Major Havoc - No Display, Plays Blind

From owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 31 22:14:18 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA20711 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 22:14:16 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA54497 for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 31 Oct 2000 18:50:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) From: "peter jones" To: vectorlist Subject: Re[2]: VECTOR: A little Asteroids Board Repair help.... please... Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: mPOP Web-Mail 2.19 X-Originating-IP: [213.108.39.22] In-Reply-To: <004601c04372$43637c60$c447bfc7@tomwiz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 05:47:57 +0300 Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO -----Original Message----- From: "TomW" To: Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:39:12 -0600 Subject: Re: VECTOR: A little Asteroids Board Repair help.... please... > Thanks Paul, > Done that, its in the VSM, but why does the self test work, and not the game, and why does the manual loading of code in the vector memory to draw a plus on the screen work as well, but not the game. Basically, the fluke has eliminated, RAM ROM and MPU, I'm confused as to why the VSM would work on the internal board test pattern and the + Code (the code from the atari Cat box test procedure can be loaded thru the fluke to be executed by the VSM, at that point the drawing of the + on the screen is not CPU controlled but totally VSM ), but not work in game play ? > > > Or better yet, what does the self test and + not execute thru the VSM that the Game play would get wacked on ? > > TomW > > > Maybe you have draw a vector in a certain place on the screen. maximum/minimum location on a certain axis? or maybe its the command buffer (if it uses one) try loading it with LOTS of vectors really fast. does it have a flag called 'vector-done' or similar? maybe it draws some vectors, but dont set/clear the flag? sorry to be vague but i have not worked on a vector pcb for a long time! GOOD-LUCK. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 1 09:58:58 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA25732 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 09:58:52 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA55881 for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 06:38:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) Message-ID: <002701c04411$d84f91c0$c447bfc7@tomwiz> From: "TomW" To: Subject: VECTOR: Asteroids Problem Solved.. Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 08:41:37 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01C043DF.8C1183E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C043DF.8C1183E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Last night I had some success with my asteroids board repair, so I = thought I'd share it. I'm writing it up as an old incidence sheet I used = to use.. Problem: Asteroids board watchdogs in play mode, runs self test and = Catbox + Plus draw program fine. It also runs the 'Diag Step' Diagonal = test fine. Fluke 9010 reports no Ram/Rom/Bus/IO faults. I can read/right = to the Vector Ram fine. This board was VERY clean, so clean it looked = brand new. I gave it the Flex'o test as well, game never worked. Solution:So when all else fails, grunt work time. In isolating a = Program Counter line in the Vector section that look weird on the scope = (LOAD6), the line all of a sudden looked fine, reconnect the Pin, and = the game worked fine. Fault Analysis: I then removed the count chip (H6 from memory) and = discoverd that a manufacturing flaw occured, there was a small zit of = solder that was shorting load6 to gnd under the chip. When I cut the = chips pin to fold it up during isolation, I scraped it free with the = micro cutter. The reason the self tests were ok, is that I can only = surmise that during the execution of the drawing code, that the address = that was at fault in bit 6 was never hit. Obviously when it was hit, it = sent the vsm into never never land, and thus, control was never returned = to the CPU, causing a reset. I can only guess that this board was = troublesome from the start and was probably put in storage from day one. = There appears to be a few attempts at repairing it, the watchdog and = clock sections had chips replaced, those repairs were done cleanly. I really need to spend some time on the VSM commands and come up with a = better test sequence for the Fluke, start out with a 3-4 byte command = for just a line, and then offset that line and jump it to a new location = so all address get exercised one at a time and under user control (via = fluke or catbox) then this sort of thing would have been found faster, = at least in this case... Hope this helps someone.. TomW ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C043DF.8C1183E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Last night I had some success with my asteroids = board repair,=20 so I thought I'd share it. I'm writing it up as an old incidence sheet I = used to=20 use..

Problem: Asteroids board watchdogs in play mode, = runs self=20 test and Catbox + Plus draw program fine. It also runs the 'Diag Step' = Diagonal=20 test fine. Fluke 9010 reports no Ram/Rom/Bus/IO faults. I can read/right = to the=20 Vector Ram fine. This board was VERY clean, so clean it looked brand = new. =20 I gave it the Flex'o test as well, game never worked.

Solution:So when all else fails, grunt work time. = In=20 isolating a Program Counter line in the Vector section that look weird = on the=20 scope (LOAD6), the line all of a sudden looked fine, reconnect the Pin, = and the=20 game worked fine.

Fault Analysis: I then removed the count chip (H6 = from memory)=20 and discoverd that a manufacturing flaw occured, there was a small zit = of solder=20 that was shorting load6 to gnd under the chip. When I cut the chips pin = to fold=20 it up during isolation, I scraped it free with the micro cutter. The = reason the=20 self tests were ok, is that I can only surmise that during the execution = of the=20 drawing code, that the address that was at fault in bit 6 was never hit. = Obviously when it was hit, it sent the vsm into never never land, and = thus,=20 control was never returned to the CPU, causing a reset. I can only guess = that=20 this board was troublesome from the start and was probably put in = storage from=20 day one. There appears to be a few attempts at repairing it, the = watchdog and=20 clock sections had chips replaced, those repairs were done = cleanly.

I really need to spend some time on the VSM commands = and come=20 up with a better test sequence for the Fluke, start out with a 3-4 byte = command=20 for just a line, and then offset that line and jump it to a new location = so all=20 address get exercised one at a time and under user control (via fluke or = catbox)=20 then this sort of thing would have been found faster, at least in this=20 case...

Hope this helps someone..

