From jrr Sun May 2 01:03:50 1999 Received: from mail.rdc1.bc.home.com (imail [24.2.10.66]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id BAA28404 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:03:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from flippers.com ([24.113.14.85]) by mail.rdc1.bc.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with ESMTP id <19990502060344.XQWS24551.mail.rdc1.bc.home.com > for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:03:44 -0700 Message-ID: <372BEABA.BF96C5D9 > Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 23:03:38 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-AtHome0404 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: EPROM Programer Advice Needed References: <372A1026.10742F67@concentric.net> <372A7085.981E5077@concentric.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN If this was made by XELTEK, I can understand your frustration. I have an older Superpro, and the darn thing won't handle some proms or some of the 2732's (Like Mitusbishi's) Manufacturers of various eproms used different programming algorithyms, and if your burner is not updated with the recent software you might have problems. Check xeltek.com (I think) and see if they have upgraded the software to handle the version of eprom you have... John :-#)# Mark E Davidson wrote: > > Can anyone recommend a good EPROM burner? Tonight I'm trying to burn 27c64 and > 2732s with a Superpro 2 with limited luck. I'm trying to do new Qbert ROM’s > (which I have done before) but for some reason, I'm getting nowhere fast. Is > there a good Windows based burner? ( I hate DOS). A burner that handles the > ROMS of the 80s machines? Part of my problems is I don't use it enough so when > I do pull it out the (re) rearing curve kills me… RECOMMENDATIONS?? > > -=Mark=- -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From jsulzer Sun May 2 22:07:27 1999 Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (sendmail [169.207.2.78]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id WAA03749 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:07:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jim-scom (harconia-1-174.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.133.176]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.9.1) id WAA32533 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:07:24 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990503030437.00a21aec > X-Sender: jsulzer X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 22:04:37 -0500 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu From: Jim Sulzer Subject: WG6100 X is wacky Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Vector Gurus, I've just finished a WG6100 recap & LV2000 installation and fired up my Space Duel. Unfortunately, it looks like I've got a boogered up X signal coming from my main board. Occasionally it settles down, the spot killer turns off and I can see some vectors & a picture but most of the time it's way out of range +/-10V and it jumps all over the place. On the main board, the Y output looks good and I compared the respective X and Y voltages all the way back to the DACs and the X still looks proportionally greater. Any ideas on what to look at or where to go? I haven't broken out the scope yet but I may have to get down & dirty with this thing before the battle's over. Any suggestions? Also, is there a mistake on the WG6100 X-Y Upgrade/Fix document for replacing R701 on the deflection board? It was originally a 1/4 watt and is recommended to be replace with a 5 watt! I can't imagine that this is really necessary or that the 1/4 watt would have worked in the first place. What gives? Thanks in advance! Jim -------------------------------------------- LIFE is what happens while you are busy making plans :-) From downin@smarty.smart.net Mon May 3 09:59:22 1999 Received: from smarty.smart.net (smarty.smart.net [207.176.80.102]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id JAA19397 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:59:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from downin@localhost) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA32559 for vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:59:15 -0400 From: Dave Downin Message-Id: <199905031459.KAA32559@smarty.smart.net> Subject: Web Archive To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (vectorlist) Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 10:59:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I just wanted to let people on this list know that I've now got a web site with all this list's messages archived. I have always wished that there was somewhere that I could go (after visiting Deja News) to search for technical info about the vectors... So, I looked, and the closest I came was what was on Spies and the fact you could pull up pieces of the archives through the list server. Well, it's now on a web page: http://taupring.erols.com/vectorlist/ Let me just say that the server it is currently on doesn't have the best connection, but it seems to serve the purpose of what I wanted. Suggestions are welcome... -- Dave Downin (dave@arlo.net) ============================================================================= "Sorry, the world is nuts. It can't be helped" - Arlo Guthrie ArloNet - http://www.arlo.net/ ============================================================================= Any commercial e-mail sent to any of the above accounts will be automatically rejected and subject to a $500 processing fee. From jwelser Mon May 3 10:00:07 1999 Received: from piglet.cc.utexas.edu (jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu [128.83.42.61]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id KAA19463 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:00:05 -0500 (CDT) From: jwelser Received: from localhost (jwelser@localhost) by piglet.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/piglet.mc-1.10) with SMTP id KAA24307 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:00:02 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 10:00:01 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: WG6100 X is wacky In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19990503030437.00a21aec > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Sun, 2 May 1999, Jim Sulzer wrote: > Vector Gurus, > > I've just finished a WG6100 recap & LV2000 installation and fired up my > Space Duel. Unfortunately, it looks like I've got a boogered up X signal > coming from my main board. Occasionally it settles down, the spot killer > turns off and I can see some vectors & a picture but most of the time it's > way out of range +/-10V and it jumps all over the place. On the main board, > the Y output looks good and I compared the respective X and Y voltages all > the way back to the DACs and the X still looks proportionally greater. Any > ideas on what to look at or where to go? I haven't broken out the scope yet > but I may have to get down & dirty with this thing before the battle's over. First thing's first...what do you have your meter set on? It looks to me like DC volts. +/- 10 VDC and jumping all over the place seems normal to me, since that's an AC signal, and the OPAmps that generate Xout and Yout are powered off +/- 15 VDC. There are 3 ways to troubleshoot an AVG problem: 1) Break out the scope and do it the smart way. The monitor manual even has the Xout and Yout waveforms for a crosshatch pattern, I believe. 2) Set your meter to VAC and look for places where the signal stops (not very reliable) 3) Shotgun the parts. Normally, back when I went this route, I started with the least expensive, and easiest to find parts (the TL082 OpAmps.) > Any suggestions? > > Also, is there a mistake on the WG6100 X-Y Upgrade/Fix document for > replacing R701 on the deflection board? It was originally a 1/4 watt and is > recommended to be replace with a 5 watt! I can't imagine that this is > really necessary or that the 1/4 watt would have worked in the first place. > What gives? > This doesn't sound right. I would NEVER replace a 1/4 W resistor with a 5W resistor. Joe From jrr Mon May 3 10:14:04 1999 Received: from mail.rdc1.bc.home.com (imail [24.2.10.66]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id KAA20431 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:13:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from flippers.com ([24.113.14.85]) by mail.rdc1.bc.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with ESMTP id <19990503151241.NRVD24551.mail.rdc1.bc.home.com > for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 08:12:41 -0700 Message-ID: <372DBCE6.CF58850B > Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 08:12:38 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-AtHome0404 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: WG6100 X is wacky References: <1.5.4.32.19990503030437.00a21aec > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hi Jim! While not a guru in this area, I would first recommend that you UNPLUG the monitor for further tests! You will need a scope to find your problem but untill you get the outputs (X & Y) down to a more consistant level, I would alos flip the "Test" switch so you get a steady signal, then take a look with the scope. HAve you checked your power supply for steady +5VDCD? andare the other voltages good on the logic board? John :-#)# Jim Sulzer wrote: > > Vector Gurus, > > I've just finished a WG6100 recap & LV2000 installation and fired up my > Space Duel. Unfortunately, it looks like I've got a boogered up X signal > coming from my main board. Occasionally it settles down, the spot killer > turns off and I can see some vectors & a picture but most of the time it's > way out of range +/-10V and it jumps all over the place. On the main board, > the Y output looks good and I compared the respective X and Y voltages all > the way back to the DACs and the X still looks proportionally greater. Any > ideas on what to look at or where to go? I haven't broken out the scope yet > but I may have to get down & dirty with this thing before the battle's over. > > Any suggestions? > > Also, is there a mistake on the WG6100 X-Y Upgrade/Fix document for > replacing R701 on the deflection board? It was originally a 1/4 watt and is > recommended to be replace with a 5 watt! I can't imagine that this is > really necessary or that the 1/4 watt would have worked in the first place. > What gives? > > Thanks in advance! > > Jim > -------------------------------------------- > > LIFE is what happens while you are busy making plans :-) -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From jrr Mon May 3 10:14:33 1999 Received: from mail.rdc1.bc.home.com (imail [24.2.10.66]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id KAA20607 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:14:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from flippers.com ([24.113.14.85]) by mail.rdc1.bc.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with ESMTP id <19990503151402.NSFM24551.mail.rdc1.bc.home.com > for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 08:14:02 -0700 Message-ID: <372DBD35.EB00B0D5 > Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 08:13:57 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-AtHome0404 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: WG6100 X is wacky References: <1.5.4.32.19990503030437.00a21aec > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hi Jim! While not a guru in this area, I would first recommend that you UNPLUG the monitor for further tests! You will need a scope to find your problem until you get the outputs (X & Y) down to a more consistent level. I would also flip the "Test" switch so you get a steady signal, then take a look with the scope. Have you checked your power supply for steady +5VDCD? and are the other voltages good on the logic board? John :-#)# (Opps forgot to spell check the previous copy) Jim Sulzer wrote: > > Vector Gurus, > > I've just finished a WG6100 recap & LV2000 installation and fired up my > Space Duel. Unfortunately, it looks like I've got a boogered up X signal > coming from my main board. Occasionally it settles down, the spot killer > turns off and I can see some vectors & a picture but most of the time it's > way out of range +/-10V and it jumps all over the place. On the main board, > the Y output looks good and I compared the respective X and Y voltages all > the way back to the DACs and the X still looks proportionally greater. Any > ideas on what to look at or where to go? I haven't broken out the scope yet > but I may have to get down & dirty with this thing before the battle's over. > > Any suggestions? > > Also, is there a mistake on the WG6100 X-Y Upgrade/Fix document for > replacing R701 on the deflection board? It was originally a 1/4 watt and is > recommended to be replace with a 5 watt! I can't imagine that this is > really necessary or that the 1/4 watt would have worked in the first place. > What gives? > > Thanks in advance! > > Jim > -------------------------------------------- > > LIFE is what happens while you are busy making plans :-) -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From jbergum@bellsouth.net Mon May 3 10:20:07 1999 Received: from mail1.lig.bellsouth.net (mail1.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.55]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id KAA21062 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:20:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bellsouth.net ([216.76.214.107]) by mail1.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA12636 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 11:20:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <372DBE41.E0B69F99@bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 11:18:26 -0400 From: Joshua Bergum X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-bls40 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Atari vector chip Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Does anyone have a 40 pin atari vector chip, for Space Duel, available for sale? Thanks Joshua jbergum@bellsouth.net From jrr Mon May 3 10:38:46 1999 Received: from mail.rdc1.bc.home.com (imail [24.2.10.66]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id KAA22706 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:38:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from flippers.com ([24.113.14.85]) by mail.rdc1.bc.