From andersone@csu.cted.net Fri Oct 1 08:08:25 1999 Received: from mail1.javanet.com (mail1.javanet.com [205.219.162.10]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id IAA03528 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 08:08:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from csu.cted.net (student-southern101.csu.cted.net [149.152.207.32]) by mail1.javanet.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA14091 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:08:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37F4B2C7.FC1098CB@csu.cted.net> Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 09:10:36 -0400 From: Eric Anderson Reply-To: vectorlist Organization: Anderson Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: RATbox interest References: <3D62AB6FFC80D211A84700104B10CB2C02D959FE > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Count me in-terested! -Eric ---------------------- jeff hendrix wrote: > I know this might be a little premature, > but I'd just like to get a head count on how many people might be interested > in the RATbox? > > -jeff > > I'll probably have pawn off one, or both, of my girls to help pay for the > initial run. I just want to make sure we make back enough so I can get them > back. ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: jeff hendrix [mailto:jhendrix ] > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 11:28 AM > To: 'vectorlist ' > Subject: CATbox? RATbox! > > I guess I'll let the CAT out of the bag. > Here is the project Anders and I have been working on. > I threw this web page together in a matter of seconds, just so we have a > brief description of what this thing does. > > http://www.diac.com/~jeffh/rat/ > > We are VERY close to having it working, we get something like a 1% error on > RAM writes when we write all 1's to a memory location. So we are trying to > nail it down. > > -jeff From peter.pachla@vectrex.freeserve.co.uk Fri Oct 1 11:24:21 1999 Received: from mail12.svr.pol.co.uk (mail12.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.215]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id LAA28361 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 11:24:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from modem-2.glucophage.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.69.130] helo=proteus) by mail12.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11X5Tm-000387-00 for vectorlist ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:24:18 +0100 Message-ID: <01a201bf0c29$876997e0$8245883e@proteus> Reply-To: vectorlist From: "Peter Pachla" To: References: <199909281718.NAA03870 > Subject: Re: Vector programming Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:40:00 +0100 Organization: WinterMute MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hi, > It's another aspect to game collecting. I'm a programmer myself, and >used to write games for the old 8-bit machines (6502 based).... Which ones? I used to write games for the Atari 8-bit, CBM-64 and Atari 7800 (not to mention the ST and Amiga). > I always thought the game programmers to be god-like in some way.... So did I until I got into "the biz"....kind of shatters your illusions when you finally meet them and find out what a load of spolit brats they really are (at the companies I worked at anyway). >....Sitting aroung on bean-bags and playing games all day.... No bean bags, plenty of large bottles of Coke though. > The classic hardware is much simpler and more elegant.... That's EXACTLY what I like about the older "classic" systems, they're simple, easy to understand and fun to work with. I've got no time at all for modern day systems - FMV intros, pah (I don't even look at them ONCE, let alone each time I fire up the game). >....I may never suceed in making a popular re-write or enhancement to >a classic Atari vector, but I guarantee you that I'll have loads of fun >failing! Go for it!!! TTFN - Pete. -- Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer. Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC) peter.pachla@virgin.net | peter.pachla@vectrex.freeserve.co.uk | peter.pachla@wintermute.free-online.co.uk | www.wintermute.free-online.co.uk -- From fishd@tiac.net Fri Oct 1 12:47:13 1999 Received: from relay20.smtp.psi.net (relay20.smtp.psi.net [38.8.20.2]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id MAA08892 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:47:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [206.119.45.160] (helo=fishd) by relay20.smtp.psi.net with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for vectorlist id 11X6lt-00065f-00; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:47:05 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19991001134823.12f71c7a@pop.tiac.net> X-Sender: fishd@pop.tiac.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 13:48:23 To: vectorlist From: fishd Subject: Is this Amplifone tube trash? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hi Folks, I finally got around to working on my Amplifone monitor that's been sitting around for a couple of years. After rebuilding the Hi-V board and fixing the deflection bd it was time to cross my fingers and power that bad boy up. The results were pretty... discouraging. The neck of the tube was lit up like a neon sign. A nice shade of violet I'll admit, but not what I was hoping for. The arcing is happening in two places within the tube, on both ends of the heater section. The Hi-V & deflection boards work fine in my SW. The tube is an RCA 19VLTP22 and has an Amplifone P/N, not an Atari P/N (200000-01 vs. 134004-001). The manual calls out a 19VJTP22 but I'm assuming they're compatible. So, is this tube recoverable? It's got very little burn-in so I'd hate to toss it if I can eventually fix it. Any ideas are welcome at this point. Thanks. From chris Fri Oct 1 13:43:58 1999 Received: from westnet.com (chris [206.24.6.2]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id NAA24456 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:43:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by westnet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA18109 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:43:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:43:48 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Heisenbugs In My Tempest In-Reply-To: <019c01bf0b0e$4f724600$dc0101d2@desky> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Thu, 30 Sep 1999, Robert Raiford wrote: > Sounds like a cold solder joint to me. Either a connector or part probably > doesn't have a good solder connection so I would resolder any connectors in That'll probably be next, if I can't easily trace through with the scope to see where things stop. > the signal path (they tend to go with use) and check your parts connections > carefully. Have you recently replaced any parts in the path? If so, maybe Not in the monitor. On the other hand, this first happened when I was installing the Tempest MG -- except that's the board, and no where near the XY ouptuts, and I'm fairly sure this is now in the monitor. Unless it is the wireing harness, and it's just toying with me. :-) > faster can cause these types of problems. BTW, have you tried wacking it on > the side Fonzie style to get the picture back? I could do that with my I didn't want to mention that part, but the third time it knocked out I tried that. Didn't work. Maybe I just didn't find the right spot. > Note: I am officially stealing the term Heisenbug...thank your friend for > me. Use it good health ! -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From rlboots@cedar-rapids.net Fri Oct 1 14:20:21 1999 Received: from CEDAR-RAPIDS.NET (cedar-rapids.net [206.24.60.1]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id OAA29935 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:20:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cedar-rapids.net ([208.242.241.185]) by CEDAR-RAPIDS.NET with ESMTP (IPAD 2.5/64) id 0159100 ; Fri, 01 Oct 1999 14:18:37 -0500 Message-ID: <37F5093F.9FC018FF@cedar-rapids.net> Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 14:19:27 -0500 From: Rodger Boots Organization: No noticable organization. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Is this Amplifone tube trash? References: <3.0.1.16.19991001134823.12f71c7a@pop.tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Have you made sure the high voltage isn't set too high? If the entire neck is lit like a neon bulb (not just the heater) you probably have a gassy tube. If so the only fix for it is to have it rebuilt. If there is any burn in at all you'll want a new tube instead. The only listed substitution for a 19VJTP22 is a 19VJMP22 (and vice versa). Normally I'd say you need to put in the tube the manual calls for, but since you appear to have the original tube you should stick with it. Mounting might be slightly different even though electrically they may be the same. A 19VLTP22 crosses with a 19VMFP22 (but not the other way). Take a look at http://catalog.rell.com/rellecom/scripts/SkuPage.asp?SKU=63699 for availability. fishd wrote: > Hi Folks, > > I finally got around to working on my Amplifone monitor > that's been sitting around for a couple of years. After > rebuilding the Hi-V board and fixing the deflection bd it > was time to cross my fingers and power that bad boy up. > The results were pretty... discouraging. The neck of the > tube was lit up like a neon sign. A nice shade of violet > I'll admit, but not what I was hoping for. The arcing is > happening in two places within the tube, on both ends of > the heater section. The Hi-V & deflection boards work fine > in my SW. > > The tube is an RCA 19VLTP22 and has an Amplifone P/N, not > an Atari P/N (200000-01 vs. 134004-001). The manual calls > out a 19VJTP22 but I'm assuming they're compatible. So, is > this tube recoverable? It's got very little burn-in so I'd > hate to toss it if I can eventually fix it. Any ideas are > welcome at this point. Thanks. From jess Fri Oct 1 17:10:39 1999 Received: from roper.uwyo.edu (pmdf@roper.uwyo.edu [129.72.10.8]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id RAA25514 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:10:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from asuwlink.uwyo.edu (asuwlink.uwyo.edu [129.72.60.2]) by ROPER.UWYO.EDU (PMDF V5.2-32 #33749) with ESMTP id <0FIY00DCG2GAJ3@ROPER.UWYO.EDU> for vectorlist ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:00:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from magenta.com (ras8721.uwyo.edu [129.72.87.21]) by asuwlink.uwyo.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA14383 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 1999 16:00:07 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 16:01:34 -0600 From: Jess Askey Subject: vector programming... To: vectorlist Message-id: <37F52F3E.BA2857EC > MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <3.0.1.16.19990901181708.19ef3812@pop.tiac.net> <199909012229.RAA26544 > <199909021501.KAA25761 > <199909021519.KAA28978 > <199909021536.KAA27957 > Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Since it seems that many people would be interested in writing new games for existing vector hardware Im thinking that I should just make my program much more flexible now instead of trying to backtrack later. Right now it is sort of customized for Williams Pinball Machine code and I was modifying it to also do Major Havoc hardware. I have some neat ideas but since Im *not* an excellent programmer it would take a quite a while to finish this up and make it 'OOPC' (object oriented politically correct). So I wanted to find out if anyone wants to help with the project. Here is what I thought would be nice to have.... 2 Pass Disassembler with hardware commenting Table based processor plug-ins (support for any processor) memory map plugins (for additional game hardware support) MAME-in-a-window Emulation (we would of course fix some of the MAME ignorances) Macro Assembler ( I have the source for TASM which is currently in DOS ) Library Management - Sounds, Graphics etc. I have some custom TMS5220 software that will also allow converting .wav files into RAW 5220 data, it would be pretty cool to be able to be able to just insert .wav files into your asm code. the possibilities are pretty endless, it just needs to be coded. :-) Anyone that is interested let me know and I will send you a .zip of the source. thanks for listening... From jmccorm Fri Oct 1 21:28:16 1999 Received: from galaxy.galstar.com (jmccorm [204.251.80.2]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id VAA05975 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:28:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jmccorm@localhost) by galaxy.galstar.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) id VAA25665; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:28:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Josh McCormick Posted-Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:28:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199910020228.VAA25665 > Subject: Re: vector programming... To: vectorlist Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:28:14 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <37F52F3E.BA2857EC > from "Jess Askey" at Oct 1, 99 04:01:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > 2 Pass Disassembler with hardware commenting I must say that I like this idea a lot. In fact, I like it so much that I *stole* it for my Tempest code documentation project. Users are not only able to add comments to the code, but to memory addresses (which includes hardware registers). When a line of code makes a reference to a known memory location, a yellow "i" image is dynamically added to the right of the address in the code listing. A "mouse-over" on the image currently gives the one-line description. A "click-on" will pull up the full entry for that memory address. To see the direction I am going: http://arcade.gameshop.com/136002.html [warning: 750k] A few comments have been added around A83E. Much more functionality needs to be added -- this the output of some of my development code. I hope to get the CGI finished this weekend. (Clicking on the "M" to the far left pulls up a CGI to modify the comments.) The original output of my CGI scripts used tables. That was quickly abandoned because, although it was pretty, a full source code listing was over 3MB, which took forever to load, and once loaded, it took a few minutes for a browser to interpret and display it. > Table based processor plug-ins (support for any processor) > memory map plugins (for additional game hardware support) > ... additional features ... Delicious. I'd love to make use of your project. -- jcm jmccorm From neil Fri Oct 1 21:38:03 1999 Received: from synthcom.com (beacon.synthcom.com [198.145.98.253]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id VAA06810 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:38:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from beacon.synthcom.com (beacon.synthcom.com [198.145.98.253] (may be forged)) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21340 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:50:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from neil ) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:50:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil Bradley To: vectorlist Subject: Re: vector programming... In-Reply-To: <199910020228.VAA25665 > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > > 2 Pass Disassembler with hardware commenting > I must say that I like this idea a lot. In fact, I like it so much that I > *stole* it for my Tempest code documentation project. Users are not only > able to add comments to the code, but to memory addresses (which includes > hardware registers). This sounds like a disassembler I wrote eons ago that actually does a code walkthrough. Here's a sample from an Asteroids dump: L7cfa: 7cfa ca DEX 7cfb 9d 00 03 STA $0300,X ; Player 2 RAM 7cfe 9d 00 02 STA $0200,X ; Player 1 RAM 7d01 9d 00 01 STA $0100,X ; Stack page 7d04 95 00 STA $00,X 7d06 d0 f2 BNE L7cfa 7d08 ac 07 20 LDY SELFTEST ; Self test 7d0b 30 43 BMI L7d50 7d0d e8 INX ..... ; ; Subroutine - 7 References ; ; Calling locations: ; ; $6f2b $6f32 $6f3b L7370 $74da $74ec $7f7e ; L7d45: 7d45 a0 00 LDY #$00 7d47 91 02 STA ($02,Y) 7d49 c8 INY 7d4a 8a TXA 7d4b 91 02 STA ($02,Y) 7d4d 4c 39 7c JMP L7c39 L7d50: 7d50 9d 00 40 STA $4000,X ; Vector RAM 7d53 9d 00 41 STA $4100,X ; Vector RAM 7d56 9d 00 42 STA $4200,X ; Vector RAM ;-) -->Neil ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neil Bradley Synthcom home : http://www.synthcom.com Synthcom Systems, Inc. C++ - Where you can make your privates public! ICQ # 29402898 Friends don't let newbie programmer friends do C++ From jmccorm Fri Oct 1 22:08:07 1999 Received: from galaxy.galstar.com (jmccorm [204.251.80.2]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id WAA09694 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:08:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jmccorm@localhost) by galaxy.galstar.