From downin@smarty.smart.net Sun Nov 1 20:46:28 1998 Received: from smarty.smart.net (smarty.smart.net [206.27.242.102]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id UAA03706 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 20:46:27 -0600 (CST) Received: (from downin@localhost) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA24654 for vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 21:46:21 -0500 From: Dave Downin Message-Id: <199811020246.VAA24654@smarty.smart.net> Subject: WG6100 Manual To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (vectorlist) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 21:46:21 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I'm looking for a copy (in pdf format) of the WG6100 manual with the illustrated parts list. I found this somewhere at one point but didn't bookmark it. If someone could send along the URL that would be very helpfull! Thanks! -- Dave Downin (dave@arlo.net) ============================================================================= "Sorry, the world is nuts. It can't be helped" - Arlo Guthrie ArloNet - http://www.arlo.net/ ============================================================================= Any commercial e-mail sent to any of the above accounts will be automatically rejected and subject to a $500 processing fee. From Brendan.Keith Tue Nov 3 09:06:08 1998 Received: from wcgtule107.wiltec.twc.com (wcgtule107.twc.com [151.142.255.107]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id JAA16919 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:06:05 -0600 (CST) Received: by wcgtule107.wiltec.twc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:07:12 -0600 Message-ID: <01603F7CF8C7D111B9B80000F80463F737E8CE > From: "Keith, Brendan" To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: Tech: Cinematronics Monitor Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:07:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Is anyone familiar with common failure modes in a Cinematronics monitor? I have an Armor Attack (and a few other boards to test) and this recently traded monitor will not stay active. It constantly trips the +25V breaker in the power supply. I have disconnected the Keltron HV unit, so it's not that. I measure good voltage on either side of the 7815 before the breaker trips (about 1-2 seconds). The digital cable is disconnected so it's not trying to deflect. I wouldn't expect the DACs or LF13331 (is that just a quad switch, like a 4066) to draw enough current to trip the breaker. Or the op-amps. After closing up shop last night and thinking about it some more I figured maybe one of the deflection transistors could be shorted but the manual says not to run the monitor with them disconnected. Is that because the deflection driver transistors would then try to drive the deflection yoke directly? I have the schematics in front of me, but I'm a little more familiar with the digital domain rather than analog. Is it safe to disconnect the deflection yoke alone? Then the deflection transistor pairs? Thanks to all, in advance. Brendan Keith brendan.keith P.S. Don't suggest a freakin' cap kit! Sheesh! ;) From jwelser Tue Nov 3 09:56:51 1998 Received: from piglet.cc.utexas.edu (jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu [128.83.42.61]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id JAA28564 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:56:50 -0600 (CST) From: jwelser Received: from localhost (jwelser@localhost) by piglet.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/piglet.mc-1.8) with SMTP id JAA00099 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:56:49 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:56:48 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: Re: Tech: Cinematronics Monitor In-Reply-To: <01603F7CF8C7D111B9B80000F80463F737E8CE > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Tue, 3 Nov 1998, Keith, Brendan wrote: > Is anyone familiar with common failure modes in a Cinematronics monitor? > I have an Armor Attack (and a few other boards to test) and this recently > traded monitor will not stay active. It constantly trips the +25V breaker > in > the power supply. > > I have disconnected the Keltron HV unit, so it's not that. I measure good > voltage on either side of the 7815 before the breaker trips (about 1-2 > seconds). > The digital cable is disconnected so it's not trying to deflect. In fact, with the input cable disconnected, its deflecting the beam off the screen -- a sure way to blow the breakers 100% of the time. Most ICs have internal pull-ups of all their inputs to improve their noise immunity, if an input is left floating. With the input cable disconnected, the inputs to the DACs are all "1's", so you're driving the monitor to max. deflection on both axes. > After closing up shop last night and thinking about it some more I figured > maybe one of the deflection transistors could be shorted but the manual says > not to run the monitor with them disconnected. Is that because the > deflection > driver transistors would then try to drive the deflection yoke directly? I > have the schematics > in front of me, but I'm a little more familiar with the digital domain > rather than analog. > > Is it safe to disconnect the deflection yoke alone? Then the deflection > transistor pairs? Why not just test the deflection transistors? And, yes, the deflection transistors are the most common failure with that monitor. Joe From jhendrix Tue Nov 3 10:01:24 1998 Received: from mailhost.quark.com ([206.195.78.3]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id KAA29168 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:01:23 -0600 (CST) Received: from denver.quark.com (denver.quark.com [206.195.71.192]) by mailhost.quark.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA27416 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:01:08 -0700 (MST) Received: by denver.quark.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:58:41 -0700 Message-ID: From: jeff hendrix To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: Tech: Cinematronics Monitor Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:58:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN If I remember right, disconnecting the digital cable will tell the monitor to send the beam to 0,0 which is in the far upper left (or right depending on which way your looking at the monitor). I think the best thing to do is have a working board hooked up to it so it tries to draw vectors on the screen. -----Original Message----- From: Keith, Brendan [mailto:Brendan.Keith ] Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 8:07 AM To: 'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu' Subject: Tech: Cinematronics Monitor Is anyone familiar with common failure modes in a Cinematronics monitor? I have an Armor Attack (and a few other boards to test) and this recently traded monitor will not stay active. It constantly trips the +25V breaker in the power supply. I have disconnected the Keltron HV unit, so it's not that. I measure good voltage on either side of the 7815 before the breaker trips (about 1-2 seconds). The digital cable is disconnected so it's not trying to deflect. I wouldn't expect the DACs or LF13331 (is that just a quad switch, like a 4066) to draw enough current to trip the breaker. Or the op-amps. After closing up shop last night and thinking about it some more I figured maybe one of the deflection transistors could be shorted but the manual says not to run the monitor with them disconnected. Is that because the deflection driver transistors would then try to drive the deflection yoke directly? I have the schematics in front of me, but I'm a little more familiar with the digital domain rather than analog. Is it safe to disconnect the deflection yoke alone? Then the deflection transistor pairs? Thanks to all, in advance. Brendan Keith brendan.keith P.S. Don't suggest a freakin' cap kit! Sheesh! ;) From Brendan.Keith Tue Nov 3 11:57:40 1998 Received: from wcgdene001.itcmedia.com ([207.45.96.249]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id LAA14771 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:57:40 -0600 (CST) Received: by wcgdene001.itcmedia.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:59:17 -0700 Message-ID: <01603F7CF8C7D111B9B80000F80463F737E8D5 > From: "Keith, Brendan" To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: Tech: Cinematronics Monitor Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:59:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > From: > jwelser [SMTP:jwelser ] > > The digital cable is disconnected so it's not trying to deflect. > > In fact, with the input cable disconnected, its deflecting the > beam off the screen -- a sure way to blow the breakers 100% of the > time. > Hmm, I would have thought that there would be some protection against this. Like disconnected being a 'home' condition, or kicking in the spot killer. So the monitor's not as smart as I expected. That's reasonable. > Why not just test the deflection transistors? > And, yes, the deflection transistors are the most common failure > with that monitor. > > Didn't think of it until after I put it away for the night. That'll > be the first > thing to check when I get home from work. Yes, I'm just a hobbiest. When I said 'close up shop' I just meant the garage. There is activity on the digital cable so I know the board is good Things are looking good. Can't wait to get home. Thanks to jwelser, Jeff H and Mark S, and anyone else who chimes in later. > Brendan Keith > brendan.keith > > From jrr Tue Nov 3 12:43:12 1998 Received: from penelope.aktom.com (smtp.aktom.com [207.219.208.2] (may be forged)) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with SMTP id MAA20466 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:43:08 -0600 (CST) Received: from ms01-398.vcr.istar.ca (ms01-398.vcr.istar.ca [137.186.177.144]) by penelope.flippers.com (NTMail 3.03.0012/4c.abyd) with ESMTP id za011439 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:51:52 +0000 Message-ID: <363F4F87.AA5D961B > Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 10:46:31 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: flippers.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en]C-AtHome0404 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Tech: Cinematronics Monitor References: <01603F7CF8C7D111B9B80000F80463F737E8CE > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hi Keith!(And others) The thing to remember about these (and other vector monitors) is they are basically just audio amps with attitude (they want to be in pictures). You can run these with the YOKE unplugged! This will put a no-load situation on the output transistors and you will not smoke any parts when testing. You must NEVER unplug the output transistors on any monitor and then provide power, this will do serious damage to your wallet. Now that you have the yoke unplugged you can 'scope the signal to the yoke and see if the average signal is at zero volts. That is the + and - signals hover evenly relative to the 0 level. This assumes you have a working board. With a no-signal situation, and inputs grounded the output to the yoke should be zero volts. Now, if I had time, I'd go into how to make simple signal inputs to test your monitor, but, now that you have a clue (audio amp) perhaps you can figure out your own. Remember that the input is about 1VPP and these are essentially stereo... Vectorbeam/Cine monitors, well, a switch box that has pullups and other riff-raf comes to mind...play with the LSB's first...get a scope...A/D convertor... John :-#)# Keith, Brendan wrote: > > Is anyone familiar with common failure modes in a Cinematronics monitor? > I have an Armor Attack (and a few other boards to test) and this recently > traded monitor will not stay active. It constantly trips the +25V breaker > in > the power supply. > > I have disconnected the Keltron HV unit, so it's not that. I measure good > voltage on either side of the 7815 before the breaker trips (about 1-2 > seconds). > The digital cable is disconnected so it's not trying to deflect. > > I wouldn't expect the DACs or LF13331 (is that just a quad switch, like a > 4066) > to draw enough current to trip the breaker. Or the op-amps. > > After closing up shop last night and thinking about it some more I figured > maybe one of the deflection transistors could be shorted but the manual says > not to run the monitor with them disconnected. Is that because the > deflection > driver transistors would then try to drive the deflection yoke directly? I > have the schematics > in front of me, but I'm a little more familiar with the digital domain > rather than analog. > > Is it safe to disconnect the deflection yoke alone? Then the deflection > transistor pairs? > > Thanks to all, in advance. > > Brendan Keith > brendan.keith > > P.S. Don't suggest a freakin' cap kit! Sheesh! ;) -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From Burbs1@concentric.net Tue Nov 3 20:34:40 1998 Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id UAA14464 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:34:39 -0600 (CST) Received: from mcfeely.concentric.net (mcfeely [207.155.184.83]) by darius.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/08/04 5.11)) id VAA15116; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:34:38 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Errors-To: Received: from concentric.net (ts002d20.mor-nj.concentric.net [206.173.45.80]) by mcfeely.