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with ESMTP id <19990503153834.NZVE24551.mail.rdc1.bc.home.com > for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 08:38:34 -0700 Message-ID: <372DC2ED.53F211D4 > Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 08:38:21 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-AtHome0404 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Atari vector chip References: <372DBE41.E0B69F99@bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Is this the POKEY chip? Ballblazers cartridges have them in side, they are quite cheap ($0.80) and the list here has a note where to find them. The other one is a processor chip (help me with the real number here) and I believe B&G Micro sells it for a few bucks. I stock both of these, but I'm not cheap... John :-#)# Joshua Bergum wrote: > > Does anyone have a 40 pin atari vector chip, for Space Duel, available > for sale? > > Thanks > Joshua > jbergum@bellsouth.net -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From jwelser Mon May 3 10:51:36 1999 Received: from piglet.cc.utexas.edu (jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu [128.83.42.61]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id KAA23661 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:51:36 -0500 (CDT) From: jwelser Received: from localhost (jwelser@localhost) by piglet.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/piglet.mc-1.10) with SMTP id KAA04154 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:51:34 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 10:51:34 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Atari vector chip In-Reply-To: <372DC2ED.53F211D4 > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN No, he probably means the custom chip, labeled only as "Gate Array." Wasn't Clay doing repros? Joe On Mon, 3 May 1999, John Robertson wrote: > Is this the POKEY chip? Ballblazers cartridges have them in side, they > are quite cheap ($0.80) and the list here has a note where to find them. > The other one is a processor chip (help me with the real number here) > and I believe B&G Micro sells it for a few bucks. I stock both of these, > but I'm not cheap... > > John :-#)# > > Joshua Bergum wrote: > > > > Does anyone have a 40 pin atari vector chip, for Space Duel, available > > for sale? From ClayC Mon May 3 11:56:49 1999 Received: from suprahwy.supra.com (suprahwy.supra.com [205.229.114.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id LAA01033 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 11:56:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by suprahwy.supra.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA10520 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:56:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from supra.com(dogbert.supra.com 10.10.0.21) by suprahwy.supra.com via smap (V2.0) from ; id xma010518; Mon, 3 May 99 09:56:26 -0700 Received: from vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com by dogbert.supra.com id aa01776; 3 May 99 9:56 PDT Received: by vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:56:26 -0700 Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: Atari vector chip Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 09:56:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I'm going to guess that you're referring to the "AVG" chip. (I can't remember the number-- 12279? something like that) (If it's bad you'd probably not get any picture at all.) If your symptoms are more along the lines of messed up sound and strange game behavior, it's probably the POKEY (12294?). I have those at $3 a pop. (And before anyone lectures me about O'shea selling them in Ballblazer carts for $.80 each, you're absolutely right. That's where I got mine. I also had to disassemble, desolder, and test the little buggers, so they're $3.00. ;-) (I should have taken a picture of the carnage-- 200 ball-blazer boxes on my garage floor. About 10" deep...) I have a daughterboard replacement for the AVG chip done, but haven't had enough interest in them to merit a production run. (I'd need a total of about 42 orders at $25 each to justify running the boards...) As an alternative I can sell you a "real" AVG chip for $35 (not cheap, but it's an option). -Clay > ---------- > From: Joshua Bergum[SMTP:jbergum@bellsouth.net] > Reply To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu > Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 8:18 AM > To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu > Subject: Atari vector chip > > Does anyone have a 40 pin atari vector chip, for Space Duel, available > for sale? > > Thanks > Joshua > jbergum@bellsouth.net > > From ClayC Mon May 3 12:14:26 1999 Received: from suprahwy.supra.com (suprahwy.supra.com [205.229.114.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id MAA02325 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 12:14:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by suprahwy.supra.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA10824 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:14:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from supra.com(dogbert.supra.com 10.10.0.21) by suprahwy.supra.com via smap (V2.0) from ; id xma010819; Mon, 3 May 99 10:14:08 -0700 Received: from vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com by dogbert.supra.com id aa02866; 3 May 99 10:14 PDT Received: by vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:14:07 -0700 Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: EPROM Programer Advice Needed Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 10:14:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > Can anyone recommend a good EPROM burner? > I'm really fond of my "EMUP" (JDR Microdevices/MCT). Does PALs, GALs, EEPROMs, EPROMs, Flash, tests TTL and CMOS logic, test SRAMs, etc. The software, alas, kinda sucks. It's also DOS based. I like my Needham's PB-10 too, but it's DOS based as well, although I do like the software. Quirky, but functional. My PB-10 alas has proven somewhat flakey-- been in for repair twice and still likes to *read* a lot better than *write*. To be fair though, I've had it for ten years-- so that's only about $1.00 a month for as long as I've had it. ;-) I don't know of much windows based programmer stuff. I think the new BP Microsystems stuff (or was it Data I/O?) is Windows based, but probably a bit expensive. In the back of EETimes lately there's been a "new" (to me) company that's doing some neat programmer stuff-- EPROM programmers that install into the 5 1/4" drive bay on your PC and whatnot. Looks kinda cool. -Clay From ClayC Mon May 3 12:29:25 1999 Received: from suprahwy.supra.com (suprahwy.supra.com [205.229.114.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id MAA03606 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 12:29:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by suprahwy.supra.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA11002 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:29:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from supra.com(dogbert.supra.com 10.10.0.21) by suprahwy.supra.com via smap (V2.0) from ; id xma010997; Mon, 3 May 99 10:29:07 -0700 Received: from vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com by dogbert.supra.com id aa03782; 3 May 99 10:29 PDT Received: by vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:29:06 -0700 Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: Space Duel mod? Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 10:28:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > All I want is a Space Duel mod that makes you able to survive the > "fuse" > in a 2-player connected game. Just like the early version I saw once > upon > a time. > That's a good idea too. I didn't get to put any time in on Space Duel stuff. Oddly enough I actually ran into a difficult problem on Breakout (of all things) that has me scratching my head for the last couple days. (Basically it's how to decide *where* I've hit a brick and thus pick a proper direction to "bounce". I'm doing it "wrong" now and the ball has a tendency to bounce around wiping out lots of bricks at once. Ooops.) On another note-- anyone care to comment on how a "real" Breakout behaves? Specifically I'm curious how the ball hitting the paddle acts. (I *think* that hits near the center tend to decrease the x-velocity of the ball, while hits near the edge of the paddle tend to increase the x-velocity. Unless the hit it on the "near" side of the paddle in which case a reversal of the velocity is in order. So, a hit near the center tend to bounce the ball more "up" and a hit to the edge bounces the ball more "sideways", but hitting an incoming ball on the "near" side of the paddle as it come in tends to bounce the ball back in the same direction.) I think I need to go find an Atari 2600 and Breakout cart during lunch. ;-) > Actually I just thought of a mod for Tempest (now that the > Tempest multi-game kit is finished right? Good timing, hmmm?) How > about > rotating all the text 90 degrees and placing it on the left and right > of > the playfield? That way it could be in a Tempest cabinet converted > for > Major Havoc and you wouldn't have to rotate the monitor back or squish > it > with swapped X & Y. Or has someone on this list already thought of > this? > The text is probably do-able, but the rest of the display is generated by the Mathbox, which I presently regard as some sort of mystical beast that shouldn't be messed with. ;-) A long while back on the Sega Multigame I recommended adding a couple of solid-state potentiometers to control the X and Y gain and centering and having a software controlled width/height/center adjustment. An analog switch could swap the X/Y axis too. That would probably work here as well. (Overkill, but it'd be a fun project. Xicor makes some EEPOT parts that are solid-state pots that keep their last value when the power is off so your settings are automatically restored on power-up until you'd choose a different game...) -Clay From ray Mon May 3 13:20:55 1999 Received: from tbone.agouron.com (tbone.agouron.com [198.182.177.3]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id NAA12858 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 13:20:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from gproxy@localhost) by tbone.agouron.com (8.9.1a/8.8.7) id LAA06793 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 11:20:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns3-wla.agouron.com(192.135.144.6), claiming to be "dns3.agouron.com" via SMTP by gauntlet.agouron.com, id smtpdAAAa001cV; Mon May 3 11:20:45 1999 Received: from agouron.com (ray.dhcp.agouron.com [10.0.6.192]) by dns3.agouron.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA00866 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 11:20:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ray ) Message-ID: <372DE900.E3453747 > Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 11:20:48 -0700 From: Ray Ghanbari Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Organization: Agouron Pharmaceuticals Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Space Duel mod? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Clay Cowgill wrote: > > > All I want is a Space Duel mod that makes you able to survive the > > "fuse" > > in a 2-player connected game. Just like the early version I saw once > > upon > > a time. > > > That's a good idea too. I didn't get to put any time in on Space Duel > stuff. Oddly enough I actually ran into a difficult problem on Breakout > (of all things) that has me scratching my head for the last couple days. > (Basically it's how to decide *where* I've hit a brick and thus pick a > proper direction to "bounce". I'm doing it "wrong" now and the ball has > a tendency to bounce around wiping out lots of bricks at once. Ooops.) > > On another note-- anyone care to comment on how a "real" Breakout > behaves? Specifically I'm curious how the ball hitting the paddle acts. There is some state bahavior. After a certain number of hits, the ball automatically goes into a really sharp angle. After a couple more, it gets more direct and speeds up. My recollection is that: Initially, paddle has three zones: reflect back, mirror, mirror Relatively narrow angle (60 degree cone) Sharp mode: same three zones, cone increses to 120 degrees Fast mode: 5 zones (sharp left, narrow left, mirror, narrow right, sharp right), can use both cones. As an aside, every computer Steve Jobs ever produced came with a version of Breakout (actually a big part of the genesis for the Apple I was for Woz to have a computer that could actually recreate Breakout, which he and Jobs developed while at Atari). The NeXT machine has what I consider the K00Lest Breakout for any platform (Boinkout). I believe the source comes with the developer release. I'm happy to forward if you want to check it out (Objective C is actually quite easy to read). Those of you with Macs can run it if you get the MacOS X server edition. Ray From jhendrix Mon May 3 13:51:16 1999 Received: from smtp.quark.com (smtp.quark.com [206.195.78.15]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id NAA16869 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 13:51:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from denver.quark.com (denver [206.195.71.192]) by smtp.quark.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA21609 for ) Mon, 3 May 1999 12:51:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by denver.quark.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 3 May 1999 12:49:13 -0600 Message-ID: <3D62AB6FFC80D211A84700104B10CB2C4B88DD > From: jeff hendrix To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: Space Duel mod? Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 12:49:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Ray, Could you forward it to me. There is a mac running MacOS X server right outside my cube. -jeff -----Original Message----- From: Ray Ghanbari [mailto:ray ] Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 12:21 PM To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Space Duel mod? Clay Cowgill wrote: > > > All I want is a Space Duel mod that makes you able to survive the > > "fuse" > > in a 2-player connected game. Just like the early version I saw once > > upon > > a time. > > > That's a good idea too. I didn't get to put any time in on Space Duel > stuff. Oddly enough I actually ran into a difficult problem on Breakout > (of all things) that has me scratching my head for the last couple days. > (Basically it's how to decide *where* I've hit a brick and thus pick a > proper direction to "bounce". I'm doing it "wrong" now and the ball has > a tendency to bounce around wiping out lots of bricks at once. Ooops.) > > On another note-- anyone care to comment on how a "real" Breakout > behaves? Specifically I'm curious how the ball hitting the paddle acts. There is some state bahavior. After a certain number of hits, the ball automatically goes into a really sharp angle. After a couple more, it gets more direct and speeds up. My recollection is that: Initially, paddle has three zones: reflect back, mirror, mirror Relatively narrow angle (60 degree cone) Sharp mode: same three zones, cone increses to 120 degrees Fast mode: 5 zones (sharp left, narrow left, mirror, narrow right, sharp right), can use both cones. As an aside, every computer Steve Jobs ever produced came with a version of Breakout (actually a big part of the genesis for the Apple I was for Woz to have a computer that could actually recreate Breakout, which he and Jobs developed while at Atari). The NeXT machine has what I consider the K00Lest Breakout for any platform (Boinkout). I believe the source comes with the developer release. I'm happy to forward if you want to check it out (Objective C is actually quite easy to read). Those of you with Macs can run it if you get the MacOS X server edition. Ray From aek Mon May 3 14:01:32 1999 Received: from spies.com (root [198.180.182.10]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with SMTP id OAA18013 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 14:01:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (618 bytes) by spies.com via send-mail with P:stdio/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp (sender: ) (ident using unix) id for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 11:46:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #18 built 1998-Oct-15) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 11:46:43 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Space Duel mod? Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN "As an aside, every computer Steve Jobs ever produced came with a version of Breakout (actually a big part of the genesis for the Apple I was for Woz to have a computer that could actually recreate Breakout, which he and Jobs developed while at Atari). " the 'rest of the story' is that Jobs never paid Wozniak for the design of Breakout (Woz didn't work for Atari) and that Atari actually didn't use Woz's design, since it was too hard to build in production. From jwelser Mon May 3 14:41:46 1999 Received: from piglet.cc.utexas.edu (jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu [128.83.42.61]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id OAA20720 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 14:41:45 -0500 (CDT) From: jwelser Received: from localhost (jwelser@localhost) by piglet.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/piglet.mc-1.10) with SMTP id OAA22415 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 14:41:44 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 14:41:43 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: EPROM Programer Advice Needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Mon, 3 May 1999, Clay Cowgill wrote: > > Can anyone recommend a good EPROM burner? > > > I'm really fond of my "EMUP" (JDR Microdevices/MCT). Does PALs, GALs, > EEPROMs, EPROMs, Flash, tests TTL and CMOS logic, test SRAMs, etc. The > software, alas, kinda sucks. It's also DOS based. Actually, I kinda like the software.....I've seen much worse. I have the same programmer, and I love the chip testing features of the programmer. Has anybody ever figured out how to write test vectors of other chip types? It was kind of annoying when I wanted to test a chip and it wasn't supported. I figure that stuff is in some .dat file, rather than in the source itself, but I might be wrong. The RAMs supported are only a subset of what it can support, as well... Joe From dougj@hwcn.org Mon May 3 16:14:18 1999 Received: from james.hwcn.org (IDENT:y1fzf62k0xGkRQrxu27I7webn0xOspKy@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id QAA28367 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 16:14:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (ae735@localhost) by james.hwcn.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10447 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 17:13:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 17:13:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Doug Jefferys To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: EPROM Programer Advice Needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Mon, 3 May 1999 jwelser wrote: > On Mon, 3 May 1999, Clay Cowgill wrote: > > > > > I'm really fond of my "EMUP" (JDR Microdevices/MCT). Does PALs, GALs, > > EEPROMs, EPROMs, Flash, tests TTL and CMOS logic, test SRAMs, etc. The > > software, alas, kinda sucks. It's also DOS based. > > I have the same programmer, and I love the chip testing features > of the programmer. Has anybody ever figured out how to write test vectors > of other chip types? It was kind of annoying when I wanted to test a chip > and it wasn't supported. > > I figure that stuff is in some .dat file, rather than in the > source itself, but I might be wrong. The RAMs supported are only a subset > of what it can support, as well... I enjoy my EE Tools' Allmax - burns PAL/GAL/EEPROM/Flash, and has a subset of TTL/CMOS test vectors. I believe you can also create your own test vectors with the software. Software is DOS-based, but runs fine in Windoze - as long as you're careful to be sure that the DOS window is the active window and you're not running anything too CPU-intensive in the background. Allmax device libraries are in separate .dat files - sadly, no specs for these files are available, so it's impossible to add support for different devices. My main gripe -- it burns bipolar PROMs by most manufacturers, but won't do TI's PROMs (e.g. 18S030, 24S10, etc). So I just have to be careful about which manufacturer's PROMs I use. (Since it'll do TI's PALs, I know it's *capable* of burning their PROMs, but I'd have to reverse-engineer the Allmax data files in order to do it...) Info at http://www.eetools.com including lists of supported devices. Later, Doug. -- dougj | @ | hwcn.org | From ray Mon May 3 18:06:37 1999 Received: from tbone.agouron.com (tbone.agouron.com [198.182.177.3]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id SAA16103 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 18:06:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from gproxy@localhost) by tbone.agouron.com (8.9.1a/8.8.7) id QAA08328 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 16:06:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns3-wla.agouron.com(192.135.144.6), claiming to be "dns3.agouron.com" via SMTP by gauntlet.agouron.com, id smtpdAAAa0021K; Mon May 3 16:06:28 1999 Received: from agouron.com (ray.dhcp.agouron.com [10.0.6.192]) by dns3.agouron.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA10986 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 16:06:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ray ) Message-ID: <372E2BF7.B0AF3F96 > Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 16:06:31 -0700 From: Ray Ghanbari Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Organization: Agouron Pharmaceuticals Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Space Duel mod? References: <3D62AB6FFC80D211A84700104B10CB2C4B88DD > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN jeff hendrix wrote: > > Ray, > Could you forward it to me. There is a mac running MacOS X server right > outside my cube. My bad. Source is not included in the Examples directory. However, Boinkout.app is part of the standard application install for MacOS X so you should be able to play it directly. Not sure if the Mac version is the same, but the original NeXT version had amazingly cool stereo sound. I remember having a demo game always running and listening to the sound with head phones to relax when I should have been working on my thesis. Ray From ClayC Tue May 4 12:47:06 1999 Received: from suprahwy.supra.com (suprahwy.supra.com [205.229.114.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id MAA26406 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 12:46:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by suprahwy.supra.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA25668 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:46:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from supra.com(dogbert.supra.com 10.10.0.21) by suprahwy.supra.com via smap (V2.0) from ; id xma025664; Tue, 4 May 99 10:46:28 -0700 Received: from vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com by dogbert.supra.com id ab01500; 4 May 99 10:46 PDT Received: by vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:46:27 -0700 Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: Breakout... (was Space Duel mod) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 10:46:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Well, don't I feel like a dumb-ass. Turns out that Atari's "real" Breakout only allows one brick to be destroyed on each "pass" of the ball. So, my entire Sunday spent trying "fix" my code was basically a waste... Grrrrr. I got Super Breakout for MAME (thanks for the tip Al!) and once I saw how it actually worked it took exactly 8 minutes and 7 lines of code to "fix" mine. Grrrrr. (I'm also willing to bet that I've logged more SuperBreakout time in MAME than any other person alive. It's significantly easier once you notice that location $04 is the "balls used" counter. ;-) So, I need input-- I basically have plain old-fashioned Breakout done now. In the process I have dozens of ideas for "new" stuff to put in. Should I: a) leave Breakout alone and go work on something else (Exidy Multigame probably; maybe Cinemat->WG convertor) b) start adding "new" stuff to Breakout and see how much I can do before I get the Tempest Multigame boards back. c) leave Breakout alone ("classic") and fork off another Breakout game and do "b" to that Thanks, -Clay P.S. Does anyone but me *like* Breakout? ;-) (A Bosconian clone would be neat on Tempest hardware... Hmmmmm.) (reply to clayc if you don't want to clutter up the vectorlist...) From aek Tue May 4 13:15:57 1999 Received: from spies.com (root [198.180.182.10]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with SMTP id NAA00434 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 13:15:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (462 bytes) by spies.com via send-mail with P:stdio/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp (sender: ) (ident using unix) id for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:16:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #18 built 1998-Oct-15) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 11:16:51 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Breakout... (was Space Duel mod) Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN " Does anyone but me *like* Breakout?" I do (actually, I prefer Super Breakout..) Support for the 3 styles of play ala Super Breakout would be fun but I think getting a Cine->WG converter going would do a bunch of people the most good. I'd like to see the Exidy multi-shooter happen too. From fbowen Tue May 4 13:19:15 1999 Received: from balrelay.balt.checkfree.com ([207.196.74.140]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with SMTP id NAA03505 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 13:19:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: by balrelay.balt.checkfree.com(Lotus SMTP MTA Internal build v4.6.2 (651.2 6-10-1998)) id 85256767.006483DB ; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:17:53 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CHECKFREE From: "Franklin Bowen" To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Message-ID: <85256767.0064827F.00 > Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 14:19:23 -0400 Subject: Did the vector list die a while ago? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I just figured out today that I hadn't received a message in weeks/months (I guess I really missed it, huh) and resubscribed. And *NO* I didn't unsubscribe myself...at least I don't think so. :-) Either the list crashed or I got magically dropped. Does anyone know? Just curious. Thanks! From chris Tue May 4 13:23:22 1999 Received: from westnet.com (chris [206.24.6.2]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id NAA06261 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 13:23:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by westnet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA06602 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:23:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 14:23:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: Re: Breakout... (was Space Duel mod) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Tue, 4 May 1999, Clay Cowgill wrote: > c) leave Breakout alone ("classic") and fork off another Breakout game > and do "b" to that Oh hell, if you have the ROM, why not ??? I suppose I've most recently played Arkanoid, which I thought of as just an updated breakout. I didn't remember that the original only let you hit one brick at a time. Vector Arkanoid . . . > P.S. Does anyone but me *like* Breakout? ;-) (A Bosconian clone would > be neat on Tempest hardware... Hmmmmm.) I like it. Vector Bosconian would be cool too. Hmmm -- one spinner and two buttons. Now, if one built a steering wheel to fit over the spinner, and paraleled some pedals to the buttons, you could make a driving game on Tempest hardware . . . -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From jwelser Tue May 4 13:32:41 1999 Received: from piglet.cc.utexas.edu (jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu [128.83.42.61]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id NAA06715 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 13:32:40 -0500 (CDT) From: jwelser Received: from localhost (jwelser@localhost) by piglet.