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From: "peter jones" <highwayman2000@mail.ru>
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re[2]: VECTOR: Asteroids hack
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-----Original Message-----
From: Jenison Mark-QA3578 <Mark.Jenison >
To: "'vectorlist >
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:23:57 -0500
Subject: RE: VECTOR: Asteroids hack

> 
> Let me get this straight...you converted a Lunar Lander board to play Asteroids?  Why would you want to do that??  Are you going to now convert your Quantum board to play Space Duel??? ;-)
> 
is that a joke?
can i really convert space-duel to play quantum????????????
DAMN, I AM GOING TO HAVE TO STUDY THE SCHEMATICS NOW - I HOPE YOU ARE NOT JOKING!

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From owner-vectorlist   Tue May  1 00:49:41 2001
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From: "peter jones" <highwayman2000@mail.ru>
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Subject: Re[2]: VECTOR: Asteroids hack
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-----Original Message-----
From: Tom McClintock <tomm >
To: vectorlist 
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 19:21:09 -0500
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids hack

> 
> Peter:
> 
> You cannot convert a Space Duel into a Quantum. VERY different. You can, however, convert a Space Duel into a Gravitar or Black Widow. All you need to do is add scaling, and that's about it.
> Someone is going to work that one out pretty soon. Right Mark?
> 
> tm
Wow, this is the best week vectorlist has had i think!.
lots of conversion stuff and not just repair problems!

R U sure quantum cant be made from something else? 
i know it's 16bit,but thats no problem.
time to study the memmorymaps in mame i think :)

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From owner-vectorlist   Tue May  1 15:14:53 2001
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From: Todd Miller <Todd.Miller >
To: "'vectorlist >
Subject: VECTOR: FS: G08 chassis, less tube
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 14:55:52 -0400 
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I was doing some cleaning out of the basement this weekend and I 
ran across a G08 chassis.  This was a monitor that I started working on 
a few years ago until I cracked the neck and got mad and just stowed it 
away.  It is complete less the tube and the screen/focus pot that I must 
have robbed off the HV unit.  It's the metal frame, HV unit, heat sink/fan 
block, deflection board, yoke, neck PCB and rings, degauss coil and misc. 
screws. I don't even remember what was wrong with it, if interested,
LMK - $75 shipped UPS in the US 

Todd Miller, LAN Administrator
Ron Weber and  Associates
103 E. State Street, Mason City, IA 50401
(641)423-4293/(641)423-4594 FAX
http://www.telethinking.com
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From owner-vectorlist   Tue May  1 15:53:25 2001
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From: Todd Miller <Todd.Miller >
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Subject: VECTOR: FS: G08 chassis, less tube - SOLD
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 15:34:32 -0400 
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Sold !

	Thanks guys ! 

> Todd Miller, LAN Administrator
> Ron Weber and  Associates
> 103 E. State Street, Mason City, IA 50401
> (641)423-4293/(641)423-4594 FAX
> http://www.telethinking.com
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From owner-vectorlist   Tue May  1 17:04:26 2001
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Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 15:58:35 -0500
From: tom mcclintock <tomm >
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Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids hack
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Ok, ok. This Lunar Lander hack was admirably not done by me. I have
trouble determining the ass-end of a PCB (they have ass-ends don't
they?). This Lunar Lander hack was found by Callan Hendricks here in
Dallas, but that's about all I know. There was an attempt to start the
board, but it gave no signs of life, so back on the self it went. There
are a number of empty sockets (EPROMs and a couple others) so I'm not
100% certain there shouldn't be a daughterboard of some kind on there.

While doing a little research I found those ads for the Lunar Lander
hack in the StarTech Journal. I suspect the two places selling the
'hack' didn't sell that many - especially when you consider you could
buy a slightly used Asteroids (working) in 1981-1982 for only a little
more than this Lunar Lander to Asteroids hack - $650. Adjusted for
inflation, that's about $1,100 in today's money. Huh?!?

I agree it would be much better (and most cost effective) for someone to
develop a multigame on an Asteroids or Asteroids Deluxe platform. But
out of curiosity, doesn't anyone on this list have one of these hacked
Lunar Lander boards, or any of the other hacks? Star Castle speed-up
kit?


tom


Neil Bradley wrote:
> 
> > > That's primarily the reason I started on an Asteroids Deluxe board - it
> > > has the largest set of features for all boards. Of course it doesn't have
> > > the thump sound in Asteroids, but I can fake it with the Pokey.
> > Another thing to think about is availability.  Of the three, there are
> > probably more Asteroids boards around than anything else. I think that's why
> > Clay picked the Asteroids board as the basis for his project.
> 
> And I picked the Asteroids Deluxe boardset because it's capable of doing
> everything the other two boards can do. The Asteroids board lacks a Pokey,
> so getting Deluxe to run on it would require far more hardware to make it
> run.
> 
> -->Neil
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Neil Bradley            Play a song wrong once and it's a mistake.
> Synthcom Systems, Inc.  Play a song wrong twice and it's Jazz.
> ICQ #29402898
> 
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From owner-vectorlist   Tue May  1 17:17:09 2001
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Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 14:05:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Neil Bradley <neil >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids hack
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> Ok, ok. This Lunar Lander hack was admirably not done by me. I have
> trouble determining the ass-end of a PCB (they have ass-ends don't
> they?).

Some PCBs, like my Asteroids Deluxe board, has nothing but ass ends. It
even has grown a buttcrack!

> board, but it gave no signs of life, so back on the self it went. There
> are a number of empty sockets (EPROMs and a couple others) so I'm not
> 100% certain there shouldn't be a daughterboard of some kind on there.

I'm 99.9% certain there should be due to Lunar Lander lacking some of the
sounds that Asteroids has.

> While doing a little research I found those ads for the Lunar Lander
> hack in the StarTech Journal. I suspect the two places selling the
> 'hack' didn't sell that many - especially when you consider you could
> buy a slightly used Asteroids (working) in 1981-1982 for only a little
> more than this Lunar Lander to Asteroids hack - $650. Adjusted for
> inflation, that's about $1,100 in today's money. Huh?!?

Yeah. I can't believe some of the crap, like making the ship firing more
accurate is $75. Literally, that's changing a randomize percentage from
15% down to 0%. It's literally a one byte change in the code.

-->Neil

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neil Bradley            Play a song wrong once and it's a mistake.
Synthcom Systems, Inc.  Play a song wrong twice and it's Jazz. 
ICQ #29402898	       

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From owner-vectorlist   Tue May  1 18:01:30 2001
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From: Zonn <zonn >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids hack
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 14:47:32 -0700
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On Tue, 01 May 2001 15:58:35 -0500, tom mcclintock <tomm > wrote:

>But
>out of curiosity, doesn't anyone on this list have one of these hacked
>Lunar Lander boards, or any of the other hacks? Star Castle speed-up
>kit?

The Star Castle speed up came from Cinematronics themselves.  It's referred to
as Version 3 Star Castle (probably from the V3's written on the label).

It's just a ROM swap, they speeded up the Fireball's speed, and they greased the
bearings on the gun inside the rings (it spins faster from the get go, as it
attempts to track you).

I believe the ROMs are pretty readily available on one of those MAME ROM sites.

-Zonn
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From owner-vectorlist   Tue May  1 18:08:21 2001
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Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 14:54:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Teaganm <teaganm >
Subject: Re: Re[2]: VECTOR: Asteroids hack
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--- peter jones <highwayman2000@mail.ru> wrote:
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jenison Mark-QA3578 <Mark.Jenison >
> To: "'vectorlist >
> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:23:57 -0500
> Subject: RE: VECTOR: Asteroids hack
> 
> > 
> > Let me get this straight...you converted a Lunar Lander board to play
> Asteroids?  Why would you want to do that??  Are you going to now
> convert your Quantum board to play Space Duel??? ;-)
> > 
> is that a joke?
> can i really convert space-duel to play quantum????????????
> DAMN, I AM GOING TO HAVE TO STUDY THE SCHEMATICS NOW - I HOPE YOU ARE
> NOT JOKING!
> 
>
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__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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From owner-vectorlist   Tue May  1 18:23:12 2001
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From: MKDUD 
Message-ID: <9e.13a243f7.28208d0b >
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 18:04:59 EDT
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids hack
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In a message dated 5/1/2001 5:04:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
neil  writes:

<< Yeah. I can't believe some of the crap, like making the ship firing more
 accurate is $75. Literally, that's changing a randomize percentage from
 15% down to 0%. It's literally a one byte change in the code. >>

Sounds simple enough for us now. However, when you consider that this single 
modified rom could reduce & eliminate players from "lurking" and "cruising" 
on the machine for hours, $75 was a small price to pay at that time. An 
Asteroids machine in a POOR location would probably earn more than $200 a 
week in 1981. If the players start learning to "lurk" and "cruise", this $200 
per week could really drop. The modified rom @ $75 was a way to get the 
earnings back at a minimal investment.

