and have a "save game" feature that can save a game in progress. (So basically when you call the menu-system, it stashes the CPU status and contents of the display and CPU memory. You can then turn the machine off and a battery-backup will save your game. The next time you turn the machine on you can call the menu-system and "resume" your saved game. At least it works in theory. :-) I dunno if any of the games are really long enough to make it worth while though. Probably just delay things anyway. Still, though, kinda interesting to think about... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 3 16:49:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:49:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu, post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu, ethst3+@pitt.edu, 136.142.185.10 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 16:49:09(PDT) on June 03, 1997 Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:39:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Ed Henciak X-Sender: ethst3@unixs4.cis.pitt.edu To: Clay Cowgill cc: vectorlist Subject: Re: Multigame feature-- input? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO Heya Clay, That SRAM idea is rather slick. It'd be neat to fight in sector 99.2 on Star Trek without having to sit in the machine for hours on end!!! I hope you do concider it as long as it doesn't take hours away from design time. On another note, are you simply going to swap XY inputs for Tac Scan. I'd love to see you pull off an adjustable type screen using that encoder. That was a great idea. If you could somehow smash Tac/Scan's screen to fit completely in a horizontal frame, that would make my day (not like I'm that important...but you know what I mean). I know all of this was discussed before, but please concider that. I guess you could just use the encoder to increment an up/down counter, run that value through an ADC. and then use that voltage as a reference to resize the screen (I'm just an engineering undergrad...I'm sure you have something fancier/better in mind). Anyway, thanks a million for all the work...my check's in the mail if you produce them!!!!! Take it easy!! Ed From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 3 16:52:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:52:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: motgate.mot.com, motgate.mot.com, jenison , 129.188.136.100 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 16:52:17(PDT) on June 03, 1997 Message-Id: <199706032358.TAA23868 > Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:47:46 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Clay Cowgill "Multigame feature-- input?" (Jun 3, 4:30pm) References: <199706032335.TAA22573 > X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Multigame feature-- input? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO On Jun 3, 4:30pm, Clay Cowgill wrote: > Subject: Multigame feature-- input? > I keep having this stupid (?) idea that I think I know how to pull off, but > I don't know if it's worth spending any time on... (Need to avoid > "creeping-featuritus" ;-) > > I can stick a little extra SRAM on the daughtercard and have a "save game" > feature that can save a game in progress. (So basically when you call the > menu-system, it stashes the CPU status and contents of the display and CPU > memory. You can then turn the machine off and a battery-backup will save > your game. The next time you turn the machine on you can call the > menu-system and "resume" your saved game. At least it works in theory. :-) > I dunno if any of the games are really long enough to make it worth while > though. Probably just delay things anyway. Still, though, kinda > interesting to think about... I think the games are too short to say "I can't finish this games; I have to go to bed", so this feature doesn't sound so useful....however, a simple pause button would be nice between rounds of 4-player Eliminator so the players can get another beer (I love the built in drink holders these come with ;-)). However, if you haven't noticed, the game already has this pause feature built in; it's called "holding down the coin switch". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jun 4 07:40:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:40:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: vnet.ibm.com, VNET.IBM.COM, linvjw , 204.146.168.194 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 07:40:04(PDT) on June 04, 1997 From: Message-Id: <9706041435.AA26750 > Subject: Re: rotary interface schematic up To: vectorlist Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:35:23 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Al Kossow" at Jun 3, 97 03:40:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 606 Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO > http://www.spies.com/arcade/simulation/schematics/segarotenc.JPG and > http://www.spies.com/arcade/simulation/schematics/rotintf.JPG > > I'll try to get the 4 player Eliminator interface scanned in a little > later today. Thanks, Al! Looks great! I'm looking forward to the Eliminator 4-player stuff! John +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John W. Linville To Be, Rather Than To Seem. | | linvjw http://www4.ncsu.edu/eos/users/j/jwlinvi/www | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jun 4 17:24:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:24:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:24:23 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: 'bug' in G80 vector generator Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO I just fixed a corner case in my simulation which revealed an interesting bug in the G80 hardware. I wasn't testing for 'last symbol' until after the first symbol was finished. Guess what, they don't either! It appears that the first symbol is ALWAYS drawn from the symbol list (sort of makes sense thinking about the way the state machine works in the hardware) and it turns out that Space Fury isn't real good about keeping the valid bit set on the first symbol, some screens have it set and some don't. ..just thought you'd all like to know (and i'll add it to the FAQ). I'm about halfway through rewriting the blitting code in the simulator to be much smarter about redraws by keeping track of 8 * 8 blocks of pixels on the offscreen bitmap and only blitting the blocks that have changed. I'm also adding an antialiased vector drawing routine which should get rid of that nasty jitter you see as things scroll up and down (like the instructions in Space Fury). From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jun 4 19:59:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 19:59:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: emout17.mx.aol.com, emout17.mail.aol.com, Dangerwil , 198.81.11.43 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 19:58:59(PDT) on June 04, 1997 Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 22:54:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Dangerwil Message-ID: <970604225259_-329402660 > To: vectorlist Subject: SW WG Missing vectors Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO All, I have been tracking this nutty problem for a couple of days now. I have a Star Wars that is displaying misplaced vectors. The monitor is a WG 6100 that has an older tube with a lot of Gravitar burn in. The display shows up looking much like a WG K4900 with a lot of horizontal curl. The top vectors, score and shield bar all smear down the screen. I also see a waviness to the screen, much like a bad power supply will exhibit on a raster monitor. I have substituted every part of the monitor with a known good one, except for the yoke and tube, even the output transistors . I plugged the game into another monitor and the screen looked fine. I guess my tube is toast, but I have never seen this particular fail. Could this be a yoke problem?? Any input you have