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) id WAA26581; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:08:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Josh McCormick Posted-Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:08:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199910020308.WAA26581 > Subject: Re: vector programming... To: vectorlist Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:08:06 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Neil Bradley" at Oct 1, 99 07:50:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > This sounds like a disassembler I wrote eons ago that actually does a code > walkthrough. Here's a sample from an Asteroids dump: > 7d01 9d 00 01 STA $0100,X ; Stack page Hmmmm... had to comment on this line of code. Looks like Atari didn't respect the stack page as being holy. Maybe they figured that $0180-01FF was good enough to the stack. In pouring through the Tempest code, I see numerous game variables that are stored between $0100-0180. Have you seen the same thing w/Asteroids? From mgibson Fri Oct 1 22:42:49 1999 Received: from nextdim.com (nt1.nextdim.com [206.107.158.2]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with SMTP id WAA13073 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:42:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from default [206.107.158.161] by nextdim.com (SMTPD32-4.06) id AC15AA400D0; Fri, 01 Oct 1999 20:29:25 PST Message-ID: <007d01bf0c88$808d6960$a19e6bce@default> From: "Matthew Gibson" To: Subject: ESB Repros Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:44:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I just need to take two seconds out of the tech talk to mention the ESB graphics restoration project. I'm moving ahead on the printing and this is one last reminder that if you would like to receive a complete ESB repro graphics kit for $100 plus shipping, I need to know very soon! I need to make final preparations with the printer. The art and materials is incredible and I know you'll be pleased with the end result. Please e-mail me at mgibson with any questions or check out www.nextdim.com/users/mgibson/esbpage/esb.htm ! Thanks for listening and good luck with all the restoration projects! MG From neil Fri Oct 1 22:53:04 1999 Received: from synthcom.com (beacon.synthcom.com [198.145.98.253]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id WAA13985 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:53:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from beacon.synthcom.com (beacon.synthcom.com [198.145.98.253] (may be forged)) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21521 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:05:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from neil ) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:05:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil Bradley To: vectorlist Subject: Re: vector programming... In-Reply-To: <199910020308.WAA26581 > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > > This sounds like a disassembler I wrote eons ago that actually does a code > > walkthrough. Here's a sample from an Asteroids dump: > > 7d01 9d 00 01 STA $0100,X ; Stack page > Hmmmm... had to comment on this line of code. Looks like Atari didn't > respect the stack page as being holy. Maybe they figured that $0180-01FF > was good enough to the stack. In pouring through the Tempest code, I see > numerous game variables that are stored between $0100-0180. > Have you seen the same thing w/Asteroids? Oh yeah. The actual maximum function call depth of Asteroids is only around 30 calls at the deepest point. Couple that with the NMIs and push's you only have about 10 bytes more, so only 70 of the 255 bytes are used. Why not use the lower ones? ;-) -->Neil ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neil Bradley Synthcom home : http://www.synthcom.com Synthcom Systems, Inc. C++ - Where you can make your privates public! ICQ # 29402898 Friends don't let newbie programmer friends do C++ From msell Mon Oct 4 11:17:40 1999 Received: from BRIGADIER.ONTIMESUPPORT.COM ([216.88.70.226]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id LAA20376 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:17:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ix.netcom.com (216-118-25-82.pdq.net [216.118.25.82]) by BRIGADIER.ONTIMESUPPORT.COM (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16273 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:17:36 -0500 Message-ID: <37F8D31C.DAA3583A > Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:17:34 -0500 From: Matthew Sell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: vector programming... References: <3.0.1.16.19990901181708.19ef3812@pop.tiac.net> <199909012229.RAA26544 > <199909021501.KAA25761 > <199909021519.KAA28978 > <199909021536.KAA27957 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Jess, What can I do to help? - Matt Jess Askey wrote: > Since it seems that many people would be interested in writing new games for existing > vector hardware Im thinking that I should just make my program much more flexible now > instead of trying to backtrack later. Right now it is sort of customized for Williams > Pinball Machine code and I was modifying it to also do Major Havoc hardware. I have some > neat ideas but since Im *not* an excellent programmer it would take a quite a while to > finish this up and make it 'OOPC' (object oriented politically correct). So I wanted to > find out if anyone wants to help with the project. Here is what I thought would be nice to > have.... > 2 Pass Disassembler with hardware commenting > Table based processor plug-ins (support for any processor) > memory map plugins (for additional game hardware support) > MAME-in-a-window Emulation (we would of course fix some of the MAME ignorances) > Macro Assembler ( I have the source for TASM which is currently in DOS ) > Library Management - Sounds, Graphics etc. > I have some custom TMS5220 software that will also allow converting .wav files into RAW > 5220 data, it would be pretty cool to be able to be able to just insert .wav files into > your asm code. > > the possibilities are pretty endless, it just needs to be coded. :-) > Anyone that is interested let me know and I will send you a .zip of the source. > > thanks for listening... -- NOTICE: This program is sold by weight, not by volume. Some settling of code may have occurred during shipment. Always shake and recompile before using. Refrigerate after use. Expiration date and plant code are stamped in the registry. If you are not satisfied, promptly return any unused portion for refund. From jess Mon Oct 4 12:09:30 1999 Received: from roper.uwyo.edu (pmdf@roper.uwyo.edu [129.72.10.8]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id MAA00134 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:09:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from asuwlink.uwyo.edu (asuwlink.uwyo.edu [129.72.60.2]) by ROPER.UWYO.EDU (PMDF V5.2-32 #33749) with ESMTP id <0FJ30048Y8YJ2F@ROPER.UWYO.EDU> for vectorlist ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:08:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from magenta.com (ras8724.uwyo.edu [129.72.87.24]) by asuwlink.uwyo.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA17197 for ; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:08:40 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:10:14 -0600 From: Jess Askey Subject: Re: vector programming... To: vectorlist Message-id: <37F8DF76.77D829C3 > MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <3.0.1.16.19990901181708.19ef3812@pop.tiac.net> <199909012229.RAA26544 > <199909021501.KAA25761 > <199909021519.KAA28978 > <199909021536.KAA27957 > <37F8D31C.DAA3583A > Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Matthew Sell wrote: > > Jess, > > What can I do to help? Whatever you want. ;-) I can send you a copy of Borland C++ Builder V3.0 if you want as well. Borland will also compile MSVC++ code(AFAIK). Basically, I need someone to bounce ideas off of and figure out the best way to do this so it can be as modular as possible. I will try and get my code back to being able to at least compile and then I can send you the source if you want. One of the major things that I wanted to do was to put MAME into a window(TCanvas). Since MAME is written completely in C, Im not thinking that C++ will like it unless *everything* is converted into objects. Which is a rather large job. Another question that came up in my mind. Is whether I should just build upon existing MAME source or start anew. MAME has lots of the CPU modularity already done plus an integrated disassembler. I suppose just leaving MAME in DOS and making an assember/editor within it may be easier but working in Windows beats DOS. Ideas? thanks for getting back to me. jess > > - Matt > > Jess Askey wrote: > > > Since it seems that many people would be interested in writing new games for existing > > vector hardware Im thinking that I should just make my program much more flexible now > > instead of trying to backtrack later. Right now it is sort of customized for Williams > > Pinball Machine code and I was modifying it to also do Major Havoc hardware. I have some > > neat ideas but since Im *not* an excellent programmer it would take a quite a while to > > finish this up and make it 'OOPC' (object oriented politically correct). So I wanted to > > find out if anyone wants to help with the project. Here is what I thought would be nice to > > have.... > > 2 Pass Disassembler with hardware commenting > > Table based processor plug-ins (support for any processor) > > memory map plugins (for additional game hardware support) > > MAME-in-a-window Emulation (we would of course fix some of the MAME ignorances) > > Macro Assembler ( I have the source for TASM which is currently in DOS ) > > Library Management - Sounds, Graphics etc. > > I have some custom TMS5220 software that will also allow converting .wav files into RAW > > 5220 data, it would be pretty cool to be able to be able to just insert .wav files into > > your asm code. > > > > the possibilities are pretty endless, it just needs to be coded. :-) > > Anyone that is interested let me know and I will send you a .zip of the source. > > > > thanks for listening... > > -- > NOTICE: > > This program is sold by weight, not by volume. > Some settling of code may have occurred during shipment. > Always shake and recompile before using. > Refrigerate after use. > Expiration date and plant code are stamped in the registry. > If you are not satisfied, promptly return any unused portion for refund. From jess Mon Oct 4 12:21:39 1999 Received: from roper.uwyo.edu (pmdf@roper.uwyo.edu [129.72.10.8]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id MAA01679 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:21:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from asuwlink.uwyo.edu (asuwlink.uwyo.edu [129.72.60.2]) by ROPER.UWYO.EDU (PMDF V5.2-32 #33749) with ESMTP id <0FJ30048H9CGTP@ROPER.UWYO.EDU> for vectorlist ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:17:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from magenta.com (ras8724.uwyo.edu [129.72.87.24]) by asuwlink.uwyo.