From owner-vectorlist Sun May 3 11:03:50 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 3 May 1998 11:03:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 13:02:02 -0500 (CDT) From: sickgear To: vectorlist Message-Id: <19985310595141 > Subject: some Tempest/Asteroids Deluxe PCBs 4 u. X-Mailer: NETCOMplete v3.20, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: sickgear Hi All, I got a bunch o' boards from an op, but I don't need any of them... thought I'd give the lovely and talented vectorlist bunch first shot at them :-) 5 tempest main boards... 3 appear complete, one is missing Rom 3 and the big IC by the ROMs, another is missing ROM 3. 2 tempest aux boards... one complete, one missing all of the 8136/8123s. One interconnect cable for main/aux tempest boards. Two Asteroids Deluxe boards... one is complete, the other is missing some ROMs and the processor, and the DIP switch is destroyed. I haven't tested them, but I assume that at least some of them (if not all) aren't working... one of the Tempest boards is tagged "no video". They are all pretty dirty, they've been sitting in a warehouse for years. If you need some/all of 'em, make me an offer. Incidentally, I am looking for a Cinematronics deflection board for Star Castle (or someone who'd like to fix mine), an Atari Star Wars wiring harness/power supply/marquee, and someone who'll burn me a rom or two. Thanks, Derek sickgear From owner-vectorlist Sun May 3 21:55:50 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 3 May 1998 21:55:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 22:59:01 -0600 To: vectorlist From: jeffh (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: some Tempest/Asteroids Deluxe PCBs 4 u. Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: jeffh (Jeff Hendrix) I'm interested in your complete asteroids deluxe board. I'm not sure what to offer, but I can burn ROMs for you. >Hi All, > >I got a bunch o' boards from an op, but I don't need any of them... >thought I'd give the lovely >and talented vectorlist bunch first shot at them :-) > >5 tempest main boards... 3 appear complete, one is missing Rom 3 and the >big IC by the ROMs, >another is missing ROM 3. > >2 tempest aux boards... one complete, one missing all of the 8136/8123s. > >One interconnect cable for main/aux tempest boards. > >Two Asteroids Deluxe boards... one is complete, the other is missing some >ROMs and the >processor, and the DIP switch is destroyed. > >I haven't tested them, but I assume that at least some of them (if not >all) aren't working... >one of the Tempest boards is tagged "no video". They are all pretty >dirty, they've been sitting >in a warehouse for years. > >If you need some/all of 'em, make me an offer. Incidentally, I am looking >for a Cinematronics >deflection board for Star Castle (or someone who'd like to fix mine), an >Atari Star Wars wiring >harness/power supply/marquee, and someone who'll burn me a rom or two. > >Thanks, > >Derek >sickgear jeffh Buy/Sell/Trade Classic Video Arcade Games www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist Mon May 4 13:19:22 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 4 May 1998 13:17:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 15:15:58 -0500 (CDT) From: sickgear To: vectorlist Message-Id: <1998541313426334 > Subject: Tempest/Asteroids deluxe stuff> GONE! X-Mailer: NETCOMplete v3.20, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: sickgear Hi All, Thanks for all the replies! There's a lot for me to try to answer directly, but I just wanted to let you all know that the tempest/asteroids deluxe boards are sold. Thanks, Derek sickgear From owner-vectorlist Mon May 11 13:17:09 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 11 May 1998 13:17:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980511131307.007dc8c0@u1.netgate.net> X-Sender: grigsby@u1.netgate.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 13:13:07 -0700 To: vectorlist From: The Grigsbeast Subject: Re: Prototype games In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: The Grigsbeast >They are both jamma boards, and they have a copy right date on the PCB of >1992. One is called "arcade classics" and it has 2 games on it. One is >missle command and the other centipede. They are complete rewrites and they >use a 68000 processor. This board needs 2 trackballs. I wasn't that impressed (I worked at Atari when they made it). They do play very faithfully, though. >The other board contains a game called "sparkz" This was actually a moderately fun (though cheesy) Tetris-type game. Blocks containing pipes in various configurations fell from the sky and stacked where they hit. If you connected both sides of the screen the pipe disappeared. Shouldn't be hard to get going, at least. // grigs From owner-vectorlist Mon May 11 13:27:39 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 11 May 1998 13:27:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 13:25:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805112025.NAA16410 > From: Andrew Wilson To: vectorlist CC: vectorlist In-reply-to: >One is called "arcade classics" and it has 2 games on it. One is >missle command and the other centipede. They are complete rewrites and they >use a 68000 processor. This board needs 2 trackballs. Sounds alot like the other "arcade classics" PCBs I've seen (they were auctioning one on eBay last week, and it went for like $150, as I recall). I've played some of these games at the Seattle Gameworks (two machines with DigDug, RallyX, PacMan, and Arkanoid), and they were not much improvement from the originals aside from the simultaneous 2-player mode. I'd probably buy one just for the fun of 2-player PacMan, tho... I also have to wonder if they ever field-tested these things - I was able to play for like 20 minutes per credit on RallyX and PacMan, which makes for pretty low income for operators ;) Drew From owner-vectorlist Mon May 11 16:26:46 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 11 May 1998 16:26:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: Display Corrector... Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:24:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill > Long time no talk. I'm new to the vectorlist and your post has > peaked my curiousity... I have a few questions about it - if you have > a few minutes could you clear up a few of them for me?? > I was going to just reply to Tom directly, but I figured there might be other people new to the list... > Are you saying here that you'll be able to hook up a WG XY monitor to > other games such as Sega XY games? (In place of that electrohome > monitor?) How about the b/w cinematronics games - like space war? ;^) > The Display Corrector takes the X and Y deflections signals from a vector game (presumably Major Havoc or Star Wars, but it should work on anything) and applies a mathematical "correction factor" to the X output to help correct the "pincushion" effect seen when running Star Wars (or MH) on a Wells Gardner monitor. The same effect is present in Sega Vector games when running on WG monitors. There's a couple other people working on Cinematronics->WG display adapters. I haven't tried yet, but might give it a go if someone else doesn't come up with a pre-packaged solution. ;-) The display corrector seems to make a big difference when running Star Wars on a Wells Gardner monitor. It's subtle, but makes the display as a whole much more "pleasing". It's tough to describe. I think TravisH and ChrisH have seen it running on my machine-- maybe they can describe it better... I did a little web-page about it a long while back: http://www.e-volve.net/~clay/display.html > Will you be notifing the maillist when these are finished? > Yep, I'll fire off a little blurb about it. -Clay From owner-vectorlist Mon May 11 17:12:11 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 11 May 1998 17:11:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <19980512001054.23525.qmail > X-Originating-IP: [207.211.189.34] From: "Tom Cloud" To: vectorlist Subject: RE: Display Corrector... Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 17:10:52 PDT Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: "Tom Cloud" Hi Clay...me again...the vector pest! Cool. Thanks for the info. I'll be looking for one when you're done. So, is it true that there is a way to hook Sega vector games up to a wells monitor? Is it written up somewhere? I'm asking as I'm about to become the owner of a Star Trek conversion and I'm sure somewhere along the way, the electrohome monitor is going to die - it seems unavoidable from all I've read about these monitors so I'm just trying to gather information that will assist me in making sure this game lives on beyond it's monitor. (Man! is that a run on sentance or what??) Anyway, any info on performing this switch would be appreciated. Thanks! TTYL Tom Cloud >From owner-vectorlist Mon May 11 16:30:12 1998 >Received: by goonsquad.spies.com > via sendmail with stdio > id > for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 11 May 1998 16:26:09 -0700 (PDT) > (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) >Message-ID: >From: Clay Cowgill >To: "'vectorlist > >Subject: RE: Display Corrector... >Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:24:10 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) >Content-Type: text/plain >Sender: owner-vectorlist >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: vectorlist >CC: Clay Cowgill > >> Long time no talk. I'm new to the vectorlist and your post has >> peaked my curiousity... I have a few questions about it - if you have >> a few minutes could you clear up a few of them for me?? >> >I was going to just reply to Tom directly, but I figured there might be >other people new to the list... > >> Are you saying here that you'll be able to hook up a WG XY monitor to >> other games such as Sega XY games? (In place of that electrohome >> monitor?) How about the b/w cinematronics games - like space war? ;^) >> >The Display Corrector takes the X and Y deflections signals from a >vector game (presumably Major Havoc or Star Wars, but it should work on >anything) and applies a mathematical "correction factor" to the X output >to help correct the "pincushion" effect seen when running Star Wars (or >MH) on a Wells Gardner monitor. The same effect is present in Sega >Vector games when running on WG monitors. > >There's a couple other people working on Cinematronics->WG display >adapters. I haven't tried yet, but might give it a go if someone else >doesn't come up with a pre-packaged solution. ;-) > >The display corrector seems to make a big difference when running Star >Wars on a Wells Gardner monitor. It's subtle, but makes the display as >a whole much more "pleasing". It's tough to describe. I think TravisH >and ChrisH have seen it running on my machine-- maybe they can describe >it better... > >I did a little web-page about it a long while back: > >http://www.e-volve.net/~clay/display.html > >> Will you be notifing the maillist when these are finished? >> >Yep, I'll fire off a little blurb about it. > >-Clay > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-vectorlist Mon May 11 18:06:27 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 11 May 1998 18:05:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <35579FE4.BE1B2FF7 > Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 21:03:32 -0400 From: Kev X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Prototype games References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Kev Jeff Hendrix wrote: > I know this isn't vector related, but this group seems to be interested in > these kinds of things. > I just picked up 2 prototype boards from an ex-atari employee. > They are both jamma boards, and they have a copy right date on the PCB of > 1992. One is called "arcade classics" and it has 2 games on it. One is > missle command and the other centipede. They are complete rewrites and they > use a 68000 processor. This board needs 2 trackballs. > The other board contains a game called "sparkz" and its and it's a cross > between tetris and pipes (or something like that). It also uses a 68000. > The programs on these boards are at a finished state, but before the > security chip was incorporated. I haven't had a chance to plug these things > in yet (I need to build a jamma harness) so I don't know how good, or bad, > these games are. They guy I bought them from said that missle command was > so-so but the centipede was hot. It even had a mode so 2 people could play > at the same time. WOW! Now could we venture a guess that these boards are close in design to production games of the same era? What I'm getting at, I wonder if I could take my Guardians of the Hood, Moto Frenzy, Relief Pitcher, Road Riot (all 92 copyrights) board & plug these chips in? -- Kev Mowerman >>REMOVE THE ? to REPLY Looking for Pac-Man related hacks & Video Game Coin Op Page -> http://www.erols.com/mowerman From owner-vectorlist Mon May 11 19:55:30 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 11 May 1998 19:54:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980511195100.007e63e0@u1.netgate.net> X-Sender: grigsby@u1.netgate.