would be a help. Thanks, Bill From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jun 4 20:15:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 20:15:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-BlackMail: root , 198.82.155.146 X-Authenticated-Timestamp: 20:15:13(PDT) on June 04, 1997 Message-ID: <33962EB6.4DF5 > Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 21:12:54 -0600 From: Jess Askey X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: SW WG Missing vectors References: <970604225259_-329402660 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO Dangerwil wrote: > > All, > > I have been tracking this nutty problem for a couple of days now. I have > a Star Wars that is displaying misplaced vectors. > > The monitor is a WG 6100 that has an older tube with a lot of Gravitar burn > in. The display shows up looking much like a WG K4900 with a lot of > horizontal curl. > > The top vectors, score and shield bar all smear down the screen. I also see a > waviness to the screen, much like a bad power supply will exhibit on a raster > monitor. > > I have substituted every part of the monitor with a known good one, except > for the yoke and tube, even the output transistors . I plugged the game > into another monitor and the screen looked fine. > > I guess my tube is toast, but I have never seen this particular fail. Could > this be a yoke problem?? > > Any input you have would be a help. > > Thanks, > > Bill Ohhh, you got me!!?? That is definitely a strange problem. If the vectors are actually smearing like running paint, then I would suspect the tube. I have never seen an XY tube go bad though, but then again I haven't worked on TONS of vector games, just a lot. I really can't even see a yoke going bad. If it did then it would have to be some sort of short. That would just decrease the inductance and lower the resistance + running the outputs hotter, maybe misplacing vectors too. But assuming that the yoke is bad, that would mean that you probably only have fault in one of the windings. Having both go bad at the same time wouldn't seem likely since they are in seperate circuits. That would mean that your smearing or displacement should only be happening on one axis. Look very closely to see if both are affected or only one. That is the best way I track down problems with the old XY's. Good Luck! -- Unofficial Atari Game Page:http://magenta.com/havoc Lots of other General Arcade Game info at http://arcadegames.miningco.com From: "Gregg Woodcock" Subject: Re: SW WG Missing vectors Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO In message "Re: SW WG Missing vectors", you write: >Ohhh, you got me!!?? That is definitely a strange problem. If the >vectors are actually smearing like running paint, then I would suspect >the tube. I have never seen an XY tube go bad though, but then again I >haven't worked on TONS of vector games, just a lot. > I really can't even see a yoke going bad. If it did then it would have >to be some sort of short. That would just decrease the inductance and >lower the resistance + running the outputs hotter, maybe misplacing >vectors too. But assuming that the yoke is bad, that would mean that you >probably only have fault in one of the windings. Having both go bad at Surely it is not the yoke but I suppose it could be the tube but I really doubt it since the monitor works fine running other games. Obvously the problem is in the AVG board of the Star Wasr set! >the same time wouldn't seem likely since they are in seperate circuits. >That would mean that your smearing or displacement should only be >happening on one axis. Look very closely to see if both are affected or >only one. That is the best way I track down problems with the old XY's. The displacement is due to too slow a slew rate for the W-G compared to the Amplifone. Decrease the X-SIZ and Y-SIZ a bit and that problem should improve. As far as shakey video... TECH TIP from the ATARI FIELD SERVICE DEPARTMENT STAR WARS Vector-Generator PCB Shaky Video Problem: Some games may have shaky video after a 15-minute warm-up. The video will start to shake in the high-score screen. The words PRINCESS LEIA'S REBEL FORCE will start to flutter and then worsen to an up-and-down movement of about 1/8 inch. In its worst state, the scores will also move back and forth. Solution: Change the 10K Ohm resistor R83 on the Vector-Generator PCB to a 20K Ohm resistor. -- THANX...Gregg day 214.684.7380 night UNLIST/PUBL TEXAS NOT CANADA! woodcock or woodcock@dfwmm.net *CLASSIC VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR BUY/SELL/TRADE NON-COMPUTER (ARCADE/HOME)* "If you quote me on this I'll have to deny it; I won't remember because I have such a bad memory. Not only that, but my memory is *terrible*." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jun 5 15:25:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:24:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:22:42 -0500 From: jwelser (Joseph J. Welser) Message-Id: <9706052222.AA07689@maileng3> To: vectorlist Subject: Hey all Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO I just found out about the vectorlist while browsing through wiretap looking for pinouts.... In any case, I browsed through the archives and saw that some people were curious about the status of my Cinematronics Multigame Sound Board. I had been talking with Steve Ozdemir about this a couple of months back. Anyways, I haven't been able to devote much time to it in the past month, because I got involved in my first bulk buy from an operator (I got a few vector games from it!!!) In any case, that's all done now. Here are some details, for those of you who I have spoken to about this in the past, and for those that are interested. I was hoping to use "my" chip (i.e. at work -- the chip that I am supposed to be working on right now, as I write this email) as the heart of this board. I can't disclose the details about "my" chip since it hasn't been released yet, but I can direct those who are interested to existing Crystal products that it will "probably" resemble. Go to the Crystal web page (www.crystal.com) and look under products. Go first to "Digital Audio/Video" and look at the CS4922 (A DSP, basically.) Then, look under "Consumer Audio Codecs" (which is under "Consumer/Profesional Audio") and look at the CS4226 (A surround sound CODEC.) "My" chip is an enhanced version of those two. Since I am going to begin working on my Ph.D. this fall (while still working full-time) I'm going to haul ass and get this multigame sound board done before then. Since "my" chip hasn't been released yet, I will use a CS4922 and a CS4226, initially. Later, it will be replaced with "my" chip. The overall strategy is to use a DSP to generate everything it can, and then convert that stuff to analog. Maybe I'll do some continuous-time filtering at the end to make it sound more "analog." (Though, if you look at the CS4226 datasheet, it has a dynamic range around 96 dB. I don't think the quantization noise will be anywhere near audible if I build the filters right.) There is some stuff that I will have to generate analog, so I will do that too. I just bought a Rip Off cabinet (I already had a Star Castle) so I will first build a stand alone Rip Off/Star Castle sound board. This way I don't have to waste time doing a multi-game Motherboard (although it's already been done by Sean Riddle, and probably others.) Anyways, I just wanted to let everybody know what was up with this project, since I had interested a lot of people with it. I've just been busy over the past month or two, but that's let up now. Let me know if you have any question about the project or want to get involved in some way. I still need some manuals, but I would actually like to build this up so that I don't get overwhelmed trying to build an entire multigame sound board from the beginning. Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jun 5 15:30:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:30:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:29:59 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: cine sound board Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO ..interesting, I've been thinking of doing pretty much the same thing for the Sega vector games. Any chance of getting samples / development tools :-) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jun 5 20:47:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:46:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 23:42:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Dangerwil Message-ID: <970605234132_-860773572 > To: vectorlist Subject: Re: SW WG Missing vectors Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO In a message dated 97-06-05 15:41:11 EDT, you write: > Surely it is not the yoke but I suppose it could be the tube but I > really doubt it since the monitor works fine running other games. > Obvously the problem is in the AVG board of the Star Wasr set! > The monitor displays the same symptoms for ANY x-y game, and the game plays fine on two other monitors. I will take an Ohms reading of the yoke, but I think the problem is the tube. The problem almost seems like a high resistance short between the guns and grid. The red gun is also very fuzyy but not weak. I am going to chesck that resistor though! Thanks, Bill From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Jun 8 13:35:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:35:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 13:35:28 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Universal Sound Board comm protocol Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO The universal sound board has a 4k RAM for program code which is downloaded from the main processor. The CPU on the sound card is reset by toggling the msb on port 3f. The board is ready for the next sound command when a read of port 3f returns 80 (the ls bit is masked off). here are the commands sent to the board during self test in tac/scan the coin inserted sound appears to be 0x2c there appear to be continuous sounds that you have to turn off with a second command, and one-shot sounds. there is a four command sequence that is sent out before the first sound was sent. each byte sent to the USB waits for 0x80 to be returned on port 3f initial byte sequence for tac/scan 0c 04 37 38 40 (ship roar start) 10 (ship roar stop) 18 (player ship laser) 20 (player ship explosion) 28 (player ship docking) 48 (tunnel light high) 50 (stinger thrust start) 52 (stinger thrust stop) 51 (stinger laser) 52 (stinger laser stop) 54 (stinger explosion) 62 (enemy bullet) 6e (enemy ship explosion) all 4k of the sound RAM are loaded in TAC/SCAN, starting from location 0xA000 in EPROM From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: 4player eliminator schematics Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO I scanned in the adapter and wiring harness schematics along with some other things tonight, and put them up on www.spies.com in the same place that the other scans are. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jun 9 09:59:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:59:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:59:05 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: bad rom images Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO looks like the tacscan image on tant was bad. can anyone verify the eliminator 2 and 4 player sets there for mismatches? (i've taken care of star trek) i'll be updating tacscan and star trek there today. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 10 09:47:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:47:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:45:01 -0500 From: jwelser (Joseph J. Welser) Message-Id: <9706101645.AA23804@maileng3> To: vectorlist Subject: Re: cine sound board Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO > > ..interesting, I've been thinking of doing pretty much the same thing > for the Sega vector games. Any chance of getting samples / development > tools :-) > I've actually been trying to find out how to do that over the past few days, but I haven't gotten too far. It seems that we use a "different" type of distribution here. I'm sure that I can get you samples. I'm not so sure about the development tools. But let me look into it. I've been putting a bunch of hours into this project over the past week or so, and I'm hoping to have an initial MATLAB model of my version (of just the Star Castle Sound board for now) soon. Anyone who has access to MATLAB should be able to hear my emulated versions of the sounds.... I was looking through the archives of this list and I saw that there was some discussion a while back about the 3 pin analog noise generators. Did you guys ever emulate these digitally? If so, you'd save me a bit of work. I need to find out how that puppy works (i.e. its noise spectrum.) I think you guys were talking about using an LFSR, generated by a PIC to do that. Did that work? Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 10 09:56:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:56:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:56:15 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Cinematronics Masked ROM part numbers Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO I have a Cine (actually vectorbeam..) board with two masked ROMs and I was wondering if anyone has a list of the part number -> game mapping. I'm assuming it's a Space War (it has two ROMs) but I keep hoping to find a Scramble :-) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 10 10:01:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:01:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: Cinematronics Masked ROM part numbers Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:57:25 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO G'day folks, My Cinematronics history document had some part numbers that I pulled from various motherboards with two masked ROMs on them. I didn't change or add to this information, so this data should be there regardless of which version of the document you have. There should be a copy of my history document on wiretap. If not, Bill Paul was going to put a copy of it on his WWW page for Cinematronics (which has a MUCH better history doc than mine given that he's in the San Diego area and has much better contacts than I did back when I wrote up my history doc). Steven S Ozdemir sso ps - I'd guess you have a Speed Freak, but it could be a Warrior. Could you describe the wiring mods. >---------- >From: aek ] >Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 1997 11:56 AM >To: vectorlist >Subject: Cinematronics Masked ROM part numbers > > >I have a Cine (actually vectorbeam..) board with two masked ROMs and >I was wondering if anyone has a list of the part number -> game mapping. > >I'm assuming it's a Space War (it has two ROMs) but I keep hoping to >find a Scramble :-) > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 10 10:12:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:12:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:12:52 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: RE: Cinematronics Masked ROM part numbers Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO ps - I'd guess you have a Speed Freak, but it could be a Warrior. Could you describe the wiring mods. I forgot to bring in the actual numbers with me to work today (I sent mail to Zonn with them, but never heard anything back) The ROMs sit in the 1st and third slots, with one leg of each lifted and run over to the adjacent empty slots. used used Thinking about it, I think I remember the Speed Freak ROMs being set up this way on MrBill's board. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 10 10:49:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:49:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:51:47 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: cine sound board Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO > I was looking through the archives of this list and I saw that >there was some discussion a while back about the 3 pin analog noise >generators. Did you guys ever emulate these digitally? If so, you'd save >me a bit of work. I need to find out how that puppy works (i.e. its noise >spectrum.) > > I think you guys were talking about using an LFSR, generated by a >PIC to do that. Did that work? I never got around to trying any of it. I dunno if Zonn did or not? I decided to ignore the sound boards for now in favor of trying to crank out the main multi-game daughtercard in short order. (It's going well by the way, except that OrCAD Layout Plus doesn't want to output the via pads on the PCB... Grrrr...) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 10 11:23:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:23:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: Cinematronics Masked ROM part numbers Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:18:48 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO G'day folks, Based on your description of a single pin pulled out of the socket, I'd guess Warrior based on my experience. However, I haven't had as much exposure to Speed Freak as I'd like. Get the part number off of the mother board.....if it has a pac-man like symbol on it (after the 1081?), then you have a later revision of the Vectorbeam motherboard and I can guarantee it's a Warrior. Steven S Ozdemir sso ps - I think you should see the JMI interrupt wiring mod added across the top of the board for Warrior. pps - All Cinematronics (Star Hawk, Space Wars) and Vectorbeam (Warrior, Speed Freak and Space Wars) games have their two masked ROMS configured like you describe. As I rememberf Tail Gunner has four masked ROMs? >---------- >From: aek ] >Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 1997 12:12 PM >To: vectorlist >Subject: RE: Cinematronics Masked ROM part numbers > >ps - I'd guess you have a Speed Freak, but it could be a Warrior. Could >you describe the wiring mods. > >I forgot to bring in the actual numbers with me to work today (I sent mail >to Zonn with them, but never heard anything back) > >The ROMs sit in the 1st and third slots, with one leg of each lifted and >run over to the adjacent empty slots. > >used used > >Thinking about it, I think I remember the Speed Freak ROMs being set up >this way on MrBill's board. > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 10 11:29:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:29:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 97 11:28 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970610112442.2317cc22@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist From: Zonn Subject: RE: Cinematronics Masked ROM part numbers Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO Hi guys! I've been on vacation for the last 10 days roaming in and around the canyon lands in Utah. Great country! So sorry I didn't get back with you Al! I've seen a couple of different boards use the "solder wire to the other socket" approach. There mostly on the older games (pre- Star Castle), and seem to have been done that way simply because the board contained no sockets in the place where the mask parts should have been placed. The memory mapping of the C-CPU is a little strange. The 2nd and 4th sockets from left are the low addresses when using normal EPROM / PROM devices. The memory map then continues to the 1st and 3rd sockets. When Vectorbeam re-merged with Cinematronics, Cinematronics got a "shitload" of old Vectorbeam boards -- according to a technician that worked there at the time. I'm guessing that the Vectorbeam boards where all Space War or Speedfreak boards and were wave soldered with only the 1st and 3rd sockets intact. When you have a PROM masked for you, you can choose to have the select lines inverted from the normal EPROM usage, and this is what vectorbeam did. Therefore since the only difference between the 1st and 3rd sockets and the 2nd and 4th sockets are the inverted select lines, Vectorbeam masked parts plug into the 1st and 3rd socket even though they are addressed lower in memory. Most of the Cinematronics masked parts seemed to have been masked using a normal EPROM select line, and plugged into sockets 2 and 4. So Cinematronics dilema was that they "inherited" a bunch of Vectorbeam boards with sockets only in the 1st and 3rd position, yet their mask parts were designed for the 2nd and 4th position. The choice is to solderwick all the plated through holes to allow the addition of a socket (a pain), or simply to use the supplied sockets, bending up the selection pin on their masked parts and solder a jumper to the proper pin on the adjacent socket (much easier). The Sundance mask ROMs were designed to plug into the 1st and 3rd sockets and were 4k parts that were setup to be plugged into a standard 2k socket CPU card which you can do by rearranging a couple of Address/Selection lines and inverting their logic levels -- something you can do with mask parts. That's why the Sundance PROMs required a special convertor to read them. The boards I've seen to date that used masked parts are: Space War Tailgunner II Sundance Starhawk Boards I've heard of using them, but haven't on the ones I've seen: Tailgunner Space Wars Warrior I don't have the numbers for any of these here at work, and won't be able to get them until this weekend. So none of this answer the question of whether your board is a Vectorbeam scramble. If the board says "Vectorbeam" and the socketed parts are in the 1st and 3rd locations chances are *real* good it's a Space War though there's a slim chance it's a Speedfreak. If the parts are soldered in you can be 99.9% sure it's a Space war. Have you plugged it into a Star Castle or something (do you have a Star Castle or something to plug it into?) Since they plug into the 1st and 3rd sockets with jumpers to the 2nd and 4th they should look like normal parts (if they're 2k parts), you could try reading them and running them with CINEMU. If there 4k parts they're sometimes a little harder to read, though you should be able to read 2k of them and compare them to what's on the net. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 10 11:38:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:38:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:36:17 -0500 From: jwelser (Joseph J. Welser) Message-Id: <9706101836.AA24536@maileng3> To: vectorlist Subject: Re: cine sound board Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO > > I was looking through the archives of this list and I saw that > >there was some discussion a while back about the 3 pin analog noise > >generators. Did you guys ever emulate these digitally? If so, you'd save > >me a bit of work. I need to find out how that puppy works (i.e. its noise > >spectrum.) > > > > I think you guys were talking about using an LFSR, generated by a > >PIC to do that. Did that work? > > I never got around to trying any of it. I dunno if Zonn did or not? I > decided to ignore the sound boards for now in favor of trying to crank out > the main multi-game daughtercard in short order. (It's going well by the > way, except that OrCAD Layout Plus doesn't want to output the via pads on > the PCB... Grrrr...) Have any of you been able to find a datasheet for one? The part number is an S2688. Cinematronics used AMI parts. I found a link that took me to a company called AMS (Austria MicroSystems or something like that,) but they didn't have any design resources (i.e. datasheets.) I guess if worse comes to worse, I can just sample it and take an FFT. I wonder if it's actually "white" noise. I think these use leaky zener junctions to generate the noise. I suppose this would be a whole lot more white than an LFSR. When I come up with something, I'll let you guys know, since it looks like eventually, others will need this sort of thing... Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 10 11:40:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:40:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 97 11:39 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970610113547.0d97ae42@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist From: Zonn Subject: Re: cine sound board Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO At 11:45 AM 6/10/97 -0500, you wrote: >> >> ..interesting, I've been thinking of doing pretty much the same thing >> for the Sega vector games. Any chance of getting samples / development >> tools :-) >> > > I've actually been trying to find out how to do that over the past few days, but I haven't gotten too far. It seems that we use a "different" type of distribution here. > > I'm sure that I can get you samples. I'm not so sure about the development tools. But let me look into it. > > I've been putting a bunch of hours into this project over the past week or so, and I'm hoping to have an initial MATLAB model of my version (of just the Star Castle Sound board for now) soon. Anyone who has access to MATLAB should be able to hear my emulated versions of the sounds.... > > I was looking through the archives of this list and I saw that there was some discussion a while back about the 3 pin analog noise generators. Did you guys ever emulate these digitally? If so, you'd save me a bit of work. I need to find out how that puppy works (i.e. its noise spectrum.) > > I think you guys were talking about using an LFSR, generated by a PIC to do that. Did that work? I haven't done it with a PIC (but have with a 6800, 6809, Z-80 and a 8088), the technique works fine. It's a very simple "shift, rearrange some bits, XOR" algorithm. Works just like the schematic on one of those Cinematronics games (I can't remember which games used discreet components to implement the shift register / noise generator. I thought Star Castle did.) It's drawback is the noise generated doesn't have a lot of low end component. It works great for gunshots, but lacks real low end rumble on ship explosions. So for the games that used the noisy semiconductor approach (Space War, Sundance, Tailgunner(?), I think I'm missing one) the explosions won't sound nearly as cool. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 10 12:02:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:02:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:00:13 -0500 From: jwelser (Joseph J. Welser) Message-Id: <9706101900.AA24738@maileng3> To: vectorlist Subject: Re: cine sound board Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO > At 11:45 AM 6/10/97 -0500, you wrote: > > > > I think you guys were talking about using an LFSR, generated by a PIC to > do that. Did that work? > > I haven't done it with a PIC (but have with a 6800, 6809, Z-80 and a 8088), > the technique works fine. It's a very simple "shift, rearrange some bits, > XOR" algorithm. Works just like the schematic on one of those Cinematronics > games (I can't remember which games used discreet components to implement > the shift register / noise generator. I thought Star Castle did.) Star Castle doesn't. It uses a 3-pin noise generator to generate the "NOISE" signal. It sounds like you used a basic LFSR. The output of that LFSR is colored noise (as you found out.) You can shape that noise by doing some other stuff. By putting a Low-Pass filter on it's output (and taking a simple average) you can make that noise have a Normal distribution. Your LPF determines the mean and variance of that distribution. This LPF actually isn't trivial (if you want a good normal distribution) it needs to be somewhere around 10th and 20th order (I'm not sure what your guys' backgrounds are, but if you're familiar with the Central Limit Theorem from Probability, it says that the sum of N independent random distributions is always Normally distributed as N gets large. What's large? About 20 -- Implying that you need a 20th order filter, give or take....) > It's drawback is the noise generated doesn't have a lot of low end > component. It works great for gunshots, but lacks real low end rumble on > ship explosions. > > So for the games that used the noisy semiconductor approach (Space War, > Sundance, Tailgunner(?), I think I'm missing one) the explosions won't sound > nearly as cool. > > -Zonn > Anyways, let me knmow if any of you guys have any info on that noise generator... Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 10 12:36:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:36:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199706101932.PAA08847 > From: "Fish, David" To: vectorlist Subject: RE: cine sound board Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:33:16 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO Zonn wrote: >So for the games that used the noisy semiconductor approach (Space War, >Sundance, Tailgunner(?), I think I'm missing one) the explosions won't sound >nearly as cool. Rip Off is the one your forgetting. Dave From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 10 13:41:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:41:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: Cinematronics Masked ROM part numbers To: vectorlist Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:05:25 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970610112442.2317cc22@pop3.concentric.net> from "Zonn" at Jun 10, 97 11:28:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <339db3860.12d0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 188 Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO > > Hi guys! > > I've been on vacation for the last 10 days roaming in and around the canyon > lands in Utah. Great country! And you didn't come north to Salt Lake and say "Hi"? Kurt From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 10 14:08:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:08:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 97 14:07 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970610140404.0eb7936c@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist From: Zonn Subject: Re: Cinematronics Masked ROM part numbers Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO At 02:05 PM 6/10/97 -0600, you wrote: >> >> Hi guys! >> >> I've been on vacation for the last 10 days roaming in and around the canyon >> lands in Utah. Great country! > >And you didn't come north to Salt Lake and say "Hi"? Dang! Downright unfriendly of me huh? I'll just have to say it from here (So. Cal.) "HI!" I was as close as 300 miles to Salt Lake at one time, much of the time was spent on dirt roads. Since I drove from the Northern San Diego Area to Utah on I15 I passed through Nevada (Las Vegas), Southern Arizona, as well as Utah. So "HI" to all others I blew by on my way to look at big towering blocks of dirt! :^) -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 10 21:19:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:19:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <339E26A4.3104 > Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:16:36 -0600 From: Jess Askey X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO Al Kossow wrote: > > I read the mystery proms in tonight. it's possible that > they are actually 4k, but I was only able to read data > from the first 2k so i've included it here. It doesn't > appear to match any ROM that I have, so I thought maybe > someone else could look at it. It has a '79 Cine copyright Did I miss the original posting about where you found these ROM's? Could you please tell the story again. Thanks. Me so slow. :-) Jess From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jun 10 21:29:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:29:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:29:38 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO Did I miss the original posting about where you found these ROM's? Could you please tell the story again. Thanks. Me so slow. :-) Jess they were on a Vectorbeam board that I picked up. There are two EPROMs on the board, with one leg jumpered over to the adjacent unused ROM sockets. From what Zonn said, they would have been used after the Cine / Vectorbeam remerger by Cine. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jun 11 08:51:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:51:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199706111558.LAA07968 > Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:46:44 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Ed Henciak "Re: G80 speech board" (May 5, 6:11pm) References: <199705052236.SAA03863 > X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: G80 speech board Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO On May 5, 6:11pm, Ed Henciak wrote: > Subject: Re: G80 speech board > Hello, > > I was just going over Clay's message about speech boards. I have 2 Star > Trek sets...each, I believe, different in the socket where the 'Orator, is > located... > > On board labeled 800-3308 A, there is a chip in the 'Orator' socket > with the number 783-4043-002. The logo on the chip looks like this... > > ----------- > | | > | | > | ---- | > | | | > | | | > ----------- > > next to this 'GI...and it is that rectangular, unlike the orator's "curvy" > GI... is the number 8048 CCA and TAIWAN. I found a few of these on some of my Speech boards. It seems to be the less common of the two. > On my other board, which has a handwritten 800-3308 REV D, the chip > clearly says SPO250 ORATOR. > > and the logo is clearly a GI with the numbers 8136 CCA TAIWAN > > I'd love to let you guys know if there is any difference in sounds, etc., I haven't found any sound differences whatsoever. Maybe Al should put a search out for the other chip, also. > but I am having one hell of a time getting my monitor to work, and there > is much static in the audio (my boards are working though). If I can wire > up some mock coin mechanisms, I'll let you know how sounds compare. My > monitor currently is displayin a bright dot in the center with some nice, > small, blue squigglies!! Anyway, if it would help to donate the > board/chip to a Sega Multigame cause, let me know...just return it when > finished!!! Oh, the number of EEPROMS are the same on Star Trek's > speech...3. And one more thing I just noticed...on the board I have > without the ORATOR, there is a national semiconductor 8039 (exact numbers > are 014C INS8039N-6 /P8039-6)...on the board with the ORATOR there is > an Intel P8035HL L2468201. Hope this helps!!! Thanks I don't know if the 8035 or 8039 matters. I've been using the 8035s exclusively to repair these boards. The 8039 has been found on boards with the ORATOR, so I don't think there is a difference (I think we may have already covered this...) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jun 11 09:45:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:45:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 97 09:44 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970611094051.2bc76c68@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist From: Zonn Subject: Re: i'm a spaz Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO At 09:42 PM 6/10/97 -0700, you wrote: > >I actually READ Steve's Cine FAQ, and It's obvious that the board >is for a Warrior. It does appear that -02 that I sent out is bad >-01 matches warrior.p7. > >Somehow I didn't think there was a mystery Cine game still missing... Too bad, I was hoping for "Oops!" -- extremely unlikely that this games was ever masked into a part, but then again I occasionally buy a lotto ticket and the chances of winning that are lower, I'm sure. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jun 11 09:48:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:48:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 97 09:47 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970611094351.2bc77ab6@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist From: Zonn Subject: RE: cine sound board Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO At 03:33 PM 6/10/97 -0400, you wrote: >Zonn wrote: >>So for the games that used the noisy semiconductor approach (Space War, >>Sundance, Tailgunner(?), I think I'm missing one) the explosions won't >sound >>nearly as cool. > >Rip Off is the one your forgetting. I just looked at the RipOff schematic last night and it uses the 8 pin noise generator: S2688. I don't have a schematic or sound board for Warrior, maybe it uses a noisy semiconductor... -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jun 11 10:01:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:00:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: i'm a spaz To: vectorlist Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:53:43 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970611094051.2bc76c68@pop3.concentric.net> from "Zonn" at Jun 11, 97 09:44:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <339ee6270.3d56 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 728 Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO > >I actually READ Steve's Cine FAQ, and It's obvious that the board > >is for a Warrior. It does appear that -02 that I sent out is bad > >-01 matches warrior.p7. > > > >Somehow I didn't think there was a mystery Cine game still missing... > > Too bad, I was hoping for "Oops!" -- extremely unlikely that this games was > ever masked into a part, but then again I occasionally buy a lotto ticket > and the chances of winning that are lower, I'm sure. Did anybody every track down QB3 from Rock-Ola? Kurt /* * This version of Kurt Mahan is currently being evaluated. Words he speaks * are those of him only and not those of Novell or anybody else. * * Novell Java Development * * Kurt Mahan * kmahan */ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jun 11 10:16:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:16:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: cine sound board To: vectorlist Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:09:21 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970611094351.2bc77ab6@pop3.concentric.net> from "Zonn" at Jun 11, 97 09:47:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <339ee9d20.3dd8 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 889 Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO > At 03:33 PM 6/10/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Zonn wrote: > >>So for the games that used the noisy semiconductor approach (Space War, > >>Sundance, Tailgunner(?), I think I'm missing one) the explosions won't > >sound > >>nearly as cool. > > > >Rip Off is the one your forgetting. > > I just looked at the RipOff schematic last night and it uses the 8 pin noise > generator: S2688. > > I don't have a schematic or sound board for Warrior, maybe it uses a noisy > semiconductor... I've got the schematics for Warrior. I'll dupe sets (no charge) for people on this mailing list that want them. Send me some email with your snail mail address (kmahan ). Kurt /* * This version of Kurt Mahan is currently being evaluated. Words he speaks * are those of him only and not those of Novell or anybody else. * * Novell Java Development * * Kurt Mahan * kmahan */ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jun 11 10:38:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:38:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 97 10:37 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970611103351.0e1733c2@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist From: Zonn Subject: Re: cine sound board Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO At 02:00 PM 6/10/97 -0500, you wrote: > It sounds like you used a basic LFSR. The output of that LFSR is colored noise (as you found