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA20257 for ; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:17:01 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:18:36 -0600 From: Jess Askey Subject: Re: vector programming... To: vectorlist Message-id: <37F8E16C.C9497BF1 > Organization: Random and Dispersed MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <3.0.1.16.19990901181708.19ef3812@pop.tiac.net> <199909012229.RAA26544 > <199909021501.KAA25761 > <199909021519.KAA28978 > <199909021536.KAA27957 > <37F8D31C.DAA3583A > Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN DOH!! Sorry everyone. I wasn't paying attention again. :-0 Jess Askey wrote: > > Matthew Sell wrote: > > > > Jess, > > > > What can I do to help? > > Whatever you want. ;-) I can send you a copy of Borland C++ Builder V3.0 if you want as > well. Borland will also compile MSVC++ code(AFAIK). > Basically, I need someone to bounce ideas off of and figure out the best way to do this > so it can be as modular as possible. I will try and get my code back to being able to at > least compile and then I can send you the source if you want. > One of the major things that I wanted to do was to put MAME into a window(TCanvas). > Since MAME is written completely in C, Im not thinking that C++ will like it unless > *everything* is converted into objects. Which is a rather large job. > Another question that came up in my mind. Is whether I should just build upon existing > MAME source or start anew. MAME has lots of the CPU modularity already done plus an > integrated disassembler. I suppose just leaving MAME in DOS and making an assember/editor > within it may be easier but working in Windows beats DOS. > Ideas? > > thanks for getting back to me. > jess > > > > - Matt > > > > Jess Askey wrote: > > > > > Since it seems that many people would be interested in writing new games for existing > > > vector hardware Im thinking that I should just make my program much more flexible now > > > instead of trying to backtrack later. Right now it is sort of customized for Williams > > > Pinball Machine code and I was modifying it to also do Major Havoc hardware. I have some > > > neat ideas but since Im *not* an excellent programmer it would take a quite a while to > > > finish this up and make it 'OOPC' (object oriented politically correct). So I wanted to > > > find out if anyone wants to help with the project. Here is what I thought would be nice to > > > have.... > > > 2 Pass Disassembler with hardware commenting > > > Table based processor plug-ins (support for any processor) > > > memory map plugins (for additional game hardware support) > > > MAME-in-a-window Emulation (we would of course fix some of the MAME ignorances) > > > Macro Assembler ( I have the source for TASM which is currently in DOS ) > > > Library Management - Sounds, Graphics etc. > > > I have some custom TMS5220 software that will also allow converting .wav files into RAW > > > 5220 data, it would be pretty cool to be able to be able to just insert .wav files into > > > your asm code. > > > > > > the possibilities are pretty endless, it just needs to be coded. :-) > > > Anyone that is interested let me know and I will send you a .zip of the source. > > > > > > thanks for listening... > > > > -- > > NOTICE: > > > > This program is sold by weight, not by volume. > > Some settling of code may have occurred during shipment. > > Always shake and recompile before using. > > Refrigerate after use. > > Expiration date and plant code are stamped in the registry. > > If you are not satisfied, promptly return any unused portion for refund. From atwilson Mon Oct 4 12:33:43 1999 Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail [24.0.2.66]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id MAA03491 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:33:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from KIMAGURE ([24.5.125.30]) by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991004173339.GGMU14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@KIMAGURE>; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:33:39 -0700 From: Andrew Wilson To: vectorlist CC: vectorlist In-reply-to: <37F8DF76.77D829C3 > (message from Jess Askey on Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:10:14 -0600) Subject: Re: vector programming... References: <3.0.1.16.19990901181708.19ef3812@pop.tiac.net> <199909012229.RAA26544 > <199909021501.KAA25761 > <199909021519.KAA28978 > <199909021536.KAA27957 > <37F8D31C.DAA3583A > Message-Id: <19991004173339.GGMU14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@KIMAGURE> Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:33:39 -0700 Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN >One of the major things that I wanted to do was to put MAME into a window >(TCanvas). Since MAME is written completely in C, Im not thinking that C++ >will like it unless *everything* is converted into objects. Which is a rather >large job. It's pretty trivial to link C source with C++ source - you don't have to do any conversion ; I did quite a bit of this on my last job. Just make liberal use of the 'extern "C"' directive when declaring your external functions, and link the object files together and you'll be just fine. That said, I think MAME is just *dying* to be rewritten in C++ - all those Machine/Driver structures and function tables are just C++ objects done the hard way. But I realize that's probably just my devoutly religious OO side talking ;-P >I suppose just leaving MAME in DOS and making an assember/editor >within it may be easier but working in Windows beats DOS. > Ideas? Does the Mame32 (Win-Mame) code not support the debugger/disassembler? It's been a year or so since I've dug around in the MAME source (I lost interest when I started collecting vids) so I don't quite remember how the debugger stuff was integrated. ObVector: I want to shower Roy (Chumblespuzz) with thanks for his Tempest rebuild kit. If you haven't bought one yet, DO IT(!), unless you are one of those deviants who likes a noisy, hard to turn spinner ;) I installed mine this morning, and it makes an incredible difference. Hey, Roy - I forget - are you thinking of doing Tempest CPO repros? Drew From aek Mon Oct 4 13:05:38 1999 Received: from spies.com (root [198.180.182.10]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with SMTP id NAA08754 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 13:05:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (851 bytes) by spies.com via send-mail with P:stdio/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp (sender: ) (ident using unix) id for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:05:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #18 built 1998-Oct-15) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:05:37 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: vector programming... Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN "That said, I think MAME is just *dying* to be rewritten in C++ - all those Machine/Driver structures and function tables are just C++ objects done the hard way." If that was all of the language that you used.. fine But no one ever does that. By the time you're done, you end up with a big fuzzball of mangled names that is a nightmare to debug. Contrary to programming wisdom of the 90's, plain old C is just fine, thank you. --al (20+ years of K&R) ps. yes, I'm back from vacation. didn't do much video game stuff, mostly was digging for 70's minicomputer docs/sw. Did find a few things at one stop I did make, though (S16 schems, Turkey Shoot manual, Lethan Enforcers schems) From peberh Mon Oct 4 13:07:19 1999 Received: from smtp04.nwnexus.com (smtp04.nwnexus.com [206.63.63.52]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id NAA08973 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 13:06:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from king.halcyon.com (peberh [206.63.63.10]) by smtp04.nwnexus.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA14636 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:06:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:06:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "Peter E." To: vectorlist Subject: Re: vector programming... In-Reply-To: <19991004173339.GGMU14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@KIMAGURE> Message-ID: X-No-Archive: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > >I suppose just leaving MAME in DOS and making an assember/editor > >within it may be easier but working in Windows beats DOS. > Does the Mame32 (Win-Mame) code not support the debugger/disassembler? > Yes, mame32 supports both the built-in mame debugger and using VC's debugger (even simultaneously). -Peter p.s. vector? uh i'm willing to accept free vector games? If anybody can point out bugs in MAME's vector emulation and/or provide more accurate emulations (like Clay was able to do w/ tempest multigame). The MAME team is willing and happy to take such info/code into the mainline source. (If possible use the latest and greatest source base when providing bug fixes/reports) (Usually just post links to the updates and descriptions of the problems and somebody will get them to the right people) From neil Mon Oct 4 13:08:21 1999 Received: from synthcom.com (beacon.synthcom.com [198.145.98.253]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id NAA09229 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 13:08:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from beacon.synthcom.com (beacon.synthcom.com [198.145.98.253] (may be forged)) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA31328 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:20:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from neil ) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:20:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil Bradley To: vectorlist Subject: Re: vector programming... In-Reply-To: <19991004173339.GGMU14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@KIMAGURE> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > That said, I think MAME is just *dying* to be rewritten in C++ - all > those Machine/Driver structures and function tables are just C++ objects done > the hard way. But I realize that's probably just my devoutly religious OO side > talking ;-P Object oriented programming is a programming methodology - not a language. You can write wonderfully object oriented code in C, and horribly unobject oriented (and obfuscated) code in C++. In fact, C++ tends to generate worse code because most people don't understand the side effects of the operations they use. The fact of the matter is 99.9% of people don't know when (or more importantly when not to) classify things in C++. They do it because it's "neat" or "trendy" - not because they're consciously making a decision to use a class wrapper, etc.. Sorry, but I've seen SOOOOO much C++ abuse in my professional career. I'm not down on C++ - it has its place. But the average Joe shouldn't even bother with the C++ constructs until they've solidified their foundation in C. C++ After all is a superset of the C language, and was originally a preprocessor to C. -->Neil ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neil Bradley Synthcom home : http://www.synthcom.com Synthcom Systems, Inc. C++ - Where you can make your privates public! ICQ # 29402898 Friends don't let newbie programmer friends do C++ From atwilson Mon Oct 4 14:13:15 1999 Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail [24.0.2.66]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id OAA28310 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:13:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from KIMAGURE ([24.5.125.30]) by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991004191313.GZUQ14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@KIMAGURE>; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:13:13 -0700 From: Andrew Wilson To: vectorlist CC: vectorlist In-reply-to: (message from Neil Bradley on Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:20:48 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: vector programming... References: Message-Id: <19991004191313.GZUQ14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@KIMAGURE> Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:13:13 -0700 Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN >Object oriented programming is a programming methodology - not a language. That's a helluva good point, and there's no doubt that MAME uses OO methodology. That's one of the reasons it's been able to survive as long as it has, with so many different programmers - a solid underlying modularity. My point was that a different language (C++ in particular) might make it easier (and less error prone) to do many of the things that MAME does manually (tables of functions, structures with manual initialization routines/huge explicit initializers, etc). If you don't believe me, then I dare you to add a field to the GameDriver structure - you'd have to manually update hundreds of files with explicit structure initialization. >The fact of the matter is 99.9% of people don't know when (or more >importantly when not to) classify things in C++. They do it because it's >"neat" or "trendy" - not because they're consciously making a decision >to use a class wrapper, etc.. > >Sorry, but I've seen SOOOOO much C++ abuse in my professional career. I'm >not down on C++ - it has its place. Yep, gotta agree there. My last job was porting a huge hunk of legacy code to the PSX (The X-Files Game). I saw it all (virtual functions in template classes, mammoth do-it-all-in-one-class APIs - a 2000 line implementation of a *Rectangle* class!, overloaded copy constructors with bad side effects) - to be fair, I also saw some pretty good design. But giving some people a C++ compiler is like letting a baby play with a gun. That said, there's a certain beauty to a properly implemented OO program. You can achieve it with any language (including C, which MAME does), but with some languages you just don't have to work quite so hard at it. Drew From neil Mon Oct 4 14:50:31 1999 Received: from synthcom.com (beacon.synthcom.com [198.145.98.253]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id OAA04587 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:50:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from beacon.synthcom.com (beacon.synthcom.com [198.145.98.253] (may be forged)) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31651 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 13:03:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from neil ) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 13:03:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil Bradley To: vectorlist Subject: Re: vector programming... In-Reply-To: <19991004191313.GZUQ14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@KIMAGURE> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > My point was that a different language (C++ in particular) might make > it easier (and less error prone) to do many of the things that MAME does > manually (tables of functions, structures with manual initialization > routines/huge explicit initializers, etc). If you don't believe me, then I > dare you to add a field to the GameDriver structure - you'd have to manually > update hundreds of files with explicit structure initialization. Well, I'd blame that on the implementation - not on the language. As someone who has authored a multi-game emulator, I do know there are better methods of organization. In Retrocade, to "plug in" a game to the main architecture, you modify 1 file. One section is a structure that contains platform information (as in Atari DVG, Atari System 1, etc..) and another section points to a game's list of ROMs and to that platform (hence the name 'platform extension'), so you can have several ROMsets point to the same platform. And yes, everything should be in a single, easy to manage place, not spread out to 10 different files. I bumped my head on this in the VERY early days of Retrocade development and rearchitechted to avoid that problem. I looked at C++, but found that it offered me nothing. I'm doing some of the same functions as C++ would do (such as constructors/destructors), but all I'd be doing is just using different syntax. It wouldn't gain me anything. > >Sorry, but I've seen SOOOOO much C++ abuse in my professional career. I'm > >not down on C++ - it has its place. > Yep, gotta agree there. My last job was porting a huge hunk of legacy > code to the PSX (The X-Files Game). I saw it all (virtual functions in template > classes, mammoth do-it-all-in-one-class APIs - a 2000 line implementation of > a *Rectangle* class!, overloaded copy constructors with bad side effects) - to > be fair, I also saw some pretty good design. But giving some people a C++ > compiler is like letting a baby play with a gun. Hence my .sig. ;-) Yeah, we had a guy that had a bit class which was encapsulated by a byte class encapsulated by a dword class encapsulated by a register class encapsulated by a operation class encapsulated by a chip class encapsulated by a chipset class. I shit you not. This was to write a single bit (or group of bits) in a chipset. Of course, what this mental giant didn't figure out is that performance meant everything in being able to generate tight traffic (chipset validation was the task) and his tests never found any bugs. Talking about someone not knowing when to (or not to) apply something! > That said, there's a certain beauty to a properly implemented OO > program. You can achieve it with any language (including C, which MAME does), > but with some languages you just don't have to work quite so hard at it. Hm.... well, I'm not sure I agree with you on the C/C++ thing. C++ Hides a few things and makes things like operator overloading and automatic variable assignment really handy and cleans up the formal parameters, but as a whole, most of C++ is just done "differently". C Certainly has its shortcomings. -->Neil ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neil Bradley Synthcom home : http://www.synthcom.com Synthcom Systems, Inc. C++ - Where you can make your privates public! ICQ # 29402898 Friends don't let newbie programmer friends do C++ From phkahler@Oakland.edu Mon Oct 4 16:23:13 1999 Received: from saturn4.acs.oakland.edu (saturn4.acs.oakland.edu [141.210.6.21]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id QAA20083 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:23:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from phkahler@localhost) by saturn4.acs.oakland.