MK  
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From owner-vectorlist   Tue May  1 18:34:25 2001
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Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 15:25:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Neil Bradley <neil >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids hack
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> << Yeah. I can't believe some of the crap, like making the ship firing more
>  accurate is $75. Literally, that's changing a randomize percentage from
>  15% down to 0%. It's literally a one byte change in the code. >>
> Sounds simple enough for us now. However, when you consider that this single 
> modified rom could reduce & eliminate players from "lurking" and "cruising" 
> on the machine for hours, $75 was a small price to pay at that time. An 
> Asteroids machine in a POOR location would probably earn more than $200 a 
> week in 1981.

Ship hunting? This "fix" would only nail the player if there was no
velocity. Asteroids didn't take ship velocity in to account when
calculating the shot trajectory. Asteroids Deluxe does.

-->Neil

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neil Bradley            Play a song wrong once and it's a mistake.
Synthcom Systems, Inc.  Play a song wrong twice and it's Jazz. 
ICQ #29402898	       

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From owner-vectorlist   Tue May  1 19:39:46 2001
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Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 16:28:15 -0700
To: vectorlist 
From: Jonathan Koolpe <jkoolpe@itsa.ucsf.edu>
Subject: VECTOR: I had to try...
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Hey Scott!


If you ever want to let that I, Robot go for $1500, I'm your man!  I
know...I know...it's a beauty and you want more for it (what was your
reserve, anyways?), but I just had to try:)...

I do look forward to your house-warming party when you get everything fixed
up in your new place there...

Later,

Jonathan

Jonathan Koolpe
Staff Research Associate
University of California, San Francisco
Department of Microbiology & Immunology
Tel: (415) 476-9371   Fax:  (415) 476-8201
mail to: jkoolpe 
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From owner-vectorlist   Tue May  1 20:44:35 2001
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From: "peter jones" <highwayman2000@mail.ru>
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re[2]: VECTOR: Assistance please...
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-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Bradley <neil >
To: vectorlist 
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:45:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Assistance please...

> 
> > << I'm now completely baffled. Does anyone have any suggestions as to
> >  where/how to start debugging this problem? I have all the parts I need to
> >  continue my vector hack and I'd like to get it going again. >>
> > I'd socket & replace the 74LS245 @ F1 first.
> 
> I think you meant the 74LS245 @ P1. F1 Is an EPROM socket.
> 
> Man, I just don't know what the problem is. I wound up writing a program
> that just bangs 0ffh/00h to the entirety of vector RAM repeatedly. I've
> troubleshot for the last couple of hours and have done the following:
> 
> * Swapped out all 2114s again just to make sure
> * Replaced the AMD 8304B with a 74LS245 (and yes, I soldered the socket
> down in the proper row of leads)
> * Verified that the DB lines were all toggling as expected (at the 245,
> the EPROM sockets, and the 2114s)
> * Verified that the AMxx lines were all toggling as expected (at all of
> the LS157s and both EPROM and 2214s)
> * Verified R/!W is reaching the 245 and is toggling
> * Verified !VMEM is present at every LS157
> * Verified that all of the AB0-AB12 lines were toggling out the side of
> all LS157s
> * Verified that the LS139 @ L2 keeps !VRAM low (since that's all my test
> does)
> * Verified that !VROM1/!VROM2 are always high (it's supposed to since I'm
> not accessing them)
> * Verified the 74LS32 @ M4 is giving toggled results as expected on both
> inputs and outputs
> * Verified the LS04 @ L4 is inverting as it should
> * Verified that !VRAM and M10 are making it to the 74LS32 and 74LS04
> respectively
> 
> I did have one bad 2114 that stuck DB6 low, and another that stuck DB5
> low. Now that none stick, I've hooked back up the EPROMs and I still get
> the 2 high/1 low beep. ;-(
> 
> Any suggestions at all? I'm not sure where to turn
 next!
> 
> -->Neil
> 

Try another 6502 cpu???

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From owner-vectorlist   Tue May  1 20:45:20 2001
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Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 17:31:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Neil Bradley <neil >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: Re[2]: VECTOR: Assistance please...
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> > I did have one bad 2114 that stuck DB6 low, and another that stuck DB5
> > low. Now that none stick, I've hooked back up the EPROMs and I still get
> > the 2 high/1 low beep. ;-(
> Try another 6502 cpu???

The 2 high/1 low beep means the CPU is running. Plus, even my own custom
code writes the correct pattern out the bus, so I'm confident the CPU is
working.

-->Neil

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Neil Bradley            Play a song wrong once and it's a mistake.
Synthcom Systems, Inc.  Play a song wrong twice and it's Jazz. 
ICQ #29402898	       

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From: solarfox 
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: Re[2]: VECTOR: Assistance please...
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 19:52:41 -0500
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On Tue, 1 May 2001 17:31:24 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>The 2 high/1 low beep means the CPU is running. Plus, even my own custom
>code writes the correct pattern out the bus, so I'm confident the CPU is
>working.

	Have you tried changing your diagnostic code to run an AAh/55h or a
walking-bit (00h/01h/02h/04h/08h/10h/20h/40h/80h) pattern?  If you've got
data lines shorted together somehow, either by a failure in one of the
buffer chips or by a solder ball, you won't be able to see it with an
00h/FFh test.

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"There is no virtue in suffering fools gladly, for it only encourages them to
persist in their foolishness."                                --Kehlog Albran
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solarfox                               (Gary Akins jr.)
http://lonestar.texas.net/~solarfox
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From owner-vectorlist   Tue May  1 21:16:36 2001
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From: "Gregg Woodcock" <woodcock@fastlane.net>
To: <vectorlist >
References: <9e.13a243f7.28208d0b >
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids hack
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 20:11:27 -0500
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I am more intrigued by your interesting connector contraption pictured in
this hack than by anything else.  It would appear to me to be a female edge
.156 PCB edge connector of wire wrap type pushed into a header pin female
connector.  This is quite clever to me as it allows for VERY quick
reconfiguration just by popping out the pins and rearranging them.  Plus it
makes the edge connector piece (the piece that gets old and worn out and
have poor connectivity) easily replaced.  Tell us more about this design...