TomW

------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C043DF.8C1183E0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 1 11:39:05 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA09505 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 11:39:04 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA56150 for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 08:16:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20001101111428.01a8fcd0@207.69.200.225> X-Sender: us001378@207.69.200.225 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 11:18:43 -0500 To: vectorlist From: Jon Raiford Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids Problem Solved.. In-Reply-To: <002701c04411$d84f91c0$c447bfc7@tomwiz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO At 08:41 AM 11/1/2000 -0600, you wrote: >I really need to spend some time on the VSM commands and come up with a better test sequence for the Fluke, start out with a 3-4 byte command for just a line, and then offset that line and jump it to a new location so all address get exercised one at a time and under user control (via fluke or catbox) then this sort of thing would have been found faster, at least in this case... Tom, let me know what you come up with because I'd like to use those same commands for my test roms. That way those of us without a catbox can still make use of them. Jon --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 1 13:23:06 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA27552 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 13:23:04 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA56496 for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 09:57:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) X-Originating-IP: [205.229.114.228] From: "Clay Cowgill" To: vectorlist Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids Problem Solved.. Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 09:53:52 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Nov 2000 17:53:53.0258 (UTC) FILETIME=[B2A1ECA0:01C0442C] Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO >Tom, let me know what you come up with because I'd like to use those same >commands for my test roms. That way those of us without a catbox can still >make use of them. To really test the vector ROMs you should do a couple things (probably in sequence stepped by a button or something): 1) Short direct drawing commands (<8 bytes total), draw a plus or something (the "are you alive?" test) 2) short drawing sequence, but draw a box at the current beam location (that'll test a little more of the VSM program counter) 3) Make the box a subroutine, then JSR to it. (Test one level of stack) 4) Make a "/" the size of the box. Have the "/" call the box as a subroutine. Call the "/" from the display list (tests two levels of stack). 5) Make a "\" the size of the box. Have the "\" call the "/" (which calls the box). Call the "\" from the display list (test three levels of stack. 6) Now make a longer sequence that draws a the "X" box in each quadrant of the screen. (tests more of the program counter) 7) Locate the draw sequence (terminated by a VGHALT) every 128 bytes or so in VRAM. JMP to it from the beginning of VRAM. With every button press, increment the JMP to the next sequence in VRAM. That'll test the rest of the program counter across VRAM (and the VRAM itself to a certain degree). Then you'll need to display objects from the game ROMs to make sure you can see all of those OK. (The rest of the Program counter range basically) It'd be neat to do a real CRC 16 on the ROMs too-- be a little more thorough than a checksum. Run a few scale/intensity checks and I'd say the VSM would be 100% functional if it can do all that. If not, the sequence of tests should lead you right to the problem. (Bad program counter, bad VRAM area, bad VSM stack, etc.) -Clay _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 1 19:38:54 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA23276 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 19:38:52 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA57593 for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 16:02:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) From: "Phillip Eaton" To: Subject: VECTOR: CRCs, Sig Anal etc. Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 23:58:45 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO Hi All, If anyones interested, I wrote an article about how the Atari CATBox signature analysis works together with a Sig Anal emulator in MS QBasic (with source code), which takes a ROM image and creates a signature. I got interested after borrowing XY-Man's CATBox for a while. The signatures check out with the Atari ones in their Sig Analysis guides. It's at http://www.freedomprojects.co.uk/siganal1.zip (MS Word with linked graphics) http://www.freedomprojects.co.uk/siganal2.zip (MS Word with embedded graphics) If anyone needs QBasic - give me a shout - I'll mail it to you. The article has the relevant circuits from the Catbox, pictures and the code, and you are shown how the algorithm works to calc the CRC, and how the counters instead of the processor to do the testing. A long term project of mine is to re-create a CATBox-type device using a 64180 processor-based embedded computer (64180 is basically a Z80 with memory paging, serial devices and other stuff built in) with an LCD and keypad, coded in my favourite language - Forth! (After I've finished my current project which is an Atari Centipede emulator written in Forth.) Any other Forth guru's out there? Comments on the article _greatly_appreciated_!! Phillip Eaton (D-Type/Flip-Flop) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Tel: +44 (0) 1536 504434 Tel2: +44 (0) 1536 268424 Mobile: +44 (0) 7775 726366 Fax: +44 (0) 845 334 8195 Email: d-type@freedomprojects.co.uk Website: http://www.freedomprojects.co.uk --------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 1 20:49:05 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA00411 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 20:49:04 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA57850 for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 17:20:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001101171442.00c03730 > X-Sender: jrr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 17:18:34 +1100 To: vectorlist > From: John Robertson Subject: Re: VECTOR: CRCs, Sig Anal etc. In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO Sounds interesting. Bill Ung, a number of years ago, wrote a small DOS based program that would take files and calculate the checksum and display on the screen, plus the estimated size of the ROM. If anyone wants that program it is at: http://www.flippers.com/exe/romsum.exe Put it in your "Path" and then if you evoke it from a dos window it will chug away happily! Don't worry, it is virus free.... John :-#)# At 10:58 AM 11/2/00, Phillip Eaton wrote: >Hi All, > >If anyones interested, I wrote an article about how the Atari CATBox >signature analysis works together with a Sig Anal emulator in MS QBasic >(with source code), which takes a ROM image and creates a signature. I got >interested after borrowing XY-Man's CATBox for a while. > >The signatures check out with the Atari ones in their Sig Analysis guides. > >It's at >http://www.freedomprojects.co.uk/siganal1.zip (MS Word with linked graphics) >http://www.freedomprojects.co.uk/siganal2.zip (MS Word with embedded >graphics) > >If anyone needs QBasic - give me a shout - I'll mail it to you. > >The article has the relevant circuits from the Catbox, pictures and the >code, and you are shown how the algorithm works to calc the CRC, and how the >counters instead of the processor to do the testing. > >A long term project of mine is to re-create a CATBox-type device using a >64180 processor-based embedded computer (64180 is basically a Z80 with >memory paging, serial devices and other stuff built in) with an LCD and >keypad, coded in my favourite language - Forth! (After I've finished my >current project which is an Atari Centipede emulator written in Forth.) Any >other Forth guru's out there? > >Comments on the article _greatly_appreciated_!! > >Phillip Eaton (D-Type/Flip-Flop) >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >Tel: +44 (0) 1536 504434 >Tel2: +44 (0) 1536 268424 >Mobile: +44 (0) 7775 726366 >Fax: +44 (0) 845 334 8195 >Email: d-type@freedomprojects.co.uk >Website: http://www.freedomprojects.co.uk >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the >** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other >** questions, comments, or problems to neil . --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Wed Nov 1 22:33:54 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA14687 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 22:33:52 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA58342 for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 19:09:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 19:06:36 -0800 From: Patrick Lawrence To: vectorlist Subject: VECTOR: WG 19K61xx problem Message-ID: <20001101190636.X6917 > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZcaUvQ23gCOmDTXi" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO --ZcaUvQ23gCOmDTXi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, I've got a WG 19K61xx monitor that blows F600 about 3 seconds after it's powered up. According to the Atari vector FAQ, R612 should be checked to see if it's open (that's if F600 blows immediately which it doesn't in my case.) This deflection board was tested and working so it's gotta be the transistors on the chassis or a problem with the neck board. Any pointers? Also, if anybody knows what other problems there are or might be now on the deflection board as a result, I'd appreciate hearing about it. Thanks a bunch, Pat --=20 "You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake!" - Tyler Durden --ZcaUvQ23gCOmDTXi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjoA2jwACgkQrNiXbbxh4Ofa/gCeKOikknidMtKXpfKgoNhOsQWC 91oAoLSPjwKau/ZPsiMBd0Y4MsOntyPC =Dbcf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ZcaUvQ23gCOmDTXi-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Thu Nov 2 01:59:22 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA04851 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 01:59:21 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA58822 for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 22:27:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) From: MKDUD Message-ID: <87.24be242.27326294 > Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 01:24:20 EST Subject: VECTOR: Please help with Battlezone board To: vectorlist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 109 Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO Watchdog is resetting in play mode. In test mode, I get 2 low beeps (2114's at H2 and J2 are testing good), then I get 2 high beeps (A1 and A2 are testing bad). I've socketed and replaced A1 and A2 with tested good 2114's. I've also socketed and replaced the LS245's at P2 and F2. I socketed replaced the LS244's at K3 and N2 with new AS244's. The 6502A is tested good in another board. Address lines from the CPU all show activity as they should. I'm pretty stuck on this one, please help if you can. Thanks Very Much, Michael Kelley --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Thu Nov 2 02:13:56 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA06094 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 02:13:55 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA58909 for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 1 Nov 2000 22:52:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) X-Originating-IP: [24.6.217.124] From: "Clay Cowgill" To: vectorlist Subject: Re: VECTOR: Please help with Battlezone board Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 22:48:55 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Nov 2000 06:48:55.0752 (UTC) FILETIME=[F8476480:01C04498] Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO >Watchdog is resetting in play mode. [...] >Address lines from the CPU all show activity as they should. >I'm pretty stuck on this one, please help if you can. Does it run at all? (Can you play for a while, or does it just perpetually reset when in play mode?) (If it plays for a while and dies, I'd watch the power supply closely with a meter or scope. My BZ was glitching during play-- turned out the +5 rail was browning out to around ~3.6V from time to time. I shotgun debugged it with a spare ARII and it's been fine ever since...) -Clay _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Thu Nov 2 04:56:31 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA20201 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 04:56:30 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA59336 for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 01:28:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) Message-ID: <3A013412.5F569EED@cedar-rapids.net> Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 03:29:55 -0600 From: Rodger Boots Organization: No noticeable organization. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: VECTOR: Please help with Battlezone board References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO Clay Cowgill wrote: > >Watchdog is resetting in play mode. > [...] > >Address lines from the CPU all show activity as they should. > >I'm pretty stuck on this one, please help if you can. > > Does it run at all? (Can you play for a while, or does it just perpetually > reset when in play mode?) > > (If it plays for a while and dies, I'd watch the power supply closely with a > meter or scope. My BZ was glitching during play-- turned out the +5 rail > was browning out to around ~3.6V from time to time. I shotgun debugged it > with a spare ARII and it's been fine ever since...) > I used to work on Atari games that did that very thing and the problem was the resistor connected across the regulator being the wrong value (from the factory!). One video would only fail with the back door on. With the back door open it got just enough air flow the the regulator didn't trip out. Don't know if an ARII is wired that way, though. > > -Clay > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the > ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other > ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . -- Windows: 32 bit graphical interface for a 16 bit patch for an 8 bit operating system written for a 4 bit processor by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Thu Nov 2 04:56:31 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA20203 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 04:56:30 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA59367 for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 01:39:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) From: "Phillip Eaton" To: Subject: RE: VECTOR: CRCs, Sig Anal etc. Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 09:35:42 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001101171442.00c03730 > Importance: Normal Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO > Bill Ung, a number of years ago, wrote a small DOS based program > that would > take files and calculate the checksum and display on the screen, plus the > estimated size of the ROM. If anyone wants that program it is at: > > http://www.flippers.com/exe/romsum.exe I checked this out, but it does a chexsum on the complete ROM image, not on a single data line of a ROM, so it doesn't give 8 results per ROM, that are the same as the Atari published ones. Similarly, it doesn't tell you what algorithm it uses. It looks to be a 16 bit one, though. ROMIdent uses 32 bit, which pretty much does the same thing. Phillip Eaton (D-Type/Flip-Flop) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Tel: +44 (0) 1536 504434 Tel2: +44 (0) 1536 268424 Mobile: +44 (0) 7775 726366 Fax: +44 (0) 845 334 8195 Email: d-type@freedomprojects.co.uk Website: http://www.freedomprojects.co.uk --------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Thu Nov 2 08:54:53 2000 Return-Path: Received: from orion.smart.net (orion.smart.net [207.176.80.105]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA11307 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 08:54:53 -0500 Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by orion.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA00547 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 08:50:01 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA59799 for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 05:23:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20001102082434.01a8cc28@207.69.200.225> X-Sender: us001378@207.69.200.225 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 08:26:23 -0500 To: vectorlist From: Jon Raiford Subject: Re: VECTOR: Please help with Battlezone board In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO I had this same problem before and it turned out to be the big blue capacitor in the transformer assembly. Check your +5v on AC and see if it registers anything. Jon At 10:48 PM 11/1/2000 -0800, you wrote: >>Watchdog is resetting in play mode. >[...] >>Address lines from the CPU all show activity as they should. >>I'm pretty stuck on this one, please help if you can. > >Does it run at all? (Can you play for a while, or does it just perpetually reset when in play mode?) > >(If it plays for a while and dies, I'd watch the power supply closely with a meter or scope. My BZ was glitching during play-- turned out the +5 rail was browning out to around ~3.6V from time to time. I shotgun debugged it with a spare ARII and it's been fine ever since...) > >-Clay --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Thu Nov 2 09:11:58 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA14004 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 09:11:51 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA59826 for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 05:35:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) Message-ID: <014c01c044c9$1411ccc0$0d01a8c0@kevin2> From: "Kev" To: References: <4.2.2.20001026091724.01ae1c80@207.69.200.225> <000f01c04297$93275fe0$0d01a8c0@kevin2> <39FDBDB2.F793C95F@cedar-rapids.net> <009f01c042a0$dfce1740$0d01a8c0@kevin2> <39FE9A72.831C7C3D@cedar-rapids.net> Subject: VECTOR: Red Baron, Fix phase one Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 07:33:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO Okay, I gave up last night & swapped the RB chips into a working Battlezone AVG board & low & behold my mathbox actually works. I'm planning to go back & verify my signatures & see if this makes a difference. Before I did swap I noticed that the scale of the lettering on the original RB AVG seems to increase from left to right, top to bottom. In other words. The "SCORE" and "VALUE" displays seem okay but "HIGH SCORE" is larger and cut off, being only "HIGH SCO". The "ATARI" at the bottom of the screen is also larger. I spent a little time poking around for a bad line in the scale section but I didn't find anything that is stuck so I'm guessing I've got a counter or gate that hasn't completely failed? Any suggestions for cornering that bugger? Thanks, Kev mowerman --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Thu Nov 2 10:06:25 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA23619 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 10:06:24 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA59994 for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 06:40:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) Message-ID: From: "Evrovski, Andrew" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: VECTOR: Major Havoc - No Display, Plays Blind Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 09:30:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C044D9.7E691302" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C044D9.7E691302 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Folks, I have a pesky Major Havoc board that refuses to give me any video. I have replaced all chips in the video output section (AM6012, LF13201, TL082CP, TL084CN, DAC08CN) as well as the transistors Q6 & Q7 (linear scaling section of circuit). I am pretty much at a loss here. I thought replacing those buggers would work, but alas, no success. All other socketed chips have been brought over from a working board, so all RAMS, ROMS, CPUS, AVG - 13379-?? chip (AMI), POKEYS, ATARI Custom Chips, - literally everything that was originally socket plus the newly socketed chips mentioned above are working chips). The game plays. I can pump credits, click the start and audio kicks in proper sequences and the game plays... blind. Where do I go from here? I am definitely at a loss for my next step and any help would be appreciated. Cheers /\A\n\d\y/ Andrew Evrovski Development Director Cyberplex Atlantic, Halifax, NS (TSE:CX) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C044D9.7E691302 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Major Havoc - No Display, Plays Blind