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id VAA08283; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:34:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <363FBD56.6F5E8F5A@concentric.net> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 21:35:02 -0500 From: Mark E Davidson Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: G08 to WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Im hoping someone can help me and ill try to may this as brief as possible. I bought a Star Trek and had it shipped from CA to New Jersey. In the process the neck of the G-08 snapped leaving me with no monitor :-( I but a request out on RGVAC and Art Mallet said he would sell me one out of a Space Duel. It didn't dawn on me until I opened the box that Atari used a WG an not an Electrohome for their vectors. Is there anyway I can use my Wells-Gardner on my Sega game? -- -=Mark=- http://www.basementarcade.com/ From tonizzo Wed Nov 4 07:54:46 1998 Received: from halon.sybase.com (halon.sybase.com [192.138.151.33]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id HAA29684 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:54:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from smtp1.sybase.com (sybgate.sybase.com [130.214.220.35]) by halon.sybase.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id FAA09381 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 05:53:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from gwwest.sybase.com by smtp1.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.5-030896) id AA04788; Wed, 4 Nov 98 05:54:43 PST Received: by gwwest.sybase.com(Lotus SMTP MTA Internal build v4.6.2 (651.2 6-10-1998)) id 882566B2.004C6708 ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 05:54:31 -0800 X-Lotus-Fromdomain: SYBASENOTES From: "Paul Tonizzo" To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Message-Id: <882566B2.004C658C.00 > Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:02:56 -0500 Subject: Re: G08 to WG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > I bought a Star Trek and had it shipped from CA to New Jersey. In the >process the neck of the G-08 snapped leaving me with no monitor :-( I >but a request out on RGVAC and Art Mallet said he would sell me one out >of a Space Duel. It didn't dawn on me until I opened the box that Atari >used a WG an not an Electrohome for their vectors. Is there anyway I >can use my Wells-Gardner on my Sega game? Wow - major bummer. :'( Yes, you can use it! I am running all the Sega XY games out of my Space Duel cabinet (WG 6100 XY). The draw rate is a little slower so you may see a stray vector or two occasionally but it's definately very playable. The other alternative is to locate a new tube - talk to Mark Jenison - he's looking into it right now. Check out: http://www.spies.com/arcade/conversion/SegaToAtariXYConv for details on the WG->GO-8 use. Paul From jenison Wed Nov 4 09:39:06 1998 Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id JAA22393 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:39:04 -0600 (CST) Received: from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by motgate.mot.com (8.8.5/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id JAA03231 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:39:03 -0600 (CST) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison ) Received: from relay1.cig.mot.com (relay1.cig.mot.com [136.182.15.23]) by mothost.mot.com (8.8.5/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id JAA26415 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:39:02 -0600 (CST) Received: from calcite.cig.mot.com (jenison (8.8.5/SCERG-RELAY-1.11b) with ESMTP id JAA01142 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:33:05 -0600 (CST) Received: (jenison (8.8.5/SCERG-1.12B) id JAA22872 for vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:33:03 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:33:03 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9811040933.ZM22870@calcite> In-Reply-To: "Paul Tonizzo" "Re: G08 to WG" (Nov 4, 9:02am) References: <882566B2.004C658C.00 > X-face: oR?Ne3)HMw-8KhQ[.WK_f(>#V%Uoh6<uZW2%T[G$FZ[$](cd:7rBD)F36`*Ea#ym.|Kw5k;\Zx*CkhL=Tg^mSN:b_D!UEf7C"&f\x7Xxt!#UmwVu|hX6brc8QWO;6+pNL X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: G08 to WG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Nov 4, 9:02am, Paul Tonizzo wrote: > Subject: Re: G08 to WG > > The other alternative is to locate a new tube - talk to Mark Jenison - he's > looking into it > right now. I am?? :-) Anyway, I'm in need of a spare Sega XY tube also. The tube that the Sega XY uses is a 19VLUP22...the same as the WG6100 that you were sent! So, you could swap the tube from the one Art sent you into the G08. You will, however, have to redo the convergence and purity, which can be a pain. The Gregg Woodcock's Atari XY faq explains this procedure, but you can find it in just about any monitor manual. There is a little white piece of plastic on the end of the tube neck that mates with the socket. I'm not sure if the WG and G-08 use the same socket (I don't think so), so you'll either have to modify that piece of plastic, or swap sockets from the neck board (unsolder and resolder the new one in). Of course, then you need a tube for your WG6100 :-) You can still by a replacement tube from Richardson Electronics for $165. I've heard people have used tubes from raster WG monitors, which I think uses the 19VLTP22 tube, which apparently is close enough. I'd probably see if someone wouldn't sell you a dead raster WG monitor for a few bucks...try your local amusement operator. Last but not least, I have a spare Amplifone tube that I was going to try and put on a G08, since my tube is apparently shot. I talked to Rick Schieve, and he said the Amplifone tube will give me a "bowing" effect because the tube is shaped differently (hey, wouldn't this make the WG in my Star Wars look normal? Hmmm...) Which deflection coil should I use with the Amplifone tube, the Amplifone deflection coil or the G-08 deflection coil? I know Clay mentioned that he's cut away the white plastic thing on the end of the tube neck before with a dremel tool, but I found an easier way (well, it worked for me at least). I took some heavy duty paint stripper and put it all over the piece. It began eating away at the white calking that hold the plastic piece in place. With some carefully prying, I was able to pop the piece of plastic right off. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From Brendan.Keith Thu Nov 5 08:54:00 1998 Received: from wcghoue002.wilex.wilcom.com (wcghoue002.wilcom.com [169.206.239.198]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id IAA07056 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:53:59 -0600 (CST) Received: by wcghoue002.wilcom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:55:07 -0600 Message-ID: <01603F7CF8C7D111B9B80000F80463F737E8E2 > From: "Keith, Brendan" To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: Tech: Cinematronics Monitor Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:55:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Follow up: After blowing what must have been a marginal pair of transistors, I put yet another set in and the yoke started chattering away like we all know and love. So I start testing boards and I have an Armor Attack, Star Castle, Star Hawk and another one with the date 1977. Space Wars perhaps? Now a couple of questions. 1. What are the values of the circuit breakers on the power supply? The negative supply breaker was replaced with a fuse holder and you all know how often it likes to pop that breaker. I have a spare 2.5A breaker that seems appropriate. 2. On Cinemu's Armor Attack, setting the diagnostic switch yields a test pattern with the maze outline. When I turn on diag mode on my board it just show an octagon and text. Is this the difference between Cinematronics and Rockola (mine)? 2a. Is the memory map the same between the two brands, allowing me to just swap ROM sets? Brendan Keith brendan.keith From Brian@IUSMail.IUS.Indiana.EDU Thu Nov 5 09:25:04 1998 Received: from ntemail3.IUS.Indiana.Edu (ntemail3.ius.indiana.edu [149.160.30.164]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id JAA16134 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:25:00 -0600 (CST) Received: by ntemail3.ius.indiana.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:22:16 -0500 Message-ID: <836AEDC9D836D211B4720001FA7EC2D2133FD3@ntemail1-tr.ius.indiana.edu> From: "Bowles, Brian" To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: Help with a newly acquired Tempest. Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:24:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hey all, I am new to the vector list and to vector arcade machines. I have three restored raster games, but these vector systems are quite a different matter. The tempest that I have comes up, but the screen (http://www.cs.ius.indiana.edu/AK/Brian/web_docs/P000918.jpg and http://www.cs.ius.indiana.edu/AK/Brian/web_docs/P000919.jpg )resembles lightning more than the tempest screen. Does anyone have any ideas as to what causes this problem and what I might do to fix it? Also this cabinet, ( http://www.cs.ius.indiana.edu/AK/Brian/web_docsP000907.jpg ) is quite different from the ones I played in the arcades. Is this what they refereed to as the cabaret, or is this some kind of retro fit? Thanks for your help! Brian Bowles brian From jwelser Thu Nov 5 09:58:59 1998 Received: from piglet.cc.utexas.edu (jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu [128.83.42.61]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id JAA22349 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:58:59 -0600 (CST) From: jwelser Received: from localhost (jwelser@localhost) by piglet.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/piglet.mc-1.9) with SMTP id JAA16565 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:58:57 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:58:57 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: Re: Help with a newly acquired Tempest. In-Reply-To: <836AEDC9D836D211B4720001FA7EC2D2133FD3@ntemail1-tr.ius.indiana.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Thu, 5 Nov 1998, Bowles, Brian wrote: > Hey all, > > I am new to the vector list and to vector arcade machines. I have three > restored raster games, but these vector systems are quite a different > matter. The tempest that I have comes up, but the screen > (http://www.cs.ius.indiana.edu/AK/Brian/web_docs/P000918.jpg and > http://www.cs.ius.indiana.edu/AK/Brian/web_docs/P000919.jpg )resembles > lightning more than the tempest screen. Does anyone have any ideas as to > what causes this problem and what I might do to fix it? Also this cabinet, > ( http://www.cs.ius.indiana.edu/AK/Brian/web_docsP000907.jpg ) is quite > different from the ones I played in the arcades. Is this what they refereed > to as the cabaret, or is this some kind of retro fit? Thanks for your help! Brian, Yes, that is a cabaret cabinet. You have a problem with the deflection circuitry in your monitor. That's about all I can say, because I've seen the problem before, and most of the time, it is a problem with the deflection amps on the deflection board, but once, I found the problem to be a bad deflection yoke. Try to get ahold of a good deflection board somewhere (you might have to pay a nice chunk of cash for it) and then either: 1) Swapping in the new, good def. board will completely fix the problem or 2) You'll know it's the deflection yoke that is the problem. If it makes you feel any better, I have 2 or 3 deflection boards that I need to fix right now with the same symptoms. Joe From Robot2084 Thu Nov 5 10:01:39 1998 Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id KAA22427 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:01:39 -0600 (CST) From: Robot2084 Received: from Robot2084 by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id KNATa10441 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:59:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <24c0c4b0.3641cb46 > Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:59:02 EST To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Help with a newly acquired Tempest. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 62 Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN In a message dated 98-11-05 10:47:49 EST, you write: << Also this cabinet, ( http://www.cs.ius.indiana.edu/AK/Brian/web_docsP000907.jpg ) is quite different from the ones I played in the arcades. Is this what they refereed to as the cabaret, or is this some kind of retro fit? Thanks for your help! >> You have the caberet. Nice game, but I like the full size UR the best. Some of the best sideart and maybe the coolest cabinet, IMHO. JWC From Tillman@Strahan.org Thu Nov 5 10:12:54 1998 Received: from ndcrelay.mcit.com (ndcrelay.mcit.com [166.37.172.49]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id KAA23049 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:12:53 -0600 (CST) Received: from omta1.mcit.com (omta1.mcit.com [166.37.204.2]) by ndcrelay.mcit.com (8.8.7/) with ESMTP id LAA14547 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:12:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from rii04173b ([166.35.224.43]) by omta1.mcit.com (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP id <19981105161213.DWFK9982@rii04173b> for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:12:13 -0600 Message-ID: <002a01be08d6$c80b9b60$2be023a6 > From: "Tillman Strahan" To: Subject: Re: Help with a newly acquired Tempest. Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:10:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN That's odd. When I go to the site http://www.cs.ius.indiana.edu/AK/Brian/web_docs/P000907.jpg I see a Burgertime in the back of a pickup..... BTW: I just lost all the red on my Space Duel. Any suggestions? (Kinda cool playing with an invisible ship ) Tillman -----Original Message----- From: Robot2084 > To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 10:01 AM Subject: Re: Help with a newly acquired Tempest. >In a message dated 98-11-05 10:47:49 EST, you write: > ><< Also this cabinet, > ( http://www.cs.ius.indiana.edu/AK/Brian/web_docsP000907.jpg ) is quite > different from the ones I played in the arcades. Is this what they refereed > to as the cabaret, or is this some kind of retro fit? Thanks for your help! >>> > > >You have the caberet. Nice game, but I like the full size UR the best. Some >of the best sideart and maybe the coolest cabinet, IMHO. > >JWC > > From batlzone@cyberenet.net Thu Nov 5 10:29:12 1998 Received: from mailbox.alspc (gahost186.genacc-us.com [205.134.131.186]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with SMTP id KAA24365 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:29:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from cyberenet.net (ts63969.genacc-us.com[205.134.129.132])by TS63969(MailMax 2.040) with ESMTP id 0 for batlzone@cyberenet.net; Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:23:40 -0500 EST Message-ID: <3641D105.E1EEA6E5@cyberenet.net> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:23:33 -0500 From: Al Warner Organization: Al Warner, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Help with a newly acquired Tempest. References: <002a01be08d6$c80b9b60$2be023a6 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Tillman Strahan wrote: > That's odd. > > When I go to the site > http://www.cs.ius.indiana.edu/AK/Brian/web_docs/P000907.jpg I see a > Burgertime in the back of a pickup..... Scroll to the right..... -- ==================================================================== -= Al Warner batlzone@cyberenet.net =- -= Owner of "Magic Sword", "AmeriDarts", "Stargate", "MultiPac", =- -= "Frogger", "Battlezone", "Star Wars", "Empire Strikes Back", =- -= "Galaga", "Dig Dug" and "Gyruss" arcade video games and "The =- -= Simpsons" Pinball. Learn how to install a Cap Kit in your video =- -= game's monitor and see some of these games on my web page at: =- -= http://www.cyberenet.net/~batlzone =- ==================================================================== From Tillman@Strahan.org Thu Nov 5 10:47:55 1998 Received: from ndcrelay.mcit.com (ndcrelay.mcit.com [166.37.172.49]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id KAA25702 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:47:53 -0600 (CST) Received: from omta1.mcit.com (omta1.mcit.com [166.37.204.2]) by ndcrelay.mcit.com (8.8.7/) with ESMTP id LAA19318 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:47:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from rii04173b ([166.35.224.43]) by omta1.mcit.com (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP id <19981105164721.ENQP9982@rii04173b> for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:47:21 -0600 Message-ID: <002f01be08db$b0475f00$2be023a6 > From: "Tillman Strahan" To: Subject: Re: Help with a newly acquired Tempest. Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:45:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Ah! Now I feel -stupid- Tillman -----Original Message----- From: Al Warner To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 10:28 AM Subject: Re: Help with a newly acquired Tempest. > > >Tillman Strahan wrote: > >> That's odd. >> >> When I go to the site >> http://www.cs.ius.indiana.edu/AK/Brian/web_docs/P000907.jpg I see a >> Burgertime in the back of a pickup..... > >Scroll to the right..... > >-- > ==================================================================== >-= Al Warner batlzone@cyberenet.net =- >-= Owner of "Magic Sword", "AmeriDarts", "Stargate", "MultiPac", =- >-= "Frogger", "Battlezone", "Star Wars", "Empire Strikes Back", =- >-= "Galaga", "Dig Dug" and "Gyruss" arcade video games and "The =- >-= Simpsons" Pinball. Learn how to install a Cap Kit in your video =- >-= game's monitor and see some of these games on my web page at: =- >-= http://www.cyberenet.net/~batlzone =- > ==================================================================== > > From steve.ozdemir Thu Nov 5 11:17:12 1998 Received: from granite.plpt.com (granite.plpt.com [199.181.238.77]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id LAA29435 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:17:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199811051717.LAA29435@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu> Received: by granite.plpt.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:19:11 -0800 From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: what games use 13" BW G0-5's Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:18:23 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN G'day folks, I ordered one of those green tubes from Al because I have cabaret Asteroids, BZ and a cocktail Omega Race. My Asteroids plays Asteroids Deluxe. Is there any other game that uses the 13" BW G0-5? Steve Ozdemir sso From jwelser Thu Nov 5 11:23:47 1998 Received: from piglet.cc.utexas.edu (jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu [128.83.42.61]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id LAA00576 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:23:46 -0600 (CST) From: jwelser Received: from localhost (jwelser@localhost) by piglet.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/piglet.mc-1.9) with SMTP id LAA06340 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:23:44 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:23:44 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: Re: what games use 13" BW G0-5's In-Reply-To: <199811051717.LAA29435@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Thu, 5 Nov 1998, Ozdemir, Steve wrote: > G'day folks, > > I ordered one of those green tubes from Al because I have cabaret > Asteroids, BZ and a cocktail Omega Race. My Asteroids plays Asteroids > Deluxe. > > Is there any other game that uses the 13" BW G0-5? > I think that's it -- any of the cocktail Atari B/W vector games, I'd guess the cabaret Atari B/W vector games, and the cocktail (and maybe the cabaret) Omega Race. Joe From cstup Thu Nov 5 11:37:14 1998 Received: from rome.ntr.net (ha1.ntr.net [206.112.0.10]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id LAA02818 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:37:13 -0600 (CST) Received: from pobox.com (vc0699ntin.vencor.com [207.15.10.10]) by rome.ntr.net (NTR*NET 2.1.0) with ESMTP id MAA00852 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:37:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3641E248.8BF4CEDB > Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 12:37:12 -0500 From: Corey Stup Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: what games use 13" BW G0-5's References: <199811051717.LAA29435@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > Is there any other game that uses the 13" BW G0-5? My (for sale) caberet Omega Race has the 13" GO-5 in it. From gblee@concentric.net Thu Nov 5 11:48:04 1998 Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id LAA04443 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:48:03 -0600 (CST) Received: from newman.concentric.net (newman [207.155.184.71]) by darius.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/08/04 5.11)) id MAA06281; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:48:01 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Errors-To: Received: from gblee (ts004d20.lap-ca.concentric.net [206.173.170.176]) by newman.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id MAA02300; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:47:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981105094420.007f9240@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: gblee@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:44:20 -0800 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu From: Gaymond Lee Subject: Re: what games use 13" BW G0-5's In-Reply-To: <199811051717.LAA29435@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN At 09:18 AM 11/5/98 -0800, you wrote: >G'day folks, > >I ordered one of those green tubes from Al because I have cabaret >Asteroids, BZ and a cocktail Omega Race. My Asteroids plays Asteroids >Deluxe. > >Is there any other game that uses the 13" BW G0-5? > > Steve Ozdemir > sso According to the flyer, they list the monitor as a 15" Quadrascan. Gaymond Lee From Todd.Miller Thu Nov 5 12:49:26 1998 Received: from ronweb.com (www.ronweb.com [199.244.165.220]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id MAA15358 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:49:23 -0600 (CST) Received: from gateway.ronweb.com ([10.1.10.202]) by gateway.ronweb.com with ESMTP id <40321>; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:38:10 -0500 Received: by CTHQ1E01 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id <46MKDVPS>; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:44:02 -0500 Message-ID: <2FD99C4CD318D111BE0300A0C981D39C6E6433@CTHQ1E01> From: Todd Miller To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: what games use 13" BW G0-5's Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:44:00 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN For a winter project I plan on building a BattleZone cabaret. I too am ordering a tube from Al, but I was wondering if anyone had a 13"/15" G05 monitor sans the tube but with the yoke for sale ? Or would it be possible to use a 19" G05 monitor with a transplanted 13" tube & yoke ? Todd Miller, IT Operations Dept. Ron Weber and Associates 103 E. State Street, Mason City, IA 50401 (515)423-4293/(515)423-4594 FAX http://www.telethinking.com -----Original Message----- From: Ozdemir, Steve [SMTP:steve.ozdemir ] Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 11:18 AM To: 'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu' Subject: what games use 13" BW G0-5's G'day folks, I ordered one of those green tubes from Al because I have cabaret Asteroids, BZ and a cocktail Omega Race. My Asteroids plays Asteroids Deluxe. Is there any other game that uses the 13" BW G0-5? Steve Ozdemir sso From Brendan.Keith Thu Nov 5 13:16:03 1998 Received: from wcgtule107.wiltec.twc.com (wcgtule107.twc.com [151.142.255.107]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id NAA21124 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:15:59 -0600 (CST) Received: by wcgtule107.wiltec.twc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:17:08 -0600 Message-ID: <01603F7CF8C7D111B9B80000F80463F737E8E9 > From: "Keith, Brendan" To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: Tech: Cinematronics Monitor Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:17:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Re: my earlier post I'm trying to get the Armor Attack maze test pattern so that I can trace the image and make an overlay. But if anyone has one for sale or trade, please let me know. Brendan Keith brendan.keith From jenison Thu Nov 5 13:23:40 1998 Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id NAA28156 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:23:37 -0600 (CST) Received: from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate.mot.com (8.8.5/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id NAA26131 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:23:37 -0600 (CST) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender jenison ) Received: from relay1.cig.mot.com (relay1.cig.mot.com [136.182.15.23]) by pobox.mot.com (8.8.5/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id NAA13658 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:23:36 -0600 (CST) Received: from calcite.cig.mot.com (jenison (8.8.5/SCERG-RELAY-1.11b) with ESMTP id NAA29597 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:22:28 -0600 (CST) Received: (jenison (8.8.5/SCERG-1.12B) id NAA03607 for vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:22:26 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:22:26 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9811051322.ZM3605@calcite> In-Reply-To: "Mark Jenison" "Re: G08 to WG" (Nov 4, 9:33am) References: <882566B2.004C658C.00 > <9811040933.ZM22870@calcite> X-face: oR?Ne3)HMw-8KhQ[.WK_f(>#V%Uoh6<uZW2%T[G$FZ[$](cd:7rBD)F36`*Ea#ym.|Kw5k;\Zx*CkhL=Tg^mSN:b_D!UEf7C"&f\x7Xxt!#UmwVu|hX6brc8QWO;6+pNL X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Plastic moulding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Sorry for the off-topic post, but I think this was discussed here a while back, and I wouldn't have to do this if some sort of archives were set up :-) When talking about Major Havok roller controllers, someone mentioned something about "spin casting" or something? I was only half listening, since the topic was Major Havok :-P. Anyway, if someone knows anything about having plastic moulds done, let me know, as I'd like to look into how much it would cost to reproduce a Blaster joystick. BTW, does anyone read my posted questions about using a Sega G-08 w/ Amplifone tube, or are people just ignoring me, or does no one know the answer, or is the question just too stupid? Or all of the above? :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From ClayC Thu Nov 5 13:58:09 1998 Received: from suprahwy.supra.com (suprahwy.supra.com [205.229.114.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id NAA05351 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:58:06 -0600 (CST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by suprahwy.supra.