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/piglet.mc-1.10) with SMTP id NAA24809 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 13:32:38 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 13:32:37 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Did the vector list die a while ago? In-Reply-To: <85256767.0064827F.00 > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Tue, 4 May 1999, Franklin Bowen wrote: > > > I just figured out today that I hadn't received a message in weeks/months > (I guess I really missed it, huh) and resubscribed. And *NO* I didn't > unsubscribe myself...at least I don't think so. :-) Either the list > crashed or I got magically dropped. Does anyone know? > > Just curious. Thanks! > Nothing died/crashed. Did you switch email accounts? It's best to take this admin. stuff offline, although I am quick to admit that I, personally, am not real speedy to attend to stuff that can be handled through the listproc. Joe From ray Tue May 4 13:36:23 1999 Received: from tbone.agouron.com (tbone.agouron.com [198.182.177.3]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id NAA08159 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 13:36:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from gproxy@localhost) by tbone.agouron.com (8.9.1a/8.8.7) id LAA04631 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns3-wla.agouron.com(192.135.144.6), claiming to be "dns3.agouron.com" via SMTP by gauntlet.agouron.com, id smtpdAAAa0018J; Tue May 4 11:36:12 1999 Received: from agouron.com (ray.dhcp.agouron.com [10.0.6.192]) by dns3.agouron.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA02466 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ray ) Message-ID: <372F3E1B.687E6945 > Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 11:36:11 -0700 From: Ray Ghanbari Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Organization: Agouron Pharmaceuticals Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Breakout... (was Space Duel mod) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Clay Cowgill wrote: > (I'm also willing to bet that I've logged more SuperBreakout time in > MAME than any other person alive. It's significantly easier once you > notice that location $04 is the "balls used" counter. ;-) I play it all the time! Awesome game. > c) leave Breakout alone ("classic") and fork off another Breakout game > and do "b" to that I vote "c" since that is probably what you'll end up doing anyway ;-) > P.S. Does anyone but me *like* Breakout? ;-) (A Bosconian clone would > be neat on Tempest hardware... Hmmmmm.) Breakout and Space Invaders are definite classics, and I still enjoy playing them very much... > (reply to clayc if you don't want to clutter up the > vectorlist...) Well, Clayout is now officially a vector game, so it is very appropriate to this list ;-) Here is a use for the "Super Zapper" button: once per ball you can press it and have the ball explode into 3 balls (in keeping with the spirit of Super Zapper). Round is over when all balls are lost or all bricks are cleared. The play with the same theme, the Fire button could launch a ball straight up and fast, which you have to catch Discs of Tron style or you die. For coolness, the paddle could compress into a ball when you do this, leaving behind a *very* small paddle to catch with. Obviously, this would make hitting the ball in regular play very difficult when your "shooting", and thus discourage this tactic. You could do a Tempest-inspired Clayout: Block of bricks in the center. Paddle can rotate all around the bricks (all sides in either a circle "Gyruss style" or in a rectangle "Warlords style"). Some bricks spawn new balls, which will keep things interesting. I think the Tempest spinner is the *perfect* controller for this type of game (sort of like the red levels in Tempest...takes precise control combined with high speed to keep things in play) For fun, invert to Space Zap style: Bricks along all outside edges, paddle protect a small region in the center, LOTs of balls flying around (launched when you hit some bricks), some bricks fire a shot at the center which the paddle has to avoid, you die if your paddle is hit by shots or if any ball gets past you into the center drain. As always, careful when you ask for suggestions Clay ;-) Ray From acmech Tue May 4 13:43:03 1999 Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id NAA08646 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 13:42:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 207-172-41-55.s55.tnt10.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com (207-172-41-55.s55.tnt10.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.41.55]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA21839 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:41:56 -0400 (EDT) From: acmech (Dan Todd) To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Breakout... (was Space Duel mod) Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 18:37:41 GMT Message-ID: <37303e1d.12733904 > References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu id NAA08726 Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I love Breakout. I have an original Super Breakout. One of my most played games. I'd add stuff to Breakout if it were my choice. I like being able to select from the 3 diff versions on the Super Breakout. Dan On Tue, 4 May 1999 10:46:17 -0700 , you wrote: >P.S. Does anyone but me *like* Breakout? ;-) (A Bosconian clone would >be neat on Tempest hardware... Hmmmmm.) From aek Tue May 4 13:56:23 1999 Received: from spies.com (root [198.180.182.10]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with SMTP id NAA10044 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 13:56:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (546 bytes) by spies.com via send-mail with P:stdio/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp (sender: ) (ident using unix) id for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:57:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #18 built 1998-Oct-15) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 11:57:19 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Breakout Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN "Hmmm -- one spinner and two buttons. Now, if one built a steering wheel to fit over the spinner, and paraleled some pedals to the buttons, you could make a driving game on Tempest hardware . . . " Son of "Malibu" :-) Mike Albaugh mentioned in a talk that he gave last year that the math box used in Battlezone, Tempest, and Red Baron was developed for a vector driving game called "Malibu". From ClayC Tue May 4 14:16:02 1999 Received: from suprahwy.supra.com (suprahwy.supra.com [205.229.114.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id OAA12829 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:16:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by suprahwy.supra.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA28021; Tue, 4 May 1999 12:15:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from supra.com(dogbert.supra.com 10.10.0.21) by suprahwy.supra.com via smap (V2.0) from ; id xma028019; Tue, 4 May 99 12:15:50 -0700 Received: from vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com by dogbert.supra.com id aa08610; 4 May 99 12:15 PDT Received: by vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Tue, 4 May 1999 12:15:49 -0700 Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'Chris Bright'" Cc: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: Breakout... (was Space Duel mod) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 12:15:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN (This was e-mail Chris Bright and I were kicking back and forth, but it's probably work soliciting more input now. ;-) Overwhelming number of votes has been to keep working on Breakout. (Which, I admit, surprised me.) -Clay > 1. Have bricks that fall out of formation that can "squish" you or be > killed by the ball. Give a bonus for knocking them out of the air.... > should be easy programming wise. > Hey! I like that one a lot. It'll kinda mess with my collision detectors right now, but I can probably work around that. (There's not much *to* Breakout, so I can spend a lot of time doing "special case" checks if need be...) > 2. Have different sizes of paddles. > Yep, I'd thought about that one. Maybe triggered by an Arkanoid-style falling "prize" to be caught. > 3. Use some graphics from tempest for effects... fuze balls etc. > Oh, yeah... I'd forgotten about the fuze-balls. A lot of Tempest graphics were generated "on the fly", so I was having a tough time coming up with anything from the game to tie in... Spikers are possible too... > 4. Have multiple balls. > This would be good. Increases demand on the collision detectors and changes code rather significantly, but just 'cause it's "hard" doesn't mean I shouldn't do it. ;-) > 5. Make the super zap button do something. Maybe make your paddle > bigger > for a few seconds. > That's a good idea. I was actually thinking of having it "super-zap" the bricks and take out some random number of them. > 6. Blocks need more than one hit... they could "crack" after the first > hit and more after each hit. > That's already in the code, just turned off for now. ;-) > I could think up some more if you need more suggestions. > That would be great. Some that I thought of: "special" bricks drop a prize to be caught (ala Arkanoid), prizes give capabilities triggered by super-zap: a) super-zap: destroy some random number of bricks b) time-warp: slow down ball speed 50% for some period of time c) grow: paddle gets bigger for some period of time d) catch: catch the ball and fire it off when ready "Badguys" appear and fly around the screen: a) dropping in new bricks b) making weird ball bounces c) steal the ball and run off-screen (losing ball) unless hit by a second ball before they escape "Brick attack!" (Accompanied by big flashing letters of "BRICK ATTACK!" and loud siren sound. ;-) a) bottom couple rows of bricks suddenly start falling down the screen at different rates-- dodge or be killed! I like Ray's 1:3 ball-splitter for the super-zap too... -Clay > -- > Later, Chris Bright > Vid page http://www.comnet.ca/~cbright/ > > From JOE.MAGIERA Tue May 4 14:28:44 1999 Received: from portal2.ameritech.com (portal2.ameritech.com [144.160.5.70]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with SMTP id OAA14877 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:28:36 -0500 (CDT) From: JOE.MAGIERA Received: from il1.aosrdns.nbk2305.il.ameritech.com (il1.nbk2305.il.ameritech.com) by portal2.ameritech.com with SMTP id PAA03748 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for ); Tue, 4 May 1999 15:28:27 -0400 Received: from conversion.ILAIOI.AMERITECH.COM by ILAIOI.AMERITECH.COM (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3539) id <01JASWMRYFA895Q4QJ > for vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:26:30 CST Received: from a1il.ameritech.com by ILAIOI.AMERITECH.COM (PMDF V5.1-10 #D3539) id <01JASWMRP1FY96ZZ6G > for vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu; Tue, 04 May 1999 14:26:29 -0600 (CST) Alternate-Recipient: prohibited Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 14:22:52 -0600 (CST) Subject: RE: Breakout... (was Space Duel mod) In-Reply-To: To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Message-Id: <"E974ZXXFKMO6B*/R=A1/U=MAGIERA,JOE/"@MHS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Posting-Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 14:26:00 -0600 (CST) Importance: normal Priority: normal Ua-Content-Id: E974ZXXFKMO6B A1-Type: MAIL Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN >Does anyone but me *like* Breakout? Unfortunately yes, too many people. What single game were the majority of Quantum's converted to? My guess - Archanoid, an obvious derivation of Breakout. If Archanoid was a bomb, a lot more of us might have a Quantum in our collection. Joe From ray Tue May 4 15:54:54 1999 Received: from tbone.agouron.com (tbone.agouron.com [198.182.177.3]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id PAA26362 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 15:54:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from gproxy@localhost) by tbone.agouron.com (8.9.1a/8.8.7) id NAA00537 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 13:54:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns3-wla.agouron.com(192.135.144.6), claiming to be "dns3.agouron.com" via SMTP by gauntlet.agouron.com, id smtpdAAAa0007k; Tue May 4 13:54:45 1999 Received: from agouron.com (ray.dhcp.agouron.com [10.0.6.192]) by dns3.agouron.