Hello Folks,

I have a = pesky Major Havoc board that refuses to give me any video. I have = replaced all chips in the video output section (AM6012, LF13201, = TL082CP, TL084CN, DAC08CN) as well as the transistors Q6 & Q7 = (linear scaling section of circuit). I am pretty much at a loss = here. I thought replacing those buggers would work, but alas, no = success. All other socketed chips have been brought over from a = working board, so all RAMS, ROMS, CPUS, AVG - 13379-?? chip (AMI), = POKEYS, ATARI Custom Chips, - literally everything that was originally = socket plus the newly socketed chips mentioned above are working = chips).

The game = plays. I can pump credits, click the start and audio kicks in = proper sequences and the game plays... blind. Where do I go from = here? I am definitely at a loss for my next step and any help = would be appreciated.

Cheers
/\A\n\d\y/

Andrew Evrovski
Development Director
Cyberplex Atlantic, Halifax, NS
(TSE:CX)

------_=_NextPart_001_01C044D9.7E691302-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Thu Nov 2 10:23:25 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA26780 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 10:23:17 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA60079 for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 07:07:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20001102100749.01a60570@207.69.200.225> X-Sender: us001378@207.69.200.225 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 10:10:07 -0500 To: vectorlist From: Jon Raiford Subject: Re: VECTOR: Major Havoc - No Display, Plays Blind In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO What do the X and Y outputs look like? (measure w/ AC on meter) Are they both stuck at 0? Is one moving but not the other? Turn the screen up on the monitor to bypass the spot killer. What does the display look like? Check the +15v and -15v in the vector output section. etc.... Jon At 09:30 AM 11/2/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Hello Folks, > > I have a pesky Major Havoc board that refuses to give me any video. I have replaced all chips in the video output section (AM6012, LF13201, TL082CP, TL084CN, DAC08CN) as well as the transistors Q6 & Q7 (linear scaling section of circuit). I am pretty much at a loss here. I thought replacing those buggers would work, but alas, no success. All other socketed chips have been brought over from a working board, so all RAMS, ROMS, CPUS, AVG - 13379-?? chip (AMI), POKEYS, ATARI Custom Chips, - literally everything that was originally socket plus the newly socketed chips mentioned above are working chips). > > The game plays. I can pump credits, click the start and audio kicks in proper sequences and the game plays... blind. Where do I go from here? I am definitely at a loss for my next step and any help would be appreciated. > >Cheers >/\A\n\d\y/ > >Andrew Evrovski >Development Director >Cyberplex Atlantic, Halifax, NS >(TSE:CX) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Thu Nov 2 11:28:45 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA06535 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:28:43 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA60212 for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 07:58:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) Message-ID: <39B5C4829263D411AA93009027AE9EBB015F6C77@FMSMSX35> From: "Rosenzweig, Joel B" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: VECTOR: Major Havoc - No Display, Plays Blind Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 07:55:50 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C044E5.5F7CFC40" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C044E5.5F7CFC40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Andy, For starters, when you say that you have no video, do you mean you have no output on BOTH the x and y outputs, or do you have a failure on only one side? Given what you have replaced, you've replaced chips in both the digital world in the vector generation side, and the analog world in the video output side. What you need to do is isolate the problem so that you know where to focus. That is, does the board generate the vector data and present it to the DACs, or not? If the data is there and the end result is "no video", then you know you have a failure in the analog video circuit. You'd solve the analog problem first, and then you might find that you have problems in the digital domain as well. If the data is not at the DACs, it would not have helped to replace all those chips in the analog section (yet) since they will not help bring valid digital data to the DACs no matter what you replace there. Troubleshooting the analog section is fairly easy. You can follow the signal from the DAC's all the way off the board with a scope. You may have a bad trace that simply replacing a chip will not fix. You really need to trace each signal along the path through the analog switches and the op-amps. Troubleshooting the digital section is more complicated (depending on what test equipment you have access to!) since with just a scope or a multimeter, you can find pulsing digital data easily enough, but knowing if it's the correct sequence of bits is something else. I'd say that before anyone gets into a good description of how to troubleshoot anything on the digital side, it would help to know if that's really where the problem resides. Then others who have worked on MH specifically will jump right in, I'm sure. Joel- -----Original Message----- From: Evrovski, Andrew [mailto:andy ] Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 9:31 AM To: 'vectorlist ' Subject: VECTOR: Major Havoc - No Display, Plays Blind Hello Folks, I have a pesky Major Havoc board that refuses to give me any video. I have replaced all chips in the video output section (AM6012, LF13201, TL082CP, TL084CN, DAC08CN) as well as the transistors Q6 & Q7 (linear scaling section of circuit). I am pretty much at a loss here. I thought replacing those buggers would work, but alas, no success. All other socketed chips have been brought over from a working board, so all RAMS, ROMS, CPUS, AVG - 13379-?? chip (AMI), POKEYS, ATARI Custom Chips, - literally everything that was originally socket plus the newly socketed chips mentioned above are working chips). The game plays. I can pump credits, click the start and audio kicks in proper sequences and the game plays... blind. Where do I go from here? I am definitely at a loss for my next step and any help would be appreciated. Cheers /\A\n\d\y/ Andrew Evrovski Development Director Cyberplex Atlantic, Halifax, NS (TSE:CX) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C044E5.5F7CFC40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Major Havoc - No Display, Plays Blind

Andy,

For starters, when you say that you have no video, do you mean you have no output on BOTH the x and y outputs, or do you have a failure on only one side? Given what you have replaced, you've replaced chips in both the digital world in the vector generation side, and the analog world in the video output side.

What you need to do is isolate the problem so that you know where to focus. That is, does the board generate the vector data and present it to the DACs, or not? If the data is there and the end result is "no video", then you know you have a failure in the analog video circuit. You'd solve the analog problem first, and then you might find that you have problems in the digital domain as well. If the data is not at the DACs, it would not have helped to replace all those chips in the analog section (yet) since they will not help bring valid digital data to the DACs no matter what you replace there.

Troubleshooting the analog section is fairly easy. You can follow the signal from the DAC's all the way off the board with a scope. You may have a bad trace that simply replacing a chip will not fix. You really need to trace each signal along the path through the analog switches and the op-amps.

Troubleshooting the digital section is more complicated (depending on what test equipment you have access to!) since with just a scope or a multimeter, you can find pulsing digital data easily enough, but knowing if it's the correct sequence of bits is something else. I'd say that before anyone gets into a good description of how to troubleshoot anything on the digital side, it would help to know if that's really where the problem resides. Then others who have worked on MH specifically will jump right in, I'm sure.