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA20501 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:58:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from supra.com(dogbert.supra.com 10.10.0.21) by suprahwy.supra.com via smap (V2.0) from ; id xma020493; Thu, 5 Nov 98 11:57:52 -0800 Received: from vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com by dogbert.supra.com id aa10244; 5 Nov 98 11:57 PST Received: by vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:57:51 -0800 Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: Plastic moulding Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:57:50 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > When talking about Major Havok roller controllers, someone mentioned > something > about "spin casting" or something? I was only half listening, since > the topic > was Major Havok :-P. > > Anyway, if someone knows anything about having plastic moulds done, > let me > know, as I'd like to look into how much it would cost to reproduce a > Blaster > joystick. > Yeah, that was me. One of our contractors here has been doing a bunch of casting and stuff. (Making replica Storm Trooper suits and equipment.) Spin casting is used to make a hollow-one-piece aluminum casting. The most economical way to make reproductions in small quantity seems to be making a negative mould out of silicone moulding agent and then using a casting resin to make the actual part. The casting resin can be colored, or simply painted. They're tough too-- it's essentially epoxy. Amazing amount of detail is possible-- Mike had a 2nd world-war era tank scope that they resin cast that you could read the lettering from the stamped model-nameplate. Doing plastic injection moulding is expensive (as in probably $30-40K to set up you joystick handle mould) to have a "real" shop do it. Hobbiest-machines are non-trivial as well. Depending on the complexity of the joystick handles (I kinda remember them), a vacuum-formed mould might work too. Tough to get good detail with it (were the handles checkered?), but you can use "real" plastic. > BTW, does anyone read my posted questions about using a Sega G-08 w/ > Amplifone > tube, or are people just ignoring me, or does no one know the answer, > or is the > question just too stupid? Or all of the above? :-) > Afraid I didn't see a question-- were you the one that used the paint-stripper to remove the plastic collar off the neck of the tube? I thought that was a really cool solution... ;-) -Clay From jenison Thu Nov 5 15:05:30 1998 Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [129.188.136.102]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id PAA22553 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:05:29 -0600 (CST) Received: from pobox2.mot.com (pobox2.mot.com [129.188.137.195]) by motgate2.mot.com (8.8.5/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id PAA29651 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:07:25 -0600 (CST) Comments: ( Received on motgate2.mot.com from client pobox2.mot.com, sender jenison ) Received: from relay1.cig.mot.com (relay1.cig.mot.com [136.182.15.23]) by pobox2.mot.com (8.8.5/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id PAA13629 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:04:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from calcite.cig.mot.com (jenison (8.8.5/SCERG-RELAY-1.11b) with ESMTP id PAA06643 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:01:37 -0600 (CST) Received: (jenison (8.8.5/SCERG-1.12B) id PAA04693 for vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:01:34 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:01:34 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9811051501.ZM4691@calcite> In-Reply-To: Clay Cowgill "RE: Plastic moulding" (Nov 5, 11:57am) References: X-face: oR?Ne3)HMw-8KhQ[.WK_f(>#V%Uoh6<uZW2%T[G$FZ[$](cd:7rBD)F36`*Ea#ym.|Kw5k;\Zx*CkhL=Tg^mSN:b_D!UEf7C"&f\x7Xxt!#UmwVu|hX6brc8QWO;6+pNL X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Plastic moulding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Nov 5, 11:57am, Clay Cowgill wrote: > Subject: RE: Plastic moulding > > > Anyway, if someone knows anything about having plastic moulds done, > > let me > > know, as I'd like to look into how much it would cost to reproduce a > > Blaster > > joystick. > > > Yeah, that was me. One of our contractors here has been doing a bunch > of casting and stuff. (Making replica Storm Trooper suits and > equipment.) > > Spin casting is used to make a hollow-one-piece aluminum casting. The > most economical way to make reproductions in small quantity seems to be > making a negative mould out of silicone moulding agent and then using a > casting resin to make the actual part. The casting resin can be > colored, or simply painted. They're tough too-- it's essentially epoxy. > Amazing amount of detail is possible-- Mike had a 2nd world-war era tank > scope that they resin cast that you could read the lettering from the > stamped model-nameplate. That sounds good to me. > Doing plastic injection moulding is expensive (as in probably $30-40K to > set up you joystick handle mould) to have a "real" shop do it. > Hobbiest-machines are non-trivial as well. I was hoping maybe some hobby kit was available. Oh well. > Depending on the complexity of the joystick handles (I kinda remember > them), a vacuum-formed mould might work too. Tough to get good detail > with it (were the handles checkered?), but you can use "real" plastic. Yeah, the handles have checker/dimples on them. > > BTW, does anyone read my posted questions about using a Sega G-08 w/ > > Amplifone > > tube, or are people just ignoring me, or does no one know the answer, > > or is the > > question just too stupid? Or all of the above? :-) > > > Afraid I didn't see a question-- were you the one that used the > paint-stripper to remove the plastic collar off the neck of the tube? I > thought that was a really cool solution... ;-) YMMV, but I like the thought of gooping on some sort of solvent more than taking a cutting tool that close to glass. I'm known for having the philosophy of "Less work for me? Sounds good!" :-) I'd be interested in any form of replicating the joystick handle. I'm sure there are other Blaster owners who would be interested as well. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From ClayC Thu Nov 5 15:35:59 1998 Received: from suprahwy.supra.com (suprahwy.supra.com [205.229.114.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id PAA26335 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:35:58 -0600 (CST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by suprahwy.supra.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA21976 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:35:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from supra.com(dogbert.supra.com 10.10.0.21) by suprahwy.supra.com via smap (V2.0) from ; id xma021974; Thu, 5 Nov 98 13:35:51 -0800 Received: from vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com by dogbert.supra.com id aa16916; 5 Nov 98 13:35 PST Received: by vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:35:49 -0800 Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: Plastic moulding Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:35:48 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN [...casting resin to remanufacture obsolete parts...] > That sounds good to me. > Were Blaster sticks the same as used on Inferno? I might be able to talk Mike into making some moulds if someone has a stick they want to loan me... (The silicone and resins all "spoil" if you don't use them within a day or so, so you have to kind do everything at once.) > > Doing plastic injection moulding is expensive (as in probably > $30-40K to > > set up you joystick handle mould) to have a "real" shop do it. > > Hobbiest-machines are non-trivial as well. > > I was hoping maybe some hobby kit was available. Oh well. > You need a lot of pressure to shoot liquid plastic. And a lot of heat. Those two usually mean a metal mould, which is pretty hard to make unless you're willing to spend some big bucks. We get laser-cintered ("SLA") prototypes done for our cases here. They're cool-- send the CAM company a 3-D design file and about 2 days later you get a "plastic" sample. Problem is you need an accurate 3-D model to start with. They're also kinda brittle and prone to breakdown with heat. We got some made with a different process that was a powered plastic that a laser fused together. Tougher and heat-resistant, but they have a strange rough-texture like sand-paper. I soaked one it epoxy and it's *really* tough now, but you need that 3-D model to start. (And a couple hundred bucks a pop for the sample piece.) > > Depending on the complexity of the joystick handles (I kinda > remember > > them), a vacuum-formed mould might work too. Tough to get good > detail > > with it (were the handles checkered?), but you can use "real" > plastic. > > Yeah, the handles have checker/dimples on them. > Sounds like a resin-casting would be the way to go... For what it's worth, Mike make a vacuum-forming mould off my I,Robot control panel so try making some of those. He hasn't got around to doing anything on it yet though. (Busy making Storm Trooper suits for Halloween...) We were trying to come up with some stuff that would be neat to reproduce for vector games, but there really wasn't much of anything we could think of. Any ideas? Oh, BTW, I've got a whole bunch of adhesive-mylar (like control panels are made with) stickers coming later this week. They're labels for "menu" buttons for MultiPac, the Sega Multigame, and SW/ESB selector switches and some other stuff. Professionally screen printed. I'll probably bundle up a half-dozen or so in little packages and sell them for ~$5 a pack if anyone wants any to complete installation of their kits. Just kinda fun, and it throws a few bucks towards my buddy that's making 'em for me which helps keep him motivated to make other useful stuff. ;-) -Clay -Clay From steve.ozdemir Thu Nov 5 15:46:41 1998 Received: from granite.plpt.com (granite.plpt.com [199.181.238.77]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id PAA28090 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:46:41 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199811052146.PAA28090@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu> Received: by granite.plpt.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:48:43 -0800 From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: mouldings for vector games Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:48:04 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Clay's email: For what it's worth, Mike make a vacuum-forming mould off my I,Robot control panel so try making some of those. He hasn't got around to doing anything on it yet though. (Busy making Storm Trooper suits for Halloween...) We were trying to come up with some stuff that would be neat to reproduce for vector games, but there really wasn't much of anything we could think of. Any ideas? G'day folks, What about the Lunar Lander control panel? The Cinematronics stuff is pretty straight forward, so nothing comes to mind for that batch of games. Also, some of the sitdown Sinistar parts seem like good candidates (like the lasers that invariably get torn off or trashed). I assume a Sinistar seat would be out of the question (especially since there's a procedure to fix them). Steve Ozdemir sso ps - What about Sega XY stuff....again it strikes me as "straight forward"? There is the Cosmic Chasm monitor insert, but I can't see a big market for that. From jenison Thu Nov 5 16:08:28 1998 Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [129.188.136.102]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id QAA01406 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:08:27 -0600 (CST) Received: from pobox2.mot.com (pobox2.mot.com [129.188.137.195]) by motgate2.mot.com (8.8.5/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id QAA29760 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:10:24 -0600 (CST) Comments: ( Received on motgate2.mot.com from client pobox2.mot.com, sender jenison ) Received: from relay1.cig.mot.com (relay1.cig.mot.com [136.182.15.23]) by pobox2.mot.com (8.8.5/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id QAA26297 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:07:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from calcite.cig.mot.com (jenison (8.8.5/SCERG-RELAY-1.11b) with ESMTP id QAA11143 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:07:07 -0600 (CST) Received: (jenison (8.8.5/SCERG-1.12B) id QAA05510 for vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:07:06 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:07:06 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9811051607.ZM5508@calcite> In-Reply-To: Clay Cowgill "RE: Plastic moulding" (Nov 5, 1:35pm) References: X-face: oR?Ne3)HMw-8KhQ[.WK_f(>#V%Uoh6<uZW2%T[G$FZ[$](cd:7rBD)F36`*Ea#ym.|Kw5k;\Zx*CkhL=Tg^mSN:b_D!UEf7C"&f\x7Xxt!#UmwVu|hX6brc8QWO;6+pNL X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Plastic moulding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Nov 5, 1:35pm, Clay Cowgill wrote: > Subject: RE: Plastic moulding > [...casting resin to remanufacture obsolete parts...] > > > That sounds good to me. > > > Were Blaster sticks the same as used on Inferno? I might be able to > talk Mike into making some moulds if someone has a stick they want to > loan me... (The silicone and resins all "spoil" if you don't use them > within a day or so, so you have to kind do everything at once.) Yes, I believe Inferno has the same joysticks. I have located someone who would be willing to loan me their Blaster joystick. I have half of one, so he'd probably want me to prove the process with my half of the joystick and not destroy it (proof of concept). If that worked out, then we could do the whole thing with his. > > I was hoping maybe some hobby kit was available. Oh well. > > > You need a lot of pressure to shoot liquid plastic. And a lot of heat. > Those two usually mean a metal mould, which is pretty hard to make I was thinking more along the lines of like baked clay moulds, where you would make a mould out of clay or something, oven fire it with a kiln, then put some plastic in there that would melt in the mould in the kiln...I don't know...I'm a retard. :-) > > Yeah, the handles have checker/dimples on them. > > > Sounds like a resin-casting would be the way to go... > > We were trying to come up with some stuff that would be neat to > reproduce for vector games, but there really wasn't much of anything we > could think of. Any ideas? Oh yes! I called Mazzco today and they said Williams (which bought Atari) is no longer going to make the Tempest Knobs, and they couldn't locate any other places that had them for sale. I don't know how much they would cost to make, but I've seen them selling for like $10 on the net lately, so if cost would be around there, that would be good. So like I said, I can get a Blaster joystick, and I'm sure someone can come up with a decent Tempest knob. If your friend can help us out, that would be great! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From nicholasx.cook Thu Nov 5 16:47:51 1998 Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com (thalia.