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA10119 for vectorlist ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:23:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199910042123.RAA10119@saturn4.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Vector Emulation To: vectorlist Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:23:45 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Peter E." at Oct 4, 99 11:06:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN All that talk about MAME reminded me of an idea I had a while back. Neil did a good job of antialiasing vectors in Retrocade, and if I'm not mistaken (I don't run any emulators at home - no time) I think MAME is doing that too these days. It occured to me that the best vector emulation would be to use some 3D card features: Use 2 texture maps: --==*==-- <-- a 1xN pixel map showing the vector "glow" - you'd stretch this vertically to the length of the line ----- <-- an endcap to place at each end of a vector which --------- includes the vector glow around the end ---===--- --=====-- --==*==-- You'd also need to render into some form of alpha buffer so overlap of the fringes would be addative rather than obstructing things. Of course you'd use the antialiasing capability of the card too! I suspect a proper implementation of this would go a long way toward making the B/W vector emulations look better. It doesn't address the trails you leave, but I suspect carefull use of alpha buffers could help (but 8 bits of alpha won't allow much precision in the decay). Hmmm, dump the last N frames into separate buffers and blend according to predefined formula... Hmmm tons of video RAM, but it could be an option for people with SGIs. Just needed to throw that one out there since I'll probably never do it. PS. does anyone have any really basic OpenGL code (for a 3DFX mini-driver?) to go to full screen 3D and draw a triangle or two?? This would help me with some other things I'm up to. Thanks, -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From atwilson Mon Oct 4 16:53:43 1999 Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail [24.0.2.66]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id QAA25489 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:53:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from KIMAGURE ([24.5.125.30]) by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991004215341.IDVD14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@KIMAGURE>; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:53:41 -0700 From: Andrew Wilson To: vectorlist CC: vectorlist In-reply-to: <199910042123.RAA10119@saturn4.acs.oakland.edu> (message from Paul Kahler on Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:23:45 -0500 (EDT)) Subject: Re: Vector Emulation References: <199910042123.RAA10119@saturn4.acs.oakland.edu> Message-Id: <19991004215341.IDVD14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@KIMAGURE> Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:53:42 -0700 Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN >I suspect a proper implementation of this would go a long way toward >making the B/W vector emulations look better. It doesn't address the >trails you leave, but I suspect carefull use of alpha buffers could >help (but 8 bits of alpha won't allow much precision in the decay). >Hmmm, dump the last N frames into separate buffers and blend according >to predefined formula... Hmmm tons of video RAM, but it could be an >option for people with SGIs. Maybe. Or just a single frame buffer whose contents "decay" to black over time with a simple pixel op (e.g. start with the last frame's image in the frame buffer, reduce it by doing (say) a 30% blend with black, then draw the current frame - this would cause lines to fade out over the subsequent 3 frames). This would seem to more closely model the behavior of real hardware, without requiring multiple frame buffers, and I think most 3D cards will do a single blend operation quite quickly). I'd be interested in seeing what the results of that decay + a 3D card's built-in anti-aliasing would produce. You could probably do the decay in MAME without using a 3D card, just by doing the decay op instead of clearing the frame buffer between frames. Drew From jmccorm Mon Oct 4 17:03:44 1999 Received: from galaxy.galstar.com (jmccorm [204.251.80.2]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id RAA27515 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:03:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jmccorm@localhost) by galaxy.galstar.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) id RAA12722 f0r vectorlist ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:03:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Josh McCormick Posted-Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:03:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199910042203.RAA12722 > Subject: Re: vector programming... To: vectorlist Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:03:41 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Neil Bradley" at Oct 4, 99 01:03:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > Well, I'd blame that on the implementation - not on the language. As > someone who has authored a multi-game emulator, I do know there are better > methods of organization. In Retrocade... Uh, oh. You shouldn't have said that! :) I looked around for the Retrocade source before trying to bug you. Do you have anything that gives an insight on how the EEPROM functions work for Tempest? The Mathbox? Also, Clay Cowgill mentioned a strange AVG routine that was not documented at: http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/games/vecops.txt . Anything you can add to that document? From neil Mon Oct 4 17:13:11 1999 Received: from synthcom.com (beacon.synthcom.com [198.145.98.253]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id RAA29522 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:13:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from beacon.synthcom.com (beacon.synthcom.com [198.145.98.253] (may be forged)) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA32115 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:25:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from neil ) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:25:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil Bradley To: vectorlist Subject: Re: vector programming... In-Reply-To: <199910042203.RAA12722 > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > > someone who has authored a multi-game emulator, I do know there are better > > methods of organization. In Retrocade... > Uh, oh. You shouldn't have said that! :) Yeah, I should've kept my big mouth shut. ;-( > I looked around for the Retrocade source before trying to bug you. You won't find it - hopefully. It's not publicly released. > Do you have anything that gives an insight on how the EEPROM functions > work for Tempest? The Mathbox? To what extent? I have some most excellent mathbox routines that Zonn Moore wrote: ftp://ftp.synthcom.com/pub/emulators/cpu/mathbox.asm The EEPROM stuff I have coded up but I can't remember how it works specifically since it has been so long since I did it. > Also, Clay Cowgill mentioned a strange AVG routine that was not documented > at: http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/games/vecops.txt . Anything you can add to > that document? That's a pretty old document, but the first thing that comes to mind is that a JMP to 0 is the same thing as a halt. Tempest added that "feature", and it drove me nuts for a week trying to get the emulation running. I also have other info on sparkle and operation of STATZ on a few games. Isn't this stuff documented in MAME? A good bit of AVG info I discovered wound up in its source. -->Neil ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neil Bradley Synthcom home : http://www.synthcom.com Synthcom Systems, Inc. C++ - Where you can make your privates public! ICQ # 29402898 Friends don't let newbie programmer friends do C++ From ClayC Mon Oct 4 17:20:54 1999 Received: from suprahwy.supra.com (suprahwy.supra.com [205.229.114.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id RAA04096 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:20:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by suprahwy.supra.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA21400 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:20:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from supra.com(dogbert.supra.com 10.11.0.21) by suprahwy.supra.com via smap (V2.0) from ; id xma021398; Mon, 4 Oct 99 15:20:44 -0700 Received: from vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com by dogbert.supra.com id aa19050; 4 Oct 99 15:20 PDT Received: by vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:20:43 -0700 Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist '" Subject: RE: vector programming... Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:20:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > Do you have anything that gives an insight on how the EEPROM functions > work for Tempest? The Mathbox? > I can help out on the EEPROM. I actually mapped out what all goes where... I'll look for the doc at home. (I had to figure it out to leech some EEPROM space for the V-breakout highscore in the Tempest Multigame. I have some sample code for reading and writing to the EEPROM too if you want it... > Also, Clay Cowgill mentioned a strange AVG routine that was not documented > at: http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/games/vecops.txt . Anything you can add to > that document? > MAME seemed to goof up on some types of vector draws-- it read a high-bit as a sign instead of the MSB of the length. The thing I couldn't figure out from Jess' doc was some sort of implied subroutine call or something. The Atari vector ROMs used it-- I wrote a little vector disassembler based on Jess' info that automatically mapped the Tempest character ROMs (I suppose I should give you that too) and there were some routines that my disassembler would miss. It seemed as though a "return" wasn't always a return and sometimes it would automagically go to the next routine in VROM. Weird stuff.) -Clay From zonn Mon Oct 4 17:21:35 1999 Received: from mail.propeller.com (IDENT:qmailr [204.216.217.130]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with SMTP id RAA04331 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:21:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 29338 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 22:21:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO phd-zonn.propeller.com) (139.85.201.239) by ns1.propeller.com with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 22:21:13 -0000 From: Zonn To: vectorlist Subject: Re: vector programming... Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 15:21:42 -0700 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: <199910042203.RAA12722 > X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu id RAA04413 Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:03:41 -0500 (CDT), you wrote: >> Well, I'd blame that on the implementation - not on the language. As >> someone who has authored a multi-game emulator, I do know there are better >> methods of organization. In Retrocade... > >Uh, oh. You shouldn't have said that! :) >I looked around for the Retrocade source before trying to bug you. > >Do you have anything that gives an insight on how the EEPROM functions >work for Tempest? The Mathbox? I wrote the Mathbox emulation for Retrocade. I thought that source was around the net somewhere, if not let me know and I could dig it up. I'm sure I could find some of the notes I made while reverse engineering the thing. -Zonn From ClayC Mon Oct 4 17:25:23 1999 Received: from suprahwy.supra.com (suprahwy.supra.com [205.229.114.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id RAA06478 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:25:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by suprahwy.supra.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA21461 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:25:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from supra.com(dogbert.supra.com 10.11.0.21) by suprahwy.supra.com via smap (V2.0) from ; id xma021459; Mon, 4 Oct 99 15:25:14 -0700 Received: from vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com by dogbert.supra.com id aa19352; 4 Oct 99 15:25 PDT Received: by vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:25:13 -0700 Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist '" Subject: RE: Vector Emulation Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:25:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > I'd be interested in seeing what the results of that decay + a > 3D card's built-in anti-aliasing would produce. You could probably do the > decay in MAME without using a 3D card, just by doing the decay op instead > of clearing the frame buffer between frames. > This jogged a memory for me-- didn't the Amiga have a couple of color monitors with long-persistance phosphors for it's interlaced display modes? The vertical resolution would probably be pretty low, but it might be fun to hook one up in a 640x240 MAME mode and see how the phosphor glow looks compared to a "real" B/W vector monitor. ;-) -Clay From jmccorm Mon Oct 4 17:49:51 1999 Received: from galaxy.galstar.com (jmccorm [204.251.80.2]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id RAA13324 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:49:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jmccorm@localhost) by galaxy.galstar.