Joel-

-----Original Message-----
From: Evrovski, Andrew [mailto:andy ]
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 9:31 AM
To: 'vectorlist '
Subject: VECTOR: Major Havoc - No Display, Plays Blind

Hello Folks,

I have a pesky Major Havoc board that refuses to give me any video. I have replaced all chips in the video output section (AM6012, LF13201, TL082CP, TL084CN, DAC08CN) as well as the transistors Q6 & Q7 (linear scaling section of circuit). I am pretty much at a loss here. I thought replacing those buggers would work, but alas, no success. All other socketed chips have been brought over from a working board, so all RAMS, ROMS, CPUS, AVG - 13379-?? chip (AMI), POKEYS, ATARI Custom Chips, - literally everything that was originally socket plus the newly socketed chips mentioned above are working chips).

The game plays. I can pump credits, click the start and audio kicks in proper sequences and the game plays... blind. Where do I go from here? I am definitely at a loss for my next step and any help would be appreciated.

Cheers
/\A\n\d\y/

Andrew Evrovski
Development Director
Cyberplex Atlantic, Halifax, NS
(TSE:CX)

------_=_NextPart_001_01C044E5.5F7CFC40-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Thu Nov 2 11:37:06 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA07972 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:37:03 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA60246 for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 08:08:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) From: MKDUD Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:04:35 EST Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids Problem Solved.. To: vectorlist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 109 Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO In a message dated 11/1/00 9:38:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, twisnion writes: << Problem: Asteroids board watchdogs in play mode, runs self test and Catbox + Plus draw program fine. It also runs the 'Diag Step' Diagonal test fine. Fluke 9010 reports no Ram/Rom/Bus/IO faults. I can read/right to the Vector Ram fine. This board was VERY clean, so clean it looked brand new. I gave it the Flex'o test as well, game never worked. >> Please excuse my ignorance on this, but what exactly is "Flex'o test"?? Can someone please explain this? Thank You! MK --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Thu Nov 2 11:50:16 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA10229 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:50:14 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA60298 for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 08:20:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) From: MKDUD Message-ID: <40.2dac507.2732ed76 > Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:16:54 EST Subject: Re: VECTOR: Please help with Battlezone board To: vectorlist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 109 Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO In a message dated 11/2/00 1:52:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, vector_clay writes: << Does it run at all? (Can you play for a while, or does it just perpetually reset when in play mode?) (If it plays for a while and dies, I'd watch the power supply closely with a meter or scope. My BZ was glitching during play-- turned out the +5 rail was browning out to around ~3.6V from time to time. I shotgun debugged it with a spare ARII and it's been fine ever since...) >> Power supply is good, (5.15v on AVG with no ripple), game works fine with working BZ AVG, but I'm trying to fix this broken AVG. Thanks, MK --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Thu Nov 2 11:52:19 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA10580 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:52:16 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA60367 for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 08:32:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001102083011.00d09680 > X-Sender: jrr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 08:31:03 +1100 To: vectorlist From: John Robertson Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids Problem Solved.. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO Take the board and twist it while watching the screen...if it keeps running it just passed the patented Flexo-Test (Trademark reserved) ;-) John :-#)# At 03:04 AM 11/3/00, MKDUD wrote: >In a message dated 11/1/00 9:38:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, >twisnion writes: > ><< Problem: Asteroids board watchdogs in play mode, runs self test and Catbox >+ Plus draw program fine. It also runs the 'Diag Step' Diagonal test fine. >Fluke 9010 reports no Ram/Rom/Bus/IO faults. I can read/right to the Vector >Ram fine. This board was VERY clean, so clean it looked brand new. I gave it >the Flex'o test as well, game never worked. >> > >Please excuse my ignorance on this, but what exactly is "Flex'o test"?? Can >someone please explain this? Thank You! > >MK >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the >** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other >** questions, comments, or problems to neil . --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Thu Nov 2 11:53:15 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA10765 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:53:13 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA60325 for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 08:26:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) From: MKDUD Message-ID: <7e.c5cc936.2732eecb > Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:22:35 EST Subject: Re: VECTOR: Please help with Battlezone board To: vectorlist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 109 Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO In a message dated 11/2/00 1:30:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, MKDUD writes: << Watchdog is resetting in play mode. In test mode, I get 2 low beeps (2114's at H2 and J2 are testing good), then I get 2 high beeps (A1 and A2 are testing bad). I've socketed and replaced A1 and A2 with tested good 2114's. I've also socketed and replaced the LS245's at P2 and F2. I socketed replaced the LS244's at K3 and N2 with new AS244's. The 6502A is tested good in another board. Address lines from the CPU all show activity as they should. I'm pretty stuck on this one, please help if you can. >> >>Did you check out the chip selects? Are you seeing activity on all the selects? It looks like you've done most of the address/data path work.. Kurt<< Thanks Very Much for your response. Chip select (pin 8 on 2114's) are fine on H2 and J2 (HLP), but seem to be stuck low on A1 and A2. I'm looking at the LS42 at B4 now, but I' waiting to get a replacement for it at the moment. I'm also looking at LS157's at E4 and D4, and guess I'll have to go through the stack counter as well. Any other suggestions on the chip select being low? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Thu Nov 2 11:54:59 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA11013 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:54:53 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA60349 for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 08:28:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) From: MKDUD Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:24:27 EST Subject: Re: VECTOR: Major Havoc - No Display, Plays Blind To: vectorlist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 109 Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO In a message dated 11/2/00 9:42:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, andy writes: << The game plays. I can pump credits, click the start and audio kicks in proper sequences and the game plays... blind. Where do I go from here? I am definitely at a loss for my next step and any help would be appreciated. >> Are you getting any signals from the x, y and z outputs?? If so, what's there? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Thu Nov 2 12:06:51 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA13246 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 12:06:49 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA60404 for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 08:38:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) From: MKDUD Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:34:33 EST Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids Problem Solved.. To: vectorlist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 109 Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO In a message dated 11/2/00 11:33:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, jrr writes: << Take the board and twist it while watching the screen...if it keeps running it just passed the patented Flexo-Test (Trademark reserved) ;-) >> I'm guessing this would be a test for poor solder joints?? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Thu Nov 2 12:44:44 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA19862 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 12:44:42 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA60599 for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 09:23:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001102092004.00cff780 > X-Sender: jrr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 09:21:42 +1100 To: vectorlist From: John Robertson Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids Problem Solved.. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO This tests poor solder connections, legs bent under chips and not actually soldered to board, bad IC sockets, the quality of the edge connector junction, and your strength... John :-#)# At 03:34 AM 11/3/00, MKDUD wrote: >In a message dated 11/2/00 11:33:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, >jrr writes: > ><< Take the board and twist it while watching the screen...if it keeps >running > it just passed the patented Flexo-Test (Trademark reserved) ;-) >> > >I'm guessing this would be a test for poor solder joints?? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Thu Nov 2 13:08:11 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA23290 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 13:08:04 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA60660 for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 09:39:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) Content-return: allowed Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 10:33:33 -0700 From: John Butler Subject: RE: VECTOR: Asteroids Problem Solved.. To: "'vectorlist > Message-id: <18FBB03FB58ED4118E7800B0D03D6BAD4CFA4F@mainex4.asu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_gIw4bzEvJ4z+tWVnoc9JGw)" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --Boundary_(ID_gIw4bzEvJ4z+tWVnoc9JGw) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Boy, did that open the way back book. In the "day" that was called the Atari Twist. One of my friends had an Atari 1040ST that started to malfunction. Since it was under warranty, we called Atari. They said grab front right and back left corners. Twist. Do the same for the other corners. Now pick it up four inches from the desk and drop it straight down. Did it fix it...... Yes...... Oh, the days of real computer tech support..... John -----Original Message----- From: MKDUD ] Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 9:35 AM To: vectorlist Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids Problem Solved.. In a message dated 11/2/00 11:33:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, jrr writes: << Take the board and twist it while watching the screen...if it keeps running it just passed the patented Flexo-Test (Trademark reserved) ;-) >> I'm guessing this would be a test for poor solder joints?? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . --Boundary_(ID_gIw4bzEvJ4z+tWVnoc9JGw) Content-type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable RE: VECTOR: Asteroids Problem Solved..