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id QAA09050 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:47:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from fmsmsx19.fm.intel.com (fmsmsx19.fm.intel.com [132.233.222.210]) by thalia.fm.intel.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA09056 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 22:47:48 GMT Received: by FMSMSX19 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:47:47 -0800 Message-ID: <4A043A1FE4B2D111AC3F00A0C96B513392D96F@FMSMSX37> From: "Cook, NicholasX" To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: Firefox: Foolish or Fortunate? Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:47:42 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I have a friend that has 3 dead firefoxes. I am wondering if it is worth it to try to piece one back together, or is that LDV player going to make my life a living hell? Thanks, nick From solarfox Thu Nov 5 22:17:32 1998 Received: from mw1.texas.net (mw1.texas.net [206.127.30.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id WAA02104 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 22:17:32 -0600 (CST) From: solarfox Received: from tcnet14-34.austin.texas.net (tcnet14-34.austin.texas.net [209.99.59.34]) by mw1.texas.net (2.4/2.4) with SMTP id WAA21002 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 22:17:30 -0600 (CST) To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: HELP:WG color vector troubleshooting Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 04:18:13 GMT Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Message-ID: <364377fd.16665037@mail.texas.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu id WAA02105 Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:36:22 -0500, you wrote: >I recently picked up a Space Duel with a non-working WG color vector monitor >(rev. P32x boards). Inspection of the monitor revealed R100/R102 completely >cooked and one of the diodes in the bridge rectifier shorted. I decided to >take the shotgun approach and just installed a Get Well Kit,an LV2000 and >all new bridge rectifier diodes, but it seems the problem may still exist. Ohhhh, noooooo... don't _say_ that! You're describing the same problems mine has (except the shorted B-R diode) and I was planning to cure it the same way... :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "An Academic speculated whether a bather is beautiful if there is none in the forest to admire her. He hid in the bushes to find out, which vitiated his premise but made him happy. Moral: Empiricism is more fun than speculation." -- Sam Weber --------------------------------------------------------------------- solarfox (Gary Akins jr.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- From kmahan Thu Nov 5 22:27:23 1998 Received: from xmission.xmission.com (kmahan [198.60.22.2]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id WAA03454 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 22:27:22 -0600 (CST) Received: (from kmahan (8.8.8/8.7.5) id VAA02887 for vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:27:20 -0700 (MST) From: Kurt Mahan Message-Id: <199811060427.VAA02887 > Subject: Re: Firefox: Foolish or Fortunate? To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:27:20 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <4A043A1FE4B2D111AC3F00A0C96B513392D96F@FMSMSX37> from "Cook, NicholasX" at Nov 5, 98 02:47:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > I have a friend that has 3 dead firefoxes. I am wondering if it is worth it > to try to piece one back together, or is that LDV player going to make my > life a living hell? Send some mail off to Doug Jefferys. He's "Mr. Firefox".. Kurt From Brendan.Keith Fri Nov 6 01:01:20 1998 Received: from wcgdene001.itcmedia.com ([207.45.96.249]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id BAA19676 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:01:18 -0600 (CST) Received: by wcgdene001.itcmedia.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:01:17 -0700 Message-ID: <01603F7CF8C7D111B9B80000F80463F737E8EC > From: "Keith, Brendan" To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: TECH: Cine vs. Rockola Armor Attack Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:02:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN OK, I've got a bit of mystery on my hands here. First, this full-size upright Armor Attack I'm fixing is a Rockola. It says it on screen in play mode and the test mode is just an octagon around the word "Rockola" (maybe a date, too). The board is etched with : MFG'D UNDER LICENSE FROM CINEMATRONICS C 1979 On the back it is etched with "REV. K". And it uses 4 2716s. Yes, 2716s, where a real Cinematronics Armor Attack uses 2732s. I have read them and can upload them if there is interest, and JPGs of the boards. I've read the Cinematronics mailing list archive and there is talk about a "old K" and a "modified K". This one has pins 20 and 21 on the EPROMs not tied together so I guess it will be able to use 2732s. It doesn't appear to have been 'modified' but was manufactured this way. The 2732s are getting erased right now and I'll burn in the 16KB Cine code, pop 'em in the board and see what happens. I have another board that looks identical but it has pins 20 and 21 tied to ground. It's currently running Star Castle, although the graphics are a little screwed up. The EPROM contents are the same as those that run on cinemu, not a special Rockola version. I don't mind hacking the board, either by cutting traces or reversibly with that daughterboard at J10. Is there any more authoritative archive or document available about hacking these boards? I could make a multi-game out of one of these two. I also have a Cinematronics Rev. B Space Wars (not working, 2 masked program ROMs) and a 1978 Vectorbeam StarHawk (working, 2 socketed masked program ROMs). ... Welp, I've had this posting open for the last 4 hours. I just installed the Cine AA ROMs and the board booted up alright (single RESET flash) but the vectors are all mashed into a horizontal line at the bottom left of the screen. It's very late, I'll deal with it tomorrow. Brendan Keith brendan.keith From mr.bill@thegrid.net Fri Nov 6 02:04:42 1998 Received: from smtp.thegrid.net (smtp.thegrid.net [209.162.1.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with SMTP id CAA01291 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 02:04:41 -0600 (CST) Received: (qmail 22902 invoked from network); 6 Nov 1998 08:04:40 -0000 Received: from pop.thegrid.net (209.162.1.5) by smtp.thegrid.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 1998 08:04:40 -0000 Received: from thegrid.net (oak-ts1-h2-49-107.ispmodems.net [209.162.49.107]) by pop.thegrid.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA08073 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:04:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3642ADCD.F2D22B44@thegrid.net> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 00:05:33 -0800 From: bill esquivel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Plastic moulding References: <9811051607.ZM5508@calcite> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I have a spare blaster stick, but its really in rough shape. I have a few questions: 1:what are you going to do about the light up thumb and trigger buttons? 2: what are you going to do about the metal plate that keeps the joystick from turning? If your going to remake a knob for tempest, I have an odd one. I may have been for the MH kit, I am not sure. Its about as large as a tron knob, but its all black with a beveled top. I like better as it has more mass than the original tempest and since its larger, its easier to grasp. From djeffery Fri Nov 6 07:03:05 1998 Received: from mpsrv3.multipath.com (mpsrv3.multipath.com [204.92.253.123]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with SMTP id HAA20710 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 07:02:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from fife by mpsrv3.multipath.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id HAA13385; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 07:59:27 -0500 From: djeffery (Doug Jefferys) Received: by fife (SMI-8.6) id IAA03116; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:02:42 -0500 Message-Id: <199811061302.IAA03116@fife> Subject: Re: Firefox: Foolish or Fortunate? To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:02:42 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199811060427.VAA02887 > from "Kurt Mahan" at Nov 5, 98 09:27:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > > I have a friend that has 3 dead firefoxes. I am wondering if it is worth it > > to try to piece one back together, or is that LDV player going to make my > > life a living hell? > > Send some mail off to Doug Jefferys. He's "Mr. Firefox".. Thanx for the endorsement. To answer the question for anyone else reading - yes and yes. The first "yes" is more important than the second one :) ObVector: ...and after having racked up scores in the 55-60K range on the Asteroids Deluxe machine at Union Station in Toronto, I discover they've replaced the unit with a Star Wars upright. Now I've gotta re-learn how to play *that* :-) ObTech: I like bass. I've just picked up a couple of 12" speakers for dirt cheap at the local surplus store, and they're definitely too heavy to be driven by the amps in the Atari vector games. Any suggestions as to how to go about hooking up an Asteroids or an Asteroids Deluxe to a homebuilt external amp? (i.e. can I just run it in parallel with the AUDIO signals from the board, or should I switch out all of the the original hardware when attempting to create small seismic disturbances with the new speakers?) Also, these speakers are unshielded, so using the other one on my color vector multigame cabinet will be difficult without distorting the picture on the monitor. Anyone know of cheap/easy ways of shielding speakers? Later, Doug. -- Douglas W. Jefferys | Star Data Systems | Email: djefferys@stardata.ca | From cmoore Fri Nov 6 08:30:13 1998 Received: from heartlab.com (heartlab.com [209.113.195.248]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with SMTP id IAA29074 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:30:11 -0600 (CST) Received: from milliways [209.113.195.217] by heartlab.com (SMTPD32-4.06) id A7EA14B01C2; Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:30:02 EDT Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981106143150.011d92e4 > X-Sender: cmoore X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:31:50 -0500 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu From: "Christopher V. Moore" Subject: RE: Plastic moulding Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Check out Linday Books at http://www.lindaybks.com. They have lots of books on metal molding and I just bought Vince Gingery's book on home injection plastic molding. Check out http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks/inject/index.html I haven't built it but it looks like it could do things like Tempest knobs and joystick handles. It uses old milk bottles as the plastic. From a quick reading of the book, it looks like it would be fairly cheap to make this gadget and one could crank out quite a few Tempest knobs. I didn't find it on their site but they also used to have a book on casting small plastic and rubber parts. I think that they used plaster of paris molds in that book and two part plastics. Also, as far as that housing goes for the Major Havoc, after looking at it I think that the easiest thing to do would be to break it into four pieces instead of two and then it should be possible to just sand cast it with aluminum or pot metal. -- Christopher V. Moore -- Principal Engineeer Heartlab, Inc. - 101 Airport Rd - Westerly, RI 02891 -- www.heartlab.com Phone: (401) 596-0592 x113 - Fax: (401) 596-8562 - Email: cmoore "Let's get this mother out of here!" -- Last words spoken on the moon by Gene Cernin, Apollo 17. From kmahan Fri Nov 6 09:10:12 1998 Received: from xmission.xmission.com (kmahan [198.60.22.2]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id JAA02485 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:10:10 -0600 (CST) Received: (from kmahan (8.8.8/8.7.5) id IAA12585 for vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:10:07 -0700 (MST) From: Kurt Mahan Message-Id: <199811061510.IAA12585 > Subject: Re: Firefox: Foolish or Fortunate? To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:10:02 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <199811061302.IAA03116@fife> from "Doug Jefferys" at Nov 6, 98 08:02:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > I like bass. I've just picked up a couple of 12" speakers for > dirt cheap at the local surplus store, and they're definitely > too heavy to be driven by the amps in the Atari vector games. > > Any suggestions as to how to go about hooking up an Asteroids or > an Asteroids Deluxe to a homebuilt external amp? (i.e. can I > just run it in parallel with the AUDIO signals from the board, > or should I switch out all of the the original hardware when > attempting to create small seismic disturbances with the new > speakers?) Go to Radio Shack and get their "Car Stereo Line-Out Converter" cat number 12-1338. This will convert the audio outs (post atari amp) back into a line-level you can feed into you amp. I use this on Tempest, Space Duel, and Star Wars to provide a more realistic experience.. Kurt From jenison Fri Nov 6 09:19:40 1998 Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [129.188.136.102]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id JAA08190 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:19:39 -0600 (CST) Received: from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by motgate2.mot.com (8.8.5/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id JAA10829 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:21:37 -0600 (CST) Comments: ( Received on motgate2.