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) id RAA15201; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:49:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Josh McCormick Posted-Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:49:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199910042249.RAA15201 > Subject: Re: vector programming... To: vectorlist Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:49:49 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Neil Bradley" at Oct 4, 99 03:25:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > You won't find it - hopefully. It's not publicly released. > I also have other info on sparkle and operation of STATZ on a few games. > Isn't this stuff documented in MAME? A good bit of AVG info I discovered > wound up in its source. There's my problem. I double checked my download of the source for Mame 0.36 beta 5, and it seems to be missing quite a number of files under the vidhrdw directory (specifically, all the header files). Time to re d/l. Danke. From jess Mon Oct 4 17:51:45 1999 Received: from roper.uwyo.edu (pmdf@roper.uwyo.edu [129.72.10.8]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id RAA13465 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:51:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from asuwlink.uwyo.edu (asuwlink.uwyo.edu [129.72.60.2]) by ROPER.UWYO.EDU (PMDF V5.2-32 #33749) with ESMTP id <0FJ300CICOOWFW@ROPER.UWYO.EDU> for vectorlist ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:48:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from magenta.com (ras8933.uwyo.edu [129.72.89.33]) by asuwlink.uwyo.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA25586 for ; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 16:48:31 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 16:50:02 -0600 From: Jess Askey Subject: Re: Vector Emulation To: vectorlist Message-id: <37F92F1A.5CF472A2 > Organization: Random and Dispersed MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <199910042123.RAA10119@saturn4.acs.oakland.edu> <19991004215341.IDVD14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@KIMAGURE> Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Im not sure how it is done but the Geiss visual plug-in for WinAmp has line graphics (albeit more complex) that fade almost like a BW vector monitor, quite a bit slower even. Im not sure if it is done in bitmap RAM or something with the video card, but it looks nice. Andrew Wilson wrote: > > >I suspect a proper implementation of this would go a long way toward > >making the B/W vector emulations look better. It doesn't address the > >trails you leave, but I suspect carefull use of alpha buffers could > >help (but 8 bits of alpha won't allow much precision in the decay). > >Hmmm, dump the last N frames into separate buffers and blend according > >to predefined formula... Hmmm tons of video RAM, but it could be an > >option for people with SGIs. > > Maybe. Or just a single frame buffer whose contents "decay" to black > over time with a simple pixel op (e.g. start with the last frame's image in > the frame buffer, reduce it by doing (say) a 30% blend with black, then draw > the current frame - this would cause lines to fade out over the subsequent 3 > frames). This would seem to more closely model the behavior of real hardware, > without requiring multiple frame buffers, and I think most 3D cards will do > a single blend operation quite quickly). > > I'd be interested in seeing what the results of that decay + a > 3D card's built-in anti-aliasing would produce. You could probably do the > decay in MAME without using a 3D card, just by doing the decay op instead > of clearing the frame buffer between frames. > > Drew From zonn Mon Oct 4 17:51:48 1999 Received: from mail.propeller.com (IDENT:qmailr [204.216.217.130]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with SMTP id RAA13470 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:51:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 29357 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 22:51:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO phd-zonn.propeller.com) (139.85.201.239) by ns1.propeller.com with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 22:51:39 -0000 From: Zonn To: vectorlist Subject: Re: vector programming... Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 15:52:08 -0700 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu id RAA13483 Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:20:42 -0700 , you wrote: >MAME seemed to goof up on some types of vector draws-- it read a high-bit as >a sign instead of the MSB of the length. The thing I couldn't figure out > from Jess' doc was some sort of implied subroutine call or something. The >Atari vector ROMs used it-- I wrote a little vector disassembler based on >Jess' info that automatically mapped the Tempest character ROMs (I suppose I >should give you that too) and there were some routines that my disassembler >would miss. It seemed as though a "return" wasn't always a return and >sometimes it would automagically go to the next routine in VROM. Weird >stuff.) Oh yeah. I just remembered, I also wrote a disassembler for the vector generator (YAVGD - Yet Another Vector Generator Disassembler). I also wrote a vector viewer that allowed dumping the vector ROM to a DOS 640x480 graphic screen. It supported subroutines so it allowed dumping of things like the copyright notice etc. If I can find it, I'll send it to ya! (And anybody else interested.) -Zonn From jess Mon Oct 4 17:55:00 1999 Received: from roper.uwyo.edu (pmdf@roper.uwyo.edu [129.72.10.8]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id RAA14106 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:54:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from asuwlink.uwyo.edu (asuwlink.uwyo.edu [129.72.60.2]) by ROPER.UWYO.EDU (PMDF V5.2-32 #33749) with ESMTP id <0FJ300DCZOYI2M@ROPER.UWYO.EDU> for vectorlist ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:54:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from magenta.com (ras8933.uwyo.edu [129.72.89.33]) by asuwlink.uwyo.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA27910 for ; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 16:54:17 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 16:55:49 -0600 From: Jess Askey Subject: Re: vector programming... To: vectorlist Message-id: <37F93075.D4419A20 > Organization: Random and Dispersed MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I wrote a small vector data 'browser' called Aview that should work on Tempest. It is at http://www.gamearchive.com/video/general/hacking/programs/avrv/index.html If anyone wants the source, let me know. Im not too sure about the 'mystery' opcode tho. In major havoc the vector ROM 'rts' always returns. I haven't messed with tempest but it has the same state machine PROM as SD,G,BW,MH so they shouldn't be any different? jess Clay Cowgill wrote: > > > Do you have anything that gives an insight on how the EEPROM functions > > work for Tempest? The Mathbox? > > > I can help out on the EEPROM. I actually mapped out what all goes where... > I'll look for the doc at home. (I had to figure it out to leech some EEPROM > space for the V-breakout highscore in the Tempest Multigame. > > I have some sample code for reading and writing to the EEPROM too if you > want it... > > > Also, Clay Cowgill mentioned a strange AVG routine that was not documented > > at: http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/games/vecops.txt . Anything you can add to > > that document? > > > MAME seemed to goof up on some types of vector draws-- it read a high-bit as > a sign instead of the MSB of the length. The thing I couldn't figure out > from Jess' doc was some sort of implied subroutine call or something. The > Atari vector ROMs used it-- I wrote a little vector disassembler based on > Jess' info that automatically mapped the Tempest character ROMs (I suppose I > should give you that too) and there were some routines that my disassembler > would miss. It seemed as though a "return" wasn't always a return and > sometimes it would automagically go to the next routine in VROM. Weird > stuff.) > > -Clay From jess Mon Oct 4 17:59:11 1999 Received: from roper.uwyo.edu (pmdf@roper.uwyo.edu [129.72.10.8]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id RAA14796 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:59:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from asuwlink.uwyo.edu (asuwlink.uwyo.edu [129.72.60.2]) by ROPER.UWYO.EDU (PMDF V5.2-32 #33749) with ESMTP id <0FJ300D74P4JWL@ROPER.UWYO.EDU> for vectorlist ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:57:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from magenta.com (ras8933.uwyo.edu [129.72.89.33]) by asuwlink.uwyo.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA29225 for ; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 16:57:54 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 16:59:26 -0600 From: Jess Askey Subject: Re: vector programming... To: vectorlist Message-id: <37F9314E.EA6ABC72 > Organization: Random and Dispersed MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Neil Bradley wrote: > That's a pretty old document, but the first thing that comes to mind is > that a JMP to 0 is the same thing as a halt. Tempest added that "feature", > and it drove me nuts for a week trying to get the emulation running. Heh! I wrote that doc about 6 months after getting my first computer. I should have mentioned that the ending note of... 'more info soon...' was dependent on me staying a teenager forever when I didn't have any responsibilities. :-) From zonn Mon Oct 4 18:12:25 1999 Received: from mail.propeller.com (IDENT:qmailr [204.216.217.130]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with SMTP id SAA16758 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:12:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 29367 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 23:12:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO phd-zonn.propeller.com) (139.85.201.239) by ns1.propeller.com with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 23:12:21 -0000 From: Zonn To: vectorlist Subject: Re: vector programming... Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 16:12:51 -0700 Message-ID: References: <3.0.1.16.19990901181708.19ef3812 @KIMAGURE> In-Reply-To: <19991004173339.GGMU14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@KIMAGURE> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu id SAA16759 Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:33:39 -0700, you wrote: >ObVector: I want to shower Roy (Chumblespuzz) with thanks for his Tempest >rebuild kit. If you haven't bought one yet, DO IT(!), unless you are one of >those deviants who likes a noisy, hard to turn spinner ;) I installed mine >this morning, and it makes an incredible difference. I saw that kit, and it looks very cool. Had I not already re-engineered my spinners I'd buy those inserts. FWIW: I found some old servo motors in surplus, with a very long 1/4 inch shafts. The servos used precision bearing on both sides of the motor. By taking them apart I could easily remove the encoder from one end, then using a heat gun I removed the motor windings. Then using a hammer I smashed up the magnets on the motor shaft. I then put the whole thing back together. The motors fit perfectly over the plate on the bottom of the spinner's bracket so the whole thing could be installed without making any changes to the spinner itself. So now I have a Tempest spinner that spins on precision servo bearings. The cabaret Tempest sits just outside my office (doesn't everyone's employers allow them to bring their games into work? ;^). I just gave the knob a spin and it spins for one minute and 10 seconds before coming to a halt, it's nearly silent while it spins. Way cool! -Zonn From ClayC Mon Oct 4 18:15:28 1999 Received: from suprahwy.supra.com (suprahwy.supra.com [205.229.114.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id SAA17246 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:15:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by suprahwy.supra.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA21991 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:15:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from supra.com(dogbert.supra.com 10.11.0.21) by suprahwy.supra.com via smap (V2.0) from ; id xma021988; Mon, 4 Oct 99 16:15:05 -0700 Received: from vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com by dogbert.supra.com id aa22158; 4 Oct 99 16:15 PDT Received: by vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:15:03 -0700 Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist '" Subject: RE: vector programming... Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:15:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > I wrote a small vector data 'browser' called Aview that should work on > Tempest. It is at > http://www.gamearchive.com/video/general/hacking/programs/avrv/index.html > Yep, I used it to verify that the Atari AVG output from my vector-editor was working... :-) > Im not too sure about the 'mystery' opcode tho. In major havoc the vector > ROM > 'rts' always returns. I haven't messed with tempest but it has the same > state > machine PROM as SD,G,BW,MH so they shouldn't be any different? > Boy, I wish this would have come up for discussion a few months ago when this was all fresh in my mind still. :-/ I doubt I'll have time to dig into it much, but the basic situation was something like the return opcode not seeming to return and instead running into the next set of vectors. (I could be wrong, but it might have been where there was a tanker with a pulsar in it?) By hand-disassembling the shape using Jess' opcode doc it seemed that the routine should return after drawing the first shape, but instead would continue on to the next. Maybe it was late and I was just "not getting it", but I remember scratching my head for some time trying to figure out what the hell was going on and never being able to figure it out from the docs I had on hand. Maybe it was spiker related-- seems like I ended up copying the spikers into my ROM image instead of the Tempest VROMs because of something weird... *sigh*... -Clay From ClayC Mon Oct 4 18:22:00 1999 Received: from suprahwy.supra.com (suprahwy.supra.com [205.229.114.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id SAA18199 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:21:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by suprahwy.supra.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA22072 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:21:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from supra.com(dogbert.supra.com 10.11.0.21) by suprahwy.supra.com via smap (V2.0) from ; id xma022068; Mon, 4 Oct 99 16:21:43 -0700 Received: from vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com by dogbert.supra.com id aa22613; 4 Oct 99 16:21 PDT Received: by vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:21:41 -0700 Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist '" Subject: RE: vector programming... Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:21:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > Hmmmm... had to comment on this line of code. Looks like Atari didn't > respect the stack page as being holy. Maybe they figured that $0180-01FF > was good enough to the stack. In pouring through the Tempest code, I see > numerous game variables that are stored between $0100-0180. > Hee-hee... Just saw this. Yeah, that "reserved for stack" is really more like one of those yellow "warning" signs on a curve, people can and do exceed it if you're careful and know what the code really does... ;-) When you want to annoy hackers trying to follow your code doing indirect writes to the stack and then RTS'ing out into new routines is pretty entertaining... Actually, I think the IRQ in Tempest has something of an un-intentional recursion catcher built-in. Look for some funky-ness with a HALT instruction a few lines into it. -Clay From ClayC Mon Oct 4 18:24:04 1999 Received: from suprahwy.supra.com (suprahwy.supra.com [205.229.114.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id SAA18585 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:23:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by suprahwy.supra.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA22093 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:23:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from supra.com(dogbert.supra.com 10.11.0.21) by suprahwy.supra.com via smap (V2.0) from ; id xma022087; Mon, 4 Oct 99 16:23:34 -0700 Received: from vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com by dogbert.supra.com id aa22638; 4 Oct 99 16:23 PDT Received: by vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:23:32 -0700 Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist '" Subject: RE: vector programming... Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:23:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > I just gave the knob a spin and it spins for one minute and 10 seconds > before coming to a halt > Uh-oh... I sense a new, obscure contest taking form... ;-) -Clay From Burbs1@concentric.net Mon Oct 4 20:03:59 1999 Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.198.79]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id UAA01251 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:03:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mcfeely.concentric.net (mcfeely.concentric.net [207.155.198.83]) by darius.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/12/15 5.12)) id VAA10496; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:03:57 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Errors-To: Received: from concentric.net (ts016d31.par-nj.concentric.net [216.112.171.43]) by mcfeely.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id VAA28966; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:03:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37F94E8D.5B799426@concentric.net> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 21:04:13 -0400 From: Mark E Davidson Reply-To: vectorlist X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Vector Emulation References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Commodores 1084s and 1950 / 1960 monitors were not long-persistance phosphors monitors That's why the flicker fixer was such a hit. I do think Sony offered a long-persistance phosphors around that time but Im not 100% sure. I still have all 10 of my Amigas running right here next to me! -=Mark=-- Clay Cowgill wrote: > > I'd be interested in seeing what the results of that decay + a > > 3D card's built-in anti-aliasing would produce. You could probably do the > > decay in MAME without using a 3D card, just by doing the decay op instead > > of clearing the frame buffer between frames. > > > This jogged a memory for me-- didn't the Amiga have a couple of color > monitors with long-persistance phosphors for it's interlaced display modes? > The vertical resolution would probably be pretty low, but it might be fun to > hook one up in a 640x240 MAME mode and see how the phosphor glow looks > compared to a "real" B/W vector monitor. ;-) > > -Clay From neil Mon Oct 4 20:08:04 1999 Received: from synthcom.com (beacon.synthcom.com [198.145.98.253]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id UAA01818 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:08:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from beacon.synthcom.com (beacon.synthcom.com [198.145.98.253] (may be forged)) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA32658 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:20:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from neil ) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:20:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil Bradley To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Vector Emulation In-Reply-To: <37F94E8D.5B799426@concentric.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > Commodores 1084s and 1950 / 1960 monitors were not long-persistance phosphors > monitors > That's why the flicker fixer was such a hit. I do think Sony offered a > long-persistance phosphors around that time but Im not 100% sure. > I still have all 10 of my Amigas running right here next to me! Or the 12" IBM Green Screen monochrome monitors. Those things had a horribly long decay rate - perfect for vectors. Hm... where's my MDA card.. -->Neil ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neil Bradley Synthcom home : http://www.synthcom.com Synthcom Systems, Inc. C++ - Where you can make your privates public! ICQ # 29402898 Friends don't let newbie programmer friends do C++ From phkahler@Oakland.edu Tue Oct 5 08:04:38 1999 Received: from saturn4.acs.oakland.edu (saturn4.acs.oakland.edu [141.210.6.21]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id IAA18663 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:04:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from phkahler@localhost) by saturn4.acs.oakland.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA27660 for vectorlist ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:05:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199910051305.JAA27660@saturn4.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Vector Emulation To: vectorlist Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:05:09 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <19991004215341.IDVD14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@KIMAGURE> from "Andrew Wilson" at Oct 4, 99 02:53:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > >I suspect a proper implementation of this would go a long way toward > >making the B/W vector emulations look better. It doesn't address the > >trails you leave, but I suspect carefull use of alpha buffers could > >help (but 8 bits of alpha won't allow much precision in the decay). > >Hmmm, dump the last N frames into separate buffers and blend according > >to predefined formula... Hmmm tons of video RAM, but it could be an > >option for people with SGIs. > > Maybe. Or just a single frame buffer whose contents "decay" to black > over time with a simple pixel op (e.g. start with the last frame's image in > the frame buffer, reduce it by doing (say) a 30% blend with black, then draw > the current frame - this would cause lines to fade out over the subsequent 3 > frames). This would seem to more closely model the behavior of real hardware, > without requiring multiple frame buffers, and I think most 3D cards will do > a single blend operation quite quickly). A fixed percentage each frame was my first thought, but that gives a nice exponential decay and I'm not so sure that's the right characteristic... Also, to do it right you should have more than 8 bits per pixel. Remember you want *seconds* of persistence on Asteroids - that's a lot of frames to persist through :-) The main thing I wanted to get someone working on was texture mapping the "glow" around the vectors. Now that I think of it, that could also be used to "defocus" the beam for those fuzzy Star Wars vectors. There I go thinkin' again... BTW, finding an old high persistence monitor is not my idea of the correct solution. I want 1600x1200 with the texture mapping AND decay, that should look *better* than the real thing - except for the brightness of the bullets... Just can't win can you? Hey, this is the most vectory stuff I've posted in a while :-) -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From ClayC Tue Oct 5 11:47:16 1999 Received: from suprahwy.supra.com (suprahwy.supra.com [205.229.114.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id LAA24066 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:47:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by suprahwy.supra.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA00134 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from supra.com(dogbert.supra.com 10.11.0.21) by suprahwy.supra.com via smap (V2.0) from ; id xma000127; Tue, 5 Oct 99 09:46:51 -0700 Received: from vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com by dogbert.supra.com id aa22020; 5 Oct 99 9:46 PDT Received: by vanmail3.van.diamondmm.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:46:50 -0700 Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist '" Subject: RE: Vector Emulation Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:46:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > BTW, finding an old high persistence monitor is not my idea of the > correct solution. I want 1600x1200 with the texture mapping AND decay, > that > should look *better* than the real thing - except for the brightness of > the > bullets... Just can't win can you? > Of course you could also just open up the monitor, turn up the screen drive as much as it'll go without raising the black level, detune the focus a bit, and then crank the contrast control all the way over. :-) VGA-type color monitors are meant to produce good *quality* images-- not really the same settings that you want for an 80's vector game. If someone has *way* too much time on their hands-- go modify the MAME source to calculate the amount of vector energy drawn "offscreen" (past the clipping area I suppose) and then re-apply a function of it to the overall screen brightness. Recreate that "flashing" screen when you're hit. I'll be seriously impressed if anyone can ever make a raster monitor look as "cool" as a real color vector though-- just something about those big, slow color vectors being drawn just under the burn-limit on the phosphors... I doubt you could deliver enough energy to the phosphors over a given period of time to get the same effect w/ a raster display. Well, without voiding the warranty on the monitor anyway. ;-) -Clay From aek Tue Oct 5 16:26:58 1999 Received: from spies.com (root [198.180.182.10]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with SMTP id QAA12317 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:26:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (274 bytes) by spies.com via send-mail with P:stdio/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp (sender: ) (ident using unix) id for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:26:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #18 built 1998-Oct-15) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:26:58 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: arcade ICE Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hadn't looked at Chris' page for a while. There is a picture of the board up there now http://science.ntu.ac.uk/staff/cmt/iceii.htm From neil Tue Oct 5 16:39:12 1999 Received: from synthcom.com (beacon.synthcom.com [198.145.98.253]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id QAA14058 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:39:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from beacon.synthcom.com (beacon.synthcom.com [198.145.98.253] (may be forged)) by synthcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA35796 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:51:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from neil ) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:51:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil Bradley To: vectorlist Subject: Re: arcade ICE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > Hadn't looked at Chris' page for a while. There is a picture > of the board up there now What exactly does this board do? -->Neil ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neil Bradley Synthcom home : http://www.synthcom.com Synthcom Systems, Inc. C++ - Where you can make your privates public! ICQ # 29402898 Friends don't let newbie programmer friends do C++ From aek Tue Oct 5 17:03:26 1999 Received: from spies.com (root [198.180.182.10]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with SMTP id RAA17744 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:03:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (471 bytes) by spies.com via send-mail with P:stdio/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp (sender: ) (ident using unix) id for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:03:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #18 built 1998-Oct-15) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:03:25 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Re: arcade ICE Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN "What exactly does this board do?" It is a device to simulate the processor in a game board by wiggling signals. Chris used a microprocessor to do this. It also can drive the signals on a game board edge connector, to test things like control inputs. It was started a while ago, and would be similar in use to the R.A.T. box. From aek Wed Oct 6 00:52:59 1999 Received: from spies.com (root [198.180.182.10]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with SMTP id AAA15435 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:52:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (454 bytes) by spies.com via send-mail with P:stdio/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp (sender: ) (ident using unix) id for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:52:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #18 built 1998-Oct-15) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:52:58 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Fluke 9010 tapes Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I suspect the drives were made by Braemar. I don't need any right now, but here is their adr if someone wants to try to find some blank tapes. Braemar, Inc. 11481 Rupp Drive Burnsville, MN 55337 Phone: (612) 890-5135 FAX: (612) 882-6550 E-mail: Braemar Contact: Stanley Borman, President From Ahowald@bilbo.w-link.net Wed Oct 6 02:37:39 1999 Received: from bilbo.w-link.net (bilbo.w-link.net [206.98.114.20]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id CAA29825 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 02:37:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from aarons (dial029.w-link.net [206.98.114.58]) by bilbo.w-link.net (8.9.0/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA23003 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:37:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001701bf0fc9$0b94af80$3a7262ce@aarons> From: "Aaron Howald" To: References: <199910051305.JAA27660@saturn4.