Boy, did that open the way back book. In the = "day" that was called the Atari Twist. One of my = friends had an Atari 1040ST that started to malfunction. Since it = was under warranty, we called Atari. They said grab front right = and back left corners. Twist. Do the same for the other = corners. Now pick it up four inches from the desk and drop it = straight down. Did it fix it...... Yes...... Oh, the days = of real computer tech support.....

John

-----Original Message-----
From: MKDUD []
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 9:35 AM
To: vectorlist
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Asteroids Problem = Solved..

In a message dated 11/2/00 11:33:16 AM Eastern = Standard Time,
jrr writes:

<< Take the board and twist it while watching = the screen...if it keeps
running
it just passed the patented Flexo-Test = (Trademark reserved) ;-) >>

I'm guessing this would be a test for poor solder = joints??
---------------------------------------------------------------= ------------
** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message = with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the
** message body to vectorlist-request . = Please direct other
** questions, comments, or problems to = neil .

Don't forget the hammer test, thats what you use = when all else=20 has failed...

Or the Range as a plinking target ;-)

TomW

-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 John Butler <John.Butler@asu.edu>
To:= = <>Date:=20 Thursday, November 02, 2000 12:06 PM
Subject: RE: = VECTOR:=20 Asteroids Problem Solved..

Boy, did that open the way back book. In the "day" = that was=20 called the Atari Twist. One of my friends had an Atari 1040ST = that=20 started to malfunction. Since it was under warranty, we called=20 Atari. They said grab front right and back left corners. =20 Twist. Do the same for the other corners. Now pick it up = four=20 inches from the desk and drop it straight down. Did it fix = it......=20 Yes...... Oh, the days of real computer tech = support.....

John

-----Original Message-----
From:=20 MKDUD []=20
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 9:35 AM =
To: vectorlist
Subject: Re:=20 VECTOR: Asteroids Problem Solved..

In a message dated 11/2/00 11:33:16 AM Eastern = Standard Time,=20
jrr writes:

<< Take the board and twist it while watching = the=20 screen...if it keeps
running =
it just passed the patented Flexo-Test (Trademark = reserved) ;-)=20 >>

I'm guessing this would be a test for poor solder=20 joints??
----------------------------------------------------------------= -----------=20
** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message = with=20 "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the
** message body to=20 vectorlist-request . Please direct other
** questions, comments, or problems to = neil .=20

------=_NextPart_000_0078_01C044CE.EEF72560-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Thu Nov 2 17:27:02 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA03142 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 17:26:59 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA61651 for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 14:12:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) Message-ID: From: "Evrovski, Andrew" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: VECTOR: Major Havoc - No Display, Plays Blind Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 17:02:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C04518.8AD3A352" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C04518.8AD3A352 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thanks for your advice (and everyone's input). To clarify, what I see is a steady minimal voltage on both X & Y loops (around 0.6 - 0.9 VDC) steady... (I tested a working board X&Y and have seen what things SHOULD look like and I am not seeing anything like that on this board). When I turn up the birghtness to bypass spotkiller, I get a diagonal line about an inch in length. I adjusted the y-cntr pot and the line moves up and down (I used part of the Tempest theory of operation to get that far). After that point, it looks like it's a VSM-fault (maybe it's different for MH), but I am not armed with anything other than a Fluke 867B Graphical MultiMeter. A> -----Original Message----- From: Rosenzweig, Joel B [mailto:joel.b.rosenzweig ] Sent: November 2, 2000 11:56 To: 'vectorlist ' Subject: RE: VECTOR: Major Havoc - No Display, Plays Blind Andy, For starters, when you say that you have no video, do you mean you have no output on BOTH the x and y outputs, or do you have a failure on only one side? Given what you have replaced, you've replaced chips in both the digital world in the vector generation side, and the analog world in the video output side. What you need to do is isolate the problem so that you know where to focus. That is, does the board generate the vector data and present it to the DACs, or not? If the data is there and the end result is "no video", then you know you have a failure in the analog video circuit. You'd solve the analog problem first, and then you might find that you have problems in the digital domain as well. If the data is not at the DACs, it would not have helped to replace all those chips in the analog section (yet) since they will not help bring valid digital data to the DACs no matter what you replace there. Troubleshooting the analog section is fairly easy. You can follow the signal from the DAC's all the way off the board with a scope. You may have a bad trace that simply replacing a chip will not fix. You really need to trace each signal along the path through the analog switches and the op-amps. Troubleshooting the digital section is more complicated (depending on what test equipment you have access to!) since with just a scope or a multimeter, you can find pulsing digital data easily enough, but knowing if it's the correct sequence of bits is something else. I'd say that before anyone gets into a good description of how to troubleshoot anything on the digital side, it would help to know if that's really where the problem resides. Then others who have worked on MH specifically will jump right in, I'm sure. Joel- -----Original Message----- From: Evrovski, Andrew [mailto:andy ] Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 9:31 AM To: 'vectorlist ' Subject: VECTOR: Major Havoc - No Display, Plays Blind Hello Folks, I have a pesky Major Havoc board that refuses to give me any video. I have replaced all chips in the video output section (AM6012, LF13201, TL082CP, TL084CN, DAC08CN) as well as the transistors Q6 & Q7 (linear scaling section of circuit). I am pretty much at a loss here. I thought replacing those buggers would work, but alas, no success. All other socketed chips have been brought over from a working board, so all RAMS, ROMS, CPUS, AVG - 13379-?? chip (AMI), POKEYS, ATARI Custom Chips, - literally everything that was originally socket plus the newly socketed chips mentioned above are working chips). The game plays. I can pump credits, click the start and audio kicks in proper sequences and the game plays... blind. Where do I go from here? I am definitely at a loss for my next step and any help would be appreciated. Cheers /\A\n\d\y/ Andrew Evrovski Development Director Cyberplex Atlantic, Halifax, NS (TSE:CX) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C04518.8AD3A352 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Major Havoc - No Display, Plays Blind

Thanks for your advice (and everyone's input).