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Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids hack
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Gregg:

You will have to ask Callan about that. Callan? It plugs into his PAT9000... :)

In the spirit of finding neat vector things in the periphery of pictures, here
is a link to many vector games and related items. See what you can spot!

http://www.ionpool.net/arcade/callan/callan.html


tm

Gregg Woodcock wrote:

> I am more intrigued by your interesting connector contraption pictured in
> this hack than by anything else.  It would appear to me to be a female edge
> .156 PCB edge connector of wire wrap type pushed into a header pin female
> connector.  This is quite clever to me as it allows for VERY quick
> reconfiguration just by popping out the pins and rearranging them.  Plus it
> makes the edge connector piece (the piece that gets old and worn out and
> have poor connectivity) easily replaced.  Tell us more about this design...
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: SVerlander 
Message-ID: <88.600eae0.2820b843 >
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 21:09:23 EDT
Subject: VECTOR: Found sorce for SK7330 Hi-voltage rectifier for G05
To: vectorlist 
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I found a source for the SK7330 Silicon Stick Rectifier which is supposed to 
replace the original one in the G05 monitors. I found them at Moyer 
Electronic Supply Co. and ordered 4 using there on-line order web site. That 
was on 4\14\01. I got an email on 4\17\01 to notify me they were out of stock 
and had to reorder and should only take a week. Today 5\1\01, I received them 
in the mail. They were $5.70 ea. plus $5.50 UPS shipping. I scanned a PIC of 
one so you can see what they look like. Here is the link,
 <A HREF="http://www.members.aol.com/sverlander/sk7330.jpg">http://www.members.aol.com/sverlander/sk7330.jpg</A> 

My question now is how do they install? I have one Hi-voltage unit that it 
was missing. There are what looks like a cap on each end of the wires with 
what looks like a spring in each, almost like a fuse holder. The SK7330 has a 
wire coming off each end. My other HI-voltage unit has one installed and 
looks to have the same setup but it looks like it is put together with some 
type of black goo and I don't want to take it apart until I test it to see if 
it works. Not ready for that yet as I still haven't found an Asteroids 
Cabinet to put all the guts into yet. Just trying to get as much done as I 
can till I get to that point.
Thanks for any help.
I also put together a web page with a few of my games on it. It is my first 
attempt and I am lucky it even works. I hope to get better at it ,as I learn 
more about how they work. don't laugh please :-)
 <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/sverlander/">Sam's Classic Arcade Site</A> 
http://members.aol.com/sverlander/

Thanks for looking,
Sam

--part1_88.600eae0.2820b843_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="StarTrek Film BT" LANG="0">I found a source for the SK7330 Silicon Stick Rectifier which is supposed to 
<BR>replace the original one in the G05 monitors. I found them at Moyer 
<BR>Electronic Supply Co. and ordered 4 using there on-line order web site. That 
<BR>was on 4\14\01. I got an email on 4\17\01 to notify me they were out of stock 
<BR>and had to reorder and should only take a week. Today 5\1\01, I received them 
<BR>in the mail. They were $5.70 ea. plus $5.50 UPS shipping. I scanned a PIC of 
<BR>one so you can see what they look like. Here is the link,
<BR> <A HREF="http://www.members.aol.com/sverlander/sk7330.jpg">http://www.members.aol.com/sverlander/sk7330.jpg</A> 
<BR>
<BR>My question now is how do they install? I have one Hi-voltage unit that it 
<BR>was missing. There are what looks like a cap on each end of the wires with 
<BR>what looks like a spring in each, almost like a fuse holder. The SK7330 has a 
<BR>wire coming off each end. My other HI-voltage unit has one installed and 
<BR>looks to have the same setup but it looks like it is put together with some 
<BR>type of black goo and I don't want to take it apart until I test it to see if 
<BR>it works. Not ready for that yet as I still haven't found an Asteroids 
<BR>Cabinet to put all the guts into yet. Just trying to get as much done as I 
<BR>can till I get to that point.
<BR>Thanks for any help.
<BR>I also put together a web page with a few of my games on it. It is my first 
<BR>attempt and I am lucky it even works. I hope to get better at it ,as I learn 
<BR>more about how they work. don't laugh please :-)
<BR> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/sverlander/">Sam's Classic Arcade Site</A> 
<BR>http://members.aol.com/sverlander/
<BR>
<BR>Thanks for looking,
<BR>Sam</FONT></HTML>

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From owner-vectorlist   Wed May  2 00:21:32 2001
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Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 20:53:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jonathan Koolpe <jkoolpe@itsa.ucsf.edu>
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: VECTOR: I had to try...
In-Reply-To: <v03007801b714f603ed0b@[128.218.113.19]>
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> Hey Scott!
> 
> 
> If you ever want to let that I, Robot go for $1500, I'm your man!  I
> know...I know...it's a beauty and you want more for it (what was your
> reserve, anyways?), but I just had to try:)...
> 
> I do look forward to your house-warming party when you get everything fixed
> up in your new place there...
> 
> Later,
> 
> Jonathan
> 

Terribly sorry guys!  I hate it when I do that!  Hit the reply button with
send to "vectorlist.":(.  It was meant to be private...really!

Jonathan

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From: "Callan Hendricks" <callanh@flash.net>
To: <vectorlist >
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Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids hack
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Gregg should have known that... He had a Pat9000 at one time...

Shame on you Gregg!

As for the Lunar Lander hack... I know for a fact it was done by a company
in Dallas.  Being that both the adds in StarTech were from somewhere else,
I'm not certain if this hack required a peripheral board or not...

> Gregg:
>
> You will have to ask Callan about that. Callan? It plugs into his
PAT9000... :)
>
> In the spirit of finding neat vector things in the periphery of pictures,
here
> is a link to many vector games and related items. See what you can spot!
>
> http://www.ionpool.net/arcade/callan/callan.html
>
>
> tm
>
> Gregg Woodcock wrote:
>
> > I am more intrigued by your interesting connector contraption pictured
in
> > this hack than by anything else.  It would appear to me to be a female
edge
> > .156 PCB edge connector of wire wrap type pushed into a header pin
female
> > connector.  This is quite clever to me as it allows for VERY quick
> > reconfiguration just by popping out the pins and rearranging them.  Plus
it
> > makes the edge connector piece (the piece that gets old and worn out and
> > have poor connectivity) easily replaced.  Tell us more about this
design...
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 10:10:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Christopher X. Candreva" <chris >
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Subject: Re: VECTOR: Found sorce for SK7330 Hi-voltage rectifier for G05
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On Tue, 1 May 2001 SVerlander  wrote:

> My question now is how do they install? I have one Hi-voltage unit that
> it was missing. There are what looks like a cap on each end of the wires

The old ones fit in like a socket. If you can do that, it's ideal.

The new one is bigger though, and usually people solder in it.  You will
need some sort of high-voltage insultation -- something that has a
dielectric strength that can handle the 10k+ volts.  Normal electrical tape
can handle around 300v, and the HV will burn through it.

I got some high voltage split tubing from a local repair shop.  I've also
used the old sockets as insultation.

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris  -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/

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From: "peter jones" <highwayman2000@mail.ru>
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Found sorce for SK7330 Hi-voltage rectifier for G05
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-----Original Message-----
From: SVerlander 
To: vectorlist 
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 21:09:23 EDT
Subject: VECTOR: Found sorce for SK7330 Hi-voltage rectifier for G05

> 

bla-bla-bla

> I also put together a web page with a few of my games on it. It is my first 
> attempt and I am lucky it even works. I hope to get better at it ,as I learn 
> more about how they work. don't laugh please :-)
>  <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/sverlander/">Sam's Classic Arcade Site</A> 
> http://members.aol.com/sverlander/
> 
> Thanks for looking,
> Sam
> 
not too clever sam!
a word from the wise, do-not use active-x or any other microsoft crap.
It wont work on my linux box,it also wont work for apple users.
C.U.

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Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 09:49:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Christopher X. Candreva" <chris >
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Subject: Re: VECTOR: Found sorce for SK7330 Hi-voltage rectifier for G05
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On Thu, 3 May 2001, peter jones wrote:

> >  <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/sverlander/">Sam's Classic Arcade Site</A>
> > http://members.aol.com/sverlander/

> a word from the wise, do-not use active-x or any other microsoft crap.
> It wont work on my linux box,it also wont work for apple users.

Looks OK in Linux Netscape here -- though obviously I don't know what
I'mmissing.

The counter shows up on the Star Trek cockpit text, and things are a bit
cramped -- but we're amatures, right ?  It's not like it's a blank page or
anything.

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris  -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/

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From owner-vectorlist   Thu May  3 10:48:11 2001
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Message-ID: <3AF16BD8.752DA7A@dingoblue.net.au>
Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 00:31:55 +1000
From: Paul Sommers <rgvac_aust@dingoblue.net.au>
Organization: Magic Lantern Company
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Have to agree! Sorry!

I have a Mac so everything Microsoft is disabled. Disabled the machine runs 3
months without a crash. enabled.... 30 minutes!!!

Again - sorry!