out.) You can shape that noise by doing some other stuff. By putting a Low-Pass filter on it's output (and taking a simple average) you can make that noise have a Normal distribution. Your LPF determines the mean and variance of that distribution. This LPF actually isn't trivial (if you want a good normal distribution) it needs to be somewhere around 10th and 20th order (I'm not sure what your guys' backgrounds are, but if you're familiar with the Central Limit Theorem from Probability, it says that the sum of N independent random distributions is always Normally distributed as N gets large. What's large? About 20 -- Implying that you need a 20th order filter, give or take....) Since the goal is not to generate Normally Distributed random numbers, but to recreate the sounds used in Cinematronics games, I don't think you going to need a 20th order filter. Cinematronics certainly didn't use one in Solar Quest, and that game definitely used the Shift register approach in generating it's noise source. > Anyways, let me knmow if any of you guys have any info on that noise generator... I've seen the S2688 noise generator replaced with a MM5586 (I think that's right) which was a National Semiconductor chip. At one time (many years ago) I had the data sheet for one of these two parts (I can't remember which, maybe none of the above), and I remember it being a 17 bit shift register with feedback. I believe there was also a noisy semiconductor noise generator available at the same time, and I don't remember which parts are which. (Maybe the "Semiconductor" part needed +/- voltages?) Solar Quest generates its noise with discreet components using the shift register technique. In hardware you implement a shift register, then through a few XOR gates you tap into some of the registers outputs to create a value that is shifted back into the shift registers input bit. In software the technique is to shift the register to the left, shifting in a zero on the right. If value shifted out is a zero, you're done. If the value shifted out is a one, then XOR the register with a mask. This technique was used a lot to generate random numbers on small CPUs where a multiply would take too much time. A proper mask needs to be found that allows 2^n-1 values before repeating itself. The easiest way to find this is to load the register with the value '1', then run the generator and count how many values are generated before '1' appears again. Just keep trying masks until one allows the full 2^n-1 values to be generated. In hardware or software the value of '0' will lock up the random number generator and must be avoided. Solar Quest has hardware to check for this and restart the generator if a zero is detected. Any of the pins (or register bits) can be tapped as the noise source, usually it's the value being shifted out that's used. There are also simple techniques for using the random number generator to generate "Brown" noise, along with the more standard "White" and "Pink" noises. "Brown" noise is has a much higher low frequency content and makes for cool Thunder and Explosion effects. After passing the semiconductor noise generators through a few stages of low pass filtering, the outputs of the explosions, used by Cinematronics, more resemble "Brown" noise than any of the other two types. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jun 11 11:00:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:00:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: 10 Jun 1997 13:58 EDT To: vectorlist From: "Gregg Woodcock" Subject: RE: Cinematronics Masked ROM part numbers Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO In message "RE: Cinematronics Masked ROM part numbers", you write: >ps - I'd guess you have a Speed Freak, but it could be a Warrior. Could >you describe the wiring mods. > >I forgot to bring in the actual numbers with me to work today (I sent mail >to Zonn with them, but never heard anything back) > >The ROMs sit in the 1st and third slots, with one leg of each lifted and >run over to the adjacent empty slots. > >used used > >Thinking about it, I think I remember the Speed Freak ROMs being set up >this way on MrBill's board. Those are probably Tailgunner II ROMs. Some game boards use 2 PROMs instead of the normal 4 PROM setup. These 4K masked PROMs were mistakenly manufatured with the 2K blocks reversed (either that or they put the ROM sockets in the wrong pair of spots)!!! To fix this, they lifted the 2K address leg of each PROM so that it didn't go in the socket and jumpered it to the ROM spot to the left which uses an inverted signal for that line. This jumper easily comes loose so the best solution is to pull the PROMs, read them in, swap the 2K blocks and burn them into a new EPROM and do away with the address hack altogether. -- THANX...Gregg day 214.684.7380 night UNLIST/PUBL TEXAS NOT CANADA! woodcock or woodcock@dfwmm.net *CLASSIC VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR BUY/SELL/TRADE NON-COMPUTER (ARCADE/HOME)* "If you quote me on this I'll have to deny it; I won't remember because I have such a bad memory. Not only that, but my memory is *terrible*." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jun 11 11:11:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:10:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:08:40 -0500 From: jwelser (Joseph J. Welser) Message-Id: <9706111808.AA29678@maileng3> To: vectorlist Subject: Re: cine sound board Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO > At 02:00 PM 6/10/97 -0500, you wrote: > > Since the goal is not to generate Normally Distributed random numbers, but > to recreate the sounds used in Cinematronics games, I don't think you going > to need a 20th order filter. Cinematronics certainly didn't use one in > Solar Quest, and that game definitely used the Shift register approach in > generating it's noise source. Ahhh, but it is. Your point was that the noise from your LFSR didn't have enough of a low-frequency component. If you want your noise to have more of a low frequency content, you want the mean of your normally distributed sum to be low. There is probably going to be SOME low frequency component from your LFSR generated noise. Add some gain to the passband of your filter, and you boost the low frequency component. Does that make sense? (BTW: 20th order filters, if they are, indeed, necessary aren't THAT bad to do digitally. An analog 20th order filter, though, must be HELL. Typically, the ones on the Cineamtronics Sound boards aren't any higher than 3rd order.) I really don't care that the noise is normally generated, but Normal distributions are the easiest to control in terms of their means and variances. I DO care about the mean value of that noise if I want it to have a certain content. > > Anyways, let me know if any of you guys have any info on that noise > generator... > > I've seen the S2688 noise generator replaced with a MM5586 (I think that's > right) which was a National Semiconductor chip. At one time (many years > ago) I had the data sheet for one of these two parts (I can't remember > which, maybe none of the above), and I remember it being a 17 bit shift > register with feedback. I believe there was also a noisy semiconductor > noise generator available at the same time, and I don't remember which parts > are which. (Maybe the "Semiconductor" part needed +/- voltages?) > > Solar Quest generates its noise with discreet components using the shift > register technique. In hardware you implement a shift register, then > through a few XOR gates you tap into some of the registers outputs to create > a value that is shifted back into the shift registers input bit. Right, in Signal Processing, this is called an LFSR (Linear Feedback Shift Register.) They're used in a lot of the stuff I work with so I'm pretty familiar with their signal processing usage. I think we're talking about the same thing here. I'm sure that there are techniques to get "Brown" noise out of an LFSR, one of which might be what I described above. Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jun 11 13:00:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:00:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: i'm a spaz Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:56:10 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO G'day, Chris Hanks(?), luna@teleport, was the person who suspected QB3 existed. I think he found a flyer or something. Also, Rocket Racer is another Rockola game on the Cinematronics platform that may exist. Steven S Ozdemir sso ps - If anyone ever makes a multigame for Cinematronics, a few slots should be left empty in the menu for these mystery games. >---------- >From: Kurt Mahan[SMTP:kmahan ] >Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 1997 12:53 PM >To: vectorlist >Subject: Re: i'm a spaz > >> >I actually READ Steve's Cine FAQ, and It's obvious that the board >> >is for a Warrior. It does appear that -02 that I sent out is bad >> >-01 matches warrior.p7. >> > >> >Somehow I didn't think there was a mystery Cine game still missing... >> >> Too bad, I was hoping for "Oops!" -- extremely unlikely that this games was >> ever masked into a part, but then again I occasionally buy a lotto ticket >> and the chances of winning that are lower, I'm sure. > >Did anybody every track down QB3 from Rock-Ola? > >Kurt > >/* > * This version of Kurt Mahan is currently being evaluated. Words he speaks > * are those of him only and not those of Novell or anybody else. > * > * Novell Java Development > * > * Kurt Mahan > * kmahan > */ > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jun 11 13:03:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:03:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:02:57 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: cine multigame Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO SteveO said: ps - If anyone ever makes a multigame for Cinematronics, a few slots should be left empty in the menu for these mystery games. ..and a slot or two for new games (assuming anyone is crazy enough to try to write a new Cine game!) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jun 11 13:08:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:08:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Fish, David" To: "vectorlist > Subject: QB3 ??? Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:05:34 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO >Steve O wrote: >>Chris Hanks(?), luna@teleport, was the person who suspected QB3 existed. >> I think he found a flyer or something. Also, Rocket Racer is another >>Rockola game on the Cinematronics platform that may exist. Aside from the name, QB3, what else is known about this game? I've heard people mention the name but nothing more. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jun 11 13:33:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:33:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 97 13:32 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970611132854.0e171fe8@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist From: Zonn Subject: Re: cine sound board Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO At 01:08 PM 6/11/97 -0500, you wrote: >> At 02:00 PM 6/10/97 -0500, you wrote: >> >> Since the goal is not to generate Normally Distributed random numbers, but >> to recreate the sounds used in Cinematronics games, I don't think you going >> to need a 20th order filter. Cinematronics certainly didn't use one in >> Solar Quest, and that game definitely used the Shift register approach in >> generating it's noise source. > > Ahhh, but it is. Your point was that the noise from your LFSR didn't have enough of a low-frequency component. If you want your noise to have more of a low frequency content, you want the mean of your normally distributed sum to be low. There is probably going to be SOME low frequency component from your LFSR generated noise. Add some gain to the passband of your filter, and you boost the low frequency component. Does that make sense? (BTW: 20th order filters, if they are, indeed, necessary aren't THAT bad to do digitally. An analog 20th order filter, though, must be HELL. Typically, the ones on the Cineamtronics Sound boards aren't any higher than 3rd order.) > > I really don't care that the noise is normally generated, but Normal distributions are the easiest to control in terms of their means and variances. I DO care about the mean value of that noise if I want it to have a certain content. Actually my point was: Since the Cinematronics games that use a shift registers approach (Solar Quest for sure) used only a LFSR and a 3rd order filter, you should be able to recreate that sound with a LFSR and a 3rd order filter. The complaint about the LSFR not having enough Low end applies to all LSFRs, not just any implementation I've come up with (just listen to the scratchy sounds of the Pokey explosions. The "Thrust" sound used to fly through a Tempest tube to the next level sounds more like a credit card on a zipper than any kind of engine rumble -- which might be by design, but the author had little choice, being stuck with a Pokey. > >> > Anyways, let me know if any of you guys have any info on that noise >> generator... >> >> I've seen the S2688 noise generator replaced with a MM5586 (I think that's >> right) which was a National Semiconductor chip. At one time (many years >> ago) I had the data sheet for one of these two parts (I can't remember >> which, maybe none of the above), and I remember it being a 17 bit shift >> register with feedback. I believe there was also a noisy semiconductor >> noise generator available at the same time, and I don't remember which parts >> are which. (Maybe the "Semiconductor" part needed +/- voltages?) >> >> Solar Quest generates its noise with discreet components using the shift >> register technique. In hardware you implement a shift register, then >> through a few XOR gates you tap into some of the registers outputs to create >> a value that is shifted back into the shift registers input bit. > > Right, in Signal Processing, this is called an LFSR (Linear Feedback Shift Register.) They're used in a lot of the stuff I work with so I'm pretty familiar with their signal processing usage. > > I think we're talking about the same thing here. I'm sure that there are techniques to get "Brown" noise out of an LFSR, one of which might be what I described above. A 20th order lowpass filter will probably work fine. The CPU's I've used in the past would come to a screaching halt if any type of floating point were used (or even too many fixed point operations). Instead of using the values of the random number generator as is (which more closely mirrors that of "white" noise) and then trying to digitally filter them, I've used a few bits of the random numbers generated as deltas to the previous "noise" value. Ex: If you took only the lower four bits the random number and treated it as a 4 bit signed number, the most your new noise value would be changed from the previous one is by +/-7 (assuming you treat -8 as a zero, which you must do). You end up with a low level high frequency noise riding on a larger low frequency component. You have to play with clock rates, and which bits (and how many) you use, you also have to give it at little bit of history so that it wants to continue heading in the direction it was previously heading, otherwise you can end up with nothing but a +/- 7 bit white noise source. But given a little experimentation you can get it sounding pretty nice. Something like this might actually be being done to some extent inside the S2688 noise generators -- we really do need a data sheet for this part. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jun 11 13:35:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:35:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: