From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Nov 2 00:21:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 00:21:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <345C4759.443BF77B@istar.ca> Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 01:26:51 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: WG 19V2000 BW Vector monitor manual needed References: <342857ca0.5163 > <199709232335.TAA12575 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Corey Stup wrote: > This is from a Asteroids Dlx upright - need copies or an original. > Email if you have one available. > > Thanks! We have photocopies of just about all the XY monitors (and most other raster ones) available...Asking $23US includes postage to USA, and often some scribbled tech notes on the margins of the pages.... John :-#)# (sorry about the add, but I thought some would be interested...) -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Nov 2 00:24:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 00:24:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <345C4838.8FB67C96@istar.ca> Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 01:30:34 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Question for mailing list group References: <342857ca0.5163 > <199709232335.TAA12575 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Hi, all! What is the consensus here regarding advertisements of a vector nature? I have a few games that I would like to sell (Star Trek, Star Wars, etc...) and I don't get rgvam on my server (why I don't know). Would an auction run in this area be unseemly? Or prices posted? Or what? Thanks! John :-#?# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Nov 2 16:47:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 16:46:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Question for mailing list group Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 00:47:05 GMT Message-ID: <345d15bb.448300@smtp.concentric.net> References: <342857ca0.5163 > <345C4838.8FB67C96@istar.ca> In-Reply-To: <345C4838.8FB67C96@istar.ca> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Sun, 02 Nov 1997 01:30:34 -0800, John Robertson wrote: >Hi, all! >What is the consensus here regarding advertisements of a vector nature? >I have a few games that I would like to sell (Star Trek, Star Wars, >etc...) and I don't get rgvam on my server (why I don't know). Would an >auction run in this area be unseemly? Or prices posted? Or what? >Thanks! >John :-#?# Is this up for voting? I wouldn't mind one post as to condition, price and whereabouts of a game -- assuming there was some special price or condition that would make it applicable to 'vectorlist'. Like: "I have a broken Asteroids here in the SF area, I've tried everything to get it to work and am giving up. So I'm wondering if some hardware guru, here on Vectorlist, will take it off my hands for $100, case looks great... blah blah" or, "I'v designed some boards that allow you to switch between SW and ESB and I'm asking $99 for them, let me know if your interested" -- At Clay's prices, I don't see him retiring, or even paying rent on the profits from those board. And even if he was, this would still be a good place to post because of the uniqueness of the product. If one is not offering any special or unique deals, I don't see why it needs to be posted to 'vectorlist'. Mailing lists are easy to create, if needed it would be easy enough for someone to start a 'vectorlist.marketplace'. So far it's been very nice having a noise free mailing list. It would seem a shame, simply because this list's subscription base has become large enough to support an auction, to start throwing advertisements between the "real posting" -- much like a magazine would. I don't see where an auction would help anyone but the sole individual running the auction, and that could be done in private emails, or on a newsgroup somewhere. IMHO. Of course Al Kossow started and maintains this list, and we are all here as his guests. To quote from the original "Welcome" message: "I've created an automated mailing list for people interested in the technical aspects of vector games called vectorlist ." What he says goes! On the other hand I'm bummed because while I seem to be able to get every 'alt.bad.taste.porn.hate.racist.sexist.binaries' created, I also don't get RGVAM -- which would be a great place to run an auction! There are times when I like ads, and have no problems in participating in auctions! -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Nov 2 20:34:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 20:34:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 21:38:20 -0700 To: vectorlist From: jeffh (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: Question for mailing list group Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist I think it would be OK to make LIMITED posts of prices here. I think they should be limited to vector games and parts and only posted once every couple of weeks or so (not everyday until the game sells). I also think this would NOT be a good place to run an auction, I wouldn't want my mailbox stuffed each day with new bids on a game. I think that stuff should be posted in the news groups. just my $.015 -jeff >Hi, all! >What is the consensus here regarding advertisements of a vector nature? >I have a few games that I would like to sell (Star Trek, Star Wars, >etc...) and I don't get rgvam on my server (why I don't know). Would an >auction run in this area be unseemly? Or prices posted? Or what? >Thanks! >John :-#?# >-- > John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 > Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) > mailto:jrr > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." jeffh Buy/Sell/Trade Classic Video Arcade Games www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Nov 3 07:52:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 07:52:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <345DF4C9.7ED9 > Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 10:59:05 -0500 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Amplifone help needed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Hi all, This past weekend was a dark time for my Amplifones .. I need some serious help. I'll explain the best that I can. Last week, my WinTron unit arrived, so I decided to install it this weekend. Originally, I had one completely working HV board with the red transformer, and I had one non-working HV board. In the non-working board, I replaced the BU406D just for grins, installed a cap kit, and basically tested every component to make sure that it was going to work when I installed a working HV transformer into it. Because I knew that my working board was in good shape, I decided to install the WinTron unit into it. I figured that if I install the WinTron into board #2, and it has a problem, I might break the WinTron. I installed the WinTron into board #1, and the working red HV transformer into board #2. Now here is where the problems began. I hooked #1 up, and the screen was incredibly bright, and all the colors were washed out. Everything was white. The neck of the crt was glowing much brighter than it ever had normally, and then the monitor display changed and only displayed RED. I assumed that the brightness was just turned up too high, so I turned it down. The brightness did decrease ever so slightly, but not enough. Even in the lowest position, the screen was still blazing away like you wouldn't believe. I checked my HV, and it was at the appropriate 19.5KV. I figured that perhaps my drive and bias pots needed serious adjustment with this new transformer, so I exercised those pots and saw only miniscule effects on screen. Basically, what I can tell is that the heater is glowing entirely too brightly, and I can't turn the brightness down enough. I verified that all wires going to the focus block are good. I even measured the block with my ohm-meter to make sure that none of the resistors opened up. They all checked out good. I triple checked all my wiring of the HV transformer before powering up. I can't figure out what possibly is the problem. The only guess I have is that the WinTron unit is defective and its outputting at least the wrong heater voltage ... What I don't know is whether or not a brightly glowing heater would cause this symptom or not. I even tried lowering the HV, and this had no effect on the screen brightness. All it did was shrink the size of the screen. ------- Ok, so I had some bad luck with #1. I figured that I'd at least get #2 working. I hooked it up, and I got HV, (I could hear it!) but the heater didn't even glow! ARGH! No picture, needless to say. ------- Now that I had sucessfully destroyed two HV boards, I figured I'd continue. I decided to try to get back to a working state. I removed the WinTron, and put the original HV transformer back into board #1. I even swapped a different tube into the mix (known working) and another deflection board with properly adjust gain and bias pots. When I turned this on, I had an over bright screen, washed out colors, but a normal heater glow. Fiddling with the screen brightness still was not enough to make the screen dim enough. The HV checked out at 19.5KV. I can't figure out anything else on the monitor that I can possibly adjust to make it look correct. This is driving me mad! I noticed one really weird thing though. I noticed that if I raised then lowered the screen brightness rapidly, that the display would look absolutely NORMAL and perfect for about 1 second, then it would quickly become too bright. I turned it all off and let it stew. I'm really out of ideas for the moment. I can't figure out why it is that any of these problems happened as they did. ------- Basically: 1)Why was the heater voltage too high with the Wintron? Can it be adjusted? 2)If I could lower the heater voltage, would that make the screen less bright? 3)If yes to #2, why was the screen too bright in my 3rd experiment even though the heater glowed normally? 4)Since the HV was measured at the normal 19.5KV, what else can I adjust on the HV board to make the (apparently) out of whack voltages, correct? 5)What do you suppose happened to my red HV unit when I put it into an apparently defective HV board, and then transplanted it back? It still generates HV, heater, etc, and I get a picture (my 3rd experiment). 6)Is it possible that the WinTron unit is defective, and that now I also have a bad red HV unit to boot? At least I am learning. :-) At least, that's what my wife tries to remind me of. That's what I tell her when I have all these failed experiments. :-) But this time, it's getting harder to remember that. If you have some time, and some clues, I'd really enjoy hearing from you. I'll provide more details if you have more questions. Thanks! Joel- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Nov 3 08:18:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 08:18:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 10:17:54 -0600 (CST) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Amplifone help needed In-Reply-To: <345DF4C9.7ED9 > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Hey Joel, Check your Video B+. It's supposed to be 180V. The installation instructions (the original Atari ones, at least) say that after installing the new HV transformer you should "Adjust the frequency of primary switching to get a video B+ of 180V" You use R7 (I think that's it -- it's the pot near the 555 timer) to do this. I'm thinking that your colors might be overdriving because the Video B+ may be too high. I have a similar problem (Deflection seems good, but I only get bright, white vectors) that I've shelved for the time being, and it is definitely a deflection board problem (My heater doesn't glow any different from normal, though...) It's wierd that you're getting proper HV and bad heater voltages, since they both come off of the HV transformer. Since you didn't mention messing with R7 you might try it and see. Did you measure the heater voltage, just for kicks? Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Nov 3 08:42:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 08:42:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <345E008C.7766 > Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 11:49:16 -0500 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Amplifone help needed References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist jwelser wrote: > > Check your Video B+. It's supposed to be 180V. The installation > instructions (the original Atari ones, at least) say that after installing > the new HV transformer you should "Adjust the frequency of primary > switching to get a video B+ of 180V" You use R7 (I think that's it > -- it's the pot near the 555 timer) to do this. I'm thinking that your > colors might be overdriving because the Video B+ may be too high. I have > a similar problem (Deflection seems good, but I only get bright, white > vectors) that I've shelved for the time being, and it is definitely a > deflection board problem (My heater doesn't glow any different from > normal, though...) I didn't check the B+. Though, since the B+ is also controlled in the same manner as the HV, and the HV is correct, how can I change the B+ (If it is too high) without affecting the HV? That is, is it more important to have the B+ at 180V, or the HV at 19.5K? (I did exercise R7 and lowered it all the way but the problem did not get any better). The problem that you describe with your hardware sounds exactly like what's going on here. I know that the deflection boards are good. They worked perfectly before I had this brilliant idea .. :-( It seems that the HV/B+ is the only adjustable voltage. What's left to do? > > It's wierd that you're getting proper HV and bad heater voltages, > since they both come off of the HV transformer. Since you didn't mention > messing with R7 you might try it and see. Did you measure the heater > voltage, just for kicks? I didn't measure the heater voltage. Any idea what it should be? I'm assuming something around (6.3 to 7VAC), since it needs to be compatible with the WG tubes ... and that's about what they use. Thanks for the reply. Joel- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Nov 3 13:38:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:37:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 16:37:18 -0500 (EST) From: Dangerwil Message-ID: <971103151229_1035243587 > To: vectorlist Subject: Found some diodes Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist All, Whilst digging in the parts room I discovered a box with some flyback diodes in it. The invoice was dated 12-2-82! 3) Varo H386C-12 48S137114 (Diode symbol) 7925 3 silicone insulators 1) Varo H 386CI D2Y Any ideas? Are these the Asteroids diode? Or are they for the motorola Space Invaders monitor. If anybody wants 'em they should be cheap. Bill From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Nov 3 15:29:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:29:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist Subject: HP 5004A Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 23:31:42 GMT Message-ID: <34615b54.248084756 > References: <971103151229_1035243587 > In-Reply-To: <971103151229_1035243587 > X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist HP 5004A -- I just found one of these at a local surplus store that looks nearly brand new for $85. So I bought it. (For those who don't recognize the number, this is a Signature Analyser that can be used in conjunction with the Cinematronics exercisor.) They had another one also in nice condition for $47.50, it might have been missing some of the small leads that connect to the start/stop/clock module -- they look easily replaceable. And if it matters, the little piece of cellophane that covers the display when it's new, was still attached. But it didn't have the accessory pouch, and the tip of the probe had been filed down once, so I bough the other one. But if anyone else is interested, and is willing to drive to the San Diego North County Area (CA of course), then E-mail me and I'll tell you how to get there. But back to my selfish reason for posting: Does anyone have an operators/service manual I could get a copy of? I've already called HP and they no longer carry the manual, though you *might* be able to get a microfiche of the thing, I didn't try. (If anyone else is interested, the HP ordering number is: 1-800-227-8164 and the part number for the microfiche is: 05004-90002) Thanks! -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ concentric . net -------| // \\/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Nov 3 15:32:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:32:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:32:41 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: HP 5004A Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist "But back to my selfish reason for posting: Does anyone have an operators/service manual I could get a copy of?" I'd be interested in a copy to, or if someone would scan it in, I can put it up on spies. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Nov 3 19:50:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:50:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: "Rhea, Cristopher J." (Cris Rhea) Message-Id: <199711040348.VAA24209@sijer.Mayo.EDU> Subject: Re: HP 5004A To: vectorlist Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 21:48:31 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <34615b54.248084756 > from "Zonn" at Nov 3, 97 11:31:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Send a note to linda_p pany called Manual Merchant.... Has or can find manuals for almost any test instrument.... --- Cris ----------------------------------------------------------- Cristopher J. Rhea Mayo Foundation Research Computing Facility Guggenheim 1001B crhea@Mayo.EDU Rochester, MN 55905 Fax: (507) 266-4486 (507) 284-0587 ----------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 4 08:57:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:57:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: Audio Reg on Tempest or Gravitar Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:57:12 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist G'day folks, This is a simple (and perhaps stupid) question. I found two spare audio regulator boards from a Tempest and Gravitar while I was digging around in my storage unit this morning. I was considering doing that conversion that Ray documented a while back where I modify my Asteroids to play Asteroids Deluxe also. As I remember, the only major modification was swapping out the Asteroids audio regulator board for a more advanced version (Audio Reg II?). Is either the Tempest or Gravitar audio regulator board advanced enough? (The Gravitar audio regulator board didn't look "populated enough" to be an Audio Reg II.) Thanks in advance for any help! Steven S Ozdemir sso ps - I'm putting together my Tempest cocktail for sale for anyone who might be interested in California. Because I've run out of money for storage, I'll have to be parting with this nice piece (and as you can imagine I'll be looking for as much as I can get for it since I'd like to avoid selling off any more of my collection for storage costs). From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 4 09:40:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:40:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:41:38 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Sega multigame- Works! Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist A bit of progress to report. The Multigame hardware came up last night fully functional with the menu system. :-) ***********Techy part:************ It was a bit more complicated than I thought. :-/ The main problem was that it turned out I couldn't use 0xf000-0xffff in ROM without hardware modification. (0xd000-0xdfff, 0xe000-0xefff, and 0xf000-0xffff all decode from the same location in the PROM on the CPU board, so it's tricky to get 0xf000 to map to something *on* the CPU board since the backplane bus transceiver is active.) The menu system now resides at 0xc000-0xc7ff, that's right below RAM, and I can control it without messing with anything else in the PROM. I store the graphics for the menu in the Space Fury bank of memory. When the menu is called it switches to bank 2, reads the graphics into vector RAM, and then jumps to 0xc000 area to run the menu. Works dandy. :-) There's a couple little things left to do-- I've got the current 22V10 based GAL design crunched down to a 16V8, but it needs to be tested. Once that's done I can design the PCB and do a run of boards. *********End Techy Part*********** The upgrade is pretty "clean" right now-- A daughtercard, a little PCB that plugs in where the Security Chip goes, and a replacement PROM. Everything is socketed, no permanent modifications to the CPU board required. The actual hardware should work for raster games too. (Need a different menu/eprom obviously.) With a little luck the whole thing might be available around December? -Clay Actually, if you want to write your own game, you could do it with the Daughtercard and have about 768K of usable bank-switched ROM at your disposal. ;-) Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 4 11:01:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:00:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <345F727F.5EB2 > Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 14:07:43 -0500 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Audio Reg on Tempest or Gravitar References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Ozdemir, Steve wrote: > As I remember, the only major modification was swapping out the > Asteroids audio regulator board for a more advanced version (Audio Reg > II?). Is either the Tempest or Gravitar audio regulator board advanced > enough? (The Gravitar audio regulator board didn't look "populated > enough" to be an Audio Reg II.) Thanks in advance for any help! Tempest uses an Audio Reg II, so if that's what you need, you'll be all set. I'm not familiar with the hack that you're referring to, but Asteroids and Asteroids Deluxe operate off the exact same voltages, so I'm surprised that it says you need the more advanced power supply. What does Ray do with this supply? Joel- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 4 12:18:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 12:18:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 14:17:59 -0600 (CST) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Audio Reg on Tempest or Gravitar In-Reply-To: <345F727F.5EB2 > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Tue, 4 Nov 1997, Joel Rosenzweig wrote: > Tempest uses an Audio Reg II, so if that's what you need, you'll be all > set. I'm not familiar with the hack that you're referring to, but > Asteroids and Asteroids Deluxe operate off the exact same voltages, so > I'm surprised that it says you need the more advanced power supply. > What does Ray do with this supply? > The problem is that Asteroids Uses a Reg/Audio I board, and Asteroids Deluxe uses a Reg/Audio II board. The gains of the audio amplifiers on those boards are different, and it has to be hacked to get them to both operate at the same volume. Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 4 12:46:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 12:45:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199711042044.OAA07066@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Tue, 4 Nov 97 14:42:55 -0600 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Audio Reg on Tempest or Gravitar References: Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist You wrote: > > What does Ray do with this supply? > > > > The problem is that Asteroids Uses a Reg/Audio I board, and > Asteroids Deluxe uses a Reg/Audio II board. The gains of the > audio amplifiers on those boards are different, and it has to be hacked to > get them to both operate at the same volume. Yup, this is what I did, although the details are a little different. Asteroids uses a AR board, and AD uses an AR I board. Here is the write up I did way back when. Alternative was to mod the output stage on the AD PCB. I tend to not make modifications like these to PCBs, since I hate it when others do this stuff (heck of a time tracking things down if you have to fix it). Ray Addendum to Asteroids -> Asteroids Deluxe conversion Ray Ghanbari ray@mayo.edu 4/9/95 NOTE: you are responsible for what you do, not the author or anyone else. Do not attempt the following conversion unless you know what you're doing and are willing to take responsibility for the results. 'Nuff said. Once you rig up your adapter and start playing, you may notice that the sound is heavily distorted. Fret not, this does not mean that the game is melting down! Asteroids (and other Atari vector games) use an auxillarly board to provide regulated power, and to provide amplification for sound. The Audio/Regulator board in Asteroids Deluxe was the Audio/Regulator I board (A/R I), while Asteroids had a plain old Audio/Regulator board (A/R) If you look at the schematics, the only difference seems to be that the A/R board had additional circuitry to support an Audio Disable signal. Since this pin is always grounded in the traditional Asteroids harness, this part of the circuit is never used. I guess the engineers at Atari decided Audio Disable was no longer necessary, so they removed it from the A/R I board, and subsequently, the Audio/Regulator II (A/R II) board that was used in Battlezone and Red Baron (among others) (As an aside, does anybody know if Lunar Lander used the Audio Disable signal?) Unfortunately, when the Audio Disable circuitry was replaced, the resistor network between the two audio inputs and the audio amplifiers changed, changing the signal amplitude seen by the audio amps. As a result, using the A/R board with Asteroids Deluxe results in the amplified signal being clipped, leading to the heavy distortion that you hear. There are two ways to fix the problem. The first (and easiest) is to replace your A/R board with a A/R I board, or preferably, an A/R II board. The reason to opt for the A/R II board is that the A/R II board added support for additional voltage levels, which you will need if you want to play Battlezone and Red Baron in the same cabinet. Apparently, there are different versions of the A/R II board available, which are configured to supply different voltages. Again, if you have a choice, try to find one that provides -5V (7905 voltage regulator), +12V (7812 voltage regulator), and the standard (?) +22V and -22V (unregulated). These are the additional voltages that are needed by Battlezone. These voltages are segregated on a seperate connector on the A/R II board, and hence should not require any changes to you wiring harness (the rest of the board seems to be pin compatible with the A/R board, but you should double ckeck this) NOTE: Before you risk your electronics, _ALWAYS_ check the line levels on the reegulator board, make sure they match the schematics and your wiring harness. When you finish, repeat the procedure just to be sure. If you do not have access to a ready supply of A/R II boards, then it is fairly simple to modify the audio amplification portion of the A/R board. You will need the following: 2 1k Ohm 1/4W resistors 2 0.22 uF ceramic disc capacitors (25V) First, locate C6 and C15. These are 10uF electrolytic capacitors. If you do not have the schematics handy, follow the traces on the board. Audio 1 comes into pin 9 on connector J7, goes through a 10k Ohm resistor, then connects to the "+" side of C6. Audio 2 comes into pin 8, then into a different 10k Ohm resistor, then goes into the "+" side of C15. Once you locate C6 and C15, replace them with the 0.22uF disc capacitors (orientation doesn't matter with ceramic caps) Next find transistor Q4 and Q6. These are 2N3904's, and are used in the audio disable circuitry. Again, if you don't have schematics, keep following the traces. One leg of Q4 is connected to the "-" side of C6, and one leg of Q6 is connected to the "-" side of C15. Remove these transistors (note that this will make the audio disable circuitry ineffective) You now need to add the 1k resistors. Here is what the final circuit should look like (Audio 2 has the same topology as Audio 1): 0.22 uF 10k + | | Audio 1 ---\/\/\/\/---|----| |---------[...rest of the circuit...] (J7 pin 9) | | | | | / \ / 1k \ / | | | ----- --- - What I did was solder one leg of the 1k resistor to the ground terminal of Q4 (it has a square pad instead of a round pad) and soldered the other end to the lead on the "+" side of the 0.22uF cap. Do this for both audio inputs. For one of the audio inputs, the resistor and cap are close enough that you can connect them directly. For the other, I had to use a length of insulated wire to bridge the components together (double check that nothing is shorting!) Reconnect the board, and the distortion should be gone... (Note, as a side effect, the volume level on Asteroids will be lower than the volume level on Asteroids Deluxe, but that's what the volume control is for ;-) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 4 16:32:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 16:31:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: Audio Reg on Tempest or Gravitar Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 16:31:34 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist G'day folks, Thanks, Ray, for resending out that conversion doc! I have a copy at home, but I'm not sure if it has survived that last couple months on my bedstand (given my two toddler's habit of clearing it on a weekly basis). Sounds like I have everything I need to plug and play Asteroids Deluxe into my Asteroids cabinet (expect for an extra shield button)! About the only question I had was, "How can I tell if my Tempest AR II generates +22v and -22v?" I imagine that because this was the first color vector game from Atari that it generates many more voltages than any subsequent game, but I thought I should double check. While I have everyone's attention focussed on the Atari BW, I thought I should poll people about what games they've put into their Atari BW cabinets. Please include what cabinet you started with, what you added and how you did it (ie. plug and play while swapping control panels, menuing system and banked EPROMs, etc.). I know that Kevin Philips added Lunar Lander into his Asteroids/Asteroids Deluxe. Did Doug Jefferys ever figure out how to modify Battlezone board sets to play Red Baron? Does Red Baron's pinouts look anything like Battlezone's pinouts (excluding the control panel inputs)? Steven S Ozdemir sso ps - I have a cabaret Asteroids and caberet Battlezone. The neck of the Asteroids tube almost points straight down to the ground. Seems like it'd be funny playing Battlezone in this position, so I imagine I'll be taking my Asteroids/Asteroids Deluxe set up and moving it to the BZ. Maybe later I'll add Lunar Lander and Red Baron. >---------- >From: Ray Ghanbari[SMTP:ray@mayo.edu] >Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 1997 12:42 PM >To: vectorlist >Subject: Re: Audio Reg on Tempest or Gravitar > >You wrote: >> > What does Ray do with this supply? >> > >> >> The problem is that Asteroids Uses a Reg/Audio I board, and >> Asteroids Deluxe uses a Reg/Audio II board. The gains of the >> audio amplifiers on those boards are different, and it has to be hacked to >> get them to both operate at the same volume. > >Yup, this is what I did, although the details are a little different. >Asteroids uses a AR board, and AD uses an AR I board. > >Here is the write up I did way back when. > >Alternative was to mod the output stage on the AD PCB. I tend to not make >modifications like these to PCBs, since I hate it when others do this stuff >(heck of a time tracking things down if you have to fix it). > >Ray > > > >Addendum to Asteroids -> Asteroids Deluxe conversion > >Ray Ghanbari >ray@mayo.edu >4/9/95 > >NOTE: you are responsible for what you do, not the author or anyone else. Do > >not attempt the following conversion unless you know what you're doing and >are >willing to take responsibility for the results. 'Nuff said. > >Once you rig up your adapter and start playing, you may notice that the sound > >is heavily distorted. Fret not, this does not mean that the game is melting >down! Asteroids (and other Atari vector games) use an auxillarly board to >provide regulated power, and to provide amplification for sound. The >Audio/Regulator board in Asteroids Deluxe was the Audio/Regulator I board >(A/R >I), while Asteroids had a plain old Audio/Regulator board (A/R) > >If you look at the schematics, the only difference seems to be that the A/R >board had additional circuitry to support an Audio Disable signal. Since >this >pin is always grounded in the traditional Asteroids harness, this part of the > >circuit is never used. I guess the engineers at Atari decided Audio Disable >was no longer necessary, so they removed it from the A/R I board, and >subsequently, the Audio/Regulator II (A/R II) board that was used in >Battlezone >and Red Baron (among others) > >(As an aside, does anybody know if Lunar Lander used the Audio Disable >signal?) > >Unfortunately, when the Audio Disable circuitry was replaced, the resistor >network between the two audio inputs and the audio amplifiers changed, >changing >the signal amplitude seen by the audio amps. As a result, using the A/R >board >with Asteroids Deluxe results in the amplified signal being clipped, leading >to the heavy distortion that you hear. > >There are two ways to fix the problem. The first (and easiest) is to replace > >your A/R board with a A/R I board, or preferably, an A/R II board. The >reason >to opt for the A/R II board is that the A/R II board added support for >additional voltage levels, which you will need if you want to play Battlezone > >and Red Baron in the same cabinet. Apparently, there are different versions >of >the A/R II board available, which are configured to supply different >voltages. > Again, if you have a choice, try to find one that provides -5V (7905 voltage > >regulator), +12V (7812 voltage regulator), and the standard (?) +22V and -22V > >(unregulated). These are the additional voltages that are needed by >Battlezone. These voltages are segregated on a seperate connector on the A/R > >II board, and hence should not require any changes to you wiring harness (the > >rest of the board seems to be pin compatible with the A/R board, but you >should >double ckeck this) > >NOTE: Before you risk your electronics, _ALWAYS_ check the line levels on the > >reegulator board, make sure they match the schematics and your wiring >harness. >When you finish, repeat the procedure just to be sure. > >If you do not have access to a ready supply of A/R II boards, then it is >fairly simple to modify the audio amplification portion of the A/R board. >You >will need the following: > >2 1k Ohm 1/4W resistors >2 0.22 uF ceramic disc capacitors (25V) > >First, locate C6 and C15. These are 10uF electrolytic capacitors. If you do > >not have the schematics handy, follow the traces on the board. Audio 1 comes > >into pin 9 on connector J7, goes through a 10k Ohm resistor, then connects to > >the "+" side of C6. Audio 2 comes into pin 8, then into a different 10k Ohm >resistor, then goes into the "+" side of C15. > >Once you locate C6 and C15, replace them with the 0.22uF disc capacitors >(orientation doesn't matter with ceramic caps) > >Next find transistor Q4 and Q6. These are 2N3904's, and are used in the >audio >disable circuitry. Again, if you don't have schematics, keep following the >traces. One leg of Q4 is connected to the "-" side of C6, and one leg of Q6 >is >connected to the "-" side of C15. Remove these transistors (note that this >will make the audio disable circuitry ineffective) > >You now need to add the 1k resistors. Here is what the final circuit should >look like (Audio 2 has the same topology as Audio 1): > > 0.22 uF > 10k + | | > Audio 1 ---\/\/\/\/---|----| |---------[...rest of the circuit...] >(J7 pin 9) | | | > | > | > / > \ > / 1k > \ > / > | > | > | > ----- > --- > - > >What I did was solder one leg of the 1k resistor to the ground terminal of Q4 > >(it has a square pad instead of a round pad) and soldered the other end to >the >lead on the "+" side of the 0.22uF cap. Do this for both audio inputs. For >one of the audio inputs, the resistor and cap are close enough that you can >connect them directly. For the other, I had to use a length of insulated >wire >to bridge the components together (double check that nothing is shorting!) > >Reconnect the board, and the distortion should be gone... > >(Note, as a side effect, the volume level on Asteroids will be lower than the > >volume level on Asteroids Deluxe, but that's what the volume control is for >;-) > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 4 18:31:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 18:31:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <01BCE968.0C242FE0 > From: Frank Palazzolo To: "'vectorlist > Subject: G80 speech board question Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 21:24:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Is there really a Votrax chip in any of the Sega games? I assumed all speech comes from the SP0250, and yet there are references to the Votrax chip in the G80 Hardware reference (regarding Space Fury) and in the Astro-Blaster docs. Seems like I'd recognize that Votrax speech if I heard it.. :) Thanks, Frank Palazzolo palazzol From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 4 18:49:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 18:49:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 18:48:58 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: G80 speech board question Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist The PC layout is there on the Sega speech board, but as far as I know, it is never populated. There was one version of the manual which had a schematic for the fully populated board, which is why I included what info I was able to deduce from the drawinings. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 5 07:05:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 07:05:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199711051502.JAA11716@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Wed, 5 Nov 97 09:03:21 -0600 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Audio Reg on Tempest or Gravitar References: Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist You wrote: > While I have everyone's attention focussed on the Atari BW, I thought I > should poll people about what games they've put into their Atari BW > cabinets. Please include what cabinet you started with, what you added > and how you did it (ie. plug and play while swapping control panels, > menuing system and banked EPROMs, etc.). I started with an Asteroids cabinet. I made a coversion harness to play BZ in the same cabinet. basically, I use the rotation buttons for the left BZ control stick, the fire and thrust buttons for the right, and hyperspace to shoot. After ~4 games, you'er fine. I had to build a little regulator board to sub in the extra voltages the BZ expects for the AR II (this was before I had gobs of spare AR boards) Next came Asteroids Deluxe, which was cake (sound was only problem) Next came Lunar Lander. Very similar pinouts to Asteorids. I use Asteroids CP for the buttons, and have a parallel harness coming from the adapter to a hacked PC joystick with suction cups on the bottom. Only trick is to put some resistors in series with the joystick, since LL expects a limited range on the pot voltages (1.5-4V? it's on the schematic) I'm still for a RTC BTW ;-) Next came Red Baron. I just modded my BZ adapter to interface to my hacked PC joystick. RB has same limited voltage range as LL. Bottom line, I play all my BW vector games in my Asteroids cabinet, with a hacked PC joystick as the only control extra. I'm about to revamp these things to interface to the modular control panel scheme I'm using for my JAMMA cabinet (which is why I want a Real Thrust Controller ;-) Ray From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 5 10:46:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 10:46:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3460C096.590A > Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 13:53:10 -0500 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: My Amplifone problems solved Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist I figured out both of my Amplifone problems last night that I wrote about on Monday. I'm somewhat embarrassed by what happened, but perhaps someone else will benefit from learning from my mistakes, so I'll present the information here. With the original HV transformer back in the original HV board #1, on the suggestion by Joe, I probed around to see if the B+ was out of whack. I hooked up my volt meter to the output of CR3, and saw a fluctuating 7 - 22vdc. Hmmmmm... It was a far cry from the 180V I expected. Then I hooked up my scope for a quick sanity check. Indeed, I was getting a fluctuating 7 - 22vdc. The next step was to check and see if the winding on the HV transformer had opened up. I removed it, and indeed, found that there was no longer continuity between pins 4 and 8. Usually, this is around 2.3 ohms. I was about to chuck this in the trash when I noticed that one of the transformer wires was no longer connected to pin 4. Ta Da! I had merely a broken wire on my hands. I soldered in back in to place, reinstalled the HV transformer, and powered up the beast. It worked! Woo hoo! That's not the embarassing part though. :-) After getting this unit working, I decided to see if I had destroyed my brand new tube or not. So I installed the new tube into my test chassis. I powered everything up, and it didn't work. The tube displayed the same symtoms as it did originally - i.e. washed out picture, then the display turned all red, etc. And, the heater was glowing way to bright! Defeated, I unhooked everything and decided to put the tube back into its box and put it away for another rainy day. As I was disassembling it, I noticed one of the long pins was BENT, and it bent in such a way that it was now lined up to insert into a different pin receptacle in the neck socket!!!! DOUGHT! I straightened this pin, and tried again. This time, everything worked perfectly. It shouldn't have taken me this long to figure this out, but at least in the end I saw the problem and nothing was damaged. After this victory, I installed the old red HV unit into board #2, and that board came to life for the first time since I've owned it. Now I have two working Amplifones.. woo hoo! I still have two more HV units to work on, but I haven't even attempted to fix them yet. Perhaps some time this weekend. I hope someone else learns something useful from this experience. Now I can install one Amplifone into Tempest, and the other into Star Wars. These Amplifones just look so good! Joel- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 5 11:00:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 11:00:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971105130101.0094e100 > X-Sender: mmatelsk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 13:01:03 -0600 To: vectorlist From: Mit_Matelske (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: Need a Asteroids EHT Assembly? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist At 12:32 AM 10/28/97 -0500, you wrote: > > >I just dumpster dove for 6 old asteroids EHT cages. Sitting on top were two >WG Color EHT cages :: ) :: ) !!! NFS. > >If you need a spare b/w cage, let me know, we can trade for one, etc... All >of them look in good shape, no burnt resistors or cracked flybacks. They >seem to be interchangeable with all versions of the monitors, anyways, I have >never run into a problem. Untested. > >Bill > Bill- Got the HV cages yesterday!!! Thanks a million. Hope you got your check already, 'cause I know your thirsty :) Mit From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 5 11:05:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 11:05:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971105130737.0092b930 > X-Sender: mmatelsk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 13:07:39 -0600 To: vectorlist From: Mit_Matelske (Mit Matelske) Subject: More Amplifone stuff... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist To all who are wise: Someone (couldn't find the old post) was going to experiment with putting a Amplifone yoke on a *new* 25" tube. I was wondering if they succeeded or not ... as I am desperate to get a 25" tube back into my cockpit. Also, is the yoke sticker the same for the SW upright and cockpit? Thanks in advance, Mit From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 5 11:07:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 11:07:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971105130928.0092e6d0 > X-Sender: mmatelsk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 13:09:32 -0600 To: vectorlist From: Mit_Matelske (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: Need a Asteroids EHT Assembly? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist At 01:01 PM 11/5/97 -0600, you wrote: >At 12:32 AM 10/28/97 -0500, you wrote: >> >> >>I just dumpster dove for 6 old asteroids EHT cages. Sitting on top were two >>WG Color EHT cages :: ) :: ) !!! NFS. >> Many apologizes ... the reply button strikes again :) Mit From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 5 11:12:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 11:12:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 13:11:52 -0600 (CST) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Need a Asteroids EHT Assembly? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971105130101.0094e100 > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Mit Matelske wrote: > >of them look in good shape, no burnt resistors or cracked flybacks. They > >seem to be interchangeable with all versions of the monitors, anyways, I have > >never run into a problem. Untested. Hey All, Mit's post (it might've been unintentional?) reminded me of a question that I had. What all is swappable between a 19V2000 and a GO-5 (The version with the same connector as the 19V2000, obviously) It looks like Bill was hinting that the HV units can be swapped, but what about the deflection boards. I've got a 19V2000 that gets no picture, it seems like it gets HV (I get a nice spark when I discharge it,) it gets heater glow, and the spot killer's not lit. No fuses are blown, and I've touched up all the solder joints on both the HV board and the def. board. It sure would be nice to swap a GO-5 def. board (I've got a spare working one) in there so I'd know for sure what board was the culprit... Thanks, Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 5 11:38:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 11:38:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3460CC4D.7C413E94 > Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 14:43:09 -0500 From: Corey Stup X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Need a Asteroids EHT Assembly? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist > What all is swappable between a 19V2000 and a GO-5 (The > version > with the same connector as the 19V2000, obviously) > > It looks like Bill was hinting that the HV units can be > swapped, > but what about the deflection boards. > > I've got a 19V2000 that gets no picture, it seems like it gets > HV > (I get a nice spark when I discharge it,) it gets heater glow, and the > > spot killer's not lit. No fuses are blown, and I've touched up all the > > solder joints on both the HV board and the def. board. > > It sure would be nice to swap a GO-5 def. board (I've got a > spare working one) in there so I'd know for sure what board was the > culprit... I'd love to get some info on the 19V2000 - I have one that has no HV. No fuses are blown, and both the deflection board and HV boards are very clean, with no previous "repairs".... Anyone have any tips on this chassis? I have an extra Battlezone monitor that would fit nicely - anyone know if the connector pinouts are the same? (Battlezone upright source, Asteroids Dlx upright destination) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 5 11:46:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 11:46:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 13:45:55 -0600 (CST) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Need a Asteroids EHT Assembly? In-Reply-To: <3460CC4D.7C413E94 > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Corey Stup wrote: > I'd love to get some info on the 19V2000 - I have one that has no > HV. No fuses are blown, and both the deflection board and HV boards > are very clean, with no previous "repairs".... Anyone have any tips > on this chassis? Th two monitors are practically identical. I'm just wondering if the intermediate pinouts are identical (I expect that they are -- I'm really looking for someone who's used a GO-5 deflection board in a 19V2000 to just confirm my suspicions.) > I have an extra Battlezone monitor that would fit nicely - anyone know > if the connector pinouts are the same? (Battlezone upright source, > Asteroids Dlx upright destination) > It would work just fine. That's how I tested my Battlezone game board -- with a good GO-5 from my Asteroids Deluxe, instead of the dead 19V2000 in my Battlezone. Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 5 12:56:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 12:56:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971105125831.0070daa0 > X-Sender: sswazey X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 12:58:31 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Scott Swazey Subject: Re: Need a Asteroids EHT Assembly? In-Reply-To: <971027232617_967386658 > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Bill, I would like to buy one of the Color EHT cages Thanks, -Scott At 12:32 AM 10/28/97 -0500, you wrote: > > >I just dumpster dove for 6 old asteroids EHT cages. Sitting on top were two >WG Color EHT cages :: ) :: ) !!! NFS. > >If you need a spare b/w cage, let me know, we can trade for one, etc... All >of them look in good shape, no burnt resistors or cracked flybacks. They >seem to be interchangeable with all versions of the monitors, anyways, I have >never run into a problem. Untested. > >Bill > > Scott Swazey QUALCOMM Incorporated Work: (619) 657-2419 mailto:sswazey V-209H Pager:(619) 683-5210 From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 5 15:18:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 15:17:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: coinop Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 17:17:38 -0600 To: vectorlist From: coinop (SmashTV) Subject: Re: Need a Asteroids EHT Assembly? Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >I'd love to get some info on the 19V2000 - I have one that has no >HV. No fuses are blown, and both the deflection board and HV boards >are very clean, with no previous "repairs".... Anyone have any tips >on this chassis? I bet everyone here already has this, but I have a complete copy of the 19V2000 manual online in html format online at: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lakes/9862/page01.html I scanned and converted the book long ago, and recently moved my tech info out to Geocities to lower the metered ($$$) traffic across my site. Later all! Timothy Ellis AKA SmashTV (IRC Nickname) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 5 15:20:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 15:20:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 16:19:12 -0700 To: vectorlist From: jeffh (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: More Amplifone stuff... Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist That was me, I havn't had a chance to try it yet. My cockpit star wars, with a 19" ampliphone, is behind a cockpit star wars with a wells, which is behind a major havoc. I did use a multimeter and checked the pins on the 25" vers a 19" and I got the exact same readings across identical pins. I put a yoke on it from an ampliphone 19" xy monitor, so all I have left to do is hook it up, plug it in, close my eyes and flip the switch. I'll try and do it this weekend, if you don't hear back from me, I'm probably dead. -jeff ps. Not only is the yoke sticker the same, but the entire front panel is the same (control panel AND monitor bezel). (I didn't realize this until I had an upright sitting next to a cockpit) >To all who are wise: > >Someone (couldn't find the old post) was going to experiment with >putting a Amplifone yoke on a *new* 25" tube. I was wondering if >they succeeded or not ... as I am desperate to get a 25" tube back >into my cockpit. > >Also, is the yoke sticker the same for the SW upright and cockpit? > >Thanks in advance, > >Mit jeffh Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 5 16:11:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 16:11:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: More Amplifone stuff... Date: Thu, 06 Nov 1997 00:13:10 GMT Message-ID: <34660327.422145954 > References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Wed, 5 Nov 1997 16:19:12 -0700, jeffh (Jeff Hendrix) wrote: >That was me, I havn't had a chance to try it yet. My cockpit star wars, >with a 19" ampliphone, is behind a cockpit star wars with a wells, which= is >behind a major havoc. >I did use a multimeter and checked the pins on the 25" vers a 19" and I = got >the exact same readings across identical pins. I put a yoke on it from = an >ampliphone 19" xy monitor, so all I have left to do is hook it up, plug = it >in, close my eyes and flip the switch. I'll try and do it this weekend, = if >you don't hear back from me, I'm probably dead. > >-jeff > >ps. Not only is the yoke sticker the same, but the entire front panel is >the same (control panel AND monitor bezel). (I didn't realize this until= I >had an upright sitting next to a cockpit) I have a copy of the Amplifone manual in my truck and I looked at it at lunch time. Unfortunately the yoke assembly for the 25" has a different number than the yoke assembly for a 19". This doesn't mean they're not the same thing, just numbered differently. The fact Jeff's two yokes have the same number is a good sign. It could be they original gave them separate part numbers, and then because they were really the same part, used them interchangeably. A stock room nightmare, but done all the time by assemblers and technicians that are working on a deadline and don't have time to wait for someone to put the "right sticker" on a part. Another good sign is that both CRTs are described as 90 degree CRTs. (I think that's the maximum deflection to angle, measured at the guns, to cover the whole screen, but I'm guessing here.) Since the angles are the same, I'm assuming the yokes could be very similar. Also there is no reference made to different HV voltages on 19" and 25" tubes. I thought larger tubes were driven with higher voltages, but that could be that raster tubes have a larger surface area that must be scanned at a faster rate so that the refresh rates are the same as the smaller tubes. Maybe that's not as critical in vector monitors. If this works, this would be cool. Next would be to cross reference the part number on the tube to a common raster monitor that uses the same tube. I want 25" tubes in all my games! I have a friend who says he had a friend who put a 25" in a Tempest, and it was like being there! (Being where? Where was Tempest filmed?) As a side thought, it seems to me that most current picture tubes are rated at 110 degrees (for shorter tubes), that could throw a wrench in the idea of putting a Amplifone yoke on one of the newer 31-33" tubes. Maybe you can just drive the yoke harder... -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ concentric . net -------| // \\/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 5 16:23:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 16:23:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 16:24:38 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: More Amplifone stuff... Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >Unfortunately the yoke assembly for the 25" has a different number than >the yoke assembly for a 19". This doesn't mean they're not the same >thing, just numbered differently. The fact Jeff's two yokes have the >same number is a good sign. It could be they original gave them >separate part numbers, and then because they were really the same part, >used them interchangeably. For what it's worth, I seem to recall in old Wico catalogs that the replacement Wico part numbers are also the same for the two. Have any of you really looked at the wire used in the yokes to determine what it is? I'd be game to try to hand wrap one of these things if I thought I could get the right wire... ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 5 16:33:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 16:33:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: More Amplifone stuff... Date: Thu, 06 Nov 1997 00:35:07 GMT Message-ID: <34690fdc.425400081 > References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Wed, 5 Nov 1997 16:24:38 -0800, Clay Cowgill wrote: >>Unfortunately the yoke assembly for the 25" has a different number than >>the yoke assembly for a 19". This doesn't mean they're not the same >>thing, just numbered differently. The fact Jeff's two yokes have the >>same number is a good sign. It could be they original gave them >>separate part numbers, and then because they were really the same part, >>used them interchangeably. > >For what it's worth, I seem to recall in old Wico catalogs that the >replacement Wico part numbers are also the same for the two. Very cool. > >Have any of you really looked at the wire used in the yokes to determine >what it is? I'd be game to try to hand wrap one of these things if I >thought I could get the right wire... ;-) It's not the wire, it's the shape. On the outside it looks like a standard coil, but when you take the yoke off you see that on the inside it has been machine formed into just the right shape to fit around the tube. I think it would be similar to winding the coils used in the pancake motors used to spin floppy disk drives -- just a bit harder because of the strange angles of the yoke. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ concentric . net -------| // \\/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 5 17:42:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 17:42:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 17:43:10 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: More Amplifone stuff... Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >It's not the wire, it's the shape. On the outside it looks like a >standard coil, but when you take the yoke off you see that on the inside >it has been machine formed into just the right shape to fit around the >tube. I think it would be similar to winding the coils used in the >pancake motors used to spin floppy disk drives -- just a bit harder >because of the strange angles of the yoke. I was thinking more along the lines of something like "18 ga magnet wire" or something. I have phrases of "low inductance yoke windings" and crap in my head, dunno if it's marketing hype or if the wire was something special or what... Basically I'm curious if it's just plain old magnet wire and what gauge. That should get you in the ballpark as far as inductance and series resistance. (So it'd be safe to hook up, even if it wasn't formed exactly right.) From there I bet you can get to the "pretty good" picture quality just by hand-forming the coils. There's probably improvements to be made somehow too-- maybe with that slightly square magnet wire or something to keep the size down. Armed with the knowledge of the wire type and a rough turn count you could probably take the yoke off a GO-7, pull all the wire off and wrap a crude XY yoke. IMHO, that's the main stumbling block to making "new" XY monitors. I think we could cobble up the deflection and HV sections, but I doubt we could buy many off-the shelf XY yokes. ;-) (And if anyplace does make them they're probably pretty $pendy.) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Nov 6 04:45:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 6 Nov 1997 04:45:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 07:44:49 -0500 (EST) From: Dangerwil Message-ID: <971106074448_276417303 > To: vectorlist Subject: Re: More Amplifone stuff... Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Well, I have seen the 25 inch tube being driven by a WG 19 chasis set up, the defelection was adjusted in pretty close, but still much larger than a 19". Judging from the amount of dust, it had been working for quite sometime. It shouldn't be too much different than using 13" B/W parts in a 19" B/W mon. I use them pretty much interchangeably with no problems so far.... Bill From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Nov 6 07:10:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 6 Nov 1997 07:09:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971106091042.00959500 > X-Sender: mmatelsk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 1997 09:10:43 -0600 To: vectorlist From: Mit_Matelske (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: More Amplifone stuff... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist At 07:44 AM 11/6/97 -0500, you wrote: >Well, > > I have seen the 25 inch tube being driven by a WG 19 chasis set up, the >defelection was adjusted in pretty close, but still much larger than a 19". > Judging from the amount of dust, it had been working for quite sometime. > > It shouldn't be too much different than using 13" B/W parts in a 19" B/W >mon. I use them pretty much interchangeably with no problems so far.... > > >Bill > When my 25" tube decided to bite the dust, I did nothing more than rig up some brackets and stick a 19" tube in my SW. Also, along the same lines as Bill, when I had a bunch of games that used g05's I used to swap parts constantly between the 13" cocktails and 19" uprights... Mit From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Nov 7 19:07:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 7 Nov 1997 19:06:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: coinop Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 21:06:38 -0600 To: vectorlist From: coinop (SmashTV) Subject: New mailing list Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Hey all. Missing the more peacefull old days of RGVAC, I have started a new tech only mailing list. For info or to join go to: http://www.telepath.com/dgateway/coinop/list.html Thanks Timothy Ellis From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Nov 10 16:27:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 10 Nov 1997 16:27:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison ) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 18:26:37 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9711101826.ZM7881@calcite> In-Reply-To: "Mark Jenison" "Re: deadbeat list" (Aug 19, 4:08pm) References: <199708191646.MAA11604 > <9708191208.ZM26826@calcite> <9708191608.ZM1035@calcite> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist Subject: Follow up (Re: deadbeat list) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Follow up to Rocky Palmisano... I agreed that a Pac-Man manual would be fine for a replacement. I never heard from him again. Any luck, Mit? On Aug 19, 4:08pm, Mark Jenison wrote: > Subject: Re: deadbeat list > On Aug 19, 12:08pm, Mark Jenison wrote: > > Subject: Re: deadbeat list > > On Aug 19, 11:44am, Mit Matelske wrote: > > > Subject: Re: deadbeat list > > > At 09:18 AM 8/19/97 -0700, you wrote: > > > > > > > >The only two people I know of are Mixon and Rocky. > > > > > > > > > > Would that Rocky happen to be: > > > > > > Rocky Palmisano > > > 5304 1/2 Belle Terre Rd. > > > Marrero, La 70072 > > > > > > If so, I hope I don't regret sending him 20 bucks for a Tac/Scan manual and > > > shemactics this morning... > > > > > > Couldn't ya'll had this conversion yesterday? > > FYI update on Rocky Palmisano... > > He contacted me and said he was going to send me the Tac/Scan manual even > though he had some it to someone else. I told him not to disrupt any current > deals he had with anyone else, and I have him the option of sending me another > manual or refunding my money. > > At least he seemed like he honestly wanted to resolve the matter. Apparently > his divorce was the reason for all the problem he was having with resolving > orders. > > Anyway, I'm just glad to see that things can get resolved in the end... > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison > Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >-- End of excerpt from Mark Jenison From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Nov 10 22:53:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 10 Nov 1997 22:53:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 19:51:51 -0600 (CST) From: Frank McIngvale X-Sender: frankm@localhost To: vectorlist Subject: Follow up (Re: deadbeat list) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist > Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 18:26:37 -0600 (CST) > From: Mark Jenison > To: vectorlist > Subject: Follow up (Re: deadbeat