MacMan

peter jones wrote:
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SVerlander 
> To: vectorlist 
> Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 21:09:23 EDT
> Subject: VECTOR: Found sorce for SK7330 Hi-voltage rectifier for G05
> 
> >
> 
> bla-bla-bla
> 
> > I also put together a web page with a few of my games on it. It is my first
> > attempt and I am lucky it even works. I hope to get better at it ,as I learn
> > more about how they work. don't laugh please :-)
> >  <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/sverlander/">Sam's Classic Arcade Site</A>
> > http://members.aol.com/sverlander/
> >
> > Thanks for looking,
> > Sam
> >
> not too clever sam!
> a word from the wise, do-not use active-x or any other microsoft crap.
> It wont work on my linux box,it also wont work for apple users.
> C.U.
> 
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From owner-vectorlist   Thu May  3 11:18:29 2001
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From: "Dan" <dansmsn >
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Subject: Re: VECTOR: Found sorce for SK7330 Hi-voltage rectifier for G05
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 07:57:41 -0700
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Were not going to let this list decay into yet another Microsoft bashing
forum are we?

Peter - interesting page, can you link the photos to larger versions?  It
would be nice to see more details.

-Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Sommers" <rgvac_aust@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <vectorlist >
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Found sorce for SK7330 Hi-voltage rectifier for G05


> Have to agree! Sorry!
>
> I have a Mac so everything Microsoft is disabled. Disabled the machine
runs 3
> months without a crash. enabled.... 30 minutes!!!
>
> Again - sorry!
>
> MacMan
>


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From owner-vectorlist   Thu May  3 11:41:42 2001
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Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 08:24:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Neil Bradley <neil >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Found sorce for SK7330 Hi-voltage rectifier for G05
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> Were not going to let this list decay into yet another Microsoft bashing
> forum are we?

Yes, please keep it on topic.

-->Neil

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neil Bradley            C++ - A language where you can make your
Synthcom Systems, Inc.        privates public
ICQ #29402898	       

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From owner-vectorlist   Sat May  5 14:33:52 2001
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From: "Clay Cowgill" <vector_clay >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids hack
Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 11:22:47 -0700
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> > Clay picked the Asteroids board as the basis for his project.
>
>And I picked the Asteroids Deluxe boardset because it's capable of doing
>everything the other two boards can do. The Asteroids board lacks a Pokey,
>so getting Deluxe to run on it would require far more hardware to make it
>run.

Hi all...

I've been off in my own little world the last few weeks, so I'm *way* behind 
in vector-list email. ;-)

Anyway, yes-- I chose Asteroids as the base for my kit for two main reasons:

  1) More common.  Go with the bigger target market...
  2) Already has all the analog sound hardware for Asteroids.

I didn't want to try to recreate the analog sounds in hardware, and I didn't 
want to hack the Asteroids Deluxe sound routines into LL or AST, so I liked 
the Asteroids board.  (I figure that the Asteroids thrust sound will be OK 
in LL)

Here's a few misc. thoughts about the past threads I just read.  In no 
particular order:

[Overclocking] - I'd think that it's possible, but I suspect you'll need to 
isolate the CPU memory to make it work (basically fast EPROM and SRAM with 
the CPU for program code and data).  Might have to make it software 
switchable to allow the CPU to shift gears to load the VG RAM unless you 
want to replace that and the VG EPROM with faster stuff too.

[Overclocking] - Ed and I talked about this a long time and figured the best 
way to do it would be to roll something like  http://www.free-ip.com/6502/ 
into a Virtex or Spartan FPGA.  Plenty fast then. :-)  The lack of BCD would 
be a problem for Atari stuff IIRC, so that would have to get fixed.

[Overclocking] - If my memory serves, Asteroids runs essentially async from 
the VSM.  Every 30mS (or something) the VSM does a redraws (maybe triggered 
from the IRQ for the CPU?)-- if the game code has lots more cycles to do 
stuff because of a faster CPU, all the better.  As long as the VSM can still 
get at the VRAM and VGROM all should be well.  (Vector Breakout uses a 
similar technique-- the "main loop" actually runs around 4-5 times 
completely through in between every screen refresh.  That allows me to do 
what amounts to "sub-sampling" on the ball position, so even when the ball 
speeds up (moves more per frame) the hit accuracy on the bricks stays 
constant.

[Old game enhancement kits] - Those are cool!  They might look pretty 
expensive by today's standards ($75 for a one byte patch for faster firing), 
but back then that kind of stuff was much harder to do!  EPROM readers, 
burners, and development tools were *way* different then (and horribly 
expensive), so even something simple by today's standards was a big task.  
(In the pre-MAME days when I did my hacks to Astro Blaster for faster gun 
cooling and slower fuel consumption I had to read the ROMs, disassemble the 
code, and then sit there with my EPROM emulator and a little home-made 
"trigger" widget and a logic analyzer to track down what different things 
did in the code.  Took about two evenings of work to get both patches in.  
If I had to burn EPROMs every time, and didn't have the logic analyzer 
(~$10K new when Astro Blaster came out!) it would have taken a *long* 
time...  By contrast, with MAME now those same hacks would take about 8 
minutes. ;-)

I'd best get back to soldering...

-Clay
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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From owner-vectorlist   Sat May  5 16:12:49 2001
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Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 13:05:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Neil Bradley <neil >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids hack
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>   1) More common.  Go with the bigger target market...
>   2) Already has all the analog sound hardware for Asteroids.

Except there'll be many missing Deluxe sounds, and the Asteroids sounds
can be approxmiated with the pokey that's on the Deluxe.

> I didn't want to try to recreate the analog sounds in hardware, and I didn't 
> want to hack the Asteroids Deluxe sound routines into LL or AST, so I liked 
> the Asteroids board.  (I figure that the Asteroids thrust sound will be OK 
> in LL)

Avoiding making software changes and doing it in hardware, eh? ;-)

> [Overclocking] - Ed and I talked about this a long time and figured the best 
> way to do it would be to roll something like  http://www.free-ip.com/6502/ 
> into a Virtex or Spartan FPGA.  Plenty fast then. :-)  The lack of BCD would 
> be a problem for Atari stuff IIRC, so that would have to get fixed.

Apparently the 65C02 has higher clock rate versions, too. I'm just looking
for a source for them.

> [Overclocking] - If my memory serves, Asteroids runs essentially async from 
> the VSM. 

Completely async. It runs at exactly 45 redraws per second, which is
around 22.2ms. It's actually computed in foreground code and the
foreground code spins on a semaphore that's clocked off the NMI.

> from the IRQ for the CPU?)-- if the game code has lots more cycles to do 
> stuff because of a faster CPU, all the better.

Bingo. Sometimes the 1Mhz Asteroids would start flickering if there was
lots of activity. As it's coded now, if the foreground code can't do it
fast enough, it'll effectively "skip" drawing a frame.

-->Neil

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Neil Bradley            C++ - A language where you can make your
Synthcom Systems, Inc.        privates public
ICQ #29402898	       

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From owner-vectorlist   Sat May  5 18:01:53 2001
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Message-ID: <3AF47663.F959C985@cedar-rapids.net>
Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 16:53:40 -0500
From: Rodger Boots <rlboots@cedar-rapids.net>
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Easy enough, Western Design Center (supposedly the chief engineer there was a
designer of the original 6502?) has not only 1 and 2 MHz versions, but also a 14
MHz (!) version that can be run anywhere between DC and 14 MHz.  Their website is
at http://www.westerndesigncenter.com/chips.html

They even offer them in core forms to put in a gate array.  Price on that probably
wouldn't be practical for your purposes, though.


Neil Bradley wrote:

> > [Overclocking] - Ed and I talked about this a long time and figured the best
> > way to do it would be to roll something like  http://www.free-ip.com/6502/
> > into a Virtex or Spartan FPGA.  Plenty fast then. :-)  The lack of BCD would
> > be a problem for Atari stuff IIRC, so that would have to get fixed.
>
> Apparently the 65C02 has higher clock rate versions, too. I'm just looking
> for a source for them.

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From owner-vectorlist   Sat May  5 18:10:44 2001
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Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 17:02:00 -0500
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The part number for the 14 MHz part in a 40-pin DIP is W65C02S8P-14.