To clarify, what I see is a steady minimal voltage on both X & Y loops (around 0.6 - 0.9 VDC) steady... (I tested a working board X&Y and have seen what things SHOULD look like and I am not seeing anything like that on this board).

When I turn up the birghtness to bypass spotkiller, I get a diagonal line about an inch in length. I adjusted the y-cntr pot and the line moves up and down (I used part of the Tempest theory of operation to get that far). After that point, it looks like it's a VSM-fault (maybe it's different for MH), but I am not armed with anything other than a Fluke 867B Graphical MultiMeter.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rosenzweig, Joel B [mailto:joel.b.rosenzweig ]
Sent: November 2, 2000 11:56
To: 'vectorlist '
Subject: RE: VECTOR: Major Havoc - No Display, Plays Blind

Andy,

For starters, when you say that you have no video, do you mean you have no output on BOTH the x and y outputs, or do you have a failure on only one side? Given what you have replaced, you've replaced chips in both the digital world in the vector generation side, and the analog world in the video output side.

What you need to do is isolate the problem so that you know where to focus. That is, does the board generate the vector data and present it to the DACs, or not? If the data is there and the end result is "no video", then you know you have a failure in the analog video circuit. You'd solve the analog problem first, and then you might find that you have problems in the digital domain as well. If the data is not at the DACs, it would not have helped to replace all those chips in the analog section (yet) since they will not help bring valid digital data to the DACs no matter what you replace there.

Troubleshooting the analog section is fairly easy. You can follow the signal from the DAC's all the way off the board with a scope. You may have a bad trace that simply replacing a chip will not fix. You really need to trace each signal along the path through the analog switches and the op-amps.

Troubleshooting the digital section is more complicated (depending on what test equipment you have access to!) since with just a scope or a multimeter, you can find pulsing digital data easily enough, but knowing if it's the correct sequence of bits is something else. I'd say that before anyone gets into a good description of how to troubleshoot anything on the digital side, it would help to know if that's really where the problem resides. Then others who have worked on MH specifically will jump right in, I'm sure.

Joel-

-----Original Message-----
From: Evrovski, Andrew [mailto:andy ]
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 9:31 AM
To: 'vectorlist '
Subject: VECTOR: Major Havoc - No Display, Plays Blind

Hello Folks,

I have a pesky Major Havoc board that refuses to give me any video. I have replaced all chips in the video output section (AM6012, LF13201, TL082CP, TL084CN, DAC08CN) as well as the transistors Q6 & Q7 (linear scaling section of circuit). I am pretty much at a loss here. I thought replacing those buggers would work, but alas, no success. All other socketed chips have been brought over from a working board, so all RAMS, ROMS, CPUS, AVG - 13379-?? chip (AMI), POKEYS, ATARI Custom Chips, - literally everything that was originally socket plus the newly socketed chips mentioned above are working chips).

The game plays. I can pump credits, click the start and audio kicks in proper sequences and the game plays... blind. Where do I go from here? I am definitely at a loss for my next step and any help would be appreciated.

Cheers
/\A\n\d\y/

Andrew Evrovski
Development Director
Cyberplex Atlantic, Halifax, NS
(TSE:CX)

------_=_NextPart_001_01C04518.8AD3A352-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Thu Nov 2 17:28:44 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA03526 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 17:28:43 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA61614 for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 14:02:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) Message-ID: From: "Evrovski, Andrew" To: "'vectorlist > Subject: RE: VECTOR: Major Havoc - No Display, Plays Blind Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 16:52:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C04517.26916100" Sender: owner-vectorlist Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist Status: RO This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C04517.26916100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" both are not swinging (around .6-.9 VDC) steady. I turn up brightness and see a red line (small about 1 inch diagonal).. Y cntr pot moves the line up and down... +/- 15 volt loops are fine. A> -----Original Message----- From: Jon Raiford [mailto:raiford ] Sent: November 2, 2000 11:10 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: VECTOR: Major Havoc - No Display, Plays Blind What do the X and Y outputs look like? (measure w/ AC on meter) Are they both stuck at 0? Is one moving but not the other? Turn the screen up on the monitor to bypass the spot killer. What does the display look like? Check the +15v and -15v in the vector output section. etc.... Jon At 09:30 AM 11/2/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Hello Folks, > > I have a pesky Major Havoc board that refuses to give me any video. I have replaced all chips in the video output section (AM6012, LF13201, TL082CP, TL084CN, DAC08CN) as well as the transistors Q6 & Q7 (linear scaling section of circuit). I am pretty much at a loss here. I thought replacing those buggers would work, but alas, no success. All other socketed chips have been brought over from a working board, so all RAMS, ROMS, CPUS, AVG - 13379-?? chip (AMI), POKEYS, ATARI Custom Chips, - literally everything that was originally socket plus the newly socketed chips mentioned above are working chips). > > The game plays. I can pump credits, click the start and audio kicks in proper sequences and the game plays... blind. Where do I go from here? I am definitely at a loss for my next step and any help would be appreciated. > >Cheers >/\A\n\d\y/ > >Andrew Evrovski >Development Director >Cyberplex Atlantic, Halifax, NS >(TSE:CX) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . ------_=_NextPart_001_01C04517.26916100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: VECTOR: Major Havoc - No Display, Plays Blind

both are not swinging (around .6-.9 VDC) = steady.

I turn up brightness and see a red line (small about = 1 inch diagonal).. Y cntr pot moves the line up and down...

+/- 15 volt loops are fine.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Raiford [= ]
Sent: November 2, 2000 11:10
To: vectorlist
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Major Havoc - No Display, Plays = Blind

What do the X and Y outputs look like? (measure = w/ AC on meter) Are they both stuck at 0? Is one moving but = not the other? Turn the screen up on the monitor to bypass the = spot killer. What does the display look like? Check the = +15v and -15v in the vector output section. etc....

Jon

At 09:30 AM 11/2/2000 -0500, you wrote:

>Hello Folks,
>
> = I have a pesky Major Havoc board that refuses to give me any = video. I have replaced all chips in the video output section = (AM6012, LF13201, TL082CP, TL084CN, DAC08CN) as well as the transistors = Q6 & Q7 (linear scaling section of circuit). I am pretty much = at a loss here. I thought replacing those buggers would work, but = alas, no success. All other socketed chips have been brought over = from a working board, so all RAMS, ROMS, CPUS, AVG - 13379-?? chip = (AMI), POKEYS, ATARI Custom Chips, - literally everything that was = originally socket plus the newly socketed chips mentioned above are = working chips).

>
> = The game plays. I can pump credits, click the start and audio = kicks in proper sequences and the game plays... blind. Where do I = go from here? I am definitely at a loss for my next step and any = help would be appreciated.

>
>Cheers
>/\A\n\d\y/
>
>Andrew Evrovski
>Development Director
>Cyberplex Atlantic, Halifax, NS
>(TSE:CX)

---------------------------------------------------------------= ------------
** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message = with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the
** message body to vectorlist-request . = Please direct other
** questions, comments, or problems to = neil .