list) > > Follow up to Rocky Palmisano... > > I agreed that a Pac-Man manual would be fine for a replacement. I never heard > from him again. My 2 cents --- Rocky Racoon assured me twice that he would ship my manuals "soon" ... Haven't heard anything in months. I'm out about $53 ... Do I win the prize for "biggest sucker"? frankm From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 11 07:25:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 11 Nov 1997 07:25:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971111092730.00958460 > X-Sender: mmatelsk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 09:27:41 -0600 To: vectorlist From: Mit_Matelske (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: Follow up (Re: deadbeat list) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist At 06:26 PM 11/10/97 -0600, you wrote: >Follow up to Rocky Palmisano... > >I agreed that a Pac-Man manual would be fine for a replacement. I never heard >from him again. > >Any luck, Mit? > >On Aug 19, 4:08pm, Mark Jenison wrote: >> Subject: Re: deadbeat list >> On Aug 19, 12:08pm, Mark Jenison wrote: >> > Subject: Re: deadbeat list >> > On Aug 19, 11:44am, Mit Matelske wrote: >> > > Subject: Re: deadbeat list >> > > At 09:18 AM 8/19/97 -0700, you wrote: >> > > > >> > > >The only two people I know of are Mixon and Rocky. >> > > > >> > > >> > > Would that Rocky happen to be: >> > > >> > > Rocky Palmisano >> > > 5304 1/2 Belle Terre Rd. >> > > Marrero, La 70072 >> > > >> > > If so, I hope I don't regret sending him 20 bucks for a Tac/Scan manual >and >> > > shemactics this morning... >> > > >> > > Couldn't ya'll had this conversion yesterday? >> >> FYI update on Rocky Palmisano... >> >> He contacted me and said he was going to send me the Tac/Scan manual even >> though he had some it to someone else. I told him not to disrupt any current >> deals he had with anyone else, and I have him the option of sending me >another >> manual or refunding my money. >> >> At least he seemed like he honestly wanted to resolve the matter. Apparently >> his divorce was the reason for all the problem he was having with resolving >> orders. >> >> Anyway, I'm just glad to see that things can get resolved in the end... >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison >> Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>-- End of excerpt from Mark Jenison > > > Mark- Nope. Droped him a couple of emails in the past couple of weeks, but no response... Thanks for the update, Mit Matelske From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 11 09:49:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 11 Nov 1997 09:49:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <34689C41.6C3D > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 12:56:17 -0500 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: ESB / NOVRAM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist I've got Clay's ESB Hack Rev 1.0 in my Star Wars, i.e. this is the type without the dual novram setup that I drool over. I've noticed that if I have a high score setting (top 3) in Star Wars, these are retained from game to game, whereas if I switch to ESB, get a top 3 score there, then switch back to SW, it's a gamble whether or not my settings have been destroyed in Star Wars. That is to say that sometimes when I switch between games, I lose my Star Wars high score table, and sometimes, I do not. ESB settings have never been retained. Why is this so? Does anyone else have this problem? I'm going to install a second NOVRAM eventually, but I'd like to know why ESB doesn't always write to it sucessfully. I figure that if it can't write to it now, then it's not going to be able to write to it when it has it's very own. Thanks, Joel- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 11 10:53:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 11 Nov 1997 10:53:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist Cc: "Ozdemir, Steve" Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 18:55:13 GMT Message-ID: <346da7a9.429569102 > References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:03:41 -0700, "Ozdemir, Steve" wrote: >G'day Zonn, > >Please provide more details. Who makes this "universal exercisor" and I >assume that the signatures come with it? > >I've never heard of any other signature analysis beyond the Atari Cat >and Cinematronics Exercisor stuff. Was signature analysis used for >other games? I finally got the goods from Gaymond. Apparently he did have the full Cinematronics exercisor from Kurtz-Kash. It contains 14 ICs and looks a lot like the one Steve O. showed me, with very similar plugs, and without a case -- to work it must be plugged into the Kurtz-Kash test fixture where it appears to get nothing but power. I'm now waiting on documentation which resides in Texas... It looks like the KK unit will do the same thing as the Cinematronics, but if you wanted to duplicate one, the stand-alone Cinematronics is the way to go -- though like I said, I think all you need to use this one as a stand alone unit is a power supply. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ concentric . net -------| // \\/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 11 11:22:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 11 Nov 1997 11:21:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971111132339.00957100 > X-Sender: mmatelsk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 13:23:51 -0600 To: vectorlist From: Mit_Matelske (Mit Matelske) Subject: Major Havoc Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist A couple of questions : 1 . What all does the "quad pokey" daughterboard do? I got a MH boardset yesterday without it. 2 . Would it be easy to duplicate (haven't downloaded the schematics yet) 3 . What all does the tempest->mh adapter do (once again, no schematics yet) Thanks in advance, Mit Matelske What the hell - anyone got any extras (and tempest->mh adapters) do sell? From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 11 11:46:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 11 Nov 1997 11:45:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 11:46:59 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Major Havoc Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >A couple of questions : > >1 . What all does the "quad pokey" daughterboard do? I got a MH boardset > yesterday without it. This is the source of the sound/music for the game. >2 . Would it be easy to duplicate (haven't downloaded the schematics yet) Yep. Two layer, pretty simple. Main problem there is that it's physically a pretty large PCB. Just be kinda expensive to make. >3 . What all does the tempest->mh adapter do (once again, no schematics yet) It's "active" function is to correct the "bowing" of the display on a Wells Gardner monitor. It might have some passive function to re-route some I/O lines too-- I doubt it though. (Don't recall off the top of my head.) >Thanks in advance, > >Mit Matelske > >What the hell - anyone got any extras (and tempest->mh adapters) do sell? I'm going to make some display correctors (they work with Star Wars/Major Havoc), but the Sega Multigame has been eating all my time... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 11 11:52:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 11 Nov 1997 11:52:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 12:51:47 -0700 To: vectorlist From: jeffh (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: Major Havoc Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >A couple of questions : > >1 . What all does the "quad pokey" daughterboard do? I got a MH boardset > yesterday without it. The Quad pokey board is for the sound effects. > >2 . Would it be easy to duplicate (haven't downloaded the schematics yet) I don't think it would be too hard to dupe. if I remember right, there are only 4 pokey chips on it and nothing else (I'll double check tonight) > >3 . What all does the tempest->mh adapter do (once again, no schematics yet) The adapter allows a mh bs to plug directly into a tempest. It also moves the x & y adjustment pots to the adapter (the pots on the main pcb are disabled). I think it might also compensate for pincushioning on a wells monitor. You can just wire up a new harness and just forget about the adapter and everything should work ok (the dedicated hm had no adapter) > >Thanks in advance, > >Mit Matelske > >What the hell - anyone got any extras (and tempest->mh adapters) do sell? jeffh Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 11 12:12:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 11 Nov 1997 12:12:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 12:13:34 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Sega Multigame (Finally!) Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Finally! Ready to roll on the Sega Multigame! I took a prototype over to a friend's house and removed his EPROM card and CPU board and popped the whole thing into a "real" G-80 system. Works like a charm! Found a couple software glitches (a visual one and a control one) but have those fixed now. All "production" parts are verified and the schematic is in OrCAD Capture. I've outputted the netlist and routed a two-layer board with OrCAD Layout Plus. I'll double check the netlist against the prototype and send off for boards probably early next week (or late this week maybe). So... I'm going to order about 16-20 boards. Now's the time for a real headcount on this one. I'll sell the kit to people on this list for $75. That includes the daughtercard (assembled), instructions, a replacement PROM, and the associated software (on the daughtercard). I'm going to pay Dave Fish a royalty on each card to say "thanks" for getting the copy-protection cracked for us. I'm also keeping a cut on these for my time on the menu system and all the software patches to make the games play from a universal control panel. If you want one (or more than one) please send me a note to: clay I don't want to get too many extras, but I don't want to get too few either. If you've already sent me a note saying you wanted a board(s) please send it again-- the first request was just to gauge interest level. I'll probably sell any spares over in RGVAM for $100 a pop. (For some reason it seems like my "tech support" level goes up dramatically when "kits" go to people outside of this group of people... ;-) Oh, Al-- your's is free for the EPROMs and pulling all the programming info together. ;-) ------Some specs/techy stuff if you're interested------ The Daughtercard houses a single 27C040 or 27C080 EPROM. (512K or 1024K bytes of ROM.) I'll ship it with a 27C040 that includes: Star Trek Eliminator (plays from Star Trek Control panel) Space Fury (plays from Star Trek Control panel) Tac/Scan (plays from Star Trek Control panel) Zektor (plays from Star Trek Control panel) Eliminator (2player, unmodified except to remove protection) Eliminator (4player, unmodified except to remove protection) Self Test (Runs from inside Star Trek) The Menu system is invoked by pressing the NMI button. There is a space on the PCB to add a couple wires that run out to a switch (or other signal) that you can mount someplace else. (Hacker note: you can take a little PIC and wire it up to P1 and P2 start buttons and have it assert NMI after pressing and holding the buttons down for 3 seconds or something.) There's also a place for wires for a reset switch. If I get it done in time I'll include a new game. :-) It's just "Breakout", but might be kinda neat... I'll post updates to the menu system as any improvements happen. You can burn your own 27C040's or 27C080's, or I'll burn them for you for a few bucks and shipping. If anyone wants it, you can have the source to the menu system too if you want to roll your own. (I can make a menu system for the 27C080 that includes all the cracked but unmodified versions as well-- the 27C080 is just too expensive to buy a whole bunch of at once for putting on every board...) The Daughtercard has two latches: 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 Latch0: y y y y [--BANK--] Latch1: x x x x x x x x Latch 0 serves as a bank select register for the EPROM. The upper four bits (yyyy) output an active positive "select" bit that can be used to control some relays or whatever for choosing a sound card. (0001 = USB, 0010 = Eliminator, 0100 = Space Fury, 1000 = Zektor) Latch 1 is reserved as a "video expansion" latch. Basically it's an output port that controls a little video adapter card that provides software controlled width and height adjustment and screen "rotation" (for tac/scan). The hardware/software isn't done yet. Both latches come out to a 20 pin .1" dual header if you want to experiment with anything. Like... + 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 = + 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 = Top row is latch 0, bottom row is latch 1. = is ground, + is +5Vdc. That's it for now. E-mail if you want one! -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 11 13:23:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 11 Nov 1997 13:23:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: Major Havoc To: vectorlist Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 14:28:29 -0700 (MST) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: from "Clay Cowgill" at Nov 11, 97 11:46:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <3468cdfd0.2d46 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 786 Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist > > >2 . Would it be easy to duplicate (haven't downloaded the schematics yet) > > Yep. Two layer, pretty simple. Main problem there is that it's physically > a pretty large PCB. Just be kinda expensive to make. Actually there are two varieties of quad pokeys floating around. There is the board with 4 pokeys (40-pin socketed) on it. There is also another version where atari turned out a tiny little board with 4 blobs on it (each blob is a pokey die directly attached to the board).. I prefer the "big" version because it is fixable.. :) Kurt /* * This version of Kurt Mahan is currently being evaluated. Words he speaks * are those of him only and not those of Novell or anybody else. * * Novell Java Technologies R&D Group * * Kurt Mahan * kmahan */ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 11 14:03:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 11 Nov 1997 14:02:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 14:03:32 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Major Havoc Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >> >> >2 . Would it be easy to duplicate (haven't downloaded the schematics yet) >> >> Yep. Two layer, pretty simple. Main problem there is that it's physically >> a pretty large PCB. Just be kinda expensive to make. > >Actually there are two varieties of quad pokeys floating around. > >There is the board with 4 pokeys (40-pin socketed) on it. There is also >another version where atari turned out a tiny little board with 4 blobs >on it (each blob is a pokey die directly attached to the board).. I prefer >the "big" version because it is fixable.. :) Kurt's right-- Atari had problems with production of the chip-on-board (die-on-board) version at first so the Quad Pokey eliminator PCB was designed and used (mostly?) on Major Havoc. The Return of the Jedi game has the actual Quad Pokey, as did most Fire Foxes I've run across. I dunno what else had them... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 11 15:09:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 11 Nov 1997 15:09:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison ) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 17:08:43 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9711111708.ZM28262@calcite> In-Reply-To: Clay Cowgill "Sega Multigame (Finally!)" (Nov 11, 12:13pm) References: <199711112030.PAA08652 > X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Sega Multigame (Finally!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Nov 11, 12:13pm, Clay Cowgill wrote: > Subject: Sega Multigame (Finally!) > Finally! > > Ready to roll on the Sega Multigame! I took a prototype over to a friend's > house and removed his EPROM card and CPU board and popped the whole thing > into a "real" G-80 system. Works like a charm! Found a couple software > glitches (a visual one and a control one) but have those fixed now. > > All "production" parts are verified and the schematic is in OrCAD Capture. > I've outputted the netlist and routed a two-layer board with OrCAD Layout > Plus. I'll double check the netlist against the prototype and send off for > boards probably early next week (or late this week maybe). > > So... I'm going to order about 16-20 boards. Now's the time for a real > headcount on this one. > > I'll sell the kit to people on this list for $75. That includes the > daughtercard (assembled), instructions, a replacement PROM, and the > associated software (on the daughtercard). I'm going to pay Dave Fish a > royalty on each card to say "thanks" for getting the copy-protection > cracked for us. I'm also keeping a cut on these for my time on the menu > system and all the software patches to make the games play from a universal > control panel. > > If you want one (or more than one) please send me a note to: clay > > I don't want to get too many extras, but I don't want to get too few either. > If you've already sent me a note saying you wanted a board(s) please send > it again-- the first request was just to gauge interest level. > > I'll probably sell any spares over in RGVAM for $100 a pop. (For some > reason it seems like my "tech support" level goes up dramatically when > "kits" go to people outside of this group of people... ;-) > > Oh, Al-- your's is free for the EPROMs and pulling all the programming info > together. ;-) Hi all, As you probably all know, I've got plenty of spare CPU boards which I'd like to get rid of. At one time I went through them and tested them all, but they've been moved around so much that I can't guarantee they still work (but they probably do). Box of 10 CPU boards for $50 sound fair? (Misc security chips, mostly Space Fury). Heck, at the least you'd have 10 Z-80's and 40 2114 RAMs per box; that's worth something :-) Box of 30 XY pair, untested, no ribbon cables, make offer Box of 20 speech boards, untested/unpopulated, make offer (Might as well get rid of this stuff now before Clay makes a single board multigame and this stuff becomes entirely obsolete...) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 11 15:27:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 11 Nov 1997 15:27:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3468E769.6F21 > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 16:16:57 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Major Havoc References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Clay Cowgill wrote: > > >> > >> >2 . Would it be easy to duplicate (haven't downloaded the schematics yet) > >> > >> Yep. Two layer, pretty simple. Main problem there is that it's physically > >> a pretty large PCB. Just be kinda expensive to make. > > > >Actually there are two varieties of quad pokeys floating around. > > > >There is the board with 4 pokeys (40-pin socketed) on it. There is also > >another version where atari turned out a tiny little board with 4 blobs > >on it (each blob is a pokey die directly attached to the board).. I prefer > >the "big" version because it is fixable.. :) > > Kurt's right-- Atari had problems with production of the chip-on-board > (die-on-board) version at first so the Quad Pokey eliminator PCB was > designed and used (mostly?) on Major Havoc. The Return of the Jedi game > has the actual Quad Pokey, as did most Fire Foxes I've run across. I dunno > what else had them... I thought that the quad pokey eliminator was used because the quad pokey IC was not done with manufacturing yet? The eliminator (big PCB) was only used on Major Havoc whereas the custom IC was used on RotJ and Firefox (as Clay said) but both of them came out after Major Havoc. I actually prefer the small custom IC since it doesn't cover all IC's within 1" of it. :=0 Off topic: anyone going to Pin Expo? I will have a booth for "The Game Spot" there. See ya' there! jess -- Jess M. Askey ************* My Page *************** ESLB/The Audio Analyst * http://magenta.com/havoc * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B **********Pins/Vids For Sale ******** Laramie WY 82070 * http://magenta.com/havoc/game-spot * From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 11 15:31:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 11 Nov 1997 15:31:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 15:32:27 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Sega Multigame FAQ Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Getting some pretty good questions, so I think I'll just reply to all and make a running "FAQ" that I'll put on my webpage. Q) Your card replaces the cpu board. So will this make the board cages a bit more reliable? A) Point of clarification-- it doesn't actually replace the CPU board. It plugs into the CPU board. It *does* replace the entire EPROM board. The EPROM board is loaded with old hot-running EPROMs, so the whole thing should run cooler. Far fewer components to go bad too, so I would expect overall system reliability to increase at least a bit. Q) I am having a HARD time finding a Tac/Scan or Star Treck CP, could a tempest spinner work without afecting game play ? A) It should work pretty closely. The number of slots are different though, so the Tempest spinner should rotate faster for an equal number of turns. (That could make Zektor pretty zippy...) You'll still need a "Single Player Control Interface" board to use the spinner though. I don't have one of these myself so I was thinking about making a couple. Let me know if any of you would like one... I also have a PIC microcontroller that acts as a general-purpose "spinner" interface (so one wheel can "talk" Sega G-80, Atari, Omega Race, and TRON/MCRII formats)-- again, let me know if I should make it available. Q) Will the self test be availble for each game ? A) Right now, no. There's nothing technically prohibiting it, but it's pretty tedious patching the self-test code and it adds quite a bit of code to the multi-game menu. (I only have about 512 bytes left without playing some tricks.) The daughtercard runs the Star Trek self test which will test the RAM, Video system, multipliers, spinner, all buttons, and Universal Sound Board. If people are really worried about testing the other sound boards I can probably cobble something together, but I'll make it available on the web later for those that want it. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 11 15:45:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 11 Nov 1997 15:44:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971111174533.00926b80 > X-Sender: mmatelsk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 17:45:34 -0600 To: vectorlist From: Mit_Matelske (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: Major Havoc Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Ye wise ones ... Thanks all for answering my questions!! I was pretty sure of the answers, I just wanted to ask the experts. Now I just have to put an Amplifone in my tempest, and fab a quad pokey board :( Mit From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 11 16:18:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 11 Nov 1997 16:18:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: Major Havoc To: vectorlist Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 17:30:10 -0700 (MST) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971111174533.00926b80 > from "Mit Matelske" at Nov 11, 97 05:45:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <3468f8930.33fc > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 564 Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist > Thanks all for answering my questions!! I was pretty sure of the > answers, I just wanted to ask the experts. Now I just have to > put an Amplifone in my tempest, and fab a quad pokey board :( If you actually lay out a board for a Quad Pokey let me know -- I'd like to buy several (don't need the parts, just the boards..) Kurt /* * This version of Kurt Mahan is currently being evaluated. Words he speaks * are those of him only and not those of Novell or anybody else. * * Novell Java Technologies R&D Group * * Kurt Mahan * kmahan */ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 11 16:32:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 11 Nov 1997 16:32:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34691366.885 > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 18:24:38 -0800 From: Kev X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Follow up (Re: deadbeat list) References: <3.0.32.19971111092730.00958460 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Okay if we are talking deadbeats..... Jack Shields, SHEL93 owes me a Devil Fish PCB and a Mayday Marquee for over 1 year now as the results of a very favorable trade for him (I sent him 2 Galaga boots, one reportedly bad and a nice DK control panel). DVegro , owes me a Galaxian repair manual part 2, and the Pac Man troubleshooting part 2 manual for several months now. John Roesner , owe me Dog Patch schematics, Midway 8080 Troubleshooting manuals, for several months now. -- Kev http://www.erols.com/mowerman <- Coin Op Video Game site REMOVE "?" FROM MY E-MAIL Looking for any Pac Man info & a few good PCBs... From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 11 16:55:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 11 Nov 1997 16:55:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34691AFB.39E2@mail.idt.net> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 18:56:59 -0800 From: mayday19 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Major Havoc References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Jeff Hendrix wrote: > > >A couple of questions : > > > >1 . What all does the "quad pokey" daughterboard do? I got a MH boardset > > yesterday without it. > > The Quad pokey board is for the sound effects. it also controls the game's inputs.. > > > >2 . Would it