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 19:51:00 -0700 To: vectorlist From: The Grigsbeast Subject: Re: Prototype games In-Reply-To: <35579FE4.BE1B2FF7 > References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: The Grigsbeast >WOW! Now could we venture a guess that these boards are close in design to >production games of the same era? > >What I'm getting at, I wonder if I could take my Guardians of the Hood, Moto >Frenzy, Relief Pitcher, Road Riot (all 92 copyrights) board & plug these chips >in? No. Actually, Relief Pitcher has a very small chance of being related, but the others are totally different HW. // grigs From owner-vectorlist Tue May 12 14:13:10 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 12 May 1998 14:12:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <01603F7CF8C7D111B9B80000F80463F7D91C > From: "Keith, Brendan" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: WG6102 schematic Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:11:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: "Keith, Brendan" Where can I find the above schematic. I have one for the 6100 or 6101 that uses the P317, P318 and P319 boards but the 6102 uses P327, P328 and P329. Specifically, I think that the HV board (P329) is dead. Is the LED near the 555 supposed to light when it is operational. I have put my scope on the output of the 555 and there's no waveform. I just don't want to have my hand in there when it comes to life. Also, lack of HV is no reason for the spot killer LED to be on, right? Looks like I may have multiple problems with this monitor. Thanks in advance, Brendan Keith brendan.keith From owner-vectorlist Tue May 12 15:08:33 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 12 May 1998 15:08:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 17:07:16 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: "'vectorlist > Subject: Re: WG6102 schematic In-Reply-To: <01603F7CF8C7D111B9B80000F80463F7D91C > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: On Tue, 12 May 1998, Keith, Brendan wrote: > Where can I find the above schematic. I have one for the 6100 or 6101 > that uses the P317, P318 and P319 boards but the 6102 uses > P327, P328 and P329. Specifically, I think that the HV board (P329) > is dead. Is the LED near the 555 supposed to light when it is > operational. > I have put my scope on the output of the 555 and there's no waveform. > I just don't want to have my hand in there when it comes to life. > Also, lack of HV is no reason for the spot killer LED to be on, right? > Looks like I may have multiple problems with this monitor. > The schematic should be roughly the same. Gregg Woodcock's well-known XY FAQ explains the differences between the different monitor boards. No, the LED on the HV board is not a good thing. It means that the HV overvolt protection is kicking on. I don't know how this works off the top of my head, but clamping the output of the 555 would accomplish its goal of shutting down the HV section. This MAY be the cause of your spot killer problem, becuase the HV board generates the video B+ for the deflection amps. Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------ Joseph J. Welser jwelser Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin Work: jwelser P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX 78760 ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-vectorlist Tue May 12 17:06:18 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 12 May 1998 17:05:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199805130008.SAA03009 > From: "Chris Cope" Organization: Pinpoint Solutions To: vectorlist Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 18:05:14 -0700 Subject: The state of RGVAC In-reply-to: <01603F7CF8C7D111B9B80000F80463F7D91C > X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: "Chris Cope" I think all of you have seen the state of affairs over in RGVAC. It is now 30% FS posts, 30% Gibbz and DeBerry telling people to post on RGVAM, 30% people bitching at those two, and 10% tech info. I don't participate in this group much, but still read the submissions that are of interest to vector games that I own. My expertise is in the raster area of this hobby. What I would like to see is a raster list created similar to this, because this seems so well run and has very little or none of the crap that is going on in RGVAC right now. I have not talked to my boss about the possibilities of putting a majordomo server on our machines and have no idea what it entales. I was just interested in hearing what you guys think about the idea. Thanks. Chris ------------------ Chris Cope 303-444-7257 x109 Pinpoint Solutions mailto:chrisc From owner-vectorlist Tue May 12 18:13:15 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 12 May 1998 18:12:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980512211101.007d7a20@se.mediaone.net> X-Sender: dpage@se.mediaone.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 21:11:01 -0400 To: vectorlist From: dp Subject: Re: The state of RGVAC In-Reply-To: <199805130008.SAA03009 > References: <01603F7CF8C7D111B9B80000F80463F7D91C > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: dp sounds great, as long as it was moderated and allowed f.s. posts Dave At 06:05 PM 5/12/98 -0700, you wrote: >I think all of you have seen the state of affairs over in RGVAC. It >is now 30% FS posts, 30% Gibbz and DeBerry telling people to post on >RGVAM, 30% people bitching at those two, and 10% tech info. > >I don't participate in this group much, but still read the >submissions that are of interest to vector games that I own. My >expertise is in the raster area of this hobby. What I would like to >see is a raster list created similar to this, because this seems so >well run and has very little or none of the crap that is going on in >RGVAC right now. > >I have not talked to my boss about the possibilities of putting a >majordomo server on our machines and have no idea what it entales. I >was just interested in hearing what you guys think about the idea. > >Thanks. > >Chris > > >------------------ >Chris Cope 303-444-7257 x109 >Pinpoint Solutions >mailto:chrisc > > From owner-vectorlist Tue May 12 21:16:23 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 12 May 1998 21:15:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3559116F.475A@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 20:20:15 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: The state of RGVAC References: <199805130008.SAA03009 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: John Robertson Chris Cope wrote: > > I think all of you have seen the state of affairs over in RGVAC. It > is now 30% FS posts, 30% Gibbz and DeBerry telling people to post on > RGVAM, 30% people bitching at those two, and 10% tech info. > ... Hi! I too am getting a little tired of trying to sift through the gunk to reah the few legitimate enquiries. SO for now, I only drop in every week or so...instead of daily as I used to. John :-#(# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From owner-vectorlist Wed May 13 05:58:37 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 05:58:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <355998A4.24C8C33E > Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 08:57:08 -0400 From: "John W. Linville" Organization: IBM X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; U; AIX 4.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: The state of RGVAC References: <199805130008.SAA03009 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: "John W. Linville" Chris Cope wrote: > I have not talked to my boss about the possibilities of putting a > majordomo server on our machines and have no idea what it entales. I > was just interested in hearing what you guys think about the idea. I think it's a great idea! -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John W. Linville To Be, Rather Than To Seem. | | linvjw I will not torment the emotionally frail... :-) | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-vectorlist Wed May 13 06:57:24 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 06:57:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980513085803.00945100 > X-Sender: mmatelsk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 08:58:05 -0500 To: vectorlist From: Mit_Matelske (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: The state of RGVAC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Mit_Matelske (Mit Matelske) >submissions that are of interest to vector games that I own. My >expertise is in the raster area of this hobby. What I would like to >see is a raster list created similar to this, because this seems so >well run and has very little or none of the crap that is going on in >RGVAC right now. Chris- Try out http://www.syslog.com/arcade/. It's a mailing list that kinda caters to raster games. Most of the people that participate are pretty new to the hobby, but every once in a while there are some things of interest. Mit From owner-vectorlist Wed May 13 09:02:35 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 09:02:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: Display Corrector... Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:00:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill > So, is it true that there is a way to hook Sega vector games up to > a wells monitor? Is it written up somewhere? [...] > this game lives on beyond it's monitor. (Man! is that a run on > sentance or what??) Anyway, any info on performing this switch would > be appreciated. > Yep, there's a way to do it. I think it was just a couple op-amps to perform some input matching to the monitor. I want to say that David Shoemaker did the original write-up? I think Al has it on the Spies archive. If not, I know I have a copy printed out somewhere. I did all my Sega Vector work with a WG monitor. Works fairly well-- the WG isn't *quite* fast enough to keep up with the Sega games all the time so you get an occasional "stray" vector. -Clay From owner-vectorlist Wed May 13 14:22:28 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 14:21:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <5546B06BA6C5D11190070000F8B8447144821E@DFSPO02.dofasco.ca> From: RANGER Mike To: "'vectorlist > Subject: quite quiet! Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 15:48:15 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: RANGER Mike hi all... Went to an old operators warehouse (he has to be out by the end of the summer) as he said he had a few vextor monitors laying around. Damn, no WG colour (was looking to spare up my gravitar monitor cheaply, and maybe get some goddies for you guys). He did have some 13 inch vectors and a B/W 19 incher. He let me rummage around for about an hour, and I found 3 tempest boards and a complete doc set, still in the bag. I tried to get the docs from him, but "they go with a board if you want it". Bottom line, with this guy, and don't get me wrong, he was a real nice guy, is that he wants way too much for his stuff, something in the neighbourhood of $150 fo a board. Maybe if I catch him closer to his move date... On a non vector note, he had to have over 20 pacman/MS pacman boards..but pricey. I walked away with a badly water damaged joust (complete, cab is trash, but boards and monitor look clean) for a good price. Mike P.S. When I get around to it, I'll be looking for some help in tweeking my gravitar up to perfect condidtion...still have some minor display problems... From owner-vectorlist Wed May 13 15:17:32 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 15:17:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199805132220.QAA04726 > From: "Chris Cope" Organization: Pinpoint Solutions To: vectorlist Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:16:44 -0700 Subject: Change of email and web page In-reply-to: <355998A4.24C8C33E > X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: "Chris Cope" Just letting any of you that care that my email and web address are changing immediately. My account at Dimensional is being closed. My email is chrisc . The web page, which contains the Pac-Man multigame hacks, is now http://www.ppsol.com/~chrisc. ------------------ Chris Cope 303-444-7257 x109 Pinpoint Solutions mailto:chrisc From owner-vectorlist Wed May 13 16:40:51 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 16:40:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist > Subject: MC1495's Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:39:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill In the Murphy's !@#$!@# Law category... The only reliable source of Motorola MC1495's (used in the display corrector and Atari Vector Generator) seemed to be Newark Electronics (Farnell) for about $5 a pop in surface mount. That's not too bad compared to $10-14 ceramic DIP parts elsewhere, so I designed the display corrector PCB around the surface mount version. So, low and behold, I go snooping around the web today and what do I find... $1.50 MC1495's in Plastic DIP! @^#$%^@%$^@!!! Anyway, I bought a bunch, so I'll probably be changing the PCB to use DIP parts instead of SOIC. (Grumble, grumble...) If any of you need MC1495's though, www.marshall.com has 'em. June delivery though... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From owner-vectorlist Wed May 13 16:44:26 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 16:44:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:44:21 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: MC1495's Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: aek (Al Kossow) "$1.50 MC1495's in Plastic DIP! @^#$%^@%$^@!!! Anyway, I bought a bunch, so I'll probably be changing the PCB to use DIP parts instead of SOIC. (Grumble, grumble...) " where were the price breaks? may be worth buying something like 100.. From owner-vectorlist Wed May 13 17:01:20 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 17:01:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: MC1495's Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:59:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill Well, they only had 60 coming in and I bought 50 of those. I got 'em for $1.25 a pop? Maybe $1.21? Shipping added on of course. I'm a little confused by the whole situation. According to the Motorola Databooks the MC1495 was only produced in "MC1495D" (SOIC) and "MC1495L" (ceramic DIP). I asked if they were showing up as obsolete in the system or not and "Heidi" told me they weren't. On the other hand, if you go to the Motorola webpage the MC1495 is *gone* now. Looks like there's a MC1494 (which I'd never noticed before). Dunno if it's close or not. Only other manufacturer I've ever seen for the 1495 was SGS. Anyway, I'm expecting the display corrector proto-boards tomorrow. I'm trying to get some MC1495D's directly from Motorola to populate those. (I only have a few 1495D's right now.) I need to figure out if it's cheaper to buy the surface-mount parts from Newark and use the PCB's I get, or just do a new run of boards and eat the cost of these first proto's... I suppose I can always use 'em in my own games and for a few people on the list that wanted a PCB to play with. (Well, if nothing else, I'll definately wait to *see* these MC1495P's in my hands before I change anything. Might be a screw-up. The price looks way to low to be right. Maybe it's EOL and this is the life-time buy on the part....) -Clay > where were the price breaks? > may be worth buying something like 100.. > From owner-vectorlist Wed May 13 17:37:31 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 17:37:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199805140038.UAA16711@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Prototype games To: vectorlist Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 20:38:15 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980511195100.007e63e0@u1.netgate.net> from "The Grigsbeast" at May 11, 98 07:51:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Paul Kahler > >WOW! Now could we venture a guess that these boards are close in design to > >production games of the same era? > > No. > // grigs The MAME guys seem to do a good job from somewhat limited information. A memory map & rom images goes a long way with them. They've also got people who can figure out hardware (I can vouch for Frank, he lives right down the street & did the voice driver for Star Wars). Yes, this is a hint. -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From owner-vectorlist Wed May 13 20:14:52 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 20:14:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 23:13:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Mitchell Rohde To: "'vectorlist > cc: Clay Cowgill Subject: RE: MC1495's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Mitchell Rohde If you are making these newly designed display correctors, why use a part that is lookin' like it's on it's way out? What does the part do? Can we find a better choice? mitch From owner-vectorlist Wed May 13 20:39:57 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 20:39:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 20:39:51 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: RE: MC1495's Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: aek (Al Kossow) "If you are making these newly designed display correctors, why use a part that is lookin' like it's on it's way out?" know of another 4 quadrant multiplier? I tried to find something about a year ago, and couldn't locate one. From owner-vectorlist Thu May 14 05:11:24 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 05:11:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 07:09:41 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist Subject: Source for DAC312s? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Does anyone know a source for DAC312s? Are these still in production? (Of course, a source for AM6012s would be just as good...) Joe From owner-vectorlist Thu May 14 06:26:25 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 06:26:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <5546B06BA6C5D11190070000F8B8447144823E@DFSPO02.dofasco.ca> From: RANGER Mike To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: Source for DAC312s? Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:21:31 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: RANGER Mike My local shop claims to carry DAC312BR/883 1986 Don't know if thats the beast.... Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: jwelser [SMTP:jwelser ] > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 1998 8:10 AM > To: vectorlist > Cc: jwelser > Subject: Source for DAC312s? > > > Does anyone know a source for DAC312s? Are these still in > production? (Of course, a source for AM6012s would be just as good...) > > Joe From owner-vectorlist Thu May 14 07:28:48 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 07:28:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199805141427.HAA11615 > X-Sender: andersk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 08:28:10 -0600 To: vectorlist From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: MC1495's In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Anders Knudsen At 04:39 PM 5/13/98 -0700, Clay wrote: >In the Murphy's !@#$!@# Law category... > >The only reliable source of Motorola MC1495's (used in the display >corrector and Atari Vector Generator) seemed to be Newark Electronics >(Farnell) for about $5 a pop in surface mount. > >That's not too bad compared to $10-14 ceramic DIP parts elsewhere, so I >designed the display corrector PCB around the surface mount version. > >So, low and behold, I go snooping around the web today and what do I >find... > >$1.50 MC1495's in Plastic DIP! @^#$%^@%$^@!!! Anyway, I bought a >bunch, so I'll probably be changing the PCB to use DIP parts instead of >SOIC. (Grumble, grumble...) Clay, you should still leave the SMT footprint and just include the DIP footprint. That way you could put either a DIP part or a SMT part where the 1495's go. Yes? -Anders. From owner-vectorlist Thu May 14 09:07:31 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 09:07:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: MC1495's Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:05:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill I'm not concerned about the parts essentially going away-- I can do a lifetime buy and support the product more or less indefinately. I figure there's a world-wide market of at most about 200 of the things. (I'll probably only sell about ~30 or so initially based on the response I've seen so far.) Even if I only get 100 parts they'll last a long time... ;-) As for an alternative-- Harris makes some analog 4-quadrant multipliers. They have one of those weird-ass Harris part numbers that I can never remember though. Problem is, they're priced like the Motorola parts used to be-- $15-20 a pop. Consensus seemed to be that people would want a display corrector if it was under $30. Better if under $25. I can get there with the cheap Motorola parts, expensive Motorola parts (or Harris) and I'd have to sell it for over $50 to break-even. I don't think many people would bite... The design has about 50 parts on it, so it take a pretty good sized chunk of PCB, and since I won't be making many the PCB is relatively expensive-- thus I need cheap parts to get to the price-point. As for what it does... What the multipliers are doing is basically squaring the y-input and multiplying against a constant to scale the result. That value is then multiplied against the x-input (which can be positive or negative) which results in a sort of inverse linear function-- values close to "center" on the Y axis make the X-axis stretch out, values closer to the limits of the Y axis result in the X axis having very little expansion. Since the "pincushion" effect on the CRT is sorta parabolic and the correction factor is roughly linear the correction isn't perfect. However, the majority of the distortion is in the center (larger correction) so it ends up working rather nicely. I added a potentiometer to "adjust" the amount of correction-- just turn on the cross-hatch grid and turn the knob to where the side look to be more straight than bowed. I started playing around with the Cinematronics method of display-correction in Electronics Workbench, but haven't got much tested with it. (It might be cheaper if it lends itself to use with the Atari method of vector generation...) -Clay > ---------- > From: Mitchell Rohde[SMTP:bovine@eecs.umich.edu] > Reply To: vectorlist > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 1998 8:13 PM > To: 'vectorlist ' > Cc: Clay Cowgill; Mitchell Rohde > Subject: RE: MC1495's > > > If you are making these newly designed display correctors, why use > a part that is lookin' like it's on it's way out? > > What does the part do? Can we find a better choice? > > mitch > > > From owner-vectorlist Thu May 14 09:12:33 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 09:12:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:12:27 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: RE: MC1495's Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: aek (Al Kossow) Consensus seemed to be that people would want a display corrector if it was under $30. Better if under $25. If someone ever builds a new deflection board for the G80, they'll need something similar. I'm guessing thats what the custom IC does on the inputs of the original G80 design. I started playing around with the Cinematronics method of display-correction in Electronics Workbench, but haven't got much tested with it. Did Zonn ever trace out the circuit in Boxing Bugs? From owner-vectorlist Thu May 14 09:17:25 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 09:17:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: MC1495's Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:15:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill > Clay, you should still leave the SMT footprint and just include the > DIP > footprint. That way you could put either a DIP part or a SMT part > where the > 1495's go. Yes? > Yes. They should more-or-less peacefully co-exist. Had I been thinking, I would have put both on the protoboards, but I was lazy and wanted to get the things ordered so I couldn't procrastinate on it anymore. (I hate having unfinished projects, and I've got a couple dozen of 'em now... ;-) Oh, well, paying the price now. ;-) -Clay From owner-vectorlist Thu May 14 09:37:07 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 09:36:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: MC1495's Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:35:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill > If someone ever builds a new deflection board for the G80, they'll > need > something similar. I'm guessing thats what the custom IC does on the > inputs > of the original G80 design. > On a kinda-sorta related note... I still say it'd be really cool to try to find a modern "flat" CRT (like a 25-27" Toshiba, Matsushita, Panasonic/Phillips, etc.) with nice black-phosphor coating and try to drive it from an old vector yoke (or make a new one). The flat screen might "fix" the geometric distortion like the Amplifone tube does, but with the short neck distance on the new tubes adequate deflection might be a problem. > I started playing around with the Cinematronics method of > display-correction in Electronics Workbench, but haven't got much > tested > with it. > > Did Zonn ever trace out the circuit in Boxing Bugs? > Not that I heard of. I might take a look at it again just for grins. I was looking for something use one of those Atmel AVR microcontrollers on and I was thinking of a low-rez flash converter and an AVR with a look-up table to do correction, but that's probably a bit "brute-force"-ish... -Clay From owner-vectorlist Thu May 14 10:54:07 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 10:53:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: Source for DAC312s? Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:52:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill I bought a bunch of surface-mount AM6012's a while back and then had surface-mount to DIP adapters made. I still have some left if you need some. $7.50 each if I recall... Also, anyone know of a source for 68B09E's? (Like used in Star Wars) -Clay > ---------- > From: > jwelser [SMTP:jwelser ] > Reply To: vectorlist > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 1998 5:09 AM > To: vectorlist > Cc: jwelser > Subject: Source for DAC312s? > > > Does anyone know a source for DAC312s? Are these still in > production? (Of course, a source for AM6012s would be just as > good...) > > Joe > > From owner-vectorlist Thu May 14 11:05:53 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 11:05:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn (Zonn) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: MC1495's Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 18:05:25 GMT Message-ID: <355b2e1c.1379000153 > References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: zonn (Zonn) On Thu, 14 May 1998 09:35:25 -0700, Clay Cowgill = wrote: > >> If someone ever builds a new deflection board for the G80, they'll >> need >> something similar. I'm guessing thats what the custom IC does on the >> inputs >> of the original G80 design. >>=20 >On a kinda-sorta related note... I still say it'd be really cool to try >to find a modern "flat" CRT (like a 25-27" Toshiba, Matsushita, >Panasonic/Phillips, etc.) with nice black-phosphor coating and try to >drive it from an old vector yoke (or make a new one). The flat screen >might "fix" the geometric distortion like the Amplifone tube does, but >with the short neck distance on the new tubes adequate deflection might >be a problem.=20 I think the short neck exaggerates the problem which is why the Amplifone= tubes had longer next than the WG tubes. I think short necks were always = desirable (makes for smaller TVs) but only came about with the advent of better compensating electronics. But this is only a guess. > >> I started playing around with the Cinematronics method of >> display-correction in Electronics Workbench, but haven't got much >> tested >> with it. >>=20 >> Did Zonn ever trace out the circuit in Boxing Bugs? I started it, then got torn away by an old "side" job that I thought was = done. I've learned that old jobs are never done, just put on hold for years at = a time. But I'm learning to say no! I just said no to another job someone wanted= to hire me for! I feel real good about this. The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. Just say no. The Cinematronics design does use the 1495 parts, it still uses the = diodes in the feedback of the OP amps to correct for blooming around the edges, but= has an extra non-linear correction stage that's more adjustable than the VDR = circuit of Atari -- and does it without the VDRs. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist Thu May 14 11:16:37 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 11:16:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 11:16:11 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: RE: Source for DAC312s? Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: aek (Al Kossow) "Also, anyone know of a source for 68B09E's? (Like used in Star Wars) " JDR Microdevices may still have some. I'll try to get over to their store and check. From owner-vectorlist Thu May 14 11:17:48 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 11:17:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sent: 14 May 1998 18:16:31 GMT Message-ID: <355B3550.68967D3F@netconx.net> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:17:52 -0500 From: Todd Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: 68B09E's References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Todd Miller I did a quick search the other day, JDR has them for 8.99 each ! I need quit a few, so I'll hold off util I can find'm for less. > Also, anyone know of a source for 68B09E's? (Like used in Star Wars) > > -Clay > -- Thanks Todd http://www.netconx.net/~litterbox From owner-vectorlist Thu May 14 17:11:53 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 17:11:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 19:10:01 -0500 (CDT) From: sickgear To: vectorlist Message-Id: <199851417558541 > Subject: Space Wars question, and an Atari question... X-Mailer: NETCOMplete v3.20, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: sickgear Hi all, This may be a dumb question, but can I test other cinematronics boards (star castle, ripoff, etc) in a Space Wars cab? I didn't see the pinout for Space Wars on spies, so I thought I'd check with the experts b4 I tried it. Another question: I've got a Battlezone that generally works fine, but sometimes it locks up. When it does so, the start button goes solid red, and the spot killer comes on. Any thoughts as to what's going on/where I should start checking? Also, I've got a spare Omega Race flyer if anyone needs it. Also also... is the Cinematronics page being maintained anymore? Just thought I'd break up some of the highbrow techno-talk that I don't understand w/slightly inane writings. The scheduled over-my-headness may now continue! ;) Thanks, Derek sickgear From owner-vectorlist Thu May 14 17:21:51 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 17:21:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199805150020.UAA10812@vela.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: MC1495's To: vectorlist Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 20:20:44 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Clay Cowgill" at May 14, 98 09:05:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Paul Kahler CLay Wrote: > As for what it does... > > What the multipliers are doing is basically squaring the y-input and > multiplying against a constant to scale the result. That value is then > multiplied against the x-input (which can be positive or negative) which > results in a sort of inverse linear function-- values close to "center" > on the Y axis make the X-axis stretch out, values closer to the limits > of the Y axis result in the X axis having very little expansion. So technically you don't need any 4 quadrant multipliers. You need a squaring circuit (do they make such things?) and a 2 quadrant multiplier since Y squared is never negative. -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From owner-vectorlist Thu May 14 17:26:30 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 17:26:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 17:26:25 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: MC1495's Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: aek (Al Kossow) "So technically you don't need any 4 quadrant multipliers. You need a squaring circuit (do they make such things?) and a 2 quadrant multiplier since Y squared is never negative." the correction factor from the opposite channel is squared, that result is fed to another multiplier which is bipolar (2 multipliers / channel) From owner-vectorlist Thu May 14 17:39:43 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 17:39:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn (Zonn) To: vectorlist Subject: Storing / Compressing schematic scans (slightly off topic) Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 00:39:15 GMT Message-ID: <355b8900.1402271127 > References: <355B3550.68967D3F@netconx.net> In-Reply-To: <355B3550.68967D3F@netconx.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: zonn (Zonn) This might be of interest to those on this list who maintain archives of schematic scans. My current job required me to compress some small B&W images, so as spin = off of that project I wrote a compressor for archiving my scanned schematics. It's available at: www.zonn.com/Compression including the 'C' source. It only works with .BMP format files (they are by *far* the easiest to = read, and since they're is no bi-color compression already implemented in the .BMP = format, I don't have to worry about decompressing the image before re-compressing= it). It's lossless compression so the decompressed file is identical to the = original. I've also add mucho CRC32 checking so that downloads can be immediately = checked for errors. If you're currently using PKZIP on uncompressed files, this program will = cut your disk requirements by at least half, usually a bit more than that. If you've saved them in the older .TIF (like the Cinematronics CPU scans = on www.spies.com) this program will cut your storage to about 1/10 the size.= It's about half the size of some of the newer .TIF formats (but there are so = many TIF formats that I have no idea which ones to compare to). As an example, all the Cinematronics CPU scans (six pages) at 600dpi, and= both monitor (Vectorbeam / Cinematronics 4 more pages) scans at 600dpi, = together only take up ~700k of space compressed. Uncompressed they use ~38meg. I can now fit all the Cinematronics schematics on my measly homepage. It currently runs in DOS (or a DOS window), and I've made the source = available so that a possible conversion to a Mac could be done, if someone were = motivated to do so (I know nothing of Mac programming). -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist Thu May 14 17:46:42 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 17:46:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn (Zonn) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Space Wars question, and an Atari question... Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 00:46:03 GMT Message-ID: <355c8f02.1403810070 > References: <199851417558541 > In-Reply-To: <199851417558541 > X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: zonn (Zonn) On Thu, 14 May 1998 19:10:01 -0500 (CDT), sickgear wrote: >Hi all, > >This may be a dumb question, but can I test other cinematronics boards = (star castle, ripoff,=20 >etc) in a Space Wars cab? I didn't see the pinout for Space Wars on = spies, so I thought I'd=20 >check with the experts b4 I tried it. > >Another question: I've got a Battlezone that generally works fine, but = sometimes it locks >up. When it does so, the start button goes solid red, and the spot = killer comes on. Any=20 >thoughts as to what's going on/where I should start checking? > >Also, I've got a spare Omega Race flyer if anyone needs it. > >Also also... is the Cinematronics page being maintained anymore? =20 It was technically Bill's page though it's at my domain. But Bill = (having bought a house) has neither the time nor inclination to maintain it. The people over at www.gamearchive.com plan on adding a Cinematronics = page to their lineup.=20 When that happens I plan on removing all the flyer scans / marque shots = from the homepage and replacing them with Schematics and Cinematronics technical = notes. I'll rename it to the "Cinematronics Technical Reference Page" or = something... (This assumes your talking about the Cinematronics page at www.zonn.com/Cinematronics and not someone else's!) -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist Fri May 15 06:24:01 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 06:22:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199805151321.GAA23008 > X-Sender: andersk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 07:22:17 -0600 To: vectorlist From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: Storing / Compressing schematic scans (slightly off topic) In-Reply-To: <355b8900.1402271127 > References: <355B3550.68967D3F@netconx.net> <355B3550.68967D3F@netconx.