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Vector Emulation Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:04:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kahler To: Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 7:05 AM Subject: Re: Vector Emulation > A fixed percentage each frame was my first thought, but that gives a nice > exponential decay and I'm not so sure that's the right characteristic... > Also, to do it right you should have more than 8 bits per pixel. Remember > you want *seconds* of persistence on Asteroids - that's a lot of frames to > persist through :-) The main thing I wanted to get someone working on was > texture mapping the "glow" around the vectors. Now that I think of it, that > could also be used to "defocus" the beam for those fuzzy Star Wars vectors. > There I go thinkin' again... Funny you should mention foucus... :*) (A bit open-ended, I know, but all will be revealed soon...) > > BTW, finding an old high persistence monitor is not my idea of the > correct solution. I want 1600x1200 with the texture mapping AND decay, that > should look *better* than the real thing - except for the brightness of the > bullets... Just can't win can you? > > Hey, this is the most vectory stuff I've posted in a while :-) Same here!! Aaron Howald ahowald@w-link.net > -- > ___ __ _ _ _ > | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer > | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? > |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. > > From mayday19@idt.net Wed Oct 6 04:47:16 1999 Received: from u2.farm.idt.net (mayday19@u2.farm.idt.net [169.132.8.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id EAA04286 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 04:47:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost by u2.farm.idt.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA07204 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 05:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 05:47:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Anderson X-Sender: mayday19@u2.farm.idt.net To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Fluke 9010 tapes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN If anybody is interested I can probably bug them, they're about 10 miles from me.. On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, Al Kossow wrote: > > I suspect the drives were made by Braemar. I don't need any right > now, but here is their adr if someone wants to try to find some blank > tapes. > > Braemar, Inc. > > 11481 Rupp Drive > Burnsville, MN 55337 > Phone: (612) 890-5135 > FAX: (612) 882-6550 > E-mail: Braemar > Contact: > Stanley Borman, President > > From twisnion Wed Oct 6 09:10:49 1999 Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with SMTP id JAA28148 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:10:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 93021 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 14:10:46 -0000 Received: from 207-229-148-68.d.enteract.com (HELO tomwiz) (207.229.148.68) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 14:10:46 -0000 Message-ID: <004301bf1005$0a76c520$ea28a8c0@tomwiz> From: "TomW" To: Subject: Re: Fluke 9010 tapes Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:02:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I've been looking for these tapes, seems like no one carries them locally, and none of the commercialy manuf 'mini' tapes fit. Put me down for some... TomW > >If anybody is interested I can probably bug them, they're about 10 miles >from me.. > >On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, Al Kossow wrote: >> >> I suspect the drives were made by Braemar. I don't need any right >> now, but here is their adr if someone wants to try to find some blank >> tapes. >> >> Braemar, Inc. >> >> 11481 Rupp Drive >> Burnsville, MN 55337 >> Phone: (612) 890-5135 >> FAX: (612) 882-6550 >> E-mail: Braemar >> Contact: >> Stanley Borman, President >> >> > > From jrr Wed Oct 6 10:18:59 1999 Received: from server8000.net ([209.239.41.23]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id KAA14445 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:18:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cr689357-a (cr689357-a.crdva1.bc.wave.home.com [24.113.14.85]) by server8000.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20862 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:19:07 -0500 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991006081802.00b743f0 > X-Sender: jrr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 08:18:44 -0700 To: vectorlist From: John Robertson Subject: Re: Fluke 9010 tapes In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I'd be interested in a few tapes, but isn't it just as easy to store the info over the serial port? John :-#)# At 05:47 AM 10/6/1999 -0400, you wrote: >If anybody is interested I can probably bug them, they're about 10 miles >from me.. > >On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, Al Kossow wrote: > > > > I suspect the drives were made by Braemar. I don't need any right > > now, but here is their adr if someone wants to try to find some blank > > tapes. > > > > Braemar, Inc. > > > > 11481 Rupp Drive > > Burnsville, MN 55337 > > Phone: (612) 890-5135 > > FAX: (612) 882-6550 > > E-mail: Braemar > > Contact: > > Stanley Borman, President > > > > John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From tomm Wed Oct 6 10:55:17 1999 Received: from wodc7mr4.ffx.ops.us.uu.net (wodc7mr4.ffx.ops.us.uu.net [192.48.96.29]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id KAA19813 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:55:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mgcap.com by wodc7mr4.ffx.ops.us.uu.net with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: [208.248.241.145]) id QQhjtv09012 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:54:08 GMT Message-ID: <37FB70D6.5B53B323 > Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:55:02 -0500 From: tom mcclintock Organization: MG Capital X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Deflection cooling References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Since I just had a new back door cut for my Space Duel, I thought it would be an ideal time to cut air holes in the door for the HV and deflection boards. I additionally want to add a cooling fan and was wondering if (1) a CPU cooling fan would provide sufficient airflow and (2) where the optimal place to grab power for the fan would be? Any suggestions are certainly appreciated. tom From aek Wed Oct 6 11:30:30 1999 Received: from spies.com (root [198.180.182.10]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with SMTP id LAA24252 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:30:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (300 bytes) by spies.com via send-mail with P:stdio/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp (sender: ) (ident using unix) id for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:30:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #18 built 1998-Oct-15) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:30:14 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Braemar tape part number Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I dug through the Fluke tapes that I have, and found one that had a Braemar label on it "Certified Mini Data Cassette" "CMC50" labeled as 50Ft From atwilson Wed Oct 6 11:44:07 1999 Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail [24.0.2.66]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id LAA26665 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:44:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from KIMAGURE ([24.5.125.30]) by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991006164404.XXDB14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@KIMAGURE> for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:44:04 -0700 From: Andrew Wilson To: vectorlist In-reply-to: <37FB70D6.5B53B323 > (message from tom mcclintock on Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:55:02 -0500) Subject: Re: Deflection cooling References: Message-Id: <19991006164404.XXDB14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@KIMAGURE> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:44:04 -0700 Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN For my Ast. Deluxe, I bought an AC fan, and just ran it straight off the AC line (I spliced it in right after the back door switch). You could use a PC Case fan (seems like a CPU fan might be too small), but I didn't want to put a DC fan in there and have to draw more power from the DC power supply... Radio Shack has a couple AC fans - Part #273-242 and #273-241. Drew Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:55:02 -0500 From: tom mcclintock Organization: MG Capital Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Since I just had a new back door cut for my Space Duel, I thought it would be an ideal time to cut air holes in the door for the HV and deflection boards. I additionally want to add a cooling fan and was wondering if (1) a CPU cooling fan would provide sufficient airflow and (2) where the optimal place to grab power for the fan would be? Any suggestions are certainly appreciated. tom From msell Wed Oct 6 11:53:24 1999 Received: from BRIGADIER.ONTIMESUPPORT.COM ([216.88.70.226]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id LAA27820 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:53:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ix.netcom.com ([216.88.70.227]) by BRIGADIER.ONTIMESUPPORT.COM (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA09918 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:53:21 -0500 Message-ID: <37FB7E7E.D49E43DA > Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 11:53:19 -0500 From: Matthew Sell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Deflection cooling References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Tom, If you're going to add more cooling capacity to the door, you may want to think about providing a way to mount air filters as well so that the fans draw in clean air. Good time to do it..... : ) - Matt tom mcclintock wrote: > Since I just had a new back door cut for my Space Duel, I thought it would be > an ideal time to cut air holes in the door for the HV and deflection boards. > I additionally want to add a cooling fan and was wondering if (1) a CPU > cooling fan would provide sufficient airflow and (2) where the optimal place > to grab power for the fan would be? > > Any suggestions are certainly appreciated. > tom -- NOTICE: This program is sold by weight, not by volume. Some settling of code may have occurred during shipment. Always shake and recompile before using. Refrigerate after use. Expiration date and plant code are stamped in the registry. If you are not satisfied, promptly return any unused portion for refund. From jmccorm Wed Oct 6 12:40:15 1999 Received: from galaxy.galstar.com (jmccorm [204.251.80.2]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id MAA04461 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:40:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jmccorm@localhost) by galaxy.galstar.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) id MAA25817; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:40:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Josh McCormick Posted-Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:40:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199910061740.MAA25817 > Subject: Tempest Code Project vs Tempest Hardware Programming To: vectorlist Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:40:10 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <19991006164404.XXDB14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@KIMAGURE> from "Andrew Wilson" at Oct 6, 99 09:44:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN FYI -- We've split the baby. Thanks to some great submissions (that means YOU, Clay), there's a branch in the Tempest Code Project. It is now comprised of two parts: http://arcade.gameshop.com/tempest-sw "Tempest Code Project" This is the original project which sets out to document the entire code for Tempest from top to bottom. I reorganized the pages around so its much easier to wade through. Source code, notes, memory locations, and general code locations are now on seperate pages. http://arcade.gameshop.com/tempest-hw "Tempest Hardware Programming" Facts, charts, diagrams, rumor, induendo, and outright lies for use in programming new software for the Tempest hardware. Things like how to work the EAROM, cool Pokey tricks (did you know it has a 4 bit D-A converter for playback of digitized sounds?), that kind of thing. New area here, so it'll take a few days to build something good. From lebeau@u.washington.edu Wed Oct 6 12:51:36 1999 Received: from jason05.u.washington.edu (root@jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id MAA06123 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:51:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from homer14.u.washington.edu (lebeau@homer14.u.washington.edu [140.142.70.15]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.09/8.9.3+UW99.09) with ESMTP id KAA29876 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:51:34 -0700 Received: from localhost (lebeau@localhost) by homer14.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.09/8.9.3+UW99.09) with ESMTP id KAA50898 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:51:33 -0700 Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:51:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Dave George To: vectorlist Subject: Hello, and locales? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hey there, just signed onto the list. I hope to glean a lot of information from you all, don't know if I'll have any to provide or not. =) Right off the bat, I was wondering how many of you (if any) are in the PNW, Greater Seattle area? I'd love to have some local help on a few things. Later, thanks for the interrupt. Remy LeBeau The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. From jwelser Wed Oct 6 13:25:01 1999 Received: from piglet.cc.utexas.edu (jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu [128.83.42.61]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id NAA16111 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:24:59 -0500 (CDT) From: jwelser Received: from localhost (jwelser@localhost) by piglet.