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison ) Received: from relay1.cig.mot.com (relay1.cig.mot.com [136.182.15.23]) by mothost.mot.com (8.8.5/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id JAA11725 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:19:38 -0600 (CST) Received: from calcite.cig.mot.com (jenison (8.8.5/SCERG-RELAY-1.11b) with ESMTP id JAA18321 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:14:09 -0600 (CST) Received: (jenison (8.8.5/SCERG-1.12B) id JAA15391 for vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:14:08 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:14:08 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9811060914.ZM15389@calcite> In-Reply-To: bill esquivel "Re: Plastic moulding" (Nov 6, 12:05am) References: <9811051607.ZM5508@calcite> <3642ADCD.F2D22B44@thegrid.net> X-face: oR?Ne3)HMw-8KhQ[.WK_f(>#V%Uoh6<uZW2%T[G$FZ[$](cd:7rBD)F36`*Ea#ym.|Kw5k;\Zx*CkhL=Tg^mSN:b_D!UEf7C"&f\x7Xxt!#UmwVu|hX6brc8QWO;6+pNL X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Plastic moulding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Nov 6, 12:05am, bill esquivel wrote: > Subject: Re: Plastic moulding > I have a spare blaster stick, but its really in rough shape. I have a few > questions: > 1:what are you going to do about the light up thumb and trigger buttons? I was going to see if I could find some existing hardware for the trigger. The button would be a little more difficult; when I get the lended joystick, I'll look into what's all involved with the smaller pieces > 2: what are you going to do about the metal plate that keeps the joystick from > turning? My Blaster still has this piece; I'm just talking about getting the plastic joystick handle (left and right pieces) remade. I can't think of anything else vector related other than Tempest knobs. On topic however, I have an ESB yoke sticker. If anyone wants to reproduce it, scan it, archive it, whatever, let me know by today. Otherwise, I'm going to apply it to the spare yoke I have. Also, I'm going to be posting Space Fury sound boards for sale on rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace today, so I thought I'd let you guys know so you can get a head start. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From joel-r Fri Nov 6 10:20:22 1998 Received: from atlrel2.hp.com (atlrel2.hp.com [156.153.255.202]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id KAA17753 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:20:20 -0600 (CST) Received: from hpanr0.an.hp.com (hpanr0.an.hp.com [15.4.147.21]) by atlrel2.hp.com (8.8.6/8.8.5tis) with SMTP id LAA05072 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:20:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from hpanzzaw.an.hp.com by hpanr0.an.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.8/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA21700; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:20:09 -0500 Message-Id: <36432216.8122748E > Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 11:21:42 -0500 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett Packard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Asteroids to homebuild amp References: <199811061302.IAA03116@fife> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > > Any suggestions as to how to go about hooking up an Asteroids or > an Asteroids Deluxe to a homebuilt external amp? (i.e. can I > just run it in parallel with the AUDIO signals from the board, > or should I switch out all of the the original hardware when > attempting to create small seismic disturbances with the new > speakers?) Doug, The answer to your question really depends on how good your homebuilt amplifier is. If it is a very clean amplifier and has a high tolerance for non line level signals, then your amp will work great if you hook it up directly to your Asteroids' speaker wires. If your amp is really picky, then you'll be forced to either feed the audio signals from the board directly, or adjust the volume on the regulator board so as to match the line levels expected by your amp. I have done all of the above in the past few years, and found that certainly the best way to go, is to bypass Atari's amplifier and go directly to my own. You get much cleaner sound (in my opinion anyway!) by avoiding a second stage amplification of speaker level outputs. I have used a pair of amplified speakers, a set of Sony SRS-88PC, and a set of Yamaha YS-15 for my purposes. These amps are extremely tolerant of high amplitude input signals and will work just fine even with speaker level inputs. Joel- From jenison Fri Nov 6 10:28:50 1998 Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id KAA19334 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:28:48 -0600 (CST) Received: from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by ftpbox.mot.com (8.8.5/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id KAA12901 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:28:47 -0600 (CST) Comments: ( Received on ftpbox.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison ) Received: from relay1.cig.mot.com (relay1.cig.mot.com [136.182.15.23]) by mothost.mot.com (8.8.5/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id KAA17613 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:28:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from calcite.cig.mot.com (jenison (8.8.5/SCERG-RELAY-1.11b) with ESMTP id KAA23628 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:24:25 -0600 (CST) Received: (jenison (8.8.5/SCERG-1.12B) id KAA16487 for vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:24:24 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:24:24 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9811061024.ZM16485@calcite> In-Reply-To: Kurt Mahan "Re: Firefox: Foolish or Fortunate?" (Nov 6, 8:10am) References: <199811061510.IAA12585 > X-face: oR?Ne3)HMw-8KhQ[.WK_f(>#V%Uoh6<uZW2%T[G$FZ[$](cd:7rBD)F36`*Ea#ym.|Kw5k;\Zx*CkhL=Tg^mSN:b_D!UEf7C"&f\x7Xxt!#UmwVu|hX6brc8QWO;6+pNL X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Firefox: Foolish or Fortunate? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Nov 6, 8:10am, Kurt Mahan wrote: > Subject: Re: Firefox: Foolish or Fortunate? > > Go to Radio Shack and get their "Car Stereo Line-Out Converter" cat > number 12-1338. This will convert the audio outs (post atari amp) > back into a line-level you can feed into you amp. I use this on > Tempest, Space Duel, and Star Wars to provide a more realistic > experience.. A "more realistic experience"? You mean you've actually flown down the Death Star trench so you know what the video game should sound like? ;-> (Sorry, I thought the use of "realistic" here was funny :-) I'll shut up now.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From aek Fri Nov 6 11:49:40 1998 Received: from spies.com (root@[206.67.152.210]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with SMTP id LAA04714 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:49:39 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (300 bytes) by spies.com via send-mail with P:stdio/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp (sender: ) (ident using unix) id for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:49:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #18 built 1998-Oct-15) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:49:53 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: TECH: Cine vs. Rockola Armor Attack Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN "I have read them and can upload them if there is interest, and JPGs of the boards." I'd be interested in looking at them. From jrr Fri Nov 6 12:09:38 1998 Received: from penelope.aktom.com (smtp.aktom.com [207.219.208.2] (may be forged)) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with SMTP id MAA08314 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:09:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from ms01-444.vcr.istar.ca (ms01-444.vcr.istar.ca [137.186.177.190]) by penelope.flippers.com (NTMail 3.03.0012/4c.abyd) with ESMTP id ma011504 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:16:30 +0000 Message-ID: <36433BEF.8CC17F9E > Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 10:11:59 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: flippers.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en]C-AtHome0404 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Plastic moulding References: <9811051607.ZM5508@calcite> <3642ADCD.F2D22B44@thegrid.net> <9811060914.ZM15389@calcite> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Does anyone have a picture of these handles? I might have some in my junk boxes. Just 1,000 sq. ft of junk in piles (ask Al Kossow) so... John :-#)# Mark Jenison wrote: > > On Nov 6, 12:05am, bill esquivel wrote: > > Subject: Re: Plastic moulding > > I have a spare blaster stick, but its really in rough shape. I have a few > > questions: > > 1:what are you going to do about the light up thumb and trigger buttons? > > I was going to see if I could find some existing hardware for the trigger. The > button would be a little more difficult; when I get the lended joystick, I'll > look into what's all involved with the smaller pieces > > > 2: what are you going to do about the metal plate that keeps the joystick > from > > turning? > > My Blaster still has this piece; I'm just talking about getting the plastic > joystick handle (left and right pieces) remade. > > I can't think of anything else vector related other than Tempest knobs. > > On topic however, I have an ESB yoke sticker. If anyone wants to reproduce it, > scan it, archive it, whatever, let me know by today. Otherwise, I'm going to > apply it to the spare yoke I have. > > Also, I'm going to be posting Space Fury sound boards for sale on > rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace today, so I thought I'd let you guys know so > you can get a head start. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison > Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From jrr Fri Nov 6 12:32:52 1998 Received: from penelope.aktom.com (smtp.aktom.com [207.219.208.2] (may be forged)) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with SMTP id MAA08315 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:09:37 -0600 (CST) Received: from ms01-444.vcr.istar.ca (ms01-444.vcr.istar.ca [137.186.177.190]) by penelope.flippers.com (NTMail 3.03.0012/4c.abyd) with ESMTP id la011503 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:14:41 +0000 Message-ID: <36433B7E.5B8137F1 > Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 10:10:06 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: flippers.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en]C-AtHome0404 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Firefox: Foolish or Fortunate? References: <199811061302.IAA03116@fife> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I know this is drifting off topic, but I have some NOS laser tubes for these LDV1000 players, willing to trade one for DL disc (Dragon's Lair) Sorry, now back to the usuall material. Did anyone express interest in my idea for testing XY monitors by treating htem as basically audio amps? I seemed to have lost some mail, or did it get out at all? John :-#?# Doug Jefferys wrote: > > > > I have a friend that has 3 dead firefoxes. I am wondering if it is worth it > > > to try to piece one back together, or is that LDV player going to make my > > > life a living hell? > > > > Send some mail off to Doug Jefferys. He's "Mr. Firefox".. > > Thanx for the endorsement. To answer the question for anyone > else reading - yes and yes. The first "yes" is more important > than the second one :) > > ObVector: > > ...and after having racked up scores in the 55-60K range on the > Asteroids Deluxe machine at Union Station in Toronto, I discover > they've replaced the unit with a Star Wars upright. Now I've > gotta re-learn how to play *that* :-) > > ObTech: > > I like bass. I've just picked up a couple of 12" speakers for > dirt cheap at the local surplus store, and they're definitely > too heavy to be driven by the amps in the Atari vector games. > > Any suggestions as to how to go about hooking up an Asteroids or > an Asteroids Deluxe to a homebuilt external amp? (i.e. can I > just run it in parallel with the AUDIO signals from the board, > or should I switch out all of the the original hardware when > attempting to create small seismic disturbances with the new > speakers?) > > Also, these speakers are unshielded, so using the other one on my > color vector multigame cabinet will be difficult without distorting > the picture on the monitor. Anyone know of cheap/easy ways of > shielding speakers? > > Later, > Doug. > > -- > Douglas W. Jefferys | > Star Data Systems | > Email: djefferys@stardata.ca | -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From ClayC Fri Nov 6 12:46:33 1998 Received: from suprahwy.supra.com (suprahwy.supra.com [205.229.114.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id MAA11937 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:46:32 -0600 (CST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by suprahwy.supra.