Rodger Boots wrote:

> Easy enough, Western Design Center (supposedly the chief engineer there was a
> designer of the original 6502?) has not only 1 and 2 MHz versions, but also a 14
> MHz (!) version that can be run anywhere between DC and 14 MHz.  Their website is
> at http://www.westerndesigncenter.com/chips.html
>
> They even offer them in core forms to put in a gate array.  Price on that probably
> wouldn't be practical for your purposes, though.
>
> Neil Bradley wrote:
>
> > > [Overclocking] - Ed and I talked about this a long time and figured the best
> > > way to do it would be to roll something like  http://www.free-ip.com/6502/
> > > into a Virtex or Spartan FPGA.  Plenty fast then. :-)  The lack of BCD would
> > > be a problem for Atari stuff IIRC, so that would have to get fixed.
> >
> > Apparently the 65C02 has higher clock rate versions, too. I'm just looking
> > for a source for them.
>
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Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 00:57:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Christopher X. Candreva" <chris >
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On Sat, 5 May 2001, Neil Bradley wrote:

> >   1) More common.  Go with the bigger target market...
> >   2) Already has all the analog sound hardware for Asteroids.
>
> Except there'll be many missing Deluxe sounds, and the Asteroids sounds
> can be approxmiated with the pokey that's on the Deluxe.

Clay's design involved adding a POKEY to the Asteroids board.  Plenty of
those around from Ball Blazer's carts.



==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris  -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/

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Subject: Re: VECTOR: Found sorce for SK7330 Hi-voltage rectifier for G05
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher X. Candreva" <chris >
To: <vectorlist >
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Found sorce for SK7330 Hi-voltage rectifier for
G05


> On Tue, 1 May 2001 SVerlander  wrote:
>
> > My question now is how do they install? I have one Hi-voltage unit
that
> > it was missing. There are what looks like a cap on each end of the
wires
>
> The old ones fit in like a socket. If you can do that, it's ideal.

The SK7330 I just tried fit right in the sleeves and was the same
diameter of the original H1809....

James Hagen




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Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 02:20:17 -0400
From: Dan Piraino <dpiraino >
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I found out that both the Amplifone and the electrohome GO7 CBO us the
same tube.
The 19VJTP22. The question is would a deflection yoke from a GO7 work
attached to an XY deflection board?. Is there a major difference between
raster deflection yokes and XY deflection yokes? Can one function as the
other?
Thanks,
Dan Piraino

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From owner-vectorlist   Sun May  6 07:28:57 2001
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Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 11:41:37 +0100
To: vectorlist 
From: Dave Langley <robotron >
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Amplifone tube and deflection yoke question
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At 07:20 am 6 05 01, you wrote:
>I found out that both the Amplifone and the electrohome GO7 CBO us the
>same tube.
>The 19VJTP22. The question is would a deflection yoke from a GO7 work
>attached to an XY deflection board?. Is there a major difference between
>raster deflection yokes and XY deflection yokes? Can one function as the
>other?

Further to this, there's been a lot of talk of replacing the tube on WG XY 
monitors recently, does anyone know of a source of Amplifone replacement 
tubes, either 19" or 25"?



Dave Langley
www.robotron-2084.co.uk

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From owner-vectorlist   Sun May  6 09:43:30 2001
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Message-ID: <001e01c0d631$d4235200$41b1ff3e@hal9000>
From: "Andy Welburn" <warlords >
To: <vectorlist >
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Subject: Re: VECTOR: Amplifone tube and deflection yoke question
Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 14:37:39 +0100
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no

you cannot use the deflection yoke from the G07 tube with a vector
deflection board.. this is the main sticking point in getting hold of modern
XY monitors..

The horizontal deflection would probably cope, but vertical deflection
winding would definately not...

In an ideal world... :) heh

Andy.


> I found out that both the Amplifone and the electrohome GO7 CBO us the
> same tube.
> The 19VJTP22. The question is would a deflection yoke from a GO7 work
> attached to an XY deflection board?. Is there a major difference between
> raster deflection yokes and XY deflection yokes? Can one function as the
> other?
> Thanks,
> Dan Piraino


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From owner-vectorlist   Mon May  7 23:01:26 2001
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Message-ID: <3AF75ECD.CBEC9AB6@voyager.net>
Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 22:49:49 -0400
From: Bryan Kruzynski <tron@voyager.net>
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   My Tempest has a picture that is only about 2 inches wide.  Height is
ok, gameplay seems to be ok.  When I went to adjust the X width pot, it
snapped off.  I replaced it, and now when I adjust it still has no
effect on the X width.  It's still just 2 inches wide.

   Has anyone else had this problem?

Thank you,

Bryan Kruzynski

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From owner-vectorlist   Tue May  8 05:18:24 2001
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Message-ID: <3AF7B71A.595D87BC@dingoblue.net.au>
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 19:06:45 +1000
From: Paul Sommers <rgvac_aust@dingoblue.net.au>
Organization: Magic Lantern Company
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Gang,

I have a Space Wars and Armor Attack PCB's that need fixing. I don't
understand how this bit slice stuff works - I have enough trouble with the
raster stuff.

If you would like to take on the job, let me know how much you charge.

I also have two dead Space Wars CPU's (only 1 sound board condition unknown)
and a StarHawk CPU displaying the ships but no planet or score, that I could
swap towards repair price.

I am also looking for a HV unit from a Space Wars monitor - mine is working
but the smell of ozone is VERY strong - I have a feeling it's going to go as
soon as I finally put a working board in... they do that you know... they gang
up on you to drive you crazy... really!!!

Cheers
Paul

PS: I should clarify - I will pay cash, but the dead boards are there if you
want them as full/part payment.
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From owner-vectorlist   Tue May  8 15:07:49 2001
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From: "Clay Cowgill" <vector_clay >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids hack
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 11:55:17 -0700
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> >   1) More common.  Go with the bigger target market...
> >   2) Already has all the analog sound hardware for Asteroids.
>
>Except there'll be many missing Deluxe sounds, and the Asteroids sounds
>can be approxmiated with the pokey that's on the Deluxe.

Nah... POKEY added to the daughtercard and muxed into the Asteroids audio 
output summing circuit.  (Much easier to add a POKEY than the analog sound 
hardware.  Well, for me at least!)

Still though, a combination technique would probably work for all 
platforms-- some software patches to the DLX and LL code runs quite 
comfortably on Asteroids hardware, and adding the POKEY gets you the DLX 
sounds.  For LL, the Pokey could recreate the varying thrust volumes...

> > I didn't want to try to recreate the analog sounds in hardware, and I 
>didn't
> > want to hack the Asteroids Deluxe sound routines into LL or AST, so I 
>liked
> > the Asteroids board.  (I figure that the Asteroids thrust sound will be 
>OK
> > in LL)
>
>Avoiding making software changes and doing it in hardware, eh? ;-)

Not as much as I've always really liked the smoothness of the Asteroids 
"thrust" sound and I've never known a POKEY to get that same quality.  Maybe 
the POKEY output could be run through an external switchable filter or 
something, but again, with fewer DLX boards out there Asteroids seemed like 
a better hardware target to me.

[overclocking]
>Apparently the 65C02 has higher clock rate versions, too. I'm just looking
>for a source for them.

I don't think you'll find much anymore, but a few things to try:

1) WDC (but I don't think they sell chips anymore though)
2) Winbond (they have/had some 6502 compatible micro's for VCR's)
3) Mitsubishi (they had a 6502 varient microcontroller)
4) Conexant (the Rockwell modem chips like the C3900, L3900, L2900, etc were 
just souped-up 6502's.  We ran our high-end modems like the SupraSonic out 
of an SRAM shadow memory [12ns] for full 40MHz 6502 compatible operation.  
There were some changes to the instruction set, but if you're software 
hacking anyway...)

> > [Overclocking] - If my memory serves, Asteroids runs essentially async 
>from
> > the VSM.
>
>Completely async. It runs at exactly 45 redraws per second, which is
>around 22.2ms. It's actually computed in foreground code and the
>foreground code spins on a semaphore that's clocked off the NMI.
>
> > from the IRQ for the CPU?)-- if the game code has lots more cycles to do
> > stuff because of a faster CPU, all the better.
>
>Bingo. Sometimes the 1Mhz Asteroids would start flickering if there was
>lots of activity. As it's coded now, if the foreground code can't do it
>fast enough, it'll effectively "skip" drawing a frame.