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/piglet.mc-1.10) with ESMTP id NAA06877 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:24:57 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:24:57 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Deflection cooling In-Reply-To: <37FB70D6.5B53B323 > Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Wed, 6 Oct 1999, tom mcclintock wrote: > Since I just had a new back door cut for my Space Duel, I thought it would be > an ideal time to cut air holes in the door for the HV and deflection boards. > I additionally want to add a cooling fan and was wondering if (1) a CPU > cooling fan would provide sufficient airflow and (2) where the optimal place > to grab power for the fan would be? Tom, I doubt a CPU cooling fan would be good enough. Where you get the power from depends upon the voltage of the fan. Most come in one of 2 varieties: 120V or 12V. I would suggest 120V becuase they are usually bigger and move more air, and you can just tap into the 120V line voltage (be careful.) Joe From chris Wed Oct 6 13:30:03 1999 Received: from westnet.com (chris [206.24.6.2]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id NAA18981 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:29:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by westnet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA21174 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:29:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:29:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Deflection cooling In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN On Wed, 6 Oct 1999 jwelser wrote: > Where you get the power from depends upon the voltage of the > fan. Most come in one of 2 varieties: 120V or 12V. I would suggest 120V > becuase they are usually bigger and move more air, and you can just tap > into the 120V line voltage (be careful.) You can also just make a Y cable for the florecent jack, or an existing fan, and not actually cut the wiring at all. -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From computerspace Wed Oct 6 15:17:44 1999 Received: from hotmail.com (law-f160.hotmail.com [209.185.131.223]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with SMTP id PAA06772 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:17:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 5634 invoked by uid 0); 6 Oct 1999 20:17:06 -0000 Message-ID: <19991006201706.5633.qmail > Received: from 207.12.83.85 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 13:17:05 PDT X-Originating-IP: [207.12.83.85] From: "Tom Cloud" To: vectorlist Subject: Re: Deflection cooling Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 13:17:05 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN In my Star Wars, and Space Wars, I have a 3" ac fan blowing on the deflection boards/deflection transistors. Then I also have a 5" ac fan sucking all that warmed air out of the cab. There is alot of air moving around in them now. I also plan on doing similar mods to my Lunar Lander, Battlezone and Star Trek. I connect them to the power cut off switches on the back doors to the main power switch controls them. When the game is off, the fans are off as well. Regards, Tom Cloud From: Andrew Wilson >Reply-To: vectorlist >To: vectorlist >Subject: Re: Deflection cooling >Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:44:04 -0700 > > For my Ast. Deluxe, I bought an AC fan, and just ran it straight >off >the AC line (I spliced it in right after the back door switch). You could >use >a PC Case fan (seems like a CPU fan might be too small), but I didn't want >to >put a DC fan in there and have to draw more power from the DC power >supply... > > Radio Shack has a couple AC fans - Part #273-242 and #273-241. > > Drew > > Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:55:02 -0500 > From: tom mcclintock > Organization: MG Capital > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Reply-To: vectorlist > Sender: owner-vectorlist > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > > Since I just had a new back door cut for my Space Duel, I thought it >would be > an ideal time to cut air holes in the door for the HV and deflection >boards. > I additionally want to add a cooling fan and was wondering if (1) a CPU > cooling fan would provide sufficient airflow and (2) where the optimal >place > to grab power for the fan would be? > > Any suggestions are certainly appreciated. > tom > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From a-dashoe Wed Oct 6 15:36:43 1999 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with SMTP id PAA09489 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:36:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 06 Oct 1999 13:35:56 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Received: by INET-IMC-03 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <4MLMP0DN>; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:35:55 -0700 Message-ID: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D0DE02421@RED-MSG-59> From: "David Shoemaker (Comforce/RhoTech)" To: "'vectorlist '" Subject: RE: Fluke 9010 tapes Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:35:31 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN That doesn't work for the 9005 which only has a tape drive (at least mine does). It is not designed as a programming station at all, just toss the tape in and go. I would be up for a mess of tapes depending on price. David > -----Original Message----- > From: John Robertson [mailto:jrr ] > Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 8:19 AM > To: vectorlist > Subject: Re: Fluke 9010 tapes > > > I'd be interested in a few tapes, but isn't it just as easy > to store the > info over the serial port? > > John :-#)# > > At 05:47 AM 10/6/1999 -0400, you wrote: > > >If anybody is interested I can probably bug them, they're > about 10 miles > >from me.. > > > >On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, Al Kossow wrote: > > > > > > I suspect the drives were made by Braemar. I don't need any right > > > now, but here is their adr if someone wants to try to > find some blank > > > tapes. > > > > > > Braemar, Inc. > > > > > > 11481 Rupp Drive > > > Burnsville, MN 55337 > > > Phone: (612) 890-5135 > > > FAX: (612) 882-6550 > > > E-mail: Braemar > > > Contact: > > > Stanley Borman, President > > > > > > > > > John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 > Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) > http://www.flippers.com > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." > From rlboots@cedar-rapids.net Wed Oct 6 15:54:13 1999 Received: from CEDAR-RAPIDS.NET (cedar-rapids.net [206.24.60.1]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id PAA11929 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:54:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cedar-rapids.net ([208.242.241.185]) by CEDAR-RAPIDS.NET with ESMTP (IPAD 2.5/64) id 2201300 ; Wed, 06 Oct 1999 15:50:59 -0500 Message-ID: <37FBB63B.E5E5910B@cedar-rapids.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 15:51:07 -0500 From: Rodger Boots Organization: No noticable organization. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist Subject: What in the world???!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN There are a couple of monster auctions coming this month. The largest is a 4 THOUSAND game, 2 DAY auction in Greenville South Carolina. This one is interesting due to the large number of classic games being sold. A VERY compressed copy of the magazine ad is at ftp://sohodsl1.cedar-rapids.net From jrr Wed Oct 6 16:39:41 1999 Received: from server8000.net ([209.239.41.23]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id QAA19757 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:39:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cr689357-a (nvcr01m02-115.bctel.ca [207.194.20.115]) by server8000.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31219 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:38:25 -0500 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991006142206.00a49200 > X-Sender: jrr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 14:22:40 -0700 To: vectorlist From: John Robertson Subject: RE: Fluke 9010 tapes In-Reply-To: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D0DE02421@RED-MSG-59> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I have the 9010A with the optional RS232 port, I guess, that is what you are missing... John :-#)# At 01:35 PM 10/6/1999 -0700, you wrote: >That doesn't work for the 9005 which only has a tape drive (at least mine >does). > >It is not designed as a programming station at all, just toss the tape in >and go. > >I would be up for a mess of tapes depending on price. > >David > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Robertson [mailto:jrr ] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 8:19 AM > > To: vectorlist > > Subject: Re: Fluke 9010 tapes > > > > > > I'd be interested in a few tapes, but isn't it just as easy > > to store the > > info over the serial port? > > > > John :-#)# > > > > At 05:47 AM 10/6/1999 -0400, you wrote: > > > > >If anybody is interested I can probably bug them, they're > > about 10 miles > > >from me.. > > > > > >On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, Al Kossow wrote: > > > > > > > > I suspect the drives were made by Braemar. I don't need any right > > > > now, but here is their adr if someone wants to try to > > find some blank > > > > tapes. > > > > > > > > Braemar, Inc. > > > > > > > > 11481 Rupp Drive > > > > Burnsville, MN 55337 > > > > Phone: (612) 890-5135 > > > > FAX: (612) 882-6550 > > > > E-mail: Braemar > > > > Contact: > > > > Stanley Borman, President > > > > > > > > > > > > > > John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 > > Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) > > http://www.flippers.com > > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." > > John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From phkahler@Oakland.edu Wed Oct 6 17:23:27 1999 Received: from saturn4.acs.oakland.edu (saturn4.acs.oakland.edu [141.210.6.21]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id RAA03327 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:23:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from phkahler@localhost) by saturn4.acs.oakland.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA13471 for vectorlist ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:23:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199910062223.SAA13471@saturn4.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Tempest Code Project vs Tempest Hardware Programming To: vectorlist Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:23:59 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199910061740.MAA25817 > from "Josh McCormick" at Oct 6, 99 12:40:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > the EAROM, cool Pokey tricks (did you know it has a 4 bit D-A converter > for playback of digitized sounds?), that kind of thing. New area here, so > it'll take a few days to build something good. Actually the 4 bit converter was intended as a volume control. It gets multiplied by the 1-bit digital sound output. If you get the sound output to be a constant, then you do effectively have the ability to do 4 bit sampled sound using the volume control. When I was playing with my Atari800 I also realized that by combining channels to get the 16 bit divisor and higher input clock you can actually produce a tone in the hundreds of KHz. I don't know if you can get it quite onto the AM band, or if the analog portion has the bandwidth. If so, you could broadcast your samples on AM directly from the POKEY!! Just HAD to put that one out there :-) -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From mayday19@idt.net Wed Oct 6 19:17:13 1999 Received: from u2.farm.idt.net (mayday19@u2.farm.idt.net [169.132.8.11]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id TAA22071 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:17:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost by u2.farm.idt.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id UAA29072 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:17:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:17:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Anderson X-Sender: mayday19@u2.farm.idt.net To: vectorlist Subject: Re: What in the world???!! In-Reply-To: <37FBB63B.E5E5910B@cedar-rapids.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN That greenville auction will be a nightmare.. they are auctioning games in lots over 2 days, so there will be lots of stuff you'll get that you dont want.. not to mention every collector within 1000 miles will be there.. I can imagine a lot with a quantum.. 300 hands will go up for the first bid.. I was going to go but Pinball expo is the same weekend.. > There are a couple of monster auctions coming this month. > The largest is a 4 THOUSAND game, 2 DAY auction in > Greenville South Carolina. This one is interesting due to > the large number of classic games being sold. A VERY > compressed copy of the magazine ad is at > ftp://sohodsl1.cedar-rapids.net From Robot2084 Wed Oct 6 20:27:37 1999 Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id UAA29291 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:27:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Robot2084 Received: from Robot2084 by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id gMLR0wzqfY (3699) for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:26:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42c56444.252d50dd > Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:26:53 EDT Subject: Re: What in the world???!! To: vectorlist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN The ratio of collectors to "good" games will be worse than any average auction I am guessing. 4000 games..... but the latest quote is "1,000 classics." Yeah that is alot, but like Jeff said, Everyone in the world is renting a big truck and going. It'll be cool to hang out at, but I wouldn't get my hopes up too high.... -JWC From rlboots@cedar-rapids.net Thu Oct 7 05:52:50 1999 Received: from CEDAR-RAPIDS.NET (cedar-rapids.net [206.24.60.1]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id FAA06143 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 05:52:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cedar-rapids.net ([208.242.241.185]) by CEDAR-RAPIDS.NET with ESMTP (IPAD 2.5/64) id 2459500 ; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 05:50:45 -0500 Message-ID: <37FC7998.561162C5@cedar-rapids.net> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 05:44:40 -0500 From: Rodger Boots Organization: No noticable organization. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball,rec.games.video.arcade.collecting To: "vectorlist " Subject: Auctions this weekend Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN October 9th auctions: USAA at Louisville, KY (well, actually Shepherdsville) at the Paroquet Springs Conference Center. Robert Storment at Mesquite, TX at 800 Big Town Mall. From rlboots@cedar-rapids.net Thu Oct 7 05:56:55 1999 Received: from CEDAR-RAPIDS.NET (cedar-rapids.net [206.24.60.1]) by mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/mcfeeley.mc-1.26) with ESMTP id FAA06308 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 05:56:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cedar-rapids.net ([208.242.241.185]) by CEDAR-RAPIDS.NET with ESMTP (IPAD 2.5/6