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA07147 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 13:54:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ray ) Message-ID: <372F5E93.35C8F458 > Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 13:54:43 -0700 From: Ray Ghanbari Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Organization: Agouron Pharmaceuticals Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Breakout... (was Space Duel mod) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Clay Cowgill wrote: > > "special" bricks drop a prize to be caught (ala Arkanoid), prizes give > capabilities triggered by super-zap: > a) super-zap: destroy some random number of bricks > b) time-warp: slow down ball speed 50% for some period of time > c) grow: paddle gets bigger for some period of time > d) catch: catch the ball and fire it off when ready > > "Badguys" appear and fly around the screen: > a) dropping in new bricks > b) making weird ball bounces > c) steal the ball and run off-screen (losing ball) unless hit by > a second ball before they escape As much as I enjoy Breakout (and prefer Super Breakout), I really don't enjoy Arkanoid. It just isn't "old school" enough for me. For me, the classic pattern in the vintage games was a very small number of interactions that were simple to grasp adn internalize, a variety of venues that made these interactions more interesting, and tight controls and speed and a sense of being at the edge of control. Tempest and Robotron are classic examples: shoot, keep moving, survive Arkanoid added complexity in interactions (why the hell does this brick give me a powerup??), not complexity in the give and take between venue and interactions. Made the game seem arbitrary and not necessiarily fair. Almost like being in a western where all of a sudden Aliens appear and snatch the bad guy before the shootout. Yeah, the director can do it, but it breaks the "rules" of the illusion. By fixing the interactions to a *very* small space, you define the "rules" for the game universe. The venue then becomes a challenge rather than "cheating". Couple in tight controls and you complete the illusion of projecting yourself into a new "space" (Tempest and Robotron are classic examples of this) Warlords kicks serious ass because the interactions are hyper simple, yet the venue creates the challenge. This is old school. Mortal Kombat has hyper complex interactions as the basis of the challenge, but rewards players that can master the 15 button combos. This is new school. Old school is a visceral connection to the innards of the game. New school is a technical challenge to become proficient at the game. (all this is making me think it is time to put together the equivalent of OO Design Patterns for vintage games ;-) This is why most of my brainstorming ideas for vector clayout involved either the player controling changes to the interactions (superzapper ball explosion, firing a shot with your paddle) or variations on the venue (bricks in the center, around the edge, bricks that fight back in a predictable way, etc.) Anyone familiar with old games can walk up to this and feel like this could have come out 20 years ago. My 2000 millicents on why old games cool and new games are K00L. Of course, one of the advantages of writing your own games is being perfectly justified to ignore people like me ;-) Ray From miranda Tue May 4 16:44:54 1999 Received: from mail.angel.com ([198.133.210.5]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id QAA00788 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:44:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from zazu.angel.com (zazu.angel.com [198.133.210.6]) by mail.angel.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA28904 for < :vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:44:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 14:44:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "Miranda K. Collins" To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Breakout... (was Space Duel mod) In-Reply-To: <372F5E93.35C8F458 > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN How about vector Robotron in a Black Widow cabinet? From ClayC Tue May 4 19:31:18 1999 Received: from suprahwy.supra.com (suprahwy.supra.com [205.229.114.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id TAA22688 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 19:31:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by suprahwy.supra.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA03474 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 17:31:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from supra.com(dogbert.supra.com 10.10.0.21) by suprahwy.supra.com via smap (V2.0) from ; id xma003467; Tue, 4 May 99 17:31:05 -0700 Received: from vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com by dogbert.supra.com id aa00272; 4 May 99 17:31 PDT Received: by vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Tue, 4 May 1999 17:31:04 -0700 Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: Breakout... (was Space Duel mod) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 17:30:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > Arkanoid added complexity in interactions (why the hell does this > brick > give me a powerup??), not complexity in the give and take between > venue > and interactions. Made the game seem arbitrary and not necessiarily > fair. Almost like being in a western where all of a sudden Aliens > appear and snatch the bad guy before the shootout. Yeah, the director > can do it, but it breaks the "rules" of the illusion. > My main rule of thumb for a "fun" game is rather simple: if I die, I should feel that it was my fault. Random "badness" is usually a cheap way to add "difficulty" and as such I somewhat frown on it. I'm not keen on just making things faster until the player has no chance either. (Actually, Breakout kinda takes this approach depending on the skill level of the player.) I don't necessarily agree with your contention that complexity in interactions is a bad thing though. Similarly, random events (and the resultant requirement that the player deal with them) can be a good thing. Think about Bubble Bobble-- lots of random prizes and whatnot in there to entice the user to take chances for the possibility of greater rewards. I felt Arkanoid was the same way-- I can play the game and ignore the "prizes" that fall down the screen without being penalized. The "beasties" that appeared to make your life difficult are really no different than a Baiter in Defender or a Saucer in Asteroids-- they're something of a "hurry up" penalty. I know that if I grab the "red" capsule as it falls, I get the coveted "laser" to shoot bricks. Since I like that device as a player, I'm willing to take risks to get the laser-- even though I risk missing my ball as it bounces back to do so. I think it adds a new strategy to the game. The fact that it appears "randomly" isn't much of an issue to me-- most people think the fruit travels "randomly" in the maze in Ms. Pacman, or saucers appear at "random" intervals in Asteroids. For all I know, the reason "brick X" in Arkanoid drops the laser is because I just hit my 14th brick from the right hand side in the last 34 seconds and my score is under 10000 and I've been playing over a minute... Might as well be random... ;-) My reasoning about having a bad guy that could snag your ball-- was kinda like getting a ship captured in Galaga. If you're careful, you get it back with the reward of having double firepower. Screw up and your ship is gone... (How many times have you "let" your last Galaga ship get captured only to realize that you just ended your own game. ;-) I do *sorta* see your point about old vs. new school, but I'm not sure that I agree how it applies. You can look at Breakout on a variety of levels-- one is clear the bricks, one is keep the ball in play. Arkanoid is essentially the same ruleset and goal, just with more dressings... My 2000 millicents on why old games cool and new games are K00L. Of course, one of the advantages of writing your own games is being perfectly justified to ignore people like me ;-) One of the greater joys of autocracy... ;-) Just kidd'n. -Clay From jrr Wed May 5 10:50:20 1999 Received: from mail.rdc1.bc.home.com (imail [24.2.10.66]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id KAA12230 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 10:49:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from flippers.com ([24.113.14.85]) by mail.rdc1.bc.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with ESMTP id <19990505154931.XEXG24551.mail.rdc1.bc.home.com > for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 08:49:31 -0700 Message-ID: <37306886.B7DC8B6E > Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 08:49:26 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-AtHome0404 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: EPROM Programer Advice Needed References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Joe, have you approached the JDR folks to see if they will provide you with software to adjust the algorithyms? I did that on my Xeltek, and got a rather nice package that I use to read 6530's 9316a/b/c's 2708's etc. I understand that Xeltek doesn't release that any more though... John :-#)# jwelser wrote: > > On Mon, 3 May 1999, Clay Cowgill wrote: > > > > Can anyone recommend a good EPROM burner? > > > > > I'm really fond of my "EMUP" (JDR Microdevices/MCT). Does PALs, GALs, > > EEPROMs, EPROMs, Flash, tests TTL and CMOS logic, test SRAMs, etc. The > > software, alas, kinda sucks. It's also DOS based. > > Actually, I kinda like the software.....I've seen much worse. > > I have the same programmer, and I love the chip testing features > of the programmer. Has anybody ever figured out how to write test vectors > of other chip types? It was kind of annoying when I wanted to test a chip > and it wasn't supported. > > I figure that stuff is in some .dat file, rather than in the > source itself, but I might be wrong. The RAMs supported are only a subset > of what it can support, as well... > > Joe -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From aek Wed May 5 11:40:12 1999 Received: from spies.com (root [198.180.182.10]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with SMTP id LAA15953 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 11:40:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (297 bytes) by spies.com via send-mail with P:stdio/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp (sender: ) (ident using unix) id for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 09:41:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #18 built 1998-Oct-15) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 09:41:07 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: EPROM Programer Advice Needed Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN "I understand that Xeltek doesn't release that any more though..." So, are you willing to make copies of this, if Xeltek wont? From dougj@hwcn.org Wed May 5 12:05:35 1999 Received: from james.hwcn.org (IDENT:M7Qax/ju6eqQrrLuNG+PvsDUElXcI0RL@james.hwcn.org [199.212.94.66]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id MAA18344 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 12:05:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (ae735@localhost) by james.hwcn.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11279 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 13:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 13:05:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Doug Jefferys To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Game design... In-Reply-To: <372F5E93.35C8F458 > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Tue, 4 May 1999, Ray Ghanbari wrote: > As much as I enjoy Breakout (and prefer Super Breakout), I really don't > enjoy Arkanoid. It just isn't "old school" enough for me. > > For me, the classic pattern in the vintage games was a very small number > of interactions that were simple to grasp and internalize, a variety of > venues that made these interactions more interesting, and tight controls > and speed and a sense of being at the edge of control. Ditto. Score counts too. Scoring should be simple enough to be understood and written down on a small card, but commensurate with difficulty. One thing I've noticed in new-school games is that scoring doesn't matter. Whether it's through inflation (a million points a minute for staying alive in many driving games from "Out Run" onwards), or through lack of design (TMNT, one point per enemy killed, whether "boss" or "cannon fodder"), a "score" on a new-school game often means little. Part of this, I guess, is due to "lots of enemies that behave the same way but look different", something impractical with the limited graphics on old-school games. (Flashy graphics don't preclude game design -- Blasteroids is a good example of a game with flashy graphics and lots of enemies and powerups, but maintains a lot of the elements of old-school scoring and gameplay.) > Arkanoid added complexity in interactions (why the hell does this brick > give me a powerup??), I confess I'm not a big fan of "random powerups". If I were Arkanoid's designer, I'd have made the bricks-with-powerups distinguishable from the other bricks - and maybe even displayed the powerups inside the bricks. (Perhaps only when a brick was "exposed" and vulnerable to being knocked out - tempt the player into trying to get the brick or avoiding it...) Back to Tempest - I love the way that once you get past a certain point, you can see the contents of the tankers *inside* the tanker graphics before you shoot 'em, so you can gauge whether or not it's worth the risk of shooting it. The higher levels would be much more difficult (i.e. more so than they already are :) without this feature. > By fixing the interactions to a *very* small space, you define the > "rules" for the game universe. The venue then becomes a challenge > rather than "cheating". IMHO this is the difference between old-school play and the newer "quartersuckers", where you _know_ the machine is gonna hit you once for every two or three hits you get on the "boss" ("I got killed because I screwed up" is more fun than "I got killed because the boss alien decided to squish me like a bug instead of Player 2.") I second Ray's call for player-controlled interactions. In the case of Breakout, it'd be fun to see whether it's best to "split the ball into three" early (say, just after you've broken through the wall), or late (to avoid the "play Pong for 5 minutes just to get that last brick I keep missing by a hair" syndrome) in the wave. In general, I prefer games that call upon the player both to balance both judgement calls based on reflexes (sub-second, "nail the immediate threat" decisions) against longer-term (say, 3-5 seconds) strategic considerations (e.g. do I use my Smart Bomb now or later? Do I shoot this flipper now, or should I ignore it and nail it on the rim when it comes near me?") > Warlords kicks serious ass because the interactions are hyper > simple, yet the venue creates the challenge. This is old school. Request: Monochrome options on these vector ports. I'm a great fan of those insanely-bright Asteroids bullets, and I've never seen anything like them on a color screen. (Vector Breakout and Warlords would be seriously cool with eye-burning single-point balls... I wonder if you could vary the point's intensity for a fireball-like effect in Warlords :-) Since Warlords is a multiplayer game, it might be best redone as a "defend the alamo" kind of thing. Player in middle of screen, 360-degree spinner control, four enemy castles in corners or on edges... Maybe a "Star Castle" played inside-out... > Of course, one of the advantages of writing your own games is > being perfectly justified to ignore people like me ;-) And me. I'm sure that whatever it looks like, we'll enjoy it. It's definitely refreshing to hear talk of people developing on these platforms again. Later, Doug. -- dougj | @ | hwcn.org | From miranda Wed May 5 13:44:18 1999 Received: from mail.angel.com ([198.133.210.5]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id NAA03717 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 13:43:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from zazu.angel.com (zazu.angel.com [198.133.210.6]) by mail.angel.