Yeah, that seems to be a popular Atari technique.  When I was doing my SNES 
Asteroids clone I was in a weird "no frame skip" mood so if I ever didn't 
make it out of the main loop before a redraw was due I did a BRK to just 
kill things (thus making it obvious I missed a frame).  I was OK up to 64 
rocks and 15 bullets... That 16th bullet and I'd run out of MIPs...

Actually, someone might have suggested it already, but just buying up old 
SNES consoles and sucking the CPU's out of those would be a good source of 
65816 compatibles.  They were speed-switchable (3.579MHz top end), but the 
16 bit operations really helped out on the useful work that could be done.

-Clay
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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From owner-vectorlist   Tue May  8 15:22:45 2001
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Message-ID: <3AF8446C.E52AA928@ni.net>
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 12:09:33 -0700
From: Matt Rossiter <rossiter@ni.net>
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For those in Southern California, I would still like to have a get-together
someday and have a discussion on fixing Cinematronics CPU boards.  I have the Kurz
Kasch test fixture and an HP signature analyzer, o-scope, plus plenty -o- parts.

Plus, I just bought a new house and I want to show off my ISF Calibrated Pioneer
Elite Pro-610 with my Paradigm reference speakers.  - and, of course, my garage
loaded with games.  :)  If anybody might be interested in doing something like
that early or mid June let me know.  Not that I drink beer, but I'd  provide the
Pizza and Beer.

Matt

Paul Sommers wrote:

> Gang,
>
> I have a Space Wars and Armor Attack PCB's that need fixing. I don't
> understand how this bit slice stuff works - I have enough trouble with the
> raster stuff.
>
> If you would like to take on the job, let me know how much you charge.
>
> I also have two dead Space Wars CPU's (only 1 sound board condition unknown)
> and a StarHawk CPU displaying the ships but no planet or score, that I could
> swap towards repair price.
>
> I am also looking for a HV unit from a Space Wars monitor - mine is working
> but the smell of ozone is VERY strong - I have a feeling it's going to go as
> soon as I finally put a working board in... they do that you know... they gang
> up on you to drive you crazy... really!!!
>
> Cheers
> Paul
>
> PS: I should clarify - I will pay cash, but the dead boards are there if you
> want them as full/part payment.
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From owner-vectorlist   Tue May  8 17:46:37 2001
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From: Paul Kahler <phkahler@Oakland.edu>
Message-Id: <200105082136.RAA28608@saturn4.acs.oakland.edu>
Subject: VECTOR: Fixing Cinematronics
To: vectorlist 
Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 17:36:51 -0400 (EDT)
In-Reply-To: <3AF8446C.E52AA928@ni.net> from "Matt Rossiter" at May 08, 2001 12:09:33 PM
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Hi all,

  There was a time when I was considering makeing a diagnostic
ROM for Cinematronics games. Being the guy most (I think)
familiar with the inner workings of the CPU, I feel uniquely
qualified to undertake that. As I recall though, it requires
nearly 60 or 70% of the CPU to function to run anything, but
at that point the software would be very helpful to diagnose
the other 30-40%

Lemme know if this sounds like a good idea.
-- 
<pre>
 ___   __   _   _  _
|   \ /  \ | | | || |       phkahler@oakland.edu     Engineer/Programmer
|  _/| || || |_| || |__     " What makes someone care so much?
|_|  |_||_| \___/ |____)      for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H.
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From owner-vectorlist   Tue May  8 19:04:59 2001
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From: "Alex Yeckley" <ayeckley >
To: <vectorlist >
References: <200105082136.RAA28608@saturn4.acs.oakland.edu>
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Fixing Cinematronics
Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 18:55:27 -0400
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This thread seems like a reasonable time and place to
announce this:

I have a limited number of reproduction Cinematronics
Exorcisors available if anyone is interested.  If anyone
wants to discuss it, please contact me directly rather than
thru the vectorlist.  Thanks...

Alex
http://www.elektronforge.com
ayeckley 

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Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 17:02:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Neil Bradley <neil >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids hack
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> >Except there'll be many missing Deluxe sounds, and the Asteroids sounds
> >can be approxmiated with the pokey that's on the Deluxe.
> Nah... POKEY added to the daughtercard and muxed into the Asteroids audio 
> output summing circuit.  (Much easier to add a POKEY than the analog sound 
> hardware.  Well, for me at least!)

The only difference is the "bump" and shot sound. They can both be
duplicated with the Pokey. I'm just worried about the availability of the
Pokeys. Besides, now that you have the source to all three games, you have
no excuse. ;-)

> Still though, a combination technique would probably work for all 
> platforms-- some software patches to the DLX and LL code runs quite 
> comfortably on Asteroids hardware, and adding the POKEY gets you the DLX 
> sounds.  For LL, the Pokey could recreate the varying thrust volumes...

The Pokey has an onboard filter that could be used in this fashion.

> > > I didn't want to try to recreate the analog sounds in hardware, and I 
> > > want to hack the Asteroids Deluxe sound routines into LL or AST, so I 
> > > the Asteroids board.  (I figure that the Asteroids thrust sound will be 
> > > in LL)
> >Avoiding making software changes and doing it in hardware, eh? ;-)
> Not as much as I've always really liked the smoothness of the Asteroids 
> "thrust" sound and I've never known a POKEY to get that same quality.

The Deluxe thrust sound is in hardware and is the same circuit as
Asteroids - it's not generated by the Pokey.

> >Apparently the 65C02 has higher clock rate versions, too. I'm just looking
> >for a source for them.
> I don't think you'll find much anymore, but a few things to try:
> 1) WDC (but I don't think they sell chips anymore though)

They do, actually. I've just been informed that they have 14Mhz DIP 40
parts, but they require a minimum order of $100. The chips are $3.25 each.

-->Neil

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Synthcom Systems, Inc.        privates public
ICQ #29402898	       


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From owner-vectorlist   Tue May  8 23:34:36 2001
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Pokeys shall be available as long as the BallBusters (?) cartridge holds 
out. I understand there are about 40,000 of them left @ $1-$2US here and 
there...

John :-#)#

At 05:02 PM 5/8/2001 -0700, you wrote:
> > >Except there'll be many missing Deluxe sounds, and the Asteroids sounds
> > >can be approxmiated with the pokey that's on the Deluxe.
> > Nah... POKEY added to the daughtercard and muxed into the Asteroids audio
> > output summing circuit.  (Much easier to add a POKEY than the analog sound
> > hardware.  Well, for me at least!)
>
>The only difference is the "bump" and shot sound. They can both be
>duplicated with the Pokey. I'm just worried about the availability of the
>Pokeys. Besides, now that you have the source to all three games, you have
>no excuse. ;-)
>
> > Still though, a combination technique would probably work for all
> > platforms-- some software patches to the DLX and LL code runs quite
> > comfortably on Asteroids hardware, and adding the POKEY gets you the DLX
> > sounds.  For LL, the Pokey could recreate the varying thrust volumes...
>
>The Pokey has an onboard filter that could be used in this fashion.
>
> > > > I didn't want to try to recreate the analog sounds in hardware, and I
> > > > want to hack the Asteroids Deluxe sound routines into LL or AST, so I
> > > > the Asteroids board.  (I figure that the Asteroids thrust sound 
> will be
> > > > in LL)
> > >Avoiding making software changes and doing it in hardware, eh? ;-)
> > Not as much as I've always really liked the smoothness of the Asteroids
> > "thrust" sound and I've never known a POKEY to get that same quality.
>
>The Deluxe thrust sound is in hardware and is the same circuit as
>Asteroids - it's not generated by the Pokey.
>
> > >Apparently the 65C02 has higher clock rate versions, too. I'm just looking
> > >for a source for them.
> > I don't think you'll find much anymore, but a few things to try:
> > 1) WDC (but I don't think they sell chips anymore though)
>
>They do, actually. I've just been informed that they have 14Mhz DIP 40
>parts, but they require a minimum order of $100. The chips are $3.25 each.
>
>-->Neil
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Neil Bradley            C++ - A language where you can make your
>Synthcom Systems, Inc.        privates public
>ICQ #29402898
>
>
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Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 22:22:46 -0700
From: Patrick Lawrence <pjl >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids hack
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> Pokeys shall be available as long as the BallBusters (?) cartridge holds=
=20
> out.