be easy to duplicate (haven't downloaded the schematics yet) > > I don't think it would be too hard to dupe. if I remember right, there are > only 4 pokey chips on it and nothing else (I'll double check tonight) only 4 pokeys.. probably be easier to make one than trying to find a quad-POKEY. they are only found on I,Robot and Firefox boards.. I'd hook you up with one cheap as I have about 10 Firefox boardsets, but they are 1500 miles away :( > >3 . What all does the tempest->mh adapter do (once again, no schematics yet) > > The adapter allows a mh bs to plug directly into a tempest. It also >moves > the x & y adjustment pots to the adapter (the pots on the main pcb are > disabled). I think it might also compensate for pincushioning on a wells > monitor. it does compensate for the pincushoning the WG monitor gets. MH is designed to be used with an amplifone, and to use the adapter boards most of the output circuitry is byassed and send straight into the adapter board thorough jumpers on unused connectors on the game PCB. > You can just wire up a new harness and just forget about the adapter and > everything should work ok (the dedicated hm had no adapter) you can, but you will get pincusioning, not really all that annoying, I wired a MH in a tempest cab once when the adapter board I had at the time broke.. it doesn't look that bad. if you need manuals, I have about 3 copies left of the complete MH manual set, including the conversion manauls and the ammendums. $13 ppd. good quality double-sided copies with a color cover for the main MH manual. also have a few Quantum copies left too.. Jeff -- http://idt.net/~mayday19 From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 11 17:11:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 11 Nov 1997 17:11:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) To: vectorlist Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 18:58:12 -0600 Subject: Quad POKEY db Message-ID: <19971111.190654.10110.0.gonzothegreat > References: <3468f8930.33fc > X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3,5-7 From: gonzothegreat (Alan J McCormick) Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist A few years back I used a copy of EasyTrax (a freeware DOS PCB layout app) to copy the 4xPOKEY db. I never got around to etching a copy because I got a MH with a DB from Kurt in trade for a Blaster stick :) If anybody wants an untested PCB layout for the DB, I can dig it up from my backups in the next day or two. Virtu-Al From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 11 17:27:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 11 Nov 1997 17:27:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 17:28:26 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Marks G-80 parts... Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist If any of you pick up the 30 vector boards from Mark I'd like to get a set (or two-- untested is fine) since my spare is dead and I plan on working on G-80 stuff for a little while longer at least. ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 11 17:30:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 11 Nov 1997 17:30:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 17:29:57 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Marks G-80 parts... Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist 30 are too many sets for me, too... why not break it into smaller lots? I would go for 5 or 6 sets for $100 or so. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Nov 11 17:42:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 11 Nov 1997 17:42:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 17:43:39 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: ESB stuff... Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Hi all. Ran across something "new" yesterday. I had sold a "new style" ESB kit to someone that couldn't get it to work, so after swapping it out (for another fully tested kit) to no avail I agreed to take a look at it if he sent it to me. I got the boardset and somewhat to my suprise I found that it's a DIFFERENT CPU board than the rest I'd seen. This one is a Rev "A" board (in the 20 or 30 Star Wars boards I've worked on I've never seen a Rev "A" before). The only obvious difference is that the motherboard has been hand modified to allow the 27128 (1F or 1M, don't recall)-- pin 26 has been isolated from the +5 rail and a long blue jumper-wire was added to pick up the address line from somewhere. I only mention this because all attempts by me to get the ESB kit installed in this thing have failed. Something weird is going on and I can't quite see it yet. Just bizarre. The game starts just fine, but then resets at the beginning of the game play with ESB. The other "odd" bit is that the PCB has the serial number sticker which suggests something in the middle of the production run-- UR005xxx. Go figure. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 12 01:10:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 01:10:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34696E8A.1C12FB21@telis.org> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 00:53:31 -0800 From: Bill Esquivel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Major Havoc References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Are the quad pokeys on firefox and ROTJ as the one on MH? I have a weird looking quad pokey. Instead of the board socket being in the middle, this one is off in the corner. The 4 chips are all in a row. on the front it says a041774 atari 83 on the back it says 041775-01 pct f 084 any ideas? Clay Cowgill wrote: > >> > >> >2 . Would it be easy to duplicate (haven't downloaded the schematics yet) > >> > >> Yep. Two layer, pretty simple. Main problem there is that it's physically > >> a pretty large PCB. Just be kinda expensive to make. > > > >Actually there are two varieties of quad pokeys floating around. > > > >There is the board with 4 pokeys (40-pin socketed) on it. There is also > >another version where atari turned out a tiny little board with 4 blobs > >on it (each blob is a pokey die directly attached to the board).. I prefer > >the "big" version because it is fixable.. :) > > Kurt's right-- Atari had problems with production of the chip-on-board > (die-on-board) version at first so the Quad Pokey eliminator PCB was > designed and used (mostly?) on Major Havoc. The Return of the Jedi game > has the actual Quad Pokey, as did most Fire Foxes I've run across. I dunno > what else had them... > > -Clay > > Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager > _______________________________________________________________________ > /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay > \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 12 05:30:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 05:29:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 08:29:18 -0500 (EST) From: Dangerwil Message-ID: <971112082917_2037778031@mrin39> To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Sega Multigame (Finally!) Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist In a message dated 97-11-11 19:41:48 EST, you write: > ll "production" parts are verified and the schematic is in OrCAD Capture. > I've outputted the netlist and routed a two-layer board with OrCAD Layout > Plus. I'll double check the netlist against the prototype and send off for > boards probably early next week (or late this week maybe). > Clay, Please put me down for 1 complete, Sega Multigame kit. I will send you a MO for $75 in a couple of days. Thanks, Bill From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 12 05:41:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 05:41:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 08:40:58 -0500 (EST) From: Dangerwil Message-ID: <971112084058_1404364529 > To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Sega Multigame (Finally!) Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist OOPS , the reply button strike again, WAKE UP> From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 12 08:01:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 08:00:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: Sega Multigame (Finally!) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 08:00:23 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist G'day Mark, I might be interested in some back ups. Sure I have five sets now, but 10 years from now, I'd probably appreciate having some "possibly working" parts to swap in. How about breaking it up into several sets, Mark? Steven S Ozdemir sso >---------- >From: Mark Jenison[SMTP:jenison ] >Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 1997 3:08 PM >To: vectorlist >Subject: Re: Sega Multigame (Finally!) > >On Nov 11, 12:13pm, Clay Cowgill wrote: >> Subject: Sega Multigame (Finally!) >> Finally! >> >> Ready to roll on the Sega Multigame! I took a prototype over to a friend's >> house and removed his EPROM card and CPU board and popped the whole thing >> into a "real" G-80 system. Works like a charm! Found a couple software >> glitches (a visual one and a control one) but have those fixed now. >> >> All "production" parts are verified and the schematic is in OrCAD Capture. >> I've outputted the netlist and routed a two-layer board with OrCAD Layout >> Plus. I'll double check the netlist against the prototype and send off for >> boards probably early next week (or late this week maybe). >> >> So... I'm going to order about 16-20 boards. Now's the time for a real >> headcount on this one. >> >> I'll sell the kit to people on this list for $75. That includes the >> daughtercard (assembled), instructions, a replacement PROM, and the >> associated software (on the daughtercard). I'm going to pay Dave Fish a >> royalty on each card to say "thanks" for getting the copy-protection >> cracked for us. I'm also keeping a cut on these for my time on the menu >> system and all the software patches to make the games play from a universal >> control panel. >> >> If you want one (or more than one) please send me a note to: clay >> >> I don't want to get too many extras, but I don't want to get too few >>either. >> If you've already sent me a note saying you wanted a board(s) please send >> it again-- the first request was just to gauge interest level. >> >> I'll probably sell any spares over in RGVAM for $100 a pop. (For some >> reason it seems like my "tech support" level goes up dramatically when >> "kits" go to people outside of this group of people... ;-) >> >> Oh, Al-- your's is free for the EPROMs and pulling all the programming info >> together. ;-) > >Hi all, > >As you probably all know, I've got plenty of spare CPU boards which I'd like >to >get rid of. At one time I went through them and tested them all, but they've >been moved around so much that I can't guarantee they still work (but they >probably do). > >Box of 10 CPU boards for $50 sound fair? (Misc security chips, mostly Space >Fury). Heck, at the least you'd have 10 Z-80's and 40 2114 RAMs per box; >that's worth something :-) > >Box of 30 XY pair, untested, no ribbon cables, make offer > >Box of 20 speech boards, untested/unpopulated, make offer > >(Might as well get rid of this stuff now before Clay makes a single board >multigame and this stuff becomes entirely obsolete...) > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison >Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 12 08:17:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 08:17:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:16:27 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9711121016.ZM9805@calcite> In-Reply-To: aek (Al Kossow) "Re: Marks G-80 parts..." (Nov 11, 5:29pm) References: <199711120139.UAA02942 > X-Face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Marks G-80 parts... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist On Nov 11, 5:29pm, Al Kossow wrote: > Subject: Re: Marks G-80 parts... > 30 are too many sets for me, too... > > why not break it into smaller lots? I would go for 5 or 6 > sets for $100 or so. Ok, I can go for smaller lots. 5 XY pair (10 boards total), untested, no ribbon cables for $50 + S&H sound fair? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 12 08:30:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 08:29:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 08:31:04 -0800 To: vectorlist From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Major Havoc Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist >Are the quad pokeys on firefox and ROTJ as the one on MH? I have a weird >looking >quad pokey. Instead of the board socket being in the middle, this one is off in >the corner. The 4 chips are all in a row. Hmmmm. Sounds like Atari might have done a couple of board spins for different physical requirements... From my *huge* ;-) sample of about 3 RoJ and FireFox boards they all had the chip-on-board version of the quad Pokey. About the same physical size as a 40 pin dip, four little blobs (chip dies) covered with black epoxy on top. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 12 08:44:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outg