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA04544 for < :vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu>; Wed, 5 May 1999 11:42:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 11:42:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "Miranda K. Collins" To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Game design... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Wed, 5 May 1999, Doug Jefferys wrote: > Request: Monochrome options on these vector ports. I'm a great > fan of those insanely-bright Asteroids bullets, and I've never > seen anything like them on a color screen. (Vector Breakout and > Warlords would be seriously cool with eye-burning single-point > balls... I wonder if you could vary the point's intensity for a > fireball-like effect in Warlords :-) I love that effect too, but is there really any reason that you can't do that on a color screen? I always assumed that the way they did that was to re-draw each shot several times per frame while drawing everything else only once. I also assumed that the reason they didn't do it on the color games is that they all had more going on and doing that would take too much time away from the other shapes and cause flickering. Could someone confirm this? Did I assume right? What does Asteroids look like on a color monitor? I have never seen one. Miranda From ClayC Wed May 5 15:11:06 1999 Received: from suprahwy.supra.com (suprahwy.supra.com [205.229.114.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id PAA12367 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 15:11:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by suprahwy.supra.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA14497 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 13:11:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from supra.com(dogbert.supra.com 10.10.0.21) by suprahwy.supra.com via smap (V2.0) from ; id xma014492; Wed, 5 May 99 13:10:38 -0700 Received: from vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com by dogbert.supra.com id aa09865; 5 May 99 13:10 PDT Received: by vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Wed, 5 May 1999 13:10:37 -0700 Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: Game design... Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 13:10:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > I love that effect too, but is there really any reason that you can't > do > that on a color screen? I always assumed that the way they did that > was > to re-draw each shot several times per frame while drawing everything > else > only once. I also assumed that the reason they didn't do it on the > color > games is that they all had more going on and doing that would take too > much time away from the other shapes and cause flickering. Could > someone > confirm this? Did I assume right? > The monochrome monitor has a lot to do with that effect. The monochrome phosphors have a longer persistence (which leaves those glowing "trails" on shots in Asteroids) which act as kind of an integrator to changes in brightness. You just change the intensity between "high" and "low" and the phosphors will "ramp" up and down to the brightness which gives the "firey" effect. Color monitors have a shorter persistence phosphor (usually to *defeat* the "trails" effect) and since the color vector monitors use standard "raster" tubes (with P22 phosphor I back then?) the trail effect isn't as great. Now you *can* get some of the same effect with a color vector since you're actually driving the color guns a lot "hotter" than you would on a raster-- there's some persistance on the display, but it's not exactly like a monochrome. > What does Asteroids look like on a > color monitor? I have never seen one. > Depends on how you hook it up. If you just connect the Z-output of Asteroids to a color gun input on a WG the display will look "OK", although the phosphor trails are less pronounced. You can compensate by bumping up the output of the Z amp (or messing with the neck board settings and/or screen drive). Running the guns hot though increases the chance of phosphor burn-in. If you hook up more than one color gun to the Z output (tie RGB together for example) you'll get a lot more brightness because you've got all guns hitting phosphors next to each other on the tube. Be careful if you "turn up" the brightness on a monitor with a screen that has reds, greens, and blues without any "white". White will be much brighter than the primary colors separately. The other "gotcha" with vector colors is that the intensity is cumulative. On a "raster" each line of video only gets hit once per field. On a Vector you can redraw any area as many times as you like. So even if the color guns are at a "safe" level if you redraw the same thing a bunch of times it can get so much energy that it'll burn-in. (Which is why you get a lot of "TEMPEST" burn-in on monitors-- when the logo zooms in it's a bunch of single images that eventually stack up on top of each other. That ads to the brightness. So even if you dial in a "safe" level for the "white" on the test screen, the "TEMPEST" logo will still be much brighter!) -Clay From Dangerwil Wed May 5 20:14:01 1999 Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id UAA12645 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 20:13:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Dangerwil Received: from Dangerwil (318) by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id oUXHa02445 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 21:11:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9730a57a.24624655 > Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 21:11:49 EDT Subject: Overvoltage protection To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hey, I was just paging through the BG micro catalog and found this gadget. Lambda overvoltage protection. This unit goes across the + and -. If the voltage ever goes over 6.6vdc, the unit shuts the voltage off. PWR1071... .99. All you switcher challenged techs can lay your fears to rest. Get that server power supply too, + 5 at 48 amps :: ) Bill From jsulzer Wed May 5 20:30:05 1999 Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (sendmail [169.207.2.78]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id UAA13266 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 20:30:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jim-scom (xeros-1-179.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.91.181]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.9.1) id UAA22193 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 20:30:02 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990506012714.00a25890 > X-Sender: jsulzer X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 20:27:14 -0500 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu From: Jim Sulzer Subject: Re: WG6100 X is wacky Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Thanks for your help Joe & John. (Yes, I unplugged the monitor for further testing.) It turns out that one of the analog switches (1 of 4) in the LF13201 that creates the feedback loop of the first section of A10 was bad. I used the unused switch remaining in that part and VOILA! I got vectors! I was following the upgrade instructions a little to blindly and really needed to get out the scope and hunt. FWIW: I think the R920 in the HV cage should be put on that list of resistors to be upgraded to 1 Watt. Mine measured OK but had signs of high heat (burn marks). Jim From woodcock@fastlane.net Fri May 7 22:08:58 1999 Received: from fastlane.net (fastlane.net [209.197.224.10]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id WAA28978 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 22:08:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mkosalka (dallas.tx.tnt1.8.fastlane.net [209.197.225.8]) by fastlane.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA00740 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 22:08:55 -0500 (CDT) From: "Gregg Woodcock" To: Subject: Arkanoid (was: Breakout... (was Space Duel mod)) Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 21:58:05 -0700 Message-ID: <01be990f$5ba43580$08e1c5d1@mkosalka> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN >I know that if I grab the "red" capsule as it falls, I get the coveted >"laser" to shoot bricks. Since I like that device as a player, I'm >willing to take risks to get the laser-- even though I risk missing my >ball as it bounces back to do so. I think it adds a new strategy to the >game. The fact that it appears "randomly" isn't much of an issue to >me-- most people think the fruit travels "randomly" in the maze in Ms. >Pacman, or saucers appear at "random" intervals in Asteroids. For all I >know, the reason "brick X" in Arkanoid drops the laser is because I just >hit my 14th brick from the right hand side in the last 34 seconds and my >score is under 10000 and I've been playing over a minute... Might as >well be random... ;-) When playing the first 2 screens of Arkanoid you should catch EVERY SINGLE powerup that comes down. If the powerup is the tri-ball, lose 2 balls IMMEDIATELY to get back down to 1 ball; if you have more than 1 ball, no powerups will drop. Using this VERY easy and simple strategy you can easily get 10 powerups per wave and the powerup catch bonus is one of the largest point values in the game I have gotten 2 free guys in the first 2 screens doing this!! Also, if you get lasers DO NOT SHOOT because you are throwing away powerups! After the first couple of screens when things get tough, switch to a standard strategy. From jrr Sat May 8 10:47:05 1999 Received: from mail.rdc1.bc.home.com (imail [24.2.10.66]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id KAA08144 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 10:47:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from flippers.com ([24.113.14.85]) by mail.rdc1.bc.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with ESMTP id <19990508154703.UKUI24551.mail.rdc1.bc.home.com > for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 08:47:03 -0700 Message-ID: <37345C78.CD3EC57A > Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 08:47:04 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-AtHome0404 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu" Subject: Quite here? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I haven't received any messages since Wednesday...have we had a quiet spell? John :-#?# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From rlboots@cedar-rapids.net Sat May 8 12:09:12 1999 Received: from CEDAR-RAPIDS.NET (cedar-rapids.net [206.24.60.1]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id MAA12131 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 12:09:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cedar-rapids.net ([209.181.207.205]) by CEDAR-RAPIDS.NET with ESMTP (IPAD 2.5/64) id 8985400 ; Sat, 08 May 1999 12:09:08 -0500 Message-ID: <37346D8A.67BDA8B7@cedar-rapids.net> Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 11:59:55 -0500 From: Rodger Boots Organization: Rodger Boots for President X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Quite here? References: <37345C78.CD3EC57A > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Yup. John Robertson wrote: > I haven't received any messages since Wednesday...have we had a quiet > spell? > > John :-#?# > -- > John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 > Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) > mailto:jrr > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From matt Sat May 8 12:59:22 1999 Received: from admin.veriosc.com (admin.veriosc.com [192.215.246.2]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id MAA14484 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 12:59:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (matt@localhost) by admin.veriosc.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA09528 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 11:00:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: admin.veriosc.com: matt owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 11:00:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Rossiter - Verio Southern California X-Sender: matt@admin To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Quiet here? In-Reply-To: <37346D8A.67BDA8B7@cedar-rapids.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Shhh... we're trying to be quiet. :> _____________________________________________________________________ On Sat, 8 May 1999, Rodger Boots wrote: > Yup. > > > John Robertson wrote: > > > I haven't received any messages since Wednesday...have we had a quiet > > spell? > > > > John :-#?# > > -- > > John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 > > Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) > > mailto:jrr > > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." > > From zonn Sun May 9 00:07:52 1999 Received: from usagi.cts.com (usagi.cts.com [209.68.192.66]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id AAA01182 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 00:07:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from psc4158185.cts.com (psc4158185.cts.com [204.216.158.185]) by usagi.cts.