Atari 7800 Ballblazer...

> I understand there are about 40,000 of them left @ $1-$2US here and
> there...

http://www.oshealtd.com/

Pat
--=20
       "You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake!" - Tyler Durden

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From: "Clay Cowgill" <vector_clay >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids hack
Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 00:00:41 -0700
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> > I understand there are about 40,000 of them left @ $1-$2US here and
> > there...
>
>http://www.oshealtd.com/

I think that number seems to fluctuate...

I bought 3 cases a few months ago and talked to Bill to haggle on the price.

The first time I talked to them (several years ago) they had 30K.  The 
second time I called maybe 18 months ago I bought a few hundred pcs and they 
were down to "20K and someone is buying 15K of those".  The third time I 
called (3 mos. back?) and bought a few hundred it was back up to 30K on 
hand.  Maybe they're digging up more in the warehouse.  (Or they don't 
really know. ;-)

At any rate, there doesn't seem to be a shortage yet!

-Clay
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From: "Clay Cowgill" <vector_clay >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids hack
Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 00:12:11 -0700
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[ast. vs. dlx]
>The only difference is the "bump" and shot sound. They can both be
>duplicated with the Pokey. I'm just worried about the availability of the
>Pokeys. Besides, now that you have the source to all three games, you have
>no excuse. ;-)

Heh-heh... Yeah, I should just do it.  I actually need a 6502 
daughtercard+POKEY for something else anyway.  The only reason I quit before 
was that I didn't want to hunt down the beam positioning in LL that made 
everything draw too low on the monitor, but I seem to recall you telling me 
where that was. ;-)

[fat analog white-noise sound]
>The Pokey has an onboard filter that could be used in this fashion.

It could just be that most of my POKEY sound memories with Asteroids were on 
an Atari 800 through a monitor speaker and it probably never did the engine 
sound justice like the big speaker (and resonance) in the arcade cabinet 
could.  (Actually Neil, if I recall correctly, a number of years ago you 
were playing Space Duel at Travis Hagen's place and remarking how much 
better it sounded than the emulation at the time. ;-)

>The Deluxe thrust sound is in hardware and is the same circuit as
>Asteroids - it's not generated by the Pokey.

Ah, cool.  I didn't notice that.  That only leaves LL as a problem-child for 
thrust sound... (variable something or other... I don't recall if it's 
volume or frequency or both-- though it had different volume settings.)

I suppose I should dust off my patches for DLX and LL on Asteroids hardware 
and see what I had left to do.

> > >Apparently the 65C02 has higher clock rate versions, too. I'm just 
>looking
> > >for a source for them.
> > I don't think you'll find much anymore, but a few things to try:
> > 1) WDC (but I don't think they sell chips anymore though)
>
>They do, actually. I've just been informed that they have 14Mhz DIP 40
>parts, but they require a minimum order of $100. The chips are $3.25 each.

Score!  That's the way to go then.  Easy package, good price!

-Clay
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From owner-vectorlist   Wed May  9 04:21:52 2001
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Message-ID: <3AF8FBD9.51E9B7BE@cedar-rapids.net>
Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 03:12:09 -0500
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Clay Cowgill wrote:

>  > >Apparently the 65C02 has higher clock rate versions, too. I'm just
> >looking
> > > >for a source for them.
> > > I don't think you'll find much anymore, but a few things to try:
> > > 1) WDC (but I don't think they sell chips anymore though)
> >
> >They do, actually. I've just been informed that they have 14Mhz DIP 40
> >parts, but they require a minimum order of $100. The chips are $3.25 each.
>
> Score!  That's the way to go then.  Easy package, good price!

Oh, Clay!  Just for you, WDC also has them in surface mount.

First the good news, you can run them up to 14 MHz.

Now the bad news, you need some DAMN fast memory to keep up.

(Or you can clock it at 14 Hz and use relays for memory!!)

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From owner-vectorlist   Wed May  9 10:54:18 2001
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Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 23:09:07 +0100
To: vectorlist 
From: James G Watt <kinetic-arts >
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Vector development platform (Re: HOAX Star Castle on Aste roids)
References: <A5B4C9A2AD89D411AB3E009027B0DA1E20F23E >
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s p a c e  w a r s
on asteroids hardware. That'd be very cool. well worth making a new
control panel for.
---
James G Watt
http://www.kinetic-arts.co.uk
Part of the Video Arcade Game Collectors WebRing.

You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
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From owner-vectorlist   Wed May  9 11:41:13 2001
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>Oh, Clay!  Just for you, WDC also has them in surface mount.

(I kinda like DIP when there's already a DIP socket on the board. ;-)

>First the good news, you can run them up to 14 MHz.
>
>Now the bad news, you need some DAMN fast memory to keep up.

Yeah, we ran with 45ns Flash on our Rockwell modems.  Spendy though, and 
that wasn't even full speed!  You could use something like the Simtek nvSRAM 
and just use that for program storage. (20ns)

The Rockwell stuff would wake up in "normal" mode so you could boot from 
120ns memory, then you could flip some bits to "fast" mode.  (Usually after 
mirroring the Flash out to 12ns SRAM.)

Since the new WDC parts only take one clock phase and are fully static, you 
could probably just feed your clock into a counter and a mux-- come up slow, 
then flip a bit on an external latch to switch the clock source to the 
faster rate.  Boot at 2 or 4MHz, then kick it to 8MHz or something.  Still 
boatloads faster than the old 6502.  Maybe just have a single /2 flipflop 
that you can disable; boot at 4MHz and switch to 8MHz once the code is in 
SRAM...

-Clay

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From owner-vectorlist   Wed May  9 17:58:53 2001
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From: Zonn <zonn >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids hack
Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 14:54:18 -0700
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On Sat, 4 Apr 1959 09:23:52 -0600 (CST), Graham Toal <gtoal > wrote:

>Apologies if this is a duplicate post, but I think I've been posting to
>this list from the wrong acct and my postings have been silently dropped
>on the floor.

More like, sucked into some kind of time warp...

And to think, I was only 11 months old when this message was sent.

Man, the internet IS slowing down!!  ;^)

-Zonn
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Message-ID: <001001c0d921$de9f3da0$399827d8@obie>
From: "David Shoemaker" <davids@oz.net>
To: <vectorlist >
Subject: VECTOR: BZ + Fluke 9010A + 6502 pod = headache
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 00:21:45 -0700
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0D8E7.3215AC20
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Trying to work on a BZ board with my fluke and the pod has died on me, =
did this to me last time I was working on these. =20

So the question is anyone have a spare 6502 pod that works they are =
willing to sell for a reasonable price or trade me for a z80 pod?

Anyone have a good way of testing / repairing these blasted things?


Not my day.

Thanks,
David

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Trying to work on a BZ board with my =
fluke and the=20
pod has died on me, did this to me last time I was working on =
these.&nbsp;=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So the question is anyone have a spare =
6502 pod=20
that works they are willing to sell for a reasonable price or trade me =
for a z80=20
pod?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Anyone have a good way of testing / =
repairing these=20
blasted things?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not my day.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>David</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-vectorlist   Thu May 10 05:47:38 2001
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Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 02:25:19 -0700
From: Matt Rossiter <rossiter@ni.net>
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I've been working on getting an Eliminator restored and almost have the
monitor working but I'm running into a problem.  When I plug the monitor
into a game that I know is working it will sit there and do nothing for
a while.  Even the power transistors are cold, but then every once in a
while the high voltage will kick in and display a couple of dots in the
center of the screen and then the high voltage will shutoff and the
monitor will be quiet again.