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA05526 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:46:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from supra.com(dogbert.supra.com 10.10.0.21) by suprahwy.supra.com via smap (V2.0) from ; id xma005522; Fri, 6 Nov 98 10:46:08 -0800 Received: from vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com by dogbert.supra.com id aa13709; 6 Nov 98 10:46 PST Received: by vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:46:06 -0800 Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: Plastic moulding Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:46:06 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > I haven't built it but it looks like it could do things like Tempest > knobs > and joystick handles. It uses old milk bottles as the plastic. From > a > quick reading of the book, it looks like it would be fairly cheap to > make > this gadget and one could crank out quite a few Tempest knobs. > Ehhhhh... Clay is skeptical. ;-) Since the Tempest knob is solid I think you'd do well (with a LOT less work) to just cast it in resin. I don't think a hobbiest machine could do a joystick handle. Probably something like a Happ "ultimate" joystick type "bat", but nothing like the Blaster clam-shell case. I could be wrong... (You'll notice that they're using a machined aluminum mould for the more complex round-thing... If someone has a good quality 3D CNC machine they want to donate time on to make a mould... ;-) > Also, as far as that housing goes for the Major Havoc, after looking > at it > I think that the easiest thing to do would be to break it into four > pieces > instead of two and then it should be possible to just sand cast it > with > aluminum or pot metal. > I'm trying to picture this... It's less complex than the I,Robot joystick panel, no? Is it metal or plastic? If it's plastic I bet Atari did it by vacuum forming. For what it's worth, Mike thinks he could have a metal injection mould made for about $500 for a Blaster Joystick handle... He also thinks that a resin-cast clam shell type mould would be relatively easy. Powdered metal can be added to resin to increase tensile strength too if that's a concern. It's pretty tough stuff though... -Clay From ClayC Fri Nov 6 12:51:08 1998 Received: from suprahwy.supra.com (suprahwy.supra.com [205.229.114.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id MAA12282 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:51:07 -0600 (CST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by suprahwy.supra.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA05590 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:51:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from supra.com(dogbert.supra.com 10.10.0.21) by suprahwy.supra.com via smap (V2.0) from ; id xma005588; Fri, 6 Nov 98 10:50:48 -0800 Received: from vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com by dogbert.supra.com id aa14040; 6 Nov 98 10:50 PST Received: by vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:50:46 -0800 Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: Plastic moulding Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:50:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > I was going to see if I could find some existing hardware for the > trigger. The > button would be a little more difficult; when I get the lended > joystick, I'll > look into what's all involved with the smaller pieces > The trigger and button pieces are reproducible by casting as well. Pigment can be added to the resin to make solid colors or semi-translucent like the thumb button. Might want to change some internals to make is use easy-to-get microswitches. Not 100% familiar with the design... > My Blaster still has this piece; I'm just talking about getting the > plastic > joystick handle (left and right pieces) remade. > Good question. I suppose they could be machined... > I can't think of anything else vector related other than Tempest > knobs. > > On topic however, I have an ESB yoke sticker. If anyone wants to > reproduce it, > scan it, archive it, whatever, let me know by today. Otherwise, I'm > going to > apply it to the spare yoke I have. > Ooooh. That would be good to get a good high-res scan of before you put it on... I can do it at probably 600 DPI optical if no-one else has better equipment... -Clay From jenison Fri Nov 6 13:34:19 1998 Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id NAA23839 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:34:18 -0600 (CST) Received: from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by ftpbox.mot.com (8.8.5/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id NAA23884 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:34:17 -0600 (CST) Comments: ( Received on ftpbox.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender jenison ) Received: from relay1.cig.mot.com (relay1.cig.mot.com [136.182.15.23]) by pobox.mot.com (8.8.5/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id NAA06808 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:34:16 -0600 (CST) Received: from calcite.cig.mot.com (jenison (8.8.5/SCERG-RELAY-1.11b) with ESMTP id NAA06774 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:31:47 -0600 (CST) Received: (jenison (8.8.5/SCERG-1.12B) id NAA18579 for vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:31:47 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:31:47 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9811061331.ZM18577@calcite> In-Reply-To: Clay Cowgill "RE: Plastic moulding" (Nov 6, 10:46am) References: X-face: oR?Ne3)HMw-8KhQ[.WK_f(>#V%Uoh6<uZW2%T[G$FZ[$](cd:7rBD)F36`*Ea#ym.|Kw5k;\Zx*CkhL=Tg^mSN:b_D!UEf7C"&f\x7Xxt!#UmwVu|hX6brc8QWO;6+pNL X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Plastic moulding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Nov 6, 10:46am, Clay Cowgill wrote: > Subject: RE: Plastic moulding > > For what it's worth, Mike thinks he could have a metal injection mould > made for about $500 for a Blaster Joystick handle... He also thinks > that a resin-cast clam shell type mould would be relatively easy. > Powdered metal can be added to resin to increase tensile strength too if > that's a concern. It's pretty tough stuff though... Uh, now all I need is 50 people who want to chip in $10 a piece ;-). Or 10 people for $50 a piece :-). Ok...I guess I need to do research to see exactly how many people would be interested in getting these. What about an estimate on Tempest knobs? I'll put a "who would be intersested in new Blaster joysticks" post on the newsgroup. Thanks for looking into this, Clay! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From Brendan.Keith Fri Nov 6 13:45:04 1998 Received: from wcgtule107.wiltec.twc.com (wcgtule107.twc.com [151.142.255.107]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id NAA24549 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:45:01 -0600 (CST) Received: by wcgtule107.wiltec.twc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:46:06 -0600 Message-ID: <01603F7CF8C7D111B9B80000F80463F737E8ED > From: "Keith, Brendan" To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: XY as Audio ( was Firefox) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:46:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > From: John Robertson[SMTP:jrr ] > > Did anyone express interest in my idea for testing XY monitors by > treating htem as basically audio amps? I seemed to have lost some mail, > or did it get out at all? > Oh yeah, I was reading closely since I posed the question about my Cine monitor. I've always considered them to be audio amps and the next time one of my vector monitors dies in a blaze of glory I'll try using one of my spare car amps. A while back, Art was asking for a portable vector tester and I suggested recording some tones on to a cassette tape then feeding that, via Walkman, to the monitor. That's kind of the reverse; testing vector deflection with audio tools. This building block approach suggests to me that if Cine monitors become (even more) scarce, someone will save this breed if they come up with a small board with a couple of DACs and the switcher and hook it to a complete Asteroids monitor, or to an audio amp and yoke. HV provided as a separate 'block'. You've already got the hack for that worked out, John. Brendan Keith brendan.keith From kmahan Fri Nov 6 14:50:14 1998 Received: from xmission.xmission.com (kmahan [198.60.22.2]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id OAA01027 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:50:13 -0600 (CST) Received: (from kmahan (8.8.8/8.7.5) id NAA24187 for vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:50:07 -0700 (MST) From: Kurt Mahan Message-Id: <199811062050.NAA24187 > Subject: Re: Firefox: Foolish or Fortunate? To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:50:00 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <9811061024.ZM16485@calcite> from "Mark Jenison" at Nov 6, 98 10:24:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > > On Nov 6, 8:10am, Kurt Mahan wrote: > > Subject: Re: Firefox: Foolish or Fortunate? > > > > Go to Radio Shack and get their "Car Stereo Line-Out Converter" cat > > number 12-1338. This will convert the audio outs (post atari amp) > > back into a line-level you can feed into you amp. I use this on > > Tempest, Space Duel, and Star Wars to provide a more realistic > > experience.. > > A "more realistic experience"? You mean you've actually flown down the Death > Star trench so you know what the video game should sound like? ;-> Drive down I-15 (ObNonUtah: main highway that has been trashed for massive reconstruction -- 2 lanes each way, massive concrete barricades on either side) next to a truck pulling a triple. Luke had it easy. Kurt From Dangerwil Fri Nov 6 15:21:03 1998 Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id PAA05247 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 15:21:02 -0600 (CST) From: Dangerwil Received: from Dangerwil by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id KKQSa02316 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:20:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8027cbc3.3643680c > Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:20:12 EST To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: XY as Audio ( was Firefox) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN In a message dated 98-11-06 14:57:22 EST, you write: << recording some tones on to a cassette tape then feeding that, via Walkman, to the monitor. >> How exactly would I go about constructing the input circuit to see line level audio as a waveform on a Asteroids monitor? I have a 13 b/w monitor that I have wanted to add to my stereo rack. I think it would be pretty wild to be able to watch the audio. What does the Z input run off? Thanks, Bill From Brendan.Keith Fri Nov 6 15:46:32 1998 Received: from wcghoue002.wilex.wilcom.com (wcghoue002.wilcom.com [169.206.239.198]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id PAA07853 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 15:46:29 -0600 (CST) Received: by wcghoue002.wilcom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 15:47:38 -0600 Message-ID: <01603F7CF8C7D111B9B80000F80463F737E8EF > From: "Keith, Brendan" To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: XY as Audio Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 15:47:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > From: Dangerwil ] > > How exactly would I go about constructing the input circuit to see line > level audio as a waveform on a Asteroids monitor? > > I have a 13 b/w monitor that I have wanted to add to my stereo rack. I > think it would be pretty wild to be able to watch the audio. What does > the Z > input run off? > > From memory, I believe the Z signal varies between 4 and 10 VDC. > Maybe I'm way off but the idea is to just wire up a pot and this becomes > your brightness control. Wire the stereo left output to X input, right to > Y > and set the volume to a 'pretty' image. > > Brendan Keith > brendan.keith > > From twisnion Fri Nov 6 16:03:38 1998 Received: from smtp.enteract.com (thor.enteract.com [207.229.143.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with SMTP id QAA09299 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:03:37 -0600 (CST) Received: (qmail 9176 invoked from network); 6 Nov 1998 22:03:35 -0000 Received: from pm3-3-20.chi-focal.enteract.com (HELO tomw) (207.229.149.225) by thor.enteract.com with SMTP; 6 Nov 1998 22:03:35 -0000 Message-ID: <001501be09d9$63a40780$1370bfc7@tomw> Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu From: "TomW" To: Subject: Re: Plastic moulding Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:01:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I have cast several things at home with alumilite (sp?) and a 3M rubber molding compound that does not require vulcanization (sp?) to cure. I have the info at home, its used in the hobby industry for models etc. I have made solid, juke box buttons, trigger buttons for MadPlanets handles etc. You can drill and tap this stuff. A solid tempest spinner with a drilled/tapped hole for a set screw would be a pretty easy task for runs up to 50 or so. Heck, I cast 150 watermelon seeds for my wifes watermelon quilt (don't ask, just accept) I used 6 real seeds, made a 1 piece mould and then poured them 6 at a time, then drilled holes for the thread to hold them to the quilt. We've had it for 3 years, and with washing etc, the seeds never broke or discolored. The casting material is also available in clear, and you can tint it for cool colored transparent 'stuff'. There are two companies with this stuff. alumilite and I believe the other is CastAMould, I'll check if anyone is interested. I've also got a ton of lit on casting somewhere..... TomW From cmoore Fri Nov 6 16:04:33 1998 Received: from heartlab.com (heartlab.com [209.113.195.248]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with SMTP id QAA09368 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:04:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from milliways [209.113.195.217] by heartlab.com (SMTPD32-4.06) id A2674F019C; Fri, 06 Nov 1998 17:04:23 EDT Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19981106220604.00c4d7f8 > X-Sender: cmoore X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 17:06:04 -0500 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu From: "Christopher V. Moore" Subject: RE: (Major Havoc Roller Housing) Was: Plastic moulding Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN >I'm trying to picture this... It's less complex than the I,Robot >joystick panel, no? Is it metal or plastic? If it's plastic I bet >Atari did it by vacuum forming. > > The roller housing is the same plastic as the midi track ball. The control panel itself is bent sheet metal and it is much less complex than the I,Robot panel. It is flat across the top. I was referring to the roller housing not the panel. -Chris -- Christopher V. Moore -- Principal Engineeer Heartlab, Inc. - 101 Airport Rd - Westerly, RI 02891 -- www.heartlab.com Phone: (401) 596-0592 x113 - Fax: (401) 596-8562 - Email: cmoore "Let's get this mother out of here!" -- Last words spoken on the moon by Gene Cernin, Apollo 17. From ClayC Fri Nov 6 18:42:56 1998 Received: from suprahwy.supra.com (suprahwy.supra.com [205.229.114.