Thanks Jon. I think that I'll just do that and = go down to the shack and get me a logic probe. BTW, I keep = hearing a lot about the Fluke 9101A or something like that (couldn't = find it on Fluke's site for some reason)... What is it and is this = something I should invest in if I am looking to restore all of my other = precious games? :-)

Guess I'll be having some fun this weekend. = :-)

Cheers
Andy

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Raiford [= ]
Sent: November 2, 2000 23:18
To: vectorlist
Subject: RE: VECTOR: Major Havoc - No Display, Plays = Blind

There are a lot of different things to check in the = VSM :) Check for 12Mhz
on the latches that feed the DAC's (ex pin 11 on = 8B). Check the inputs and
outputs of 7C (demultiplexor). Change out the = vector ram, change out the
vector generator address controller (7E/F). = Hell, change out all of the
socketted chips in the vector generator :) As = long as you have a working
board there, this should be easy enough to = do.

Also check out the halt flag. Maybe the only = reason the game plays blind
is that the CPU isn't waiting for the AVG to = finish. If it is ok, its a
positive piece of information. Usually the VSM = fails in such a way the
game does not play blind. This means that your = problem is most likely with
the output of the VSM and not the internal = processing.

You may want to go to shit shack and pick up a cheap = logic probe (~$10).
It is a cheap way to to test pins for activity = quickly.

Jon

warning: i am not an electrical engineer.. none of my = opinions are based on
reality :)

At 05:02 PM 11/2/00 -0500, you wrote:
>>>>
Thanks for your advice (and everyone's input). =

To clarify, what I see is a steady minimal voltage = on both X & Y loops
(around 0.6 - 0.9 VDC) steady... (I tested a working = board X&Y and have
seen what things SHOULD look like and I am not = seeing anything like that on
this board).

When I turn up the birghtness to bypass spotkiller, = I get a diagonal line
about an inch in length. I adjusted the y-cntr = pot and the line moves up
and down (I used part of the Tempest theory of = operation to get that far).
After that point, it looks like it's a VSM-fault = (maybe it's different for
MH), but I am not armed with anything other than a = Fluke 867B Graphical
MultiMeter.

A>
-----Original Message-----
From: Rosenzweig, Joel B [mailto:joel.b.rosenzweig@int= el.com]
Sent: November 2, 2000 11:56
To: 'vectorlist '
Subject: RE: VECTOR: Major Havoc - No Display, Plays = Blind

Andy,

For starters, when you say that you have no = video, do you mean you have no
output on BOTH the x and y outputs, or do you have a = failure on only one
side? Given what you have replaced, you've = replaced chips in both the
digital world in the vector generation side, and the = analog world in the
video output side.

What you need to do is isolate the problem so = that you know where to
focus. That is, does the board generate the = vector data and present it to
the DACs, or not? If the data is there and the = end result is "no video",
then you know you have a failure in the analog video = circuit. You'd solve
the analog problem first, and then you might find = that you have problems in
the digital domain as well. If the data is not = at the DACs, it would not
have helped to replace all those chips in the analog = section (yet) since
they will not help bring valid digital data to the = DACs no matter what you
replace there.

Troubleshooting the analog section is fairly = easy. You can follow the
signal from the DAC's all the way off the board with = a scope. You may have
a bad trace that simply replacing a chip will not = fix. You really need to
trace each signal along the path through the analog = switches and the op-amps.

Troubleshooting the digital section is more = complicated (depending on what
test equipment you have access to!) since with just = a scope or a
multimeter, you can find pulsing digital data easily = enough, but knowing if
it's the correct sequence of bits is something = else. I'd say that before
anyone gets into a good description of how to = troubleshoot anything on the
digital side, it would help to know if that's really = where the problem
resides. Then others who have worked on MH = specifically will jump right
in, I'm sure.

Joel-

-----Original Message-----
From: Evrovski, Andrew []=
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 9:31 AM
To: 'vectorlist '
Subject: VECTOR: Major Havoc - No Display, Plays = Blind

Hello Folks,

I have a = pesky Major Havoc board that refuses to give me any video.
I have replaced all chips in the video output = section (AM6012, LF13201,
TL082CP, TL084CN, DAC08CN) as well as the = transistors Q6 & Q7 (linear
scaling section of circuit). I am pretty much = at a loss here. I thought
replacing those buggers would work, but alas, no = success. All other
socketed chips have been brought over from a working = board, so all RAMS,
ROMS, CPUS, AVG - 13379-?? chip (AMI), POKEYS, ATARI = Custom Chips, -
literally everything that was originally socket plus = the newly socketed
chips mentioned above are working chips). =

The game = plays. I can pump credits, click the start and audio
kicks in proper sequences and the game plays... = blind. Where do I go from
here? I am definitely at a loss for my next = step and any help would be
appreciated.

Cheers
/\A\n\d\y/

Andrew Evrovski
Development Director
Cyberplex Atlantic, Halifax, NS
(TSE:CX)

<<<<

Whew! This one's going into the book, = people! =20

I had an _Asteroids Deluxe_ board that worked fine, = except for=20 one thing: the big rocks tended to be VERY jumpy, particularly in the = right half=20 of the screen. All other objects behaved normally. =

That clue made me wonder if it could be the DACs or = not,=20 because all other images weren't affected at all. On a hunch, I = swapped=20 the DACs to see if the problem would move. It did not. =

As fate would have it, I got another batch of = _Asteroids=20 Deluxe_ boards to work on recently. To fix one of these boards, I = swapped=20 out ALL socketed chips. To my surprise, this original board now = worked=20 GREAT! Huh?

I thought, "Must have been a flaky ROM. = Maybe one=20 of the vector ROMs." Nope. Swap all the ROMs back, = problem=20 doesn't come back. Swap back the POKEY. No = change.

Swap back the 6502A processor. = Bingo!!!!!!! =20

It was the processor, the whole time!!!! It = wasn't a bad=20 socket, either, because I swapped bad 6502 with good 6502 several times = to=20 verify it.

Whew! I'm ordering a pizza. Just thought = I could=20 help add to the database of weird problems that have strange=20 solutions.

End of line,

Matt J. McCullar

Arlington, TX

------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C045C4.57CAF800-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** To UNSUBSCRIBE from vectorlist, send a message with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the ** message body to vectorlist-request . Please direct other ** questions, comments, or problems to neil . From owner-vectorlist Fri Nov 3 20:09:27 2000 Return-Path: Received: from synthcom.com (ip67.usw3.rb1.pdx.nwlink.com [207.202.141.67]) by smarty.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA12509 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 20:09:27 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA66026 for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Nov 2000 16:49:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-vectorlist ) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 19:46:21 -0500 (EST) From: Doug Jefferys To: vectorlist Subject: Re: VECTOR: Bizarre _Asteroids Deluxe_ problem solved! In-Reply-To: <002301c04607$66b7a280$7a54d7d8 puter> Message-ID: MIME