I've checked all the solder joints and they look good and none of the
fuses are blowing.  Just wondering if anyone has any ideas before I pull
out the oscilloscope.
Matt

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From owner-vectorlist   Thu May 10 08:29:34 2001
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Message-ID: <0D94957BC0E5D411A95B00D0B7B9F2276A93EF >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: RE: VECTOR: Need some help with an Electrohome G08
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 07:56:44 -0400
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> 
> I've checked all the solder joints and they look good and none of the
> fuses are blowing.  Just wondering if anyone has any ideas 
> before I pull
> out the oscilloscope.

   Pull out your meter first and check the monitor's DC voltages.
They're the first things I check. Get a copy of the schematic,
locate and measure the +9.1V (regulated), -9.1V (reg), +55V (reg),
+63V (unregulated), -63V (unreg) and the +126V from the voltage
doubler. If these are OK then check the 100V on the Hi-Voltage
regulator board.  From there, check the 22.5kV when it's working.
The Zektor manual on-line has more voltage test point values on pages
36 and 37.

David Fish                        "We want...Information. INFORMATION
Melrose, MA  USA                         You won't get it!
   dfish1.at.mediaone.net          By hook or by crook we will"
   David.Fish.at.axcelis.com                           _The Prisoner_
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From owner-vectorlist   Thu May 10 10:15:32 2001
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From: Jenison Mark-QA3578 <Mark.Jenison >
To: "'vectorlist >
Subject: RE: VECTOR: Need some help with an Electrohome G08
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 08:56:39 -0500
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Check the 10-pin connector at the HV unit.  I've seen more than once that
flexing the HV PCB by pressing on the 10-pin connector will cause the HV to
work.

When the monitor is powered up, do you hear deflection chatter?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Rossiter [mailto:rossiter@ni.net]
> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 4:25 AM
> To: vectorlist 
> Subject: VECTOR: Need some help with an Electrohome G08
> 
> 
> I've been working on getting an Eliminator restored and 
> almost have the
> monitor working but I'm running into a problem.  When I plug 
> the monitor
> into a game that I know is working it will sit there and do 
> nothing for
> a while.  Even the power transistors are cold, but then every 
> once in a
> while the high voltage will kick in and display a couple of 
> dots in the
> center of the screen and then the high voltage will shutoff and the
> monitor will be quiet again.
> 
> I've checked all the solder joints and they look good and none of the
> fuses are blowing.  Just wondering if anyone has any ideas 
> before I pull
> out the oscilloscope.
> Matt
> 
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From owner-vectorlist   Thu May 10 10:16:22 2001
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Message-ID: <20010510134219.65200.qmail >
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 06:42:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Loggans <cloggans >
Subject: Re: VECTOR: BZ + Fluke 9010A + 6502 pod = headache
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David,

I had this happen to me using a Z80 POD once.  I was
able to fix it by replacing all of the IC's within the
POD that buffer the data and address lines to the UUT.
 They are all socketed, so it's really easy to do.  I
would try to start there to get your POD working
again.

As for the BZ board...I find that the Fluke is your
best bet for fixing main boards.  There's nothing
better for identifying bad RAM, ROM or stuck data
lines.  The signature analysis for the aux boards is
helpful too.  Just follow the instructions on the
first sheet of schematics.  Do you have any idea what
caused the Fluke to die?  Is there a voltage problem
on the board?  Was the board turned on with the Fluke
off?

-Chris



--- David Shoemaker <davids@oz.net> wrote:
> Trying to work on a BZ board with my fluke and the
> pod has died on me, did this to me last time I was
> working on these.  
> 
> So the question is anyone have a spare 6502 pod that
> works they are willing to sell for a reasonable
> price or trade me for a z80 pod?
> 
> Anyone have a good way of testing / repairing these
> blasted things?
> 
> 
> Not my day.
> 
> Thanks,
> David
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
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From owner-vectorlist   Thu May 10 11:39:31 2001
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Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 08:30:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Neil Bradley <neil >
To: vectorlist 
Subject: VECTOR: Fluke 9010a
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I have an opportunity to get a Fluke 9010a for fairly cheap. Will this
help me in troubleshooting my Asteroids Deluxe board that I've screwed
up? Obviously I'll need a 6502 pod... how hard is that to get ahold of?

-->Neil

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Neil Bradley            C++ - A language where you can make your
Synthcom Systems, Inc.        privates public
ICQ #29402898	       

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From: "David Shoemaker" <davids@oz.net>
To: <vectorlist >
References: <20010510134219.65200.qmail >
Subject: Re: VECTOR: BZ + Fluke 9010A + 6502 pod = headache
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 08:54:17 -0700
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Where did you get the 74sc374's that buffer the data.  I have been looking
for them for quite a while and have had no luck finding them.  Or did you
use another type of chip?

David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Loggans" <cloggans >
To: <vectorlist >
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: VECTOR: BZ + Fluke 9010A + 6502 pod = headache


> David,
>
> I had this happen to me using a Z80 POD once.  I was
> able to fix it by replacing all of the IC's within the
> POD that buffer the data and address lines to the UUT.
>  They are all socketed, so it's really easy to do.  I
> would try to start there to get your POD working
> again.
>
> As for the BZ board...I find that the Fluke is your
> best bet for fixing main boards.  There's nothing
> better for identifying bad RAM, ROM or stuck data
> lines.  The signature analysis for the aux boards is
> helpful too.  Just follow the instructions on the
> first sheet of schematics.  Do you have any idea what
> caused the Fluke to die?  Is there a voltage problem
> on the board?  Was the board turned on with the Fluke
> off?
>
> -Chris
>
>
>
> --- David Shoemaker <davids@oz.net> wrote:
> > Trying to work on a BZ board with my fluke and the
> > pod has died on me, did this to me last time I was
> > working on these.
> >
> > So the question is anyone have a spare 6502 pod that
> > works they are willing to sell for a reasonable
> > price or trade me for a z80 pod?
> >
> > Anyone have a good way of testing / repairing these
> > blasted things?
> >
> >
> > Not my day.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > David
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
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> ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in
the
> ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other
> ** questions, comments, or problems to neil .
>

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From owner-vectorlist   Thu May 10 12:10:21 2001
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Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 08:51:29 -0700
To: vectorlist 
From: John Robertson <jrr >
Subject: Re: VECTOR: BZ + Fluke 9010A + 6502 pod = headache
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Common problem that I have found with intermittent pods is the interconnect 
plug/socket inside the unit. Open the shell, and separate the two circuit 
boards, then spray the contacts with a good contact cleaner - MG Products 
or similar (NOT WD-40!!!). Seat and re-seat the connection a couple of 
times and try the self test again.

I have a bunch of 9000 pods that are suitable for parts $25US each... They 
work, but who needs 'em as that processor is pretty useless as far as I 
know. Lots of the buffer ICs though...

John :-#)#

At 12:21 AM 5/10/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>Trying to work on a BZ board with my fluke and the pod has died on me, did 
>this to me last time I was working on these.
>
>So the question is anyone have a spare 6502 pod that works they are 
>willing to sell for a reasonable price or trade me for a z80 pod?
>
>Anyone have a good way of testing / repairing these blasted things?
>
>
>Not my day.
>
>Thanks,
>David

  John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
  Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
  http://www.flippers.com
         "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

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<html>
Common problem that I have found with intermittent pods is the
interconnect plug/socket inside the unit. Open the shell, and separate
the two circuit boards, then spray the contacts with a good contact
cleaner - MG Products or similar (NOT WD-40!!!). Seat and re-seat the
connection a couple of times and try the self test again.<br>
<br>
I have a bunch of 9000 pods that are suitable for parts $25US each...
They work, but who needs 'em as that processor is pretty useless as far
as I know. Lots of the buffer ICs though...<br>
<br>
John :-#)#<br>
<br>
At 12:21 AM 5/10/2001 -0700, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>Tryi=
ng to
work on a BZ board with my fluke and the pod has died on me, did this to
me last time I was working on these.&nbsp; </font><br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>So the question is anyone have a spare 6502 po=
d
that works they are willing to sell for a reasonable price or trade me
for a z80 pod?</font><br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>Anyone have a good way of testing / r