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id SAA02725 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:42:54 -0600 (CST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by suprahwy.supra.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA10376 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:42:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from supra.com(dogbert.supra.com 10.10.0.21) by suprahwy.supra.com via smap (V2.0) from ; id xma010374; Fri, 6 Nov 98 16:42:48 -0800 Received: from vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com by dogbert.supra.com id aa07378; 6 Nov 98 16:42 PST Received: by vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:42:47 -0800 Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: XY as Audio Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:42:38 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > > From memory, I believe the Z signal varies between 4 and 10 VDC. > > Maybe I'm way off but the idea is to just wire up a pot and this > becomes > > your brightness control. Wire the stereo left output to X input, > right to > > Y > > and set the volume to a 'pretty' image. > Actually I think the max input on the Z axis is around +5V or so. Probably be a little happier under 5V. (I could be confusing color inputs with the B/W though.) Seems to me if you'd just want to make the thing look like a giant o-scope you could use a function generator set to a sawtooth waveform with about 12-14V P-P AC voltage on the X-axis input you could run an audio input to the Y-axis through an opamp to give about 10-12V P-P AC V. Might look interesting to put X on the Left channel and Y on the Right channel as long as your music has lots of stereo activity and separation. If it's mono or something you'd probably just get a diagonal line... -Clay From jwelser Sat Nov 7 22:11:09 1998 Received: from piglet.cc.utexas.edu (jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu [128.83.42.61]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id WAA05843 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 22:11:08 -0600 (CST) From: jwelser Received: from localhost (jwelser@localhost) by piglet.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/piglet.mc-1.9) with SMTP id WAA06997 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 22:11:07 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 22:11:06 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: "'vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: RE: XY as Audio In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Dumb question, and someone might've suggested this already (I haven't been following this too closely) but why not, instead of coming up with an audio signal to create some predictable video signal, why not just use the deflection board/monitor chassis as an audio amp (which is essentially what it is) and listen to the outputs. If it's working properly, you should get out what you put in, and you should be able to recognize it. The only trick is getting the right level for the input, and then you'd need some sort of differential to single-ended converter, because most speakers want single-ended inputs, while the outputs to the yoke are differential. I can see some board that plugs into the output to the yoke, which just has a diff -> single ended converter (a couple of op-amps and resistors -- our apps. guys put them on our eval. boards all the time at Crystal.. errr, I mean Cirrus Logic -- Austin :) ) and a speaker. It should actually be pretty easy, and should work -- unless I'm missing something. Of course, it doesn't test the HV, neck board, etc, but it might be a real nice way to test deflection boards/chassis. Joe From jrr Sun Nov 8 23:49:18 1998 Received: from penelope.aktom.com (smtp.aktom.com [207.219.208.2] (may be forged)) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with SMTP id XAA29365 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:48:45 -0600 (CST) Received: from cr689357-a.crdva1.bc.wave.home.com (cr689357-a.crdva1.bc.wave.home.com [24.113.14.85]) by penelope.flippers.com (NTMail 3.03.0012/4c.abyd) with ESMTP id ja011527 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 21:57:22 +0000 Message-ID: <36468327.80474364 > Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 21:52:39 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: flippers.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en]C-AtHome0404 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: XY as Audio References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hmm the problem would be the same as is currently happening, except you would probably blow up your speakers if the outputs are bad... The idea here is to run the XY amps unloaded so as the output transistors don't croak if the drive is bad. Perhaps a resistor, say 100 ohms might be enough of a load to test. I'm trying to find a simple way to power the monitors (I have about six or so) without having to have a running game board, nor do I want to toast the outputs by having hte yokes connected. Soon this will be happening. Is anyone interested in tested working 19" XY's? Somewhere around $250-$300US... May have my HV hack... Am also chatting with a TV parts wholeseller about flybacks, and we are looking for a cheap flyback that puts out the voltages needed, and just hardwire the !@!%$!% thing into a chassis. Then adjust the frequency down to the 15,XXX (can't remember XXX) Hz so the flyback is happy. This is not much different than my hack, but might be tidier if it can be installed in the regular HV cage. Anyone have some time that wants to look into this with me? That lives near Vancouver? That can handle a soldering iron???? John :-#)# jwelser wrote: > > Dumb question, and someone might've suggested this already > (I haven't been following this too closely) but why not, instead > of coming up with an audio signal to create some predictable video > signal, why not just use the deflection board/monitor chassis as > an audio amp (which is essentially what it is) and listen to the > outputs. If it's working properly, you should get out what you > put in, and you should be able to recognize it. > > The only trick is getting the right level for the input, > and then you'd need some sort of differential to single-ended > converter, because most speakers want single-ended inputs, while > the outputs to the yoke are differential. I can see some board > that plugs into the output to the yoke, which just has a diff -> > single ended converter (a couple of op-amps and resistors -- our > apps. guys put them on our eval. boards all the time at Crystal.. > errr, I mean Cirrus Logic -- Austin :) ) and a speaker. It should > actually be pretty easy, and should work -- unless I'm missing > something. > > Of course, it doesn't test the HV, neck board, etc, but > it might be a real nice way to test deflection boards/chassis. > > Joe -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From sswazey Mon Nov 9 03:17:37 1998 Received: from frobozz.qualcomm.com (frobozz.qualcomm.com [129.46.174.26]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id DAA18477 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 03:17:35 -0600 (CST) Received: from wildman.qualcomm.com (wildman.qualcomm.com [129.46.92.152]) by frobozz.qualcomm.com (8.8.5/1.4/8.7.2/1.14) with SMTP id BAA29813; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 01:17:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3646B30C.6BE9 > Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 01:17:00 -0800 From: Scott Swazey Reply-To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Organization: Qualcomm Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu CC: sswazey Subject: Re: XY as Audio References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN John, Actually, XY deflection uses transconductance amps (V in I out). So first off, you want to use a short as a load. If you use a 100 ohm resistor, the amp will just rail the output because it can't pump enough current through the load. If the output is railed, you can't really tell if the XY amp is working. By replacing the yoke with a short, the output should sit at about zero volts. Ok... I've got a simple way to debug XY deflection boards, however I haven't got a chance to re-write it for WellsGardner XY monitor. I'll try and convert it from memory... How it works: Using a current limited +/- 15V bench power supply, two 1K resistors, and a short for a load, it is possible to re-bias the XY amps to run at 15V. Since the power supply is current limited (to say 1.5A), nothing will "blow-up" before you have time to turn it off. With the HV supply disconnected, X,Y,R,G,B inputs open, the yoke windings replaced by two shorts, and the two 1K resistors installed (on P314 R604 and R606), you can measure the bias currents, and various voltages in the amp to verify that everything is working, or find the stuff that isn't. Y channel -- Disconnect output transistors from X channel. Install a 1K resistor across R604 and a sceond 1K across R606. Short J701 pins 1 and two together. Connect J100 pins 13,14,15 to (+15V,gnd,-15V) of the bench supply (Note: the supply MUST be current limited to 1.5A) Apply +/-15V power. (If the supply current limits, unplug the ouput transistors, and check Q603 and Q604 for shorts). Don't reconnect until the rest of the circut is working.) Measure voltage ACROSS the following resistors: R605 0.7V ; Diff amp current sources is working (7.6 mA) R609 0.7V ; Output current source is working (70mA) R611 0.7V ; Output current mirror is working (70mA) Check VBE on Q600-Q604, all should be about 0.6V. Then check the following voltages (to ground) to verify that the Y amp is working J600 pin 3 ~0.0V (note: for this to read zero, the output transistors must be installed and working) J600 pin 6 ~-0.7V Note: if pins 3 and 6 aren't close to zero then the Y amp is NOT WORKING. Make sure the short is still installed :-) Move the short on J701 from pins 1,2 to pins 3,5. Also move the two 1k resistors from R604,R606 to R704, R706 and Repeat measurements above for the X channel. Don't worry to much about the exact voltage, because when something is wrong, the voltage will sit a close to the rails (12 to 15V). Once all the voltages measure OK, remove the two 1K resistors and the two shorts. Now it's ready to try in the XY monitor. I have fixed +20 XY deflection boards this way. Every single one worked correctly (the first try) when I used this process. (need proof? ask Greg Woodcock or Gaymond Lee) -Scott John, I've got some ideas for a WG HV replacement HV transformer... :-) I got a batch of WG HV and Ampliphone HV units I'm trying to fix, so I might be able to help out... John Robertson wrote: > > Hmm the problem would be the same as is currently happening, except you > would probably blow up your speakers if the outputs are bad... > The idea here is to run the XY amps unloaded so as the output > transistors don't croak if the drive is bad. Perhaps a resistor, say 100 > ohms might be enough of a load to test. I'm trying to find a simple way > to power the monitors (I have about six or so) without having to have a > running game board, nor do I want to toast the outputs by having hte > yokes connected. Soon this will be happening. Is anyone interested in > tested working 19" XY's? Somewhere around $250-$300US... May have my HV > hack... > > Am also chatting with a TV parts wholeseller about flybacks, and we are > looking for a cheap flyback that puts out the voltages needed, and just > hardwire the !@!%$!% thing into a chassis. Then adjust the frequency > down to the 15,XXX (can't remember XXX) Hz so the flyback is happy. This > is not much different than my hack, but might be tidier if it can be > installed in the regular HV cage. Anyone have some time that wants to > look into this with me? That lives near Vancouver? That can handle a > soldering iron???? > > John :-#)# > > jwelser wrote: > > > > Dumb question, and someone might've suggested this already > > (I haven't been following this too closely) but why not, instead > > of coming up with an audio signal to create some predictable video > > signal, why not just use the deflection board/monitor chassis as > > an audio amp (which is essentially what it is) and listen to the > > outputs. If it's working properly, you should get out what you > > put in, and you should be able to recognize it. > > > > The only trick is getting the right level for the input, > > and then you'd need some sort of differential to single-ended > > converter, because most speakers want single-ended inputs, while > > the outputs to the yoke are differential. I can see some board > > that plugs into the output to the yoke, which just has a diff -> > > single ended converter (a couple of op-amps and resistors -- our > > apps. guys put them on our eval. boards all the time at Crystal.. > > errr, I mean Cirrus Logic -- Austin :) ) and a speaker. It should > > actually be pretty easy, and should work -- unless I'm missing > > something. > > > > Of course, it doesn't test the HV, neck board, etc, but > > it might be a real nice way to test deflection boards/chassis. > > > > Joe > > -- > John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 > Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) > mailto:jrr > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From jwelser Mon Nov 9 10:15:46 1998 Received: from piglet.cc.utexas.edu (jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu [128.83.42.61]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mcfeeley.mc-1.24) with ESMTP id KAA00240 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:15:43 -0600 (CST) From: jwelser Received: from localhost (jwelser@localhost) by piglet.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/piglet.mc-1.9) with SMTP id KAA05585 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:15:41 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:15:40 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utex