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA05149 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 22:08:45 -0700 (PDT) From: zonn (Zonn) To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Anybody want some old computer manuals? Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 05:10:48 GMT Message-ID: <373715c3.4090649 > References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu id AAA01183 Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN **FREE*** ***FREE*** ***FREE*** (There, that should trigger your SPAM filters!) Ok, this is a little off topic, but it's also free. And this seems like a good place to find someone who might collect old obsolete computers. I have a bunch of old Smoke Signal Broadcasting user/hardware/software manuals for the 6800 Chieftain Computers. If you don't know what these computers are, just consider this message spam. If you do, and you need (or want) manuals, this is your lucky day! (Remember not to respond to this list, I just thought I'd give people here first shot at these things before searching the net for a collector, don't want to start a thread. Someone *MUST* collect these old computers.) These are first come first serve, take them all, and no I don't have an itemized list. It's about 3" of manuals. -Zonn From saint Sun May 9 11:55:05 1999 Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id LAA15594 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 11:55:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from crl.crl.com (crl.com [165.113.1.12]) by mail.crl.com (8.8.8/) via SMTP id JAA15986 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 09:55:02 -0700 (PDT) env-from (saint ) Received: by crl.crl.com id AA29123 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu); Sun, 9 May 1999 09:44:16 -0700 Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 09:44:15 -0700 (PDT) From: "John St.Clair" To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Something to Bookmark In-Reply-To: <3701CBAA.69ED4B2B > Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I have put up a page on my web site with pictures detailing how to discharge a monitor (do raster monitors work the same as vector in regards to this?). I haven't linked it to my site yet as I would like to ask folks who know better than I do if my page is accurate. Would very much appreciate feedback from folks on this list. The URL is http://www.arcadecontrols.speedhost.com/arcade_monitors.html Thank you! --- saint Build Your Own Arcade Controls FAQ http://www.arcadecontrols.speedhost.com From Dangerwil Sun May 9 12:13:24 1999 Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id MAA16333 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 12:13:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Dangerwil Received: from Dangerwil (8080) by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id oUYWa17023 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 13:12:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2403620e.24671bfe > Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 13:12:30 EDT Subject: Re: Something to Bookmark To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN In a message dated 5/9/99 5:04:13 PM !!!First Boot!!!, saint writes: << http://www.arcadecontrols.speedhost.com/arcade_monitors.html >> Wow that spinning skull is cool, hey the info is great too. The only thing is I really wouldn't encourage people to do this. Hate to see people flopping on the ground like a fish. Bill From saint Sun May 9 12:25:04 1999 Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id MAA16518 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 12:25:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from crl.crl.com (crl.com [165.113.1.12]) by mail.crl.com (8.8.8/) via SMTP id KAA24673 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 10:25:01 -0700 (PDT) env-from (saint ) Received: by crl.crl.com id AA29627 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu); Sun, 9 May 1999 10:22:52 -0700 Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 10:22:52 -0700 (PDT) From: "John St.Clair" To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Something to Bookmark In-Reply-To: <2403620e.24671bfe > Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I'm really really leery about putting this page up publically. Anyone else think I should just bag it? The reason I'm thinking of putting it up is because there are people building custom arcade cabinets who are mucking about with monitors who may be playing with fire if they don't discharge them. Catch 22. --- saint On Sun, 9 May 1999 Dangerwil wrote: > In a message dated 5/9/99 5:04:13 PM !!!First Boot!!!, saint writes: > > << http://www.arcadecontrols.speedhost.com/arcade_monitors.html > >> > Wow that spinning skull is cool, hey the info is great too. The only thing > is I really wouldn't encourage people to do this. Hate to see people > flopping on the ground like a fish. > > Bill > > From batlzone@cyberenet.net Sun May 9 16:16:05 1999 Received: from admin.cyberenet.net (admin.cyberenet.net [204.213.252.6]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with SMTP id QAA07763 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 16:16:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from batlzone.ppp.eticomm.net [206.228.183.47] by admin.cyberenet.net with esmtp (Exim 1.62 #5) id 10gavb-0005uG-00; Sun, 9 May 1999 17:16:04 -0400 Message-ID: <3735FC1E.61233E97@cyberenet.net> Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 17:20:31 -0400 From: Al Warner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Something to Bookmark References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Being that I'm the guy who wrote the Cap Kit 101 doc, I'd say that as long as you keep the fear level up on the dangers of discharge, you've done your job. When I first started working on vids, no one had put the two things together, discharge and cap kit install procedures. I got help from a few people at the time, mostly with the wording and accuracy of the information. I had done the job a couple of times, but I was afraid that people would get more hurt if I didn't write the doc. I planned on a pictoral xersion, but I never finished it. Nice to see someone has picked up wher I left off. I may still do the pictoral version. Thanks, -Al- "John St.Clair" wrote: > Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I'm really really leery about putting > this page up publically. Anyone else think I should just bag it? > > The reason I'm thinking of putting it up is because there are people > building custom arcade cabinets who are mucking about with monitors who > may be playing with fire if they don't discharge them. Catch 22. > > --- saint > > On Sun, 9 May 1999 Dangerwil wrote: > > > In a message dated 5/9/99 5:04:13 PM !!!First Boot!!!, saint writes: > > > > << http://www.arcadecontrols.speedhost.com/arcade_monitors.html > > >> > > Wow that spinning skull is cool, hey the info is great too. The only thing > > is I really wouldn't encourage people to do this. Hate to see people > > flopping on the ground like a fish. > > > > Bill > > > > -- ===================================================================== -= Al Warner batlzone@cyberenet.net =- -= Learn how to install a Cap Kit in your video game's monitor and =- -= see a whole lot more on my web page at: =- -= http://www.cyberenet.net/~batlzone =- ===================================================================== From colebr Sun May 9 18:56:13 1999 Received: from cbpu.com (Adams.CBPU.COM [209.45.200.8] (may be forged)) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id SAA22030 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 18:56:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cbpu.com [209.211.31.211] by cbpu.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id AF224A4C012C; Sun, 09 May 1999 19:49:54 EST Message-ID: <37364AAC.B554C3F3 > Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 19:55:41 -0700 From: Ben Cole X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Something to Bookmark References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------26FD96364B4AD638BF63E4B7" Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN --------------26FD96364B4AD638BF63E4B7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "John St.Clair" wrote: > Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I'm really really leery about putting > this page up publically. Hi John, I repair TV's and need to discharge tubes all the time. While your information looks sound, I agree with Bill's comments, " Hate to see people flopping on the ground like a fish." > > Bill Have no fear, someone will get hurt or worse, by no fault of yours, and guess who ends up getting dragged into a lawsuit. Despite your disclaimer, someone could still sue (and collect). P.S. My discharge tool looks exactly like yours, (only with a large alligator clip on the end for easy hookup to the crt dag) Ben --------------26FD96364B4AD638BF63E4B7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

"John St.Clair" wrote:

Thanks for the feedback.  Yeah, I'm really really leery about putting
this page up publically.
Hi John,
 I repair TV's and need to discharge tubes all the time. While your information looks sound,  I agree with Bill's comments,

" Hate to see people  flopping on the ground like a fish."
>
> Bill

Have no fear, someone will get hurt or worse, by no fault of yours, and guess who ends up getting dragged into a lawsuit. Despite your disclaimer, someone could still sue (and collect).
 

P.S.  My discharge tool looks exactly like yours, (only with a large alligator clip on the end for easy hookup to the crt dag)

Ben --------------26FD96364B4AD638BF63E4B7-- From Brendan.Keith Sun May 9 21:42:04 1999 Received: from wcgdene001.itcmedia.com ([207.45.96.249]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id VAA05994 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 21:42:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: by wcgdene001.itcmedia.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Sun, 9 May 1999 20:42:02 -0600 Message-ID: <01603F7CF8C7D111B9B80000F80463F763DA79 > From: "Keith, Brendan" To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: Something to Bookmark Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 20:44:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Additional feedback: Under the "Theory" section you say: You are discharging the capacitor in the monitor. Some beginners (who probably shouldn't be doing this anyway) will say "What capacitor?" I suggest that you make it clear that the tube itself IS the capacitor. Tell them to read up on Leyden jars. Tell them to study schematics. Tell them to get an EE degree. I still say anyone who needs to read a web page to discharge a monitor, shouldn't be. But nice effort. -- Brendan Keith brendan.keith From mayday19@idt.net Sun May 9 23:43:58 1999 Received: from u1.farm.idt.net (mayday19@u1.farm.idt.net [169.132.8.10]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id XAA12894 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 23:43:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost by u1.farm.idt.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id AAA16077 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 00:43:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 00:43:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Anderson X-Sender: mayday19@u1.farm.idt.net To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: Something to Bookmark In-Reply-To: <01603F7CF8C7D111B9B80000F80463F763DA79 > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN You may want to add in a paragraph explaining that if you dont want as big of a spark let the monitor sit a couple hours or overnight before discharging it. G07s will usually lose most of their charge if they sit for a day or so, I've never gotten a spark from them after waiting.. I dunno if you want to add this in either, but the WG 610x color vector monitors automatically discharge the tube whenever they are off.. I've never gotten a spark from them even discharging them 1 min after being turned off. Jeff From Ahowald@bilbo.w-link.net Mon May 10 02:30:29 1999 Received: from bilbo.w-link.net (bilbo.w-link.net [206.98.114.20]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id CAA25081 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 02:30:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from aaron-s (dial039.w-link.net [206.98.114.68]) by bilbo.w-link.net (8.9.0/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA06582 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 00:32:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001201be9ab7$a1e848c0$447262ce@aaron-s> From: "Aaron Howald" To: Subject: Re: Something to Bookmark Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 00:35:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Anderson To: 'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu' Date: Sunday, May 09, 1999 9:50 PM >You may want to add in a paragraph explaining that if you dont want as big >of a spark let the monitor sit a couple hours or overnight before >discharging it. G07s will usually lose most of their charge if they sit >for a day or so, I've never gotten a spark from them after waiting.. I >dunno if you want to add this in either, but the WG 610x color vector >monitors automatically discharge the tube whenever they are off.. I've >never gotten a spark from them even discharging them 1 min after being >turned off. Hi! I work with tv sets all the time (repair shop) and manufacurers make flybacks 2 ways: with a bleeder resistor, and without. The withouts are the ones that can hold HV for weeks sometimes, with a bleeder, hv goes to zero within 1 minute! A sure way to tell is this:if the tube crackles for 5-10 seconds AFTER the power is turned off, the tube is discharging itself (WG vector monitors, and all Sony tv's I have worked on) If it just turns off, with no crackle, you have 20-30 kv on the tube... all recent GE/RCA sets are like this-and the tube can stay charged a long time... This crackle test is at least 95% positive, but I still clip a lead to the outside of the tube and a screwdriver and "POP" the tube...I have not been hit with 30Kv yet in 10 years, and am not looking forward to the first time... Thanks! Aaron Howald ahowald@w-link.net > >Jeff > > From colebr Mon May 10 06:56:32 1999 Received: from cbpu.com (Adams.CBPU.COM [209.45.200.8] (may be forged)) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id GAA06405 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 06:56:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cbpu.com [209.211.31.211] by cbpu.