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Anders Knudsen At 12:39 AM 5/15/98 +0000, Zonn wrote: >This might be of interest to those on this list who maintain archives of >schematic scans. >It only works with .BMP format files (they are by *far* the easiest to read, and >since they're is no bi-color compression already implemented in the .BMP format, >I don't have to worry about decompressing the image before re-compressing it). >It's lossless compression so the decompressed file is identical to the original. >I've also add mucho CRC32 checking so that downloads can be immediately checked >for errors. This sounds good if you are archiving scans for storage. However, if you are trying to make scans quickly available for viewing, then jpeg (lossy) or gif(lossless) is probably the best way to go. It is less convenient if the user has to run a separate decompression before viewing. Just out of curiosity, Zonn, have you taken an original image, and compared compressed file sizes between your code, jpeg, and gif? That would be interesting to see. (If you have an image to try, I have Adobe Photoshop, and can do the jpeg and gif compression for you.) ...just me 2 cents... -anders. From owner-vectorlist Fri May 15 09:17:31 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 09:16:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: MC1495's Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:14:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill > So technically you don't need any 4 quadrant multipliers. You need a > squaring circuit (do they make such things?) and a 2 quadrant > multiplier > since Y squared is never negative. > You still need one 4-quadrant multiplier. The 1495's can multiply two inputs together and then multiply that by a constant. The first chip does A=(Y*Y)*Z where Y is the Y-deflection signal and Z is a small fraction that represents the amount of "correction" (set by a pot). The second chip does B=(A*X)*W where X is the X-deflection singnal (which varies from about -12V to +12V) and W is a width control (set by a pot). B is then used as the X-axis output to the monitor. -Clay From owner-vectorlist Fri May 15 10:03:33 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 10:02:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805151701.KAA14416 > From: Andrew Wilson To: vectorlist In-reply-to: <199805151321.GAA23008 > (message from Anders Knudsen on Fri, 15 May 1998 07:22:17 -0600) Subject: Re: Storing / Compressing schematic scans (slightly off topic) Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Andrew Wilson >This sounds good if you are archiving scans for storage. However, if you are >trying to make scans quickly available for viewing, then jpeg (lossy) or >gif(lossless) is probably the best way to go. JPEG is designed for compressing photographic images. It does a poor job on sharp edges, such as those found on monochrome schematics. It just kills me to see people use JPEGs on monochrome images, as it smears out all the edges. GIF is good (the compression is as good or better than JPEG on monochrome images, I believe), but as I recall it doesn't have a 1 bit-per-pixel format, so you are probably bloating up your files. But you are right, it's great for viewing. I think Zonn was mostly looking to decrease the space the scans were taking up on the server, though. As a test, I made a 830x603 pixel monochrome BMP file. The BMP file was 61K (as would be expected for an uncompressed image). The JPEG file (with minimum compression) was 20K. If you increased the compression, the JPEG file could get much smaller, but the lines started smearing around 13K. The GIF version of the file was about 5K. The BMZ (Zonn's compression) version was... 652 bytes! Zonn - that compression algorithm looked interesting, but I couldn't quite grok it from looking at the source code. Is the IEEE journal you got it from online anywhere? I'm too lazy to look for it myself, I guess ;) Drew From owner-vectorlist Fri May 15 11:11:54 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 11:10:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn (Zonn) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Storing / Compressing schematic scans (slightly off topic) Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 18:10:23 GMT Message-ID: <355d7a07.1463984128 > References: <355B3550.68967D3F > In-Reply-To: <199805151321.GAA23008 > X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: zonn (Zonn) On Fri, 15 May 1998 07:22:17 -0600, Anders Knudsen wrote: >At 12:39 AM 5/15/98 +0000, Zonn wrote: >>This might be of interest to those on this list who maintain archives = of >>schematic scans. >>It only works with .BMP format files (they are by *far* the easiest to = read, >and >>since they're is no bi-color compression already implemented in the = .BMP >format, >>I don't have to worry about decompressing the image before = re-compressing >it). >>It's lossless compression so the decompressed file is identical to the >original. >>I've also add mucho CRC32 checking so that downloads can be immediately >checked >>for errors. > >This sounds good if you are archiving scans for storage. However, if you= are >trying to make scans quickly available for viewing, then jpeg (lossy) or >gif(lossless) is probably the best way to go. I agree that .GIF is not bad, but jpeg is a very bad choice for saving = schematic scans. If you visit comp.compression you'll find that even the creators = of the standard would recommend against this. JPEG was designed to save = photographic scans and does not work on line art. It works by throwing away the high frequencies of the picture (it softens the edges) this is a bad thing = when saving schematics. I've often downloaded JPEG scans only to find that = when I zoom in to see the value of a part there's nothing but un-decipherable = blob. And if you want to expand and edit it, then recompress it, you're losses = just keep getting worse. Also (at least Paint Shop Pro) must convert the B&W image to at least 256= colors before it can be saved as a JPEG. Thus JPEG must start with a file 8 = times greater than the original.=20 .GIF can handle B&W line art images just fine. .PNG is a newer standard designed to replace .GIF in the lossless world, = that does a better job and is not plagued by the unisys patents that = developers must pay to include .GIF in their software. .TIF has some nice compression modes, but good luck sending them to = someone who is not running the exact software (and version) that you are. There are = so many .TIF modes that no piece of software seems to be able to consistently = read another's. For instance I cannot read 80% of the .TIF scans on = www.spies.com directly. For many of them I can open them with ACDC, which reads them incorrectly. I can them copy the bad image to the clipboard. Then use = Paint Shop Pro to create a new image from the clipboard, somehow, magically the= image that exist "incorrectly" in the clipboard fixes itself when read into = Paint Shop Pro. There's probably an easier way, but this works and I only need to = do it once per image. >It is less convenient if the >user >has to run a separate decompression before viewing. Absolutely agree! Yet currently the most convenient way to save images = (for size) is to use PKZIP on a uncompressed .BMP or .PCX file. I've notice a= few pages using this technique. What I usually do is download a schematic scan. Use what ever program it= takes to finally decipher the image (no one program can do them all -- so far = that I've found). Print the image, then archive the image using a standard = format. I find it pretty hard to work from a schematic on the screen, so from = that point on I usually just pull out the hard copy. But the point is taken. I agree that if you want to point your browser = to a schematic scan, PKZIP or BMZ is NOT the way to go. I'm just looking for = a way to place *many* schematic scans on my home page. At which point I'll say download what you want, decompress it, and save it in a format you feel comfortable with, setting your own size/convenience trade off. >But=20 >Just out of curiosity, Zonn, have you taken an original image, and = compared >compressed file sizes between your code, jpeg, and gif? That would be >interesting to see. (If you have an image to try, I have Adobe = Photoshop, and >can do the jpeg and gif compression for you.) >...just me 2 cents... As far as compression ratios go, I wouldn't even have bothered with this = program if I could not have made a substantial difference in savings. I few = bytes here and there, don't justify "yet another compression program". Here's a test run on the first page of the Cinematronics CPU (600 D.P.I. = 6300 x 4800 pixels): Ext Size --- ---- .BMP =3D 3,782.462 (Full uncompressed size) .JPG =3D 1,706,384 (Using the default settings of Paint Shop Pro) .GIF =3D 329,306 .PNG =3D 223,470 .ZIP =3D 200,709 .BMZ =3D 78,359 As you can see the .BMZ format can get me a *lot* more space on my = homepage and might just be worth the irritation of using the decompressor (I'll see = how many emails I get requesting a different format when I start with the = schematics). Hopefully I've made it just a little more exceptable by supplying full = 'C' source code. If you want to play with this file I'll put it on the homepage in both = .BMZ and .ZIP format so you can see what Adobe can do. Link directly to: www.zonn.com/Compression/CPU1_6.ZIP Or to download it at more than twice the speed: ;^) www.zonn.com/Compression/CPU1_6.BMZ (Of course you need more time to decompress .BMZ than .ZIP so I don't = really see download time as a big advantage to .BMZ files) -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist Fri May 15 11:33:32 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 11:32:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 11:32:28 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: i can't win... Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: aek (Al Kossow) zonn said" "For instance I cannot read 80% of the .TIF scans on = www.spies.com" I wish I knew what format was the most universal for high-compression CCITT G4 tiff data.. People bitched because the scans were too big, and took too long to download, so I compressed them using the highest compression B&W format that was a 'standard' and now people can't decode them... From owner-vectorlist Fri May 15 11:58:21 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 11:57:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: djeffery (Doug Jefferys) Message-Id: <199805151858.OAA19402@mpws15> Subject: Re: i can't win... To: vectorlist Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 14:58:14 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Al Kossow" at May 15, 98 11:32:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: djeffery (Doug Jefferys) Once upon a time, Al Kossow wrote: > > I wish I knew what format was the most universal for high-compression CCITT G4 > tiff data.. People bitched because the scans were too big, and took too long > to download, so I compressed them using the highest compression B&W format that > was a 'standard' and now people can't decode them... Well, TIFF is more like "Microsoft Word Document" - it's a multiplicity of mutually-incompatible standards :) .JPG, as I hope we all agree, is crazy for schematics, for the reasons already discussed. Back to the .GIF side - has anyone considered that 2- or 3-bit greyscale in a .GIF is probably *more* readable than straight monochrome due to the anti-aliasing that a greyscale image would provide? The only missing statistic from the the comparative study, IMHO, is .ZIP. If all you're after is lossless compression large image files, .ZIP may well provide results comparable to Zonn's format. One caveat - if Zonn's format contains optimizations for long vertical lines as well as long horizontal lines, it may well outperform .GIF and .ZIP when applied to schematic drawings. (This may only hold true for cases where the scan was performed with the schematic being very well lined-up with the scanner during the scanning process. For fun, take a .GIF of a schematic and rotate it by 2-3 degrees, and watch the size grow...) Later, Doug. -- Douglas W. Jefferys | Star Data Systems | Email: djeffery | From owner-vectorlist Fri May 15 12:18:37 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 12:17:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: i can't win... Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:15:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill > Back to the .GIF side - has anyone considered that 2- or 3-bit > greyscale > in a .GIF is probably *more* readable than straight monochrome due to > the anti-aliasing that a greyscale image would provide? > The only problem with that is that greyscale GIFs don't print particularly well unless you have a good laser printer. I did a bunch of about 100dpi greyscale scans which made for a nice quality on screen and looked great printed on the beastly HP 5Si (600dpi plus RET) here at work, but they were horrid printed at 300DPI on my Panasonic at home. I think high-rez B/W is pretty good for "standard" since you can always use something like Photoshop and re-sample it down to more greyscales if you want, and if you don't want to you can still print 1:1 on a 600dpi printer and it looks really nice... > The only missing statistic from the the comparative study, IMHO, is > .ZIP. > If all you're after is lossless compression large image files, .ZIP > may > well provide results comparable to Zonn's format. > Yeah, I dunno on that one. LHA, ARJ, and the like might do better or worse I suppose... > One caveat - if Zonn's format contains optimizations for long vertical > lines as well as long horizontal lines, it may well outperform .GIF > and > .ZIP when applied to schematic drawings. > Someone should write a .BMZ plugin for Netscape and IExplorer. ;-) > (This may only hold true for cases where the scan was performed with > the > schematic being very well lined-up with the scanner during the > scanning > process. For fun, take a .GIF of a schematic and rotate it by 2-3 > degrees, and watch the size grow...) > Ahhhh, good point, but at sufficiently high resolution even an uneven scan will probably have vertical or horizontal lines that are made up of multiple-pixel widths. Of course this is kind-of amusing to me since I think the last IDE drive I got for my PC has like 64K sectors or something anyway. 652 bytes worth of schematic? 64K of file system... ;-) -Clay From owner-vectorlist Fri May 15 12:47:21 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 12:46:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist > Subject: Display Corrector works! Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:44:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill Hey all, I fired up one of the Display Corrector boards last night. It worked first try! (Batting about .500 when it comes to PCB's. ;-) Anyway, I put a picture of the board up at: http://www.e-volve.net/~clay/display.html I've got about 10 of this first run to sell off before I change designs. I think the next run I do I won't put the input op-amp circuitry down to save some $$$ on the boards, so if you want one that has input amps you might want to get one of these from me (for use on something other than Star Wars). I think I can get some MC1495D's at about $4 a pop to use on these boards, so I'm thinking of something like: $20 bare board with bill of materials, schematic, and parts placement drawing-- you supply the rest. (No warranty! You build it wrong and mess it up, it's not my fault!) $30 board with surface mount parts populated (MC1495's and op-amp) and docs. (No warranty! You build it wrong and mess it up, it's not my fault!) $35 fully assembled and tested. (Normal Clay Warranty--I'll help you to the best of my ability if you ever have problems with it.) Let me know if any of you want one of these. I'll re-iterate that these will probably bee the only "universal" ones I make. I think I'll just do 'em for Star Wars and Major Havoc from now on since it's easier/cheaper to do that way... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From owner-vectorlist Fri May 15 13:02:24 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 13:00:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 15:58:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Mitchell Rohde To: vectorlist cc: Al Kossow Subject: Re: i can't win... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Mitchell Rohde I think d/l time had to fall below the compatibility issue. Spending 15 mins to d/l an unreadable file is much more likely to piss me off than an hour for a good one... :) Just my $0.01, mitch On Fri, 15 May 1998, Al Kossow wrote: > > zonn said" > > "For instance I cannot read 80% of the .TIF scans on = > www.spies.com" > > I wish I knew what format was the most universal for high-compression CCITT G4 > tiff data.. People bitched because the scans were too big, and took too long > to download, so I compressed them using the highest compression B&W format that > was a 'standard' and now people can't decode them... > From owner-vectorlist Fri May 15 13:16:21 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 13:15:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <355C9549.5ADC@istar.ca> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:19:37 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: i can't win... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: John Robertson Al Kossow wrote: > > zonn said" > > "For instance I cannot read 80% of the .TIF scans on = > www.spies.com" > > I wish I knew what format was the most universal for high-compression CCITT G4 > tiff data.. People bitched because the scans were too big, and took too long > to download, so I compressed them using the highest compression B&W format that > was a 'standard' and now people can't decode them... Hows-about adding a link to someone that has appropriate software for the decompression side?? (just asking) John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From owner-vectorlist Fri May 15 13:20:40 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 13:19:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:19:36 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: i can't win... Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: aek (Al Kossow) "Hows-about adding a link to someone that has appropriate software for the decompression side?? (just asking)" Graphic Converter for the Mac is what I used to create the files, so it works fine. If someone has a pointer to something in the DOS world, i'd be happy to add it From owner-vectorlist Fri May 15 13:33:07 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 13:32:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn (Zonn) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: i can't win... Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 20:31:55 GMT Message-ID: <355ca43a.203808 > References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: zonn (Zonn) On Fri, 15 May 1998 11:32:28 -0700 (PDT), aek (Al Kossow) = wrote: > >zonn said" > >"For instance I cannot read 80% of the .TIF scans on =3D >www.spies.com" > >I wish I knew what format was the most universal for high-compression = CCITT G4 >tiff data.. People bitched because the scans were too big, and took too = long >to download, so I compressed them using the highest compression B&W = format that >was a 'standard' and now people can't decode them... Hey Al, This has come up before in vectorlist, I didn't mean for it to be a = criticism! It's just that programs that claim .TIF only support a subset (I don't = believe there is any program that supports all the .TIF modes). I decided to compress .BMP files for two reasons: 1) It's such a frickin easy file layout that it would be pretty hard = (bordering on incompetence) for a program that supports it to support it = incorrectly. 2) It doesn't have a B&W compression mode so I didn't have to decompress = it before I compress it. As far as your site is concerned, you have lot's of disk space so a nice standard would be nice. Unfortunately most standards will probably use = more space than the current .TIF files. .GIF's are pretty universal, but will probably use quite a bit of space. I don't know what the answer is but the 80% thing wasn't a dig!!! I = really appreciate the effort that goes into maintaining the site, and the = convenience of them being there! And I CAN read them, it just takes a lot if = fiddling between a couple of programs to do so. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist Fri May 15 13:33:42 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 13:32:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <5546B06BA6C5D11190070000F8B8447144824B@DFSPO02.dofasco.ca> From: RANGER Mike To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: i can't win... Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 16:27:04 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: RANGER Mike Ok...My 2 cents... While running under win 3.1, my system could not handle the size of the spies schematics. I went to NT 4.0, and use MS photo editor. The file is still large, and hard to read on the screen , but the print quility is incredible. Great work Al! FYI on the screen, if it reduced to about 24%, it is readable, but it does not hold a light to the printed page, even on 8.5 by 11. Incedently I use an HP 4M laser printer. Mike From owner-vectorlist Fri May 15 13:44:00 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 13:43:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 16:41:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Mitchell Rohde To: vectorlist cc: Al Kossow Subject: Re: i can't win... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Mitchell Rohde > > Graphic Converter for the Mac is what I used to create the files, so it ^^^^ The problem is found..... heheheheh From owner-vectorlist Fri May 15 14:27:24 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 14:26:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 16:25:06 -0500 (CDT) From: sickgear To: vectorlist Message-Id: <199851514219641 > Subject: Re: i can't win... X-Mailer: NETCOMplete v3.20, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: sickgear On 05/15/98 13:19:36 you wrote: > >"Hows-about adding a link to someone that has appropriate software for >the decompression side?? (just asking)" > >Graphic Converter for the Mac is what I used to create the files, so it >works fine. If someone has a pointer to something in the DOS world, i'd > ACDSee32 (the newest version) for win95 works to view the TIFF 4 schems from spies. You can download a trial version free from http://www.acdsystems.com/ It's the only thing I found that could view 'em, but I didn't look too hard. Derek sickgear From owner-vectorlist Fri May 15 15:02:53 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 15:01:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn (Zonn) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: i can't win... Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 22:01:35 GMT Message-ID: <355da6da.876125 > References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: zonn (Zonn) >> The only missing statistic from the the comparative study, IMHO, is >> .ZIP. >> If all you're after is lossless compression large image files, .ZIP >> may=20 >> well provide results comparable to Zonn's format. ZIP creates files, that for the most part, are at least twice as big as = .BMZ, usually even bigger. =20 >Yeah, I dunno on that one. LHA, ARJ, and the like might do better or >worse I suppose... None of the "universal" compressors will compete with .BMZ, though there = is a standard I found out about after I was finishing up with .BMZ. It's = called JBIG and it uses the same core algorithm for compression. Unfortunately the = people writing it are (IMHO) very unix biased. There is source code available = for it, but it will only run on a 32 bit unix system and the protocol is very complicated. The source says: "Not tested on any other machines but = there are sure to be problems if 'int' does not =3D 'long int' on your compiler."=20 It's being designed to do progressive downloads (like .GIF and .JPG) and = so far nothing runs in anything PC (that I found -- I didn't look that hard). = Like it or not I believe that's a mistake on their part. Because of its = progressive nature, and all the stuff dealing with on the fly decoding it's memory = usage is very high, and the source was very hard to follow. Only the core is = similar to mine beyond that the algorithm gets complicated by allowing progressive downloads. As far as just plain compression I'm sure BMZ will do a better job. I = use a bigger model state (I look at more surrounding pixels to determine the = best guess at what the current pixel is). And I use real multiply and divide routines. JBIG uses a shift algorithm that is a heavily enforced patent = of IBMs. It's great for small processors that have trouble doing MUL and = DIV, on a pentium these instructions are pretty darned fast and not much is lost in= speed by using them, and a bit of compression is gained. > >> One caveat - if Zonn's format contains optimizations for long vertical >> lines as well as long horizontal lines, it may well outperform .GIF >> and >> .ZIP when applied to schematic drawings. Ok, I'll write up a simple document describing the algorithm, it's = basically pretty simple and was published back in 1981 as a competitor to the then = being considered FAX standard (there was no source given with the article). = I've tweaked the algorithm implementation a bit and converted it to real code. =20 >Someone should write a .BMZ plugin for Netscape and IExplorer. ;-) I thought of that, but JBIG really is the way to go there, and I'm not = sure if the newest releases of both won't already have JBIG in them -- the JBIG = people are really lobbying for it. It could depend a what IBM wants for its = patent. (BTW: Stac recently announced they own the patent on the PKZIP algorithm,= which is pretty funny because the patent is dated something like 10 years after= the publishing of the algorithm in 1977, and after PKZIP was already using it= -- PKZIP also claim a patent on their version of the algorithm. By it's own admission the patent office has no idea of how to deal with software = patents and is currently excepting all properly word patents and letting the courts = sort them out.) >> (This may only hold true for cases where the scan was performed with >> the >> schematic being very well lined-up with the scanner during the >> scanning >> process. For fun, take a .GIF of a schematic and rotate it by 2-3=20 >> degrees, and watch the size grow...)=20 .GIF would have a harder time with that than .BMZ would. =20 >Ahhhh, good point, but at sufficiently high resolution even an uneven >scan will probably have vertical or horizontal lines that are made up of >multiple-pixel widths. > >Of course this is kind-of amusing to me since I think the last IDE drive >I got for my PC has like 64K sectors or something anyway. 652 bytes >worth of schematic? 64K of file system... ;-) Right! But on my home page 652 bytes are 652 bytes when it comes to the = end of the month billing. The funny part is those 652 byte probably do take up = 64k of their file system. Not my problem! ;^) -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist Sat May 16 15:17:28 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 16 May 1998 15:17:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:15:40 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist Subject: Re: i can't win... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: On Fri, 15 May 1998, Al Kossow wrote: > "Hows-about adding a link to someone that has appropriate software for > the decompression side?? (just asking)" > > Graphic Converter for the Mac is what I used to create the files, so it > works fine. If someone has a pointer to something in the DOS world, i'd > be happy to add it > Ditto for the UNIX world. "Old reliable" tifftopnm doesn't seem to work. I get errors like: 4pFB1A.TIFF: Fax3Decode2D: Bad 2D code word at scanline 73. Which I assume means that tifftopnm can't handle this new compression scheme. xv does read the files, but they look and print horrible. xv was never good at printing stuff anyway. I just spent a few hours wading through the results of an Alta Vista search, and I didn't really turn up any suitable utilities to do this for UNIX. Joe From owner-vectorlist Mon May 18 11:11:14 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 11:10:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist > Subject: Question and misc... Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:08:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill Hi everyone. Rainy as all hell here last weekend so I got some time in on game-projects... Question: What's a reasonable price to ask for a new yoke for a B/W XY monitor? (Selling one to somebody and I don't want to be too high, or too low either... ;-) Misc #1: In my rather limited testing, it seems that a MC68A09EP processor (the slower rated sibling of the MC68B09EP used in Star Wars) will work just fine in a Star Wars CPU board. I only had two to try, but both seemed to work fine. YMMV Misc #2: I did some tinkering in Electronics Workbench modeling the behavior of the Cinematronics "bloom-clamp". It's kinda neat. Analog design is pretty funky stuff to me, so I needed to *see* what it was doing to actually understand it. http://www.e-volve.net/~clay/cinemat.gif ...is a "virtual" o-scope trace of the bloom-clamp in action on a 1KHz triangle wave. The blue trace is the "ideal" triangle wave, the red trace is the output of the bloom-clamp. The bloom-clamp provides gain on the input signal, so the scales for the input and output waves are different. Essentially the circuit provides a fairly linear gain characteristic (with a little bit of boost to low voltages), but the gain starts to roll off as the input voltage increases. For low input voltages the gain is close to 2:1, but as the input voltage increases the gain drops off in a "curve" like fashion. I suppose this would have the effect of "pulling in" parts of an image near the edges of the CRT (near the edge of deflection where input voltages are greater). It also looks like it might cause a little distortion of its own near the center of the screen though too... I'm going to try to hack it into one of the Display Corrector PCB's instead of the "standard" feedback resistor. See what happens. ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From owner-vectorlist Mon May 18 15:03:58 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:03:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:01:06 -0400 (EDT) From: David Shuman To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: Display Corrector... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: David Shuman > > So, is it true that there is a way to hook Sega vector games up to > > a wells monitor? Is it written up somewhere? > > be appreciated. > > > Yep, there's a way to do it. I think it was just a couple op-amps to > perform some input matching to the monitor. I want to say that David > Shoemaker did the original write-up? I think Al has it on the Spies > archive. If not, I know I have a copy printed out somewhere. Actually, it was me, David Shuman. Certainly I do not mind being mistaken for the distinguished Mr. Shoemaker, but I felt the need to set the record straight... :-) Last time I saw a copy of my Sega-to-WG post it was on Kevin Phillips' website. -- David S. Shuman (now David S. Shuman, J.D.!) University of Virginia School of Law '98 From owner-vectorlist Mon May 18 15:31:57 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:31:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D03E3F641 > From: "David Shoemaker (Comforce/RhoTech)" To: "'vectorlist > Cc: David Shuman Subject: RE: Display Corrector... Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:17:20 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2217.0) Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: "David Shoemaker (Comforce/RhoTech)" > > > So, is it true that there is a way to hook Sega vector games up to > > > a wells monitor? Is it written up somewhere? > > > be appreciated. > > > > > Yep, there's a way to do it. I think it was just a couple op-amps to > > perform some input matching to the monitor. I want to say that David > > Shoemaker did the original write-up? I think Al has it on the Spies > > archive. If not, I know I have a copy printed out somewhere. > > Actually, it was me, David Shuman. Certainly I do not mind being > mistaken for the distinguished Mr. Shoemaker, but I felt the need to set > the record straight... :-) > > Last time I saw a copy of my Sega-to-WG post it was on Kevin Phillips' > website. > -- > David S. Shuman (now David S. Shuman, J.D.!) > Leave it to a lawyer to set the record straight :) He beat me to the confession though. David (Shoemaker that is :) David From owner-vectorlist Mon May 18 15:35:59 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:35:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: Display Corrector... Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:34:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill > Actually, it was me, David Shuman. Certainly I do not mind being > mistaken for the distinguished Mr. Shoemaker, but I felt the need to > set > the record straight... :-) > Yikes! Shuman's gunna be a lawyer! Better get my story straight... > My post was in no way meant to malign the reputation or stature of Messers Shoemaker or Shuman and it is with deep regret and utmost sincerity that I most humbly appologize for any inconvenience or damages (expressed or implied) that this error may have caused. ;-) [...] > -- > David S. Shuman (now David S. Shuman, J.D.!) > University of Virginia School of Law '98 > > > From owner-vectorlist Mon May 18 15:56:48 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:56:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 17:55:25 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist Subject: G08 Deflection Transistors Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Hey all, I need to fix a G08 (no Y deflection) and I was browsing through the vectorlist archives and found that there was some question about what to replace the output power transistors with... The schematic that I have (in a Star Trek manual) shows 2N6259s (which cross to NTE/ECG 388) Other possibilities that were thrown out were: 2N5631 (Crosses to NTE/ECE 60) MJ15003 (Also crosses to NTE/ECG 60) 2N6341 (Which crosses to NTE/ECG 327) BUV22 (Which I can't cross to anything) What are y'all using to replace the output transistors? Thanks, Joe From owner-vectorlist Mon May 18 16:16:19 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 16:16:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist > Subject: Display Corrector stuff... Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:14:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill The Display Corrector boards are pretty much coming together for this first batch. (About 10 of 'em) I'm going to get rid of one of the order options and simplify things a bit: Option 1: $20 US. Bare board with bill of materials, schematic, etc. No warranty. You get the parts and build it. If it doesn't work, you fix it. ;-) Option 2: $35 US. Fully assembled and tested unit with bill of materials, schematic, etc. This is configured for Star Wars and/or Major Havoc. (For those that want to experiment, the circuitry is on the board for supporting Sega games... hopefully ;-) If you want one, just send me a check for the purchase price (include some $$$ for shipping if you would). I'll ship relative to what you include for shipping. ($0-2.99 = mail, $3 = Priority mail, $7 = DHL 2-day, $25 = FedEx overnight, $1000 = drive it to your door myself, etc.) ************ Word of warning for people that want the "build it yourself" version: ************ This requires a decent soldering iron and some pretty good soldering skills. (The whole thing is flooded with ground-plane with .01" gap between pad and plane, so it's easy to get shorts-- be careful! Surface mount parts on top too...) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From owner-vectorlist Mon May 18 16:36:35 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 16:36:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: Display Corrector stuff... Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:34:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day Clay (and folks), Below you say that the corrector will be configured for SW or MH...what about Quantum? Is anyone else planning to use it on a Quantum PCB in an older Atari cabinet like my Space Duel? Steven S Ozdemir sso pany's new named) sso (good for a few more months) ozdemir@xenon.stanford.edu (permanent...weekly) ps - I have the Space Duel->Major Havoc converter board by Atari...as I understand it, this does the same thing as Clay's Display Corrector? > ---------- > From: Clay Cowgill[SMTP:ClayC ] > Sent: Monday, May 18, 1998 4:14 PM > To: 'vectorlist ' > Cc: Clay Cowgill > Subject: Display Corrector stuff... > > The Display Corrector boards are pretty much coming together for this > first batch. (About 10 of 'em) > > I'm going to get rid of one of the order options and simplify things a > bit: > > Option 1: $20 US. Bare board with bill of materials, schematic, etc. > No warranty. You get the parts and build it. If it doesn't work, you > fix it. ;-) > > Option 2: $35 US. Fully assembled and tested unit with bill of > materials, schematic, etc. This is configured for Star Wars and/or > Major Havoc. (For those that want to experiment, the circuitry is on > the board for supporting Sega games... hopefully ;-) > > If you want one, just send me a check for the purchase price (include > some $$$ for shipping if you would). I'll ship relative to what you > include for shipping. ($0-2.99 = mail, $3 = Priority mail, $7 = DHL > 2-day, $25 = FedEx overnight, $1000 = drive it to your door myself, > etc.) > > ************ > Word of warning for people that want the "build it yourself" version: > ************ > > This requires a decent soldering iron and some pretty good soldering > skills. (The whole thing is flooded with ground-plane with .01" gap > between pad and plane, so it's easy to get shorts-- be careful! > Surface > mount parts on top too...) > > -Clay > > Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager > ------------------------------------------------- > /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. > \/ Communications Division > From owner-vectorlist Mon May 18 17:22:56 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:22:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sent: 19 May 1998 00:21:28 GMT Message-ID: <3560CF5A.5314@netconx.net> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:16:26 -0500 From: Todd Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: G08 Deflection Transistors References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Todd Miller jwelser wrote: > > Hey all, > > I need to fix a G08 (no Y deflection) and I was browsing > through the vectorlist archives and found that there was some > question about what to replace the output power transistors with... > I rebuilt a my G08 and used the MJ15003's. MCM has them around the $6-$8 (each). They do run on the warm side, so I placed an extra fan in the monitor access door so it would blow across the heatsink/transistor assembly. I'v ran it as long as 3 hrs at a time with no problems. -- Thanks Todd http://www.netconx.net/~litterbox From owner-vectorlist Mon May 18 17:27:56 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:27:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: Display Corrector stuff... Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 17:26:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill > G'day Clay (and folks), > > Below you say that the corrector will be configured for SW or > MH...what > about Quantum? Is anyone else planning to use it on a Quantum PCB in > an > older Atari cabinet like my Space Duel? > Hmmm. I suppose that's right... Quantum did run on an Amplifone didn't it? The display corrector can pretty much be used with anything that doesn't have a "corrector" already built into it. (Black Widow/Gravitar, Tempest, Space Duel all have it built in.) (You *can* hook it up to something with a corrector built in, but it makes for some pretty weird displays... ;-) One little "neat" thing about the corrector is if you add a SPST switch in series with the Y-axis input signal you can use that as a "corrector on/off" switch. Handy if you're going to attach the corrector to a monitor rather than a PCB... (Or for just checking if it's *really* doing anything. ;-) When I sell the correctors on RGVAM I'm only going to bill it as a Star Wars/Major Havoc (and maybe Quantum) fixer-upper. I figure most people on this list are willing to tinker with it for fun, but I don't want to support "WHY DOESN'T YOURE CORRECTOR WERK ON MY WELLSGARNDER BW DISPLAY WITH MY ASTEROIDS BOARD!@!?" type questions from people that probably shouldn't be installing it in the first place... ;-) > ps - I have the Space Duel->Major Havoc converter board by Atari...as > I understand it, this does the same thing as Clay's Display Corrector? It should. I ended up changing the design quite a bit because for some reason or other the Major Havoc type corrector didn't work particularly well for Star Wars. I settled on a variable-correction factor that lets you dial in the about of change you want. (So that it would theoretically work on G-08's or whatever else...) -Clay From owner-vectorlist Mon May 18 18:49:13 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:49:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980518184424.007f6e58 > X-Sender: sswazey (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:44:24 -0700 To: vectorlist From: Scott Swazey Subject: Re: Display Corrector stuff... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Scott Swazey Clay, As I said before, I would like to buy one of the display correctors (option #2) for $35 + $3 shipping. Would you please send me your address? Thanks, -Scott At 04:14 PM 5/18/98 -0700, you wrote: >Option 2: $35 US. Fully assembled and tested unit with bill of >materials, schematic, etc. Scott Swazey QUALCOMM Incorporated Work: (619) 657-2419 mailto:sswazey V-209H Pager:(619) 683-5210 From owner-vectorlist Mon May 18 19:40:27 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:40:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: woodcock@123net.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:42:04 -0500 To: vectorlist From: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Subject: Re: Display Corrector works! Cc: Clay Cowgill Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) At 12:44 5/15/98, Clay Cowgill wrote: >$35 fully assembled and tested. (Normal Clay Warranty--I'll help you to >the best of my ability if you ever have problems with it.) > >Let me know if any of you want one of these. I'll re-iterate that these >will probably bee the only "universal" ones I make. I think I'll just >do 'em for Star Wars and Major Havoc from now on since it's >easier/cheaper to do that way... I'll take 2 please! From owner-vectorlist Tue May 19 08:27:19 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:27:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: Display Corrector stuff... Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:25:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill Hey Scott, I've got a reply to your other mail open-- just trying to figure out what to ask for an XY yoke... What do you think is a fair price? I'm at: Clay Cowgill 109 SE 175th Ave Vancouver, WA 98683 -Clay > ---------- > From: Scott Swazey[SMTP:sswazey ] > Reply To: vectorlist > Sent: Monday, May 18, 1998 6:44 PM > To: vectorlist > Cc: Scott Swazey > Subject: Re: Display Corrector stuff... > > Clay, > As I said before, I would like to buy one of the display > correctors > (option #2) for $35 + $3 shipping. Would you please send me your > address? > > Thanks, > > -Scott > > > > At 04:14 PM 5/18/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Option 2: $35 US. Fully assembled and tested unit with bill of > >materials, schematic, etc. > > > Scott Swazey QUALCOMM Incorporated Work: (619) 657-2419 > mailto:sswazey V-209H Pager:(619) 683-5210 > From owner-vectorlist Tue May 19 08:50:53 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:50:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3561AAB2.53BB > Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:52:18 -0400 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Fair price for a yoke... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Joel Rosenzweig Clay Cowgill wrote: > > Hey Scott, > > I've got a reply to your other mail open-- just trying to figure out > what to ask for an XY yoke... What do you think is a fair price? > I paid $25 for a Wells Gardner color XY yoke. I think that's fair give or take a few bucks. Joel- From owner-vectorlist Tue May 19 09:35:32 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 09:35:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <35610C10.6E74@istar.ca> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 21:35:28 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Fair price for a yoke... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: John Robertson Joel Rosenzweig wrote: > > Clay Cowgill wrote: > > > > Hey Scott, > > > > I've got a reply to your other mail open-- just trying to figure out > > what to ask for an XY yoke... What do you think is a fair price? > > > > I paid $25 for a Wells Gardner color XY yoke. I think that's fair give > or take a few bucks. > > Joel- Well, if you order a replacement yoke from WG you will find the price is a bit more...like about $75US. That's new of course, but that option is available if you need it... John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From owner-vectorlist Tue May 19 09:43:43 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 09:43:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist > Subject: First batch of display correctors spoken for... Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:42:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill Just a heads-up. Looks like the first batch of display correctors is spoken for at this point. If any of you still want one, that's fine-- you'll just need to wait until I do the second type with through-hole parts. I'll send a note around when those are done. I'm not expecting parts until the first week in June though... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From owner-vectorlist Tue May 19 13:51:37 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 13:50:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3561F0E2.1101 > Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 16:51:46 -0400 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: FS: HP 5004A Signature Analyzer References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Joel Rosenzweig I was at the Dayton ham radio flea market this past weekend, and picked up some goodies. One of which, is an HP 5004A Signature Analyzer. I already own one, but I know that others would find this a useful piece of test equipment, so I'm offering it here. This unit works great, is cosmetically very nice, and is complete with the clips that attach to the probe. I bought it for $75, so I'll offer it here for the same plus $5 shipping. For those that don't know, this unit is used to perform signature analysis on Atari and Cinematronics (possibly others) game boards. I've used them to successfully debug Battlezone mathbox problems. If interested, mail me directly. Thanks, Joel- From owner-vectorlist Tue May 19 13:57:18 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 13:57:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:57:08 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: FS: HP 5004A Signature Analyzer Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: aek (Al Kossow) I picked up a couple extra at a flea market two weeks ago too. Now, if I can just talk someone into loaning me the manual to scan.. From owner-vectorlist Tue May 19 14:10:19 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 14:10:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3561F580.2DD2 > Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 17:11:28 -0400 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: FS: HP 5004A Signature Analyzer References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Joel Rosenzweig Al Kossow wrote: > > I picked up a couple extra at a flea market two weeks ago too. > Now, if I can just talk someone into loaning me the manual to > scan.. If I had one, I'd loan it to you, Al. Fortunately, I didn't find that I needed the manual since the schematics tell you how to setup the device anyway. I actually saw a manual w/machine at Dayton, but they guy didn't want to sell them separately, and I couldn't rationalize buying a third piece. :-) Joel- From owner-vectorlist Tue May 19 20:16:10 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 20:15:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 23:14:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist Subject: Yet Another Tempest Spinner Lubricant Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" Previously, on Chris's Tempest: Chris tried to buy Teflon lube at his local Radio Shack, but they don't carry it. He did clean and lubircate the spinner with Color TV Tuner CLeaner. --- So I'm in my local drug store -- not a CVS chain, but a local Mom and Pop type, that also carries cards and health food and weird toys and such. There on the counter I see a glass jar with a bunch of pen-sized tubes in it: Yomega Brain Lube With Teflon Official lubricant for YOMEGA -- The Yo-Yo with a BRAIN 7ml for $2.99 We'll see how this works. ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From owner-vectorlist Wed May 20 08:00:55 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 08:00:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: From: "TomW" To: Subject: HP 5004A Signature Analyzer Manuals Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:30:34 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: "TomW" Al, I just 'rented' a manual set and some kinda technical addendum from WJ Ford Surplus. They are in Canada, and said it would take 2 weeks to get here (USA). Once I get it I'll scan it and post it to Wiretap for all... TomW ---------- > From: Al Kossow > To: vectorlist > Cc: Al Kossow > Subject: Re: FS: HP 5004A Signature Analyzer > Date: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 2:57 PM > > I picked up a couple extra at a flea market two weeks ago too. > Now, if I can just talk someone into loaning me the manual to > scan.. From owner-vectorlist Wed May 20 08:14:38 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 08:14:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:13:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Mitchell Rohde To: vectorlist cc: TomW Subject: Re: HP 5004A Signature Analyzer Manuals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Mitchell Rohde That's funny! I bought an HP5004A from them about 3 months ago, and when I asked about a manual, "Oh no, sir, sorry... we don't have a manual for this unit".... maybe I didn't grovel enough... Mitch On Wed, 20 May 1998, TomW wrote: > Al, > > I just 'rented' a manual set and some kinda technical addendum from WJ Ford > Surplus. They are in Canada, and said it would take 2 weeks to get here > (USA). Once I get it I'll scan it and post it to Wiretap for all... > > TomW > > > ---------- > > From: Al Kossow > > To: vectorlist > > Cc: Al Kossow > > Subject: Re: FS: HP 5004A Signature Analyzer > > Date: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 2:57 PM > > > > I picked up a couple extra at a flea market two weeks ago too. > > Now, if I can just talk someone into loaning me the manual to > > scan.. > From owner-vectorlist Wed May 20 09:03:23 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 09:03:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <01BD83E7.31FD2680 > From: Frank Palazzolo To: "'vectorlist > Subject: Sega Star Trek & HP manuals Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:02:42 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Frank Palazzolo Well - I'm now a card carrying member of the vectorlist with my purchase of a fixer-upper Sega G80 game. I'm currently repairing Sega Star Trek, and figuring out exactly how the speech board works. This is being done in conjuction with simulating the SP0250 speech chip. If this is successful, it will be possible to change the speech content for new or modified G80 games. Right now I'm still at square one with the repair - the game looks complete, but I get no game sounds. I get the intermittent white dot on the screen. I still need to check the obvious things, like the power supplies. Since I'm still feeling lucky, are there any Sega Multi-game kits left? I hope I'll need one soon ;) Also, while the HP manual thread is still going... I bought an HP 1630D logic analyzer at the Dayton Hamvention, and now I'm looking for a manual. I can buy one from HP, but if someone here has one laying around I'd be willing to scan it in and make it available. Thanks, -Frank Palazzolo (New email address) palazzol From owner-vectorlist Wed May 20 09:25:27 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 09:25:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: Sega Star Trek & HP manuals Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:23:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist CC: Clay Cowgill > Well - I'm now a card carrying member of the vectorlist with my > purchase of a fixer-upper Sega G80 game. > Congrats! Good