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id A7FAA4480054; Mon, 10 May 1999 07:50:18 EST Message-ID: <3736F384.1E3F46A7 > Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 07:56:05 -0700 From: Ben Cole X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu" Subject: Asteroids Deluxe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Dear Vectorlist Gurus, My Asteroids Deluxe recently started having a little intermittent trouble with the buttons. While rotating and thrusting, pressing fire will interrupt the rotation of the ship, resulting in no rotate or fire. I put in brand new switch contacts but once in a while it will still do it. Sometimes it is very often other times once in a great while. I double checked the wire harness and connectors and they seem to be fine. ( .03 ohms from the switch contacts to the main board and self test seems ok, all switches respond ) Has anyone ever run into this problem? Should I be looking at the inputs to the J10 and L10 data/sel/multiplexer, or the IC's ? Intermittent fault makes me think wiring, or switches, or main board connector, or wire traces on main board. Ben Cole From raiford Mon May 10 08:14:54 1999 Received: from relay5.smtp.psi.net (relay5.smtp.psi.net [38.9.28.2]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id IAA09500 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 08:14:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [204.240.133.14] (helo=orange) by relay5.smtp.psi.net with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu id 10gptT-0003Dd-00; Mon, 10 May 1999 09:14:51 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990510090938.00805380 > X-Sender: us001378 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:09:38 -0400 To: Vector List From: Jon Raiford Subject: Vector Monitor Problem - Please Help Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I just recapped my WG 6101 monitor and installed an LV2000 and it has a slight ripple to it. When I put it in my Tempest and brought up the crosshatch, the 4th vertical bar from the right looks like a sine wave instead of being straight. I admit I haven't looked through the 80 page document on the WG monitors... It hurt my brain trying to search through it for the problem. Also, I noticed there are other part replacements that have been recommended, but I haven't tried looking for them yet. Does anyone sell a kit with all of them? Thanks for any insight.. Jon From saint Mon May 10 08:25:09 1999 Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id IAA09916 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 08:25:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from crl.crl.com (crl.com [165.113.1.12]) by mail.crl.com (8.8.8/) via SMTP id GAA28180 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 06:25:03 -0700 (PDT) env-from (saint ) Received: by crl.crl.com id AA08402 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu); Mon, 10 May 1999 06:11:56 -0700 Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 06:11:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "John St.Clair" To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Something to Bookmark In-Reply-To: <001201be9ab7$a1e848c0$447262ce@aaron-s> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Well, bowing to the wisdom of the masses I'm not putting that page up at present. Thank you for all the feedback! --- saint On Mon, 10 May 1999, Aaron Howald wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Anderson > To: 'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu' > Date: Sunday, May 09, 1999 9:50 PM > > >You may want to add in a paragraph explaining that if you dont want as big > >of a spark let the monitor sit a couple hours or overnight before > >discharging it. G07s will usually lose most of their charge if they sit > >for a day or so, I've never gotten a spark from them after waiting.. I > >dunno if you want to add this in either, but the WG 610x color vector > >monitors automatically discharge the tube whenever they are off.. I've > >never gotten a spark from them even discharging them 1 min after being > >turned off. > Hi! I work with tv sets all the time (repair shop) and manufacurers make > flybacks 2 ways: with a bleeder resistor, and without. The withouts are the > ones that can hold HV for weeks sometimes, with a bleeder, hv goes to zero > within 1 minute! > > A sure way to tell is this:if the tube crackles for 5-10 seconds AFTER the > power is turned off, the tube is discharging itself (WG vector monitors, and > all Sony tv's I have worked on) If it just turns off, with no crackle, you > have 20-30 kv on the tube... > all recent GE/RCA sets are like this-and the tube can stay charged a long > time... > This crackle test is at least 95% positive, but I still clip a lead to the > outside of the tube and a screwdriver and "POP" the tube...I have not been > hit with 30Kv yet in 10 years, and am not looking forward to the first > time... > > Thanks! > Aaron Howald > ahowald@w-link.net > > > >Jeff > > > > > > From jwelser Mon May 10 09:49:34 1999 Received: from piglet.cc.utexas.edu (jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu [128.83.42.61]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id JAA23813 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 09:49:32 -0500 (CDT) From: jwelser Received: from localhost (jwelser@localhost) by piglet.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/piglet.mc-1.10) with SMTP id JAA18851 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 09:49:30 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:49:30 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Something to Bookmark In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Sun, 9 May 1999, John St.Clair wrote: > I have put up a page on my web site with pictures detailing how to > discharge a monitor (do raster monitors work the same as vector in > regards to this?). I haven't linked it to my site yet as I would like to > ask folks who know better than I do if my page is accurate. Would very > much appreciate feedback from folks on this list. > > The URL is http://www.arcadecontrols.speedhost.com/arcade_monitors.html The best feedback that I can give is to check out the sci.electronics.repair FAQ at www.repairfaq.org It has, what I consider to be, an excellent, fairly comprehensive, TV/computer monitor repair guide, including safety tips. Joe From ray Mon May 10 10:31:42 1999 Received: from tbone.agouron.com (tbone.agouron.com [198.182.177.3]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id KAA26150 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 10:31:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from gproxy@localhost) by tbone.agouron.com (8.9.1a/8.8.7) id IAA08645 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 08:31:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns3-wla.agouron.com(192.135.144.6), claiming to be "dns3.agouron.com" via SMTP by gauntlet.agouron.com, id smtpdAAAa0026g; Mon May 10 08:31:35 1999 Received: from agouron.com (ray.dhcp.agouron.com [10.0.6.192]) by dns3.agouron.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA17668 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 08:31:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ray ) Message-ID: <3736FBBA.1C1F7AFC > Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:31:06 -0700 From: Ray Ghanbari Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Organization: Agouron Pharmaceuticals Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Something to Bookmark References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN John St.Clair wrote: > > Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I'm really really leery about putting > this page up publically. Anyone else think I should just bag it? Don't put it up. Suggest a page detailing why it is dangerous as hell to even poke around a monitor (of any kind). Insist people have a TV repairman do the discharge for them. That way they can learn by watching. This is asking for trouble (remember the bell curve...for every Stephen Hawking, there is a Homer Simpson) Ray From ray Mon May 10 10:39:44 1999 Received: from tbone.agouron.com (tbone.agouron.com [198.182.177.3]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id KAA26654 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 10:39:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from gproxy@localhost) by tbone.agouron.com (8.9.1a/8.8.7) id IAA11755 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 08:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns3-wla.agouron.com(192.135.144.6), claiming to be "dns3.agouron.com" via SMTP by gauntlet.agouron.com, id smtpdAAAa002rQ; Mon May 10 08:39:37 1999 Received: from agouron.com (ray.dhcp.agouron.com [10.0.6.192]) by dns3.agouron.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA17948 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 08:39:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ray ) Message-ID: <3736FD9C.AA830D91 > Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:39:08 -0700 From: Ray Ghanbari Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Organization: Agouron Pharmaceuticals Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Asteroids Deluxe References: <3736F384.1E3F46A7 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Ben Cole wrote: > > Dear Vectorlist Gurus, > > My Asteroids Deluxe recently started having a little intermittent > trouble with the buttons. While rotating and thrusting, pressing fire > will interrupt the rotation of the ship, resulting in no rotate or fire. > I put in brand new switch contacts but once in a while it will still do > it. Sometimes it is very often other times once in a great while. I > double checked the wire harness and connectors and they seem to be > fine. ( .03 ohms from the switch contacts to the main board and self > test seems ok, all switches respond ) > Has anyone ever run into this problem? Should I be looking at the inputs > to the J10 and L10 data/sel/multiplexer, or the IC's ? Intermittent > fault makes me think wiring, or switches, or main board connector, or > wire traces on main board. > Ben Cole It's been three years since I had a similar problem, so my memory may be faulty, but check out the POKEY chip. Does it consistently pass self test? Replace it and see if your problem goes away. Ray From saint Mon May 10 11:55:23 1999 Received: from b.mx.crl.com (bmx.crl.com [165.113.1.81]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id LAA01769 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 11:55:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from crl.crl.com (crl.com [165.113.1.12]) by b.mx.crl.com (8.8.7/) via SMTP id JAA08431 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 09:55:05 -0700 (PDT) env-from (saint ) Received: by crl.crl.com id AA11761 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu); Mon, 10 May 1999 09:47:12 -0700 Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:47:11 -0700 (PDT) From: "John St.Clair" To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Something to Bookmark In-Reply-To: <3736FBBA.1C1F7AFC > Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I think I'm going to do exactly this. Thank you :) On Mon, 10 May 1999, Ray Ghanbari wrote: > John St.Clair wrote: > > > > Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I'm really really leery about putting > > this page up publically. Anyone else think I should just bag it? > > > Don't put it up. > > Suggest a page detailing why it is dangerous as hell to even poke around > a monitor (of any kind). > > Insist people have a TV repairman do the discharge for them. That way > they can learn by watching. > > This is asking for trouble (remember the bell curve...for every Stephen > Hawking, there is a Homer Simpson) > > Ray > > From bovine@eecs.umich.edu Mon May 10 12:13:01 1999 Received: from quip.eecs.umich.edu (quip.eecs.umich.edu [141.213.4.25]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id MAA03264 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 12:12:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (bovine@localhost) by quip.eecs.umich.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA27664 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 13:12:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:12:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Mitchell Rohde To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Something to Bookmark In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN but, gee, the more idiots that shock themselves, the less there are running up the prices at the auctions. I vote put it up and encourage people to lick their fingers before they start servicing... hehhehe Mitch On Mon, 10 May 1999, John St.Clair wrote: > I think I'm going to do exactly this. Thank you :) > > On Mon, 10 May 1999, Ray Ghanbari wrote: > > > John St.Clair wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I'm really really leery about putting > > > this page up publically. Anyone else think I should just bag it? > > > > > > Don't put it up. > > > > Suggest a page detailing why it is dangerous as hell to even poke around > > a monitor (of any kind). > > > > Insist people have a TV repairman do the discharge for them. That way > > they can learn by watching. > > > > This is asking for trouble (remember the bell curve...for every Stephen > > Hawking, there is a Homer Simpson) > > > > Ray > > > > > > From dshirk Mon May 10 12:26:39 1999 Received: from emailserver.redrose.net (mail.godfrey.com [208.157.105.